Happy Atheist Forum

It is tough to be a human being right from the beginning.
And as one walks through the phases of life, one gets to many disillusions and much loneliness.
One finds that humans are cruel beasts in a dangerous environment.

Quote from: "Fininho"It is tough to be a human being right from the beginning.
And as one walks through the phases of life, one gets to many disillusions and much loneliness.
One finds that humans are cruel beasts in a dangerous environment.

When I was five, my mother took me to a local museum. One of the displays was a door with a sign on it that read "Behind this door lies the most dangerous predator to ever exist". Curiously (and apprehensively), I opened the door only to find a full-length mirror. I stared at it for awhile, and gave it much thought. It was after that I started noticing more about the cruelties of the world, and man. Funny how a simple display can have such a profound affect on a person, or a child's innocence. So much so, that I'm still thinking about it at this very moment. For some reason, your post brought back the memory of that display.

Cheers,
Holly

Quote from: "Fininho"It is tough to be a human being right from the beginning.
And as one walks through the phases of life, one gets to many disillusions and much loneliness.
One finds that humans are cruel beasts in a dangerous environment.

Ye well sure, but there's many inspirations and companionship.
I've met some kind and generous humans and I live in an idyllic environment.

Quote from: "Fininho"It is tough to be a human being right from the beginning.
And as one walks through the phases of life, one gets to many disillusions and much loneliness.
One finds that humans are cruel beasts in a dangerous environment.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Yes, I do.
An innocent child is brutally violated by an adult.
Such horrors make this existence unnecessary.

When, and for what, has existence ever been necessary at any rate?

A better question is whether it is desirable.

I've met that innocent, brutalized child; I'm certain she considers her existence desirable on most levels, as she has yet to successfully put a end to it, in spite of countless opportunities and, in her case, the comparitive difficulty in continuing to exist, as opposed to the facility with which she could simply stop.

Quote from: "Fininho"Yes, I do.
An innocent child is brutally violated by an adult.
Such horrors make this existence unnecessary.

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment entirely. Existence unnecessary? Perhaps, but it's happening regardless. I, for one, am glad to be a part of it, and for the eye-opening experiences in my life that have brought me truth beyond the sheltering "Disney World" existence people hide behind. Humans are inherently cruel. The world is a dangerous place. I agree with you on those points. There are, however few, many wonderful things in life, and in people. Innocence lost is inevitable at some point, otherwise we would all perish due to our ignorance of reality. Knowledge is key to our survival.

Cheers,
Holly

I think to say that life is nothing but disappointment is to overlook all the good and beautiful things in life that the majority of people experience more than they do the bad things. It's all about perspective; if you look for bad all you'll see is bad.

A list of things in life which have not underwhelmed me:
- Bacon: right off the bat, you've got an incredibly rich, smokey, fatty, delicious food which can be eaten right as soon as you wake up instead of having to wait for lunch or dinner. It goes with anything from eggs to tomatoes to more bacon. Bacon is absolutely wonderful.
- Playing music: learning to play an instrument can be very rewarding. You can explore what it is to express yourself and create beautiful art which not only enriches your life but those who listen. And if you're good enough, you can make money which can be used to procure bacon.
- Sex: better than bacon. Sex, especially with someone you truly care about, is just about the best thing ever. It's a slow build to release and is extremely pleasurable.
- Adventure: Have you ever gone skydiving? Or on safari? Or on an archeological dig on which you eventually end up fighting Nazis? Life provides you the opportunity to move outside of your comfort zone and experience the exhilaration of the mysteries and fun the world has to offer. I went whitewater rafting with some friends last year and I had an absolute blast. It was exciting, dangerous, challenging, and rewarding.
- Curiosity: I don't know how scientific you are, but most people are born curious and satiating that curiosity with knowledge is part of what makes life great. Do you know how DNA works? Do you understand the General Theory of Relativity? Do you know what oncogenes are? The universe is wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross, but it's not for the timid. Your curiosity is the key to accessing everything.
-Changing the world for the better: This is a big one. Did you know the world isn't a perfect place? Yeah, me too. Did you also know that you can change some things which are imperfect? There are people working every minute of every day to make the world a better place, and they need your help. What could be more fulfilling than leaving the next generation a world better than the one you inherited.
- Bacon: right off the bat, you've got an incredibly rich, smokey, fatty, delicious food which can be eaten right as soon as you wake up instead of having to wait for lunch or dinner. It goes with anything from eggs to tomatoes to more bacon. Bacon is absolutely wonderful.

Quote from: "Will"Bacon is absolutely wonderful.

And the term scientific method can be interchanged with the Baconian method, the universe is truly vast, with so many mysterious connections.

The pleasures of eating bacon at breakfast, while the news report of a little child that has been brutally violated by an adult - a crime only human BEASTS are capable of.
A man shoots his three children, his wife and himself, inflicting immense pain and terrible hurt on his family.
Children abandoning their old folks to poverty and loneliness.
And much more ugly stuff in this disappointing life  ...
... and bacon has too much fat and salt!...

