I think we can keep the format of this debate pretty loose and open so long as every factual claim and event is supported by valid sources.
Penfold will be arguing that religion can be "a powerful force for good," and I shall play the role of antagonist arguing that even the "good" that ostensibly comes from religion more often than not comes at a harmful price. Penfold is more than welcome to be first up to bat, so he can choose what he feels to be the strongest examples to work with, whenever ready.
Quote from: "Sophus"I think we can keep the format of this debate pretty loose and open so long as every factual claim and event is supported by valid sources.
Penfold will be arguing that religion can be "a powerful force for good," and I shall play the role of antagonist arguing that even the "good" that ostensibly comes from religion more often than not comes at a harmful price. Penfold is more than welcome to be first up to bat, so he can choose what he feels to be the strongest examples to work with, whenever ready.
This is a difficult subject to argue. The problem is width, the subject could go so many ways. I really don't want this to get stuck in some awful counter-factual miasma; to my mind questions like "would the civil rights movement have happened as soon as it did without the organization of black churches?" are borderline unanswerable. So I will try and limit my reliance on historical claims of the form: "such and such was a good thing". What I want to do is look instead at two things, the human condition and two inherent characteristics of religion:
These characteristics are, Faith and Structure. I will start with a brief word on each.
Faith:
We all have beliefs, and this is not what I mean here by faith. Faith, when talking of religion, is a belief in a metaphysical order to the cosmos. Typically faith manifests as irrational acts, often dangerous and hateful, othertimes sublime. Faith excused Charlemagne's butchering of thousand of Saxon prisoners; it also inspired the art of Johannes Vemeer. What is really important to understand about faith is its extraordinary power to motivate regardless of rational concerns.
Structure:
In terms of structure religions tend to be hierarchical, however they are susceptible to context. While some dark corners of the world still harbor dark theocracies, and religious conflict, in many places religion has become well integrated into societies. There is a mosque and a church within a mile of my door; we all buy food from the same grocers and vote in the same elections. We saw in the 1970s proto-democratic interpretations of Catholicism in Latin America; models for the kind of local democracy now springing up all over the region. Most important we see religious groups take part in secular democracies, form the US to the UK, to Lebanon, to Germany, and
Insha'Allah soon in Egypt. What is a constant is that religions involve social structure, they are a type of human self-organization, however their structure is mutable. Most importantly even the most autocratic sounding groups, like Hezbollah, can be detoxified by strong secular democracies.
None of this may sound like a particularly strong case for religion being a powerful force for good. However I'm a realist and incrementalist. I do not think we can separate this debate from the reality we live with. First and foremost I think it is important to understand humans. The first myth to debunk is that we are rational animals. Rather we are animals capable of rationality, however we are also emotive animals. We have large potent areas of our neurological makeup which doom us to behaving irrationally. This forum actually gives us ample evidence for this. Most, but by no means all, theists (and more than a few of us atheists) become incredibly angry when allegedly holding rational discussions. The fact is anger is more potent than reason; when you call someone an idiot they do not respond with the rational part of the brain, but the amygdala takes over within seconds changing the biochemistry of your body.
To my mind it is hopelessly naive, and totally country to evidence, to suggest that we can control this part of people's psyche rationally. Primarily we cannot control the incarnation of faith. Whether that will always be the case I do not know, but as things stand it is true. What religion does for us, is gives structure to this chaotic part of ourselves. That this is the case is evidenced by the fact that religions are the oldest extant forms of human self organisation; the Catholic church pre-dates feudalism, Shiva rituals in Hinduism stretch into pre-history etc... Religion survives for a reason. It is here that religion can be a powerful force for good. It provides structure to the profound motivator of faith.
If then religion can harness faith to action then it can do so for good.