Happy Atheist Forum

Every year, at this time, it gets real stressful for me. The holidays are when everyone in my family is supposed to get together. My entire family is Christian, except me. My grandmother, who is in her late 80s, called me last night. She had heard that I had not been to church in a very long time with the rest of my family. She is very Christian and all she talks about is God and how she is going to heaven soon. I didn't know what to say. I couldn't lie to her since it was my mother who told her that I was not going to church. We discussed religion and now she knows that I am not a Christian. She basically told me how disappointed she was in me and that she could never respect my decision to not be a Christian. She was also very concerned that I was leading my daughter down the same path to the devil. She was very concerned that I would go to hell and not join her in heaven. Now, I'm sure that she will spread this "embarrassing" fact about me to my entire family and they will vilify me.

My wife is Christian too. She has mentioned to me that she doesn't tell anyone else about me being an atheist because "it's embarrassing". My wife and I usually don't discuss religion. But she also told me that if I was an atheist when we first met then we wouldn't be together today. This is so depressing and stressful sometimes to maintain my atheism. It's seems almost easier to just give in, be quite, and pretend to be a Christian just to keep family relationships from being destroyed. Through my studies, I have become completely convinced that what I believe in is right but the pressure from my own family is a strain sometimes. It seems like the best way to maintain atheism is to live alone. I'm just feeling really down right now about how religion can affect family relationships like this. How is the family life of all the atheists here? Does anyone else here ever have family issues like this?

I'm only fifteen, so my experience is very limited and from a child's perspective, but here's what I got:

I don't worry too much about "maintaining" my atheism.  It's not really like some sort of exercise, or avoiding a vice or anything like that.  It's just something I believe.  I don't think you'll have a problem staying atheist around your Christian family, even if you were to begin to act as if you were Christian.  Myself, I have not yet told my family, so I still attend church services and go to a Christian school, etc., and sometimes I do feel pressure to believe in God, except that's not really the right way to put it.  I feel sometimes (for example, when others are praying or singing worship songs) that I ought to join in and it would be very easy for me to begin talking to "God" again.  However, even if I did this, I would still know that he didn't exist.  I'd think afterwards: "What were you thinking?", and even while I was doing it my knowledge would poke its head in.  You might be different, but it's difficult to sway me from a position using emotion when I've already established a conclusion using reason.

Because I haven't yet told anyone, things are largely the same as they were before except that I'm more uncomfortable than I was before in a lot of situations.  I avoid talking about theology whenever possible (a little bit frustrating because I love it) because I don't like lying about my beliefs.  I get frustrated with my mom when she goes on about what Christ would do or how we're supposed to act as Christians.  My grandparents are all Christians, and I love them a lot.  They sometimes talk about their beliefs and that's especially hard because I know how sad they'd be if they knew.  Most of the difference (family-wise) for me is in my head.

The only solution I can think of is to avoid religious discussion as much as possible, but that's not really much of a solution.  I fear I'm just stating the obvious, but civility and understanding are very helpful when discussions about religion happen.  Don't be phased, I guess?

Quote from: "'Matt'"I'm only fifteen, so my experience is very limited and from a child's perspective, but here's what I got:

I don't worry too much about "maintaining" my atheism.  It's not really like some sort of exercise, or avoiding a vice or anything like that.  It's just something I believe.  I don't think you'll have a problem staying atheist around your Christian family, even if you were to begin to act as if you were Christian.  Myself, I have not yet told my family, so I still attend church services and go to a Christian school, etc., and sometimes I do feel pressure to believe in God, except that's not really the right way to put it.  I feel sometimes (for example, when others are praying or singing worship songs) that I ought to join in and it would be very easy for me to begin talking to "God" again.  However, even if I did this, I would still know that he didn't exist.  I'd think afterwards: "What were you thinking?", and even while I was doing it my knowledge would poke its head in.  You might be different, but it's difficult to sway me from a position using emotion when I've already established a conclusion using reason.

I agree on the part about not having to maintain atheism, and I feel the same way a lot of times -- the feeling that I should just give in and believe in God. However, once the logical portion of my brain kicks in again, I realize that it would be stupid to do so.