Quote from: "Fininho"The pleasures of eating bacon at breakfast, while the news report of a little child that has been brutally violated by an adult - a crime only human beats are capable of.
A man shoots his three children, his wife and himself, inflicting immense pain and terrible hurt on his family.
Children abandoning their old folks to poverty and loneliness.
And much more ugly stuff in this disappointing life  ...
... and bacon has too much fat and salt!...

I would suggest to stop watching the news and to volunteer for a program that helps abused children...you know, make a difference instead of complaining and worrying

No. I would rather go after this human BEAST and kill him on the spot!!
On the spot!!!
All child rapists should be DESTROYED! No mercy, NEVER!!!
Life turns terribly hurtful for such innocent victims.
Some will one day put an end to it to escape the hurt.
What can you do to help, really?
Life: a horrible disappointment!
Better that you never came ... better.

Quote from: "Fininho"No. I would rather go after this human BEAST and kill him on the spot!!
On the spot!!!
All child rapists should be DESTROYED! No mercy, NEVER!!!
Life turns terribly hurtful for such innocent victims.
Some will one day put an end to it to escape the hurt.
What can you do to help, really?
Life: a horrible disappointment!
Better that you never came ... better.

You sound like a person who is coming from a place of deep emotional pain and anger. It is perfectly reasonable to feel that child rapists should be destroyed. It is quite another thing to act on these feelings. You make a reference to victims putting an end to it. I would point out that many victims get the help and support they need to not only survive, but lead happy, productive, successful lives. "What can you do to help, really?" Well, probably nothing, really. If you are feeling so much pain, maybe you should talk about it with someone who can help you. I sincerely wish you the best, and hope I didn't offend you. There is a lot of cruelty in the world, but as others have pointed out, there are many pleasantries as well.

Take care,
Holly

Quote from: "Fininho"The pleasures of eating bacon at breakfast, while the news report of a little child that has been brutally violated by an adult - a crime only human BEASTS are capable of.
A man shoots his three children, his wife and himself, inflicting immense pain and terrible hurt on his family.
Children abandoning their old folks to poverty and loneliness.
And much more ugly stuff in this disappointing life  ...
... and bacon has too much fat and salt!...

The bacon thing was clearly me being a bit silly. For every murder, rape, and such, there are also wonders. You can't just discount the beautiful parts of life without becoming dishonest. This man (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1259627/Man-golden-arm-James-Harrison-saves-2million-babies-half-century-donating-rare-blood.html) has saved over 2,000,000 babies in 56 years by donating his rare blood every week, donating over 1,000 times in his life. This toddler (http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/08/22/california.toddler.heroine/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+rss/cnn_topstories+(RSS:+Top+Stories)&utm_content=Google+Reader) walked to the closest fire station to get medical attention for her father. Orphan otter rescues. (http://montereybayaquarium.typepad.com/sea_notes/2010/02/baby-otter-on-board.html) Secret millionaire leaves a fortune to pay for college scholarships (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-03-05/news/ct-met-lake-forest-donation-0304-20100304_1_donates-friend-lake-county). There are thousands of stories like this every day, of wonderful people doing good things and making the world a better place.

And bacon is fine in moderation.

Yes, Will.
I understand your point.
Nevertheless, there are millions right now going without "bacon", or even a packet of popcorn.
A child is born blind; a mother dies giving birth to her fourth baby.
A man built a house, and a storm destroyed it.

Two young friends went to fight a war they did not start.
One lost both legs on a landmine; the other was blinded in an explosion.
Life for both: better they never came.

The two friends might disagree with you. You think there aren't amputees or blind  people who are happy or value their life?

You whine a lot.

Stop it, or I'll have to use the 'ignore' feature.

And get a new avatar.

Quote from: "Fininho"Yes, Will.
I understand your point.
Nevertheless, there are millions right now going without "bacon", or even a packet of popcorn.
A child is born blind; a mother dies giving birth to her fourth baby.
A man built a house, and a storm destroyed it.

Then I would suggest you go out and do something about it. Go out and help just one of those people. Or help as many as you can. Then maybe you'll be productive and get something useful out of your life.

Whining about things on a message board never truly helped anyone.

People help each other all the time, but life keeps going to the dogs for many, many others.
We cross with hungry children on the street every day. What do we do?
Poverty is endemic across the world.
What do you do to alleviate this social evil?
Better that life never started for them.

I might be with Ellie on this one. Ignore might be in order. This person clearly isn't looking for any type of actual discussion it seems.

Take racial hatred.
Is it not reason enough to consider life a great regret for many?

Gotta be more to life than just being here too point out what's wrong with the world.

I actually really appreciate your spectacularly awful posts Fininho because I can veer towards the negative myself at times, and seeing such a blatantly negative perspective pushes me back towards what's really important and beautiful in life.

Life will be here with it's beauty and suffering as long as it's possible to be here, might as well find the good in it instead of picking out the small very nasty bits and complaining.

