Happy Atheist Forum

So, some people are atheist right? Now, does it feel natural to believe in no God? Do you feel at peace when you go to sleep at night? Do you feel like your living a fulfilled life? Do you feel like your on the right path in life?

I got bored so i came here to talk with some atheists  

do try and be honest, otherwise it defeats the purpose of the exercise.

Quote from: "dionysiou"So, some people are atheist right? Now, does it feel natural to believe in nothing? Do you feel at peace when you go to sleep at night? Do you feel like your living a fulfilled life? Do you feel like your on the right path in life?

I got bored so i came here to talk with some atheists  

do try and be honest, otherwise it defeats the purpose of the exercise.

First off, just because you're an atheist does not mean you don't have a belief in something. Moreover, I'd rather put my trust in things backed up by evidence, rather than believe in something because someone else simply told me to believe it.
 You seem to have a misconception about 'atheism', because there are many atheists who have meaning in their lives. -__-

Quote from: "Cite134"

Quote from: "dionysiou"So, some people are atheist right? Now, does it feel natural to believe in nothing? Do you feel at peace when you go to sleep at night? Do you feel like your living a fulfilled life? Do you feel like your on the right path in life?

I got bored so i came here to talk with some atheists  

do try and be honest, otherwise it defeats the purpose of the exercise.

First off, just because you're an atheist does not mean you don't have a belief in something. Moreover, I'd rather put my trust in things backed up by evidence, rather than believe in something because someone else simply told me to believe it.
 You seem to have a misconception about 'atheism', because there are many atheists who have meaning in their lives. -__-

Not at all, i never said that atheists dont have meaning in their lives, and you didnt really answer my questions. True that you dont want to live off somebody elses word, unless your a mindless drone.

Quote from: "dionysiou"

Quote from: "Cite134"

Quote from: "dionysiou"So, some people are atheist right? Now, does it feel natural to believe in nothing? Do you feel at peace when you go to sleep at night? Do you feel like your living a fulfilled life? Do you feel like your on the right path in life?

I got bored so i came here to talk with some atheists  

do try and be honest, otherwise it defeats the purpose of the exercise.

First off, just because you're an atheist does not mean you don't have a belief in something. Moreover, I'd rather put my trust in things backed up by evidence, rather than believe in something because someone else simply told me to believe it.
 You seem to have a misconception about 'atheism', because there are many atheists who have meaning in their lives. -__-

Not at all, i never said that atheists dont have meaning in their lives, and you didnt really answer my questions. True that you dont want to live off somebody elses word, unless your a mindless drone.

The irony. -__-.

You asked is it natural to believe in nothing. I responded to that question. The other questions ultimately depend on the individual, so they are vague in nature.
Do you not think that atheists have no fulfillment in their lives? Otherwise, why would you pose such questions?

Oh, I believe in a few things. Like, for instance, that the roads will be slippery next week. Atheist does not equal to believing in nothing. Just to not believing in ancient (And some modern, but still equally crazy) superstitions.

For me to answer "Do you feel 'at peace'...", you would have to define that expression. When I go to bed, I can be content if I had a good day or discontent if I had a stressful one, in which I did not accomplish my set goals, if that's what you mean.

Is my life fulfilled? Yes, most certainly. There could be a bit more in it, but on Maslov's pyramid of needs, there are none I have not met at all. So every item or event of those "a bit more" is purely a luxury problem. (A problem someone worse off would usually not even consider as such)

Am I on gthe right path? For now, yes. If I get tired of it, I'll change it... Maybe get a family or go be a paramedic or something.

What you seem to be asking by implication is, and that is very christian of you, whether or not we atheists feel that god-sized hole in our "souls". I, for one, do not. Don't have a hole. Don't have a soul. Am fine, thanks.

ill make sure to be more clear, when i say nothing, i mean in the way of God. The very reason for my questioning is i do not know wether or not you have a "hole" inside you.

Quote from: "dionysiou"So, some people are atheist right? Now, does it feel natural to believe in nothing?

I wouldn't say I believe in nothing, chocolate is good.