I never feel pressure to "talk to God", though, mainly because even when I was a Christian I couldn't honestly say my prayers were actually prayers. I've never once felt like any sort of supernatural being was listening to my thoughts or words; I've never had any sort of "God experience"; I've never once felt like God was "touching my heart" or planting an idea in my head. In short, I was devoid of all the subjective personal experience Christians claim to have. This is probably the biggest reason I gradually shifted into atheism.

QuoteBecause I haven't yet told anyone, things are largely the same as they were before except that I'm more uncomfortable than I was before in a lot of situations.  I avoid talking about theology whenever possible (a little bit frustrating because I love it) because I don't like lying about my beliefs.  I get frustrated with my mom when she goes on about what Christ would do or how we're supposed to act as Christians.  My grandparents are all Christians, and I love them a lot.  They sometimes talk about their beliefs and that's especially hard because I know how sad they'd be if they knew.  Most of the difference (family-wise) for me is in my head.

The only solution I can think of is to avoid religious discussion as much as possible, but that's not really much of a solution.  I fear I'm just stating the obvious, but civility and understanding are very helpful when discussions about religion happen.  Don't be phased, I guess?

(To original poster and Matt:) My opinion is that it's best to just get it over with. Your family is going to find out sooner or later, so it's best that you reveal your non-belief at a time and place of your choosing, where you can politely discuss why you chose to give up religion and how you're still the same person. I think it would be best to avoid arguing about whether God exists or not, though it's probably inevitable.

My parents know I'm an atheist, and for the most part, nothing has changed that much, though they occasionally try to sway me. But this is just my family. I certainly can't speak for anyone else's.

It's just frustrating. It feels like it's either give in and pretend that I am a Christian or loose everyone around me. I'm just torn on what to do. I resent religion for dividing people like this. I believe that I will try and weather this storm and hope that they will accept my atheism after a period of time has gone by. It's not going to be easy though. It's got me down knowing that my own family looks down on me like that.

Quote from: "lundberg500"It's just frustrating. It feels like it's either give in and pretend that I am a Christian or loose everyone around me. I'm just torn on what to do. I resent religion for dividing people like this. I believe that I will try and weather this storm and hope that they will accept my atheism after a period of time has gone by. It's not going to be easy though. It's got me down knowing that my own family looks down on me like that.

I'm not going to pretend that I can empathize with you, because I most likely can't, but I can at least sympathize. Good luck. Remember to show them that you're still you -- you're the same human being with the same personality, and a lack of belief in God hasn't made you into a demon or demoralized you or anything like that. Hopefully, you'll be the one to show them that we atheists aren't that bad after all.

Quote from: "lundberg500"Every year, at this time, it gets real stressful for me. The holidays are when everyone in my family is supposed to get together. My entire family is Christian, except me. My grandmother, who is in her late 80s, called me last night. She had heard that I had not been to church in a very long time with the rest of my family. She is very Christian and all she talks about is God and how she is going to heaven soon. I didn't know what to say. I couldn't lie to her since it was my mother who told her that I was not going to church. We discussed religion and now she knows that I am not a Christian. She basically told me how disappointed she was in me and that she could never respect my decision to not be a Christian. She was also very concerned that I was leading my daughter down the same path to the devil. She was very concerned that I would go to hell and not join her in heaven. Now, I'm sure that she will spread this "embarrassing" fact about me to my entire family and they will vilify me.

My wife is Christian too. She has mentioned to me that she doesn't tell anyone else about me being an atheist because "it's embarrassing". My wife and I usually don't discuss religion. But she also told me that if I was an atheist when we first met then we wouldn't be together today. This is so depressing and stressful sometimes to maintain my atheism. It's seems almost easier to just give in, be quite, and pretend to be a Christian just to keep family relationships from being destroyed. Through my studies, I have become completely convinced that what I believe in is right but the pressure from my own family is a strain sometimes. It seems like the best way to maintain atheism is to live alone. I'm just feeling really down right now about how religion can affect family relationships like this. How is the family life of all the atheists here? Does anyone else here ever have family issues like this?