I'm with Will on the bacon thing.  I'd like to add charcoal grilled ribeyes to that list.  And laughter.  Laughing is awesome.  So are plants.  Nearly all forms of plant life are perfectly beautiful and innocent.  They provide life from light and kill nothing.  Trees are quiet, spectacular powerhouses.  Sight is another amazing feature of human life.  The visible spectrum and variety of forms to be enjoyed is amazing.  Human creativity is another.  Art, music, engineering.  These things are good.

So there is bad.  Bad things can be combatted.  Life succeeds, grows and evolves.  The evolutionary process has some ugliness and waste, it can go either direction towards pleasant or unpleasant in the human eye, but we have the ability to push for the positive, do good things, create, love and have good lives.

Quote from: "Ihateyoumike"I might be with Ellie on this one. Ignore might be in order. This person clearly isn't looking for any type of actual discussion it seems.

I'm in agreement for sure. I have offered to lend an ear in PM. This person clearly needs professional help. Is there any way to shut this thread down? I hate to turn my back on someone in need, but he isn't here for any productive reason. Sorry. Just my opinion.

Holly

Quote from: "Ihateyoumike"I might be with Ellie on this one. Ignore might be in order. This person clearly isn't looking for any type of actual discussion it seems.

He made that clear in his last thread (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6157).

Troll alert!

He's playing with your heads.

Fininho, if all you are going to do is preach that "life is a great disappointment" then you're going to find yourself banned right along with all the religious fundies who come here just to preach.  So, it's your choice...i really don't care if you are being sincere or not; if you were harmed you need to find a way to overcome, if you are just pissed you need to get over it and if you are trolling you are one of life's disappointments.

Quote from: "Ambrose Bierce"YEAR, n. A period of three hundred and sixty-five disappointments.

What to do?  Carry on, and make the best of it.  Or not.

Carry on? Fine.
I knew a young guy who had some disenfranchising with his girlfriend.
Result: he went to the flat's balcony, and shot himself in the mouth.
I heard a loud bang followed by some heavy thing drop on the ground.
He was still alive when the paramedics arrived, but only for the next few minutes.
Life is not a disappointment in MANY similar cases?
Don't you think there is some disconnectivity in the social fabric we applaud?

Quote from: "Fininho"Don't you think there is some disconnectivity in the social fabric we applaud?

What's this "we" shit, Ke-mo sah-bee?  I deplore a great deal in the current social fabric, and applaud damn little.

You will note, I included the "or not" option.  The young man chose that, but honestly, I consider it quite selfish and only acceptable for those who do it to escape otherwise inescapable physical suffering; those who face what few days might remain filled with agony.  I sympathize with the young man, having been in a similar state of mind for the exact same reason, but consider his choice cowardly and unwarranted.  One can make an effort to improve the world, even if only minimally, and try to have a decent time while doing so, or one can embrace despair and maunder and moan, then step off the merry-go-round. Good people who succumb to despair are actually helping the cause of evil in this world. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." --Edmund Burke

Maybe you're going through a period of clinical depression, Fininho.  I strongly advise you to get some help, if you think that might be the case.  We can't afford to lose too many good people, so try to stick around and help out.

Thanks for the advice.
I live in a country - South Africa - where one is surrounded by much social evil, in many forms.
Suicide is common in this land [I suppose like in any other one, except some very few ones].
Many suicides are due to the economical situation - so much promises in the past that were untrue.
Etc.

South Africa has been changing, though.  Changes take time.  The United States (I'm American)  took time to go from slavery to segregation to a more inclusive society where some racism still exists but is no longer really acceptable.  If I ignore the progress, I could view my country's history as very depressing.

There are still problems where we all live.  But the problems can be combatted.  And progress has been made in your country to end the problems.  

The economic ills in the world seem to be everywhere.  I think here in the U.S. many people grew up with the idea that they would always be more prosperous than their parents.  Go to college, work and everything will be fine.  But it seems that many of us who did this aren't finding the types of jobs we hoped our education would bring.  And it's kind of a nasty surprise.

But the world has been through economic depressions before.  It's been through slavery, apartheid, the Holocaust, Stalinism.  We survived and learned.  We are always learning, making mistakes when we stop paying attention.  But even as resources dwindle and become scarce, we still have the knowledge we gained.  The value of this is immeasurable.  Life doesn't have to follow the bell curve back down into an unethical situation as the world economy falters because we have enough knowledge to come up with better solutions and ways of living.  We remember.

We have a lot of challenges and need clear heads to tackle them.  Without scientific minds, smallpox would never have been eradicated.  There is one virus that we beat.  We have vaccines for so many horrible diseases that killed and disfigured people in the past.  People have stood up against unfairness, violence and dictatorships.  The world is a better place for humanity than it used to be and we still have the ability to make it better.

Life really can be damn disappointing at times.  At times, it freaking hurts, quite honestly. Nothing you are pointing out here is untrue, but it isn't the whole story.