Quote from: "dionysiou"Do you feel at peace when you go to sleep at night?

I think so, the hours before exhaustion darkens my consciousness, spent in desperate fear contemplating eternal oblivion are another matter.

Quote from: "dionysiou"Do you feel like your on the right path in life?

Ye, the others are pretend.

Quote from: "dionysiou"I got bored so i came here to talk with some atheists :bananacolor:

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"

Quote from: dionysiouSo, some people are atheist right? Now, does it feel natural to believe in nothing?

I wouldn't say I believe in nothing, chocolate is good.

Quote from: dionysiouDo you feel at peace when you go to sleep at night?

I think so, the hours before exhaustion darkens my consciousness, spent in desperate fear contemplating eternal oblivion are another matter.

Quote from: dionysiouDo you feel like your on the right path in life?

Ye, the others are pretend.

Quote from: dionysiouI got bored so i came here to talk with some atheists :bananacolor:

well your lively!

Quote from: "dionysiou"ill make sure to be more clear, when i say nothing, i mean in the way of God. The very reason for my questioning is i do not know wether or not you have a "hole" inside you.

When there is enough evidence that supports the existence of such a being, I will consider it.

Quote from: "dionysiou"So, some people are atheist right?

At an atheist forum? Probably more than some.  :P

QuoteDo you feel like your living a fulfilled life? Do you feel like your on the right path in life?

I'd say yes to both. This is the happy atheist forum after all.  

Quote from: "dionysiou"So, some people are atheist right? Now, does it feel natural to believe in no God? Do you feel at peace when you go to sleep at night? Do you feel like your living a fulfilled life? Do you feel like your on the right path in life?

I got bored so i came here to talk with some atheists :)

I sleep incredibly well. It usually takes me less than five minutes to doze off and i get full, uninterrupted sleep until my alarm goes off. I never have problems getting out of bed unless i'm hung over.

I'm living a fulfilled life but i could probably do better. I guess you could say i'm happy with what I have so don't feel the need to excel myself. I'm certainly no Anthony Robbins. I don't possess that kind of energy. I drink too much though.

I definitely feel I'm on the right path in life because I'm happy. That, for me at least, is a sign that I'm doing something right.

Are you on the right path? Do you feel a belief in god gives you something more out of life? Do you attribute every personal achievement to god or are you able to take personal responsibility for them?

some great responses!

Now as far as i know, yes i am on the right path. Also it should be said that i chose this path, i have a mind as everybody else, well maybe a bit different

This belief in God gives me my very life! Before it, my life was a constant search for pleasure and purpose. Things changed when i decided to search for God and find out for myself if He existed!

I do not attribute every single achievement to God, i still have to put in the effort and make the decision to pursue an achievement. If only God carried me the whole way. But since i believe my very essence of being is sustained by God, i suppose He gets all the credit anyway.

Then that would be the main difference between us (other than the belief in god) in that i take full credit for personal achievements (and blunders) whereas, you cannot.
In my opinion, that equates to an enslaved mind.

Quote from: "karadan"Then that would be the main difference between us (other than the belief in god) in that i take full credit for personal achievements (and blunders) whereas, you cannot.
In my opinion, that equates to an enslaved mind.

A slave to Christ, most certainly, im eternally indebted. I could take credit for my achievements, but it would lift me to the status of a God, clearly i am not, so it seems pointless. An enslaved mind, if only it was that simple.

QuoteSo, some people are atheist right?

Yup

QuoteNow, does it feel natural to believe in no God?

Well, you have to admit, you were an atheist when you were born...right?

QuoteDo you feel at peace when you go to sleep at night?

Yup

QuoteDo you feel like your living a fulfilled life?

Ups and downs, like everyone else. I'm just not bound by the chains of dogma and doctrine. I feel more free.

QuoteDo you feel like your on the right path in life?

Many paths. I'm not like a needle on an old Victrola.

QuoteI got bored so i came here to talk with some atheists

Kewl.  

Quotedo try and be honest, otherwise it defeats the purpose of the exercise.

I thought you were bored?