I'm very much in the same boat as you - large family, all Christian, including my wife. When I explained to her a few months ago about how I was no longer a believer, we had a rough time for a while. Things are okay now, and we don't discuss religion much - even on Sundays when I take my boys out to meet their grandparents to go to Sunday school. Similar to how your wife said that she wouldn't have married you, my wife informed me that she had no interest in having any more kids with me - specifically because of my atheism. Right now, I haven't told anyone else in my family - and when asked to say a prayer or blessing over a family meal, I just defer to someone else. There are other problems, and those problems are kind of hiding under the surface right now - the issues I'm trying to sort out include:

1. My oldest son (5 next month) is big into dinosaurs lately, and I want to show him all sorts of books I've got, but don't know how to go about talking about the age of dinosaurs, fossils and whatnot when his mom/grandparents might contradict me later with their own thoughts.
2. I'm quite interested in scientific developments, and I love to share this stuff with friends - except when I tell my wife about some cool astrophysics video or something I learned about the size of the universe, she simply says "You just accept whatever they say for truth, don't you?" How do I respond to that?
3. When my kids are old enough to comprehend life and religion for themselves, I know that if they talk to me and come away atheist my wife (as well as the rest of the family) will be furious. Is it best to just leave my kids to their own intellects or try to explain why I don't share everyone else's beliefs?

Confrontational would probably be the last adjective I'd use to describe myself - I am a very passive person, and am always refraining from possibly upsetting someone, so this is a tricky spot for me to be in.

Tomorrow morning I'm going to share breakfast with my mother and share the 'news' with her - that should be interesting. I'm completely dreading it, but I know that it is necessary, if for no other reason than to get them to stop asking me to tag along for church. I'm worried about the upcoming holidays as well, especially after tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes.

It's tough, for sure - I don't know how much help I can give, but at least I can sympathize with you.

QuoteI'm very much in the same boat as you - large family, all Christian, including my wife. When I explained to her a few months ago about how I was no longer a believer, we had a rough time for a while. Things are okay now, and we don't discuss religion much - even on Sundays when I take my boys out to meet their grandparents to go to Sunday school. Similar to how your wife said that she wouldn't have married you, my wife informed me that she had no interest in having any more kids with me - specifically because of my atheism. Right now, I haven't told anyone else in my family - and when asked to say a prayer or blessing over a family meal, I just defer to someone else. There are other problems, and those problems are kind of hiding under the surface right now - the issues I'm trying to sort out include:

1. My oldest son (5 next month) is big into dinosaurs lately, and I want to show him all sorts of books I've got, but don't know how to go about talking about the age of dinosaurs, fossils and whatnot when his mom/grandparents might contradict me later with their own thoughts.

I say teach him all of the scientific facts about dinosaurs -- including the more "controversial" ones among religious fundamentalists. If he later comes to you saying that mommy told him humans lived at the same time as the dinosaurs and whatnot, tell him that everything you told him is based on hard, solid evidence and explain to him some of the evidence (this might be a bit tricky since he's so young).

Quote2. I'm quite interested in scientific developments, and I love to share this stuff with friends - except when I tell my wife about some cool astrophysics video or something I learned about the size of the universe, she simply says "You just accept whatever they say for truth, don't you?" How do I respond to that?

If you're feeling snarky, you could say something more or less to the effect of "Saying that only proves that religious belief isn't on the same playing field as scientific belief because of your attempts to bring science down to the same level as religion."

Quote3. When my kids are old enough to comprehend life and religion for themselves, I know that if they talk to me and come away atheist my wife (as well as the rest of the family) will be furious. Is it best to just leave my kids to their own intellects or try to explain why I don't share everyone else's beliefs?

I say go for the latter. Make sure to tell them the facts, not tell them what to believe, and to be fair and balanced. If your family becomes enraged at you, let them -- better that your children are smart than your family happy with you.

QuoteConfrontational would probably be the last adjective I'd use to describe myself - I am a very passive person, and am always refraining from possibly upsetting someone, so this is a tricky spot for me to be in.

I can empathize with you here, and it's good that you don't want to argue with them all the time, but sometimes you have to be assertive -- just make sure it's the right time to be assertive.

QuoteTomorrow morning I'm going to share breakfast with my mother and share the 'news' with her - that should be interesting. I'm completely dreading it, but I know that it is necessary, if for no other reason than to get them to stop asking me to tag along for church. I'm worried about the upcoming holidays as well, especially after tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes.

It's tough, for sure - I don't know how much help I can give, but at least I can sympathize with you.

That does sound interesting, and I'm looking forward to your recollection of events. I would probably avoid the use of the word "atheist", as it has an immediate negative connotation in many a believer's mind.

All good points, thanks for the reply.

I'm starting to realize that I need to be more assertive in want I want my life to be (I mean, it is my life and all) but it's gonna take some effort.

After the experience with telling my wife, where I said "Hey, I think I'm an atheist now" and she immediately started crying, I realized it's not the best term to use. I'm trying to figure out what the... gentlest way to word it would be. I don't want to say I'm 'questioning my beliefs' because that would imply I need help, which my family would quickly jump to provide, and I would then have to turn down.

Any ideas?

The simplest way to put it, in my opinion, is to say "I don't believe in God". It's saying the exact same thing as saying you're an atheist, without all the negative connotation associated with the word.

Or you could say that you're a secular humanist, which is probably the best way to put it. I'm just assuming you're a secular humanist, of course (most atheists are).

I dunno about using the term secular humanist.  It has a very heretical connotation in the Christian community that I'm in.  Maybe mine's more nuts than most or I've picked up the wrong vibe, though.

Quote from: "'Matt'"I dunno about using the term secular humanist.  It has a very heretical connotation in the Christian community that I'm in.  Maybe mine's more nuts than most or I've picked up the wrong vibe, though.

Really? I guess I don't hang around enough crazy Christians.

I'm not really sure what term you should use to convey your disbelief. Whichever way you say "I don't believe in God", your family will still get upset. Maybe you could say you're a skeptic -- your family will inevitably try to show you "proof" that God really exists if you use that word, of course, but they will anyway you say it.

Croaker,

Thank you so much for posting. It sounds like we are going through very similar issues. One of the things that hurt was my wife informing me of how embarrassed she is in me and how we would not even be together today if I had been an atheist back when we first met. That means I would have no daughter all because of religious beliefs. What SHOULD be embarrassing is that she, and so many other Christians, believe in a devil, and angles, a fantasy place where you go to when you die, a burning hell for non believers, a god man that heals possessed people, raises the dead, and walked on water. THAT should be embarrassing.  

I think I was born way too soon. I wish I was born maybe around the year 3,000. Maybe by then it will be a lot more acceptable to be an atheist. By the way, I would not use the word "atheist". Christians have becomes accustomed to equating that word with aligning yourself with the devil. You have to remember that the evil devil is very real to Christians. I would use "non theist" or "free thinker".

Quoteshe simply says "You just accept whatever they say for truth, don't you?" How do I respond to that?

Look at what you are accepting as truth and what Christians accept as truth. They are at totally opposite ends of the spectrum. What you are accepting as truth comes from unbiased scientific research. This same information has been shared and commonly accepted in so many fields of science for many, many years. This knowledge is congruent with logic, reason, and common sense. It does not appeal to the supernatural and then demand that you use blind faith to accept it.

Now look what Christians accept as the truth:

1. spirits, angels, and demons
2. heaven and hell
3. a god man who can heal the sick, cure the deaf and blind, raise the dead, cast out demons, walk on water
4. this same god man that died, resurrected, and floated up to heaven
5. that the world is only 6,000 years old despite of scientific evidence staring them in face proving otherwise

And the list, of course, goes on and on. This is how credulous Christians can be. They refute what makes perfect sense. They refute that which is very logical and reasonable. Then they fully accept without ever questioning the validity the things that were taught to them by their parents and the church. It just amazes me.

Again, thanks Croaker for posting.

I'm really sorry you're having to go through all that with your family. Families should be the one group of people you  can count on to be there for you and give you comfort and try to make your life better and happier. I know of too many instances where it's quite the opposite. I can sort of empathize, to a degree, but I'm not married anymore, and when I was she was fine with it. I also have no children, but if I had, I'd be really scared for them, for fear that if my family knew of my non-belief, they would aggressively indocrtinate them or try to 'protect' them from my influence.

My way of dealing with my family's problems with my atheism, so far, is not dealing with my family's problems with my atheism. I don't talk about it, except with my brother. I don't want to go to church; I don't like going to church; I have a different perspective on that; etc. Sure, they probably know, but by not talking about it, I maintain a certain amount of plausible deniability, which seems to be just enough to keep them from prying into it. Anyway, I'll have bigger issues with them soon enough because I'm also trans and a lesbian. Can't hide either of those from them forever.