Quote from: "dionysiou"

Quote from: "karadan"Then that would be the main difference between us (other than the belief in god) in that i take full credit for personal achievements (and blunders) whereas, you cannot.
In my opinion, that equates to an enslaved mind.

A slave to Christ, most certainly, im eternally indebted. I could take credit for my achievements, but it would lift me to the status of a God, clearly i am not, so it seems pointless. An enslaved mind, if only it was that simple.

And who is the mindless drone?

Quote from: "dionysiou"So, some people are atheist right?

True.

Quote from: "dionysiou"Now, does it feel natural to believe in no God?

No idea, never believed. You tell me.

Quote from: "dionysiou"Do you feel at peace when you go to sleep at night?

Of course not. I'm doing the third year of a degree I computing and I have assignments to worry about  lol [/quote]
I know the feeling, I frequent a Christian forum just to see how the other half lives and it's so boring I want to rip my eyes at times.

Quote from: "dionysiou"do try and be honest, otherwise it defeats the purpose of the exercise.

That comment was rude and unnecessary but reveals a great deal about your prejudices about people not in your own in-group.

Welcome aboard.

Regards
Chris

Quote from: "dionysiou"So, some people are atheist right?

Yes.  Do you know what that means?

Quote from: "dionysiou"Now, does it feel natural to believe in no God?

Yes.  I was born that way.  Do you actually believe you were born believing in Jesus?  So, seriously, a baby born in the depths of Africa, in a tiny tribal village already believes in Jesus Christ before anyone ever tells him about that particular God?

Quote from: "dionysiou"Do you feel at peace when you go to sleep at night?

I can be sure you'll twist this but no, and I have it on good authority that Christians who have had similar experiences to mine do not feel at peace, either.  In my experience with devout Christian trauma victims, they tend to hold on to the harmful idea that they are responsible for what happened to them longer than those less devout.  I think it stems from the idea that God has a plan for them which, for some reason, includes getting raped, tortured and forced to live in a damaged or even mutilated body.  

Quote from: "dionysiou"Do you feel like your living a fulfilled life?

Since my illness I've had a hard time finding fulfillment.  I was used to working 60 hour weeks and making people happy.  I also volunteered with local charities including Habitat for Humanity.  Now, I'm helping homeless people by donating my services as a writer.  Just last week, a young New York woman was taken in by a nice young couple inspired by something I wrote. About twenty thousand people read my pages on homelessness last week and many of them clicked through to sites accepting donations to help homeless people.  Still others have written to me about their plans to help those living in deep poverty both directly and indirectly.  I get at least one of these emails per week telling me how I've inspired someone to help homeless people.  So, yeah, I'm feeling fulfilled.  

I understand your sales point - if you have Jesus, you don't need to do anything to feel fulfilled.  It really holds no appeal for me.  I'd rather work for my fulfillment.
 

Quote from: "dionysiou"I got bored so i came here to talk with some atheists  

do try and be honest, otherwise it defeats the purpose of the exercise.

I can't tell if you are being condescending or bigoted here.  So, which is it?

Quote from: "dionysiou"So, some people are atheist right?

Some people are atheists, yes.

Quote from: "dionysiou"Now, does it feel natural to believe in no God?

I don't believe in no god, I just don't believe in a god. The distinction is important because the former is a positive claim and the latter is not.

Quote from: "dionysiou"Do you feel at peace when you go to sleep at night?

I'm not sure what this means, I'm an insomniac so two to fours of sleep is all I've ever gotten for as long as I can remember. Also, I'm a very calm person, I tend to feel at peace 99% of the time. If you're asking if I'm comfortable with not believing in a god then yes. I'm very comfortable only believing in that which I understand and has enough reasonable evidence to support it.

Quote from: "dionysiou"Do you feel like your living a fulfilled life?

Yes, very much so. I think only making decisions on what one can be sure is real will help any one to be sure that they're living a good life.

Quote from: "dionysiou"Do you feel like your on the right path in life?

If I didn't feel like I was on the right path, then I would see if it were true and if it was true, then I would determine what the right path is and go down that path.

Quote from: "dionysiou"I got bored so i came here to talk with some atheists

That's great, a bunch of theists often stop by to talk for a bit.

Quote from: "dionysiou"do try and be honest, otherwise it defeats the purpose of the exercise.

What is the purpose of this exercise?

Quote from: "dionysiou"ill make sure to be more clear, when i say nothing, i mean in the way of God. The very reason for my questioning is i do not know wether or not you have a "hole" inside you.

Here's the problem I have: when I was young and believed in god and Jesus and all that stuff, I had a huge hole. I filled that hole with logic and evidence, and buried all my beliefs because they're effectively useless. Reality doesn't care what you believe in, it doesn't care about anything, it just is. By masking reality behind the veil of superstitious beliefs only somewhat refined from bronze aged desert nomads, I only distanced myself from what I wanted; as accurate a representation of reality as possible. You don't get to understanding reality by guessing with feelings and faith.

Quote from: "dionysiou"[...]This belief in God gives me my very life! Before it, my life was a constant search for pleasure and purpose. Things changed when i decided to search for God and find out for myself if He existed![...]

This finding out he existed, how did you do that? Where did you find god? Can you provide reasonable evidence with an argument that this god does exist?

Ive never felt this real and awake than in the past ~2 years since i stopped believing in god.  I guess its natural to question and seek answers, but i also know that nobody alive really knows those answers, so it doesnt keep me up at night

i stopped believing in god because i sat down and really thought about the world and what I have experienced and if there was a god how he should be and act  (it doesnt involve mass killings of infants and allowing people to die and kill in my name for a start).  Its pretty embarrassing for me to say i blindly believed what i was taught and never really thought about it truthfully.

I get very bitter at my parents for teaching me christian dogma when i was young and im still trying to unlearn all that and to adjust to a life without that fear of the psychotic sociopath above my head watching my every move.

So because of all those years of being taught about god, there is going be an adjustment period where i have to unlearn all that bs.  Otherwise I feel amazing, I already know the difference between right and wrong and i accept people and love them so effortlessly now.  God and religion definitely did not teach me that.

dionyisou's post reeks of condescension.  I'm surprised how many people actually entertained his questions.  

If you are genuinely curious about how we live with ourselves, then you've come to the right place for the answers.  If you came here to be a close minded bigot, there are at least a dozen people here who can and will politely demolish any argument you might have to justify your preconceptions of Atheism.

Love,
Matt

Quote from: "trexshinigami"Ive never felt this real and awake than in the past ~2 years since i stopped believing in god.  I guess its natural to question and seek answers, but i also know that nobody alive really knows those answers, so it doesnt keep me up at night

i stopped believing in god because i sat down and really thought about the world and what I have experienced and if there was a god how he should be and act  (it doesnt involve mass killings of infants and allowing people to die and kill in my name for a start).  Its pretty embarrassing for me to say i blindly believed what i was taught and never really thought about it truthfully.

I get very bitter at my parents for teaching me christian dogma when i was young and im still trying to unlearn all that and to adjust to a life without that fear of the psychotic sociopath above my head watching my every move.

So because of all those years of being taught about god, there is going be an adjustment period where i have to unlearn all that bs.  Otherwise I feel amazing, I already know the difference between right and wrong and i accept people and love them so effortlessly now.  God and religion definitely did not teach me that.

Don't fret over believing your parents, you had no choice. Now I don't mean that you believed them because they all said the same thing or because you were only exposed to one idea (although that would have helped). Ever since our ancestors have been able to hold abstract ideas and pass them on as language children have done (and believed) what their parents have told them. You are evolved to believe your parents as authority figures. Why do I think this is so? Well take two kids, one that automatically obeys what they are told and one that does not, each is told 'Don't touch that!'. One touches the snake and one does not. Which one gets to reproduce and pass on their behaviour? Exactly, the one that obeys automatically. We are also a hierarchical social species where reproductive power has shaped how tribalism and authority are mediated. In this case failure to be obedient to authority results in subtle, or not too subtle, peer pressure to conform to authority. Hence a monarchy is a 'natural' societal organisation. As all societies have been pervaded with superstition I would contend that humans would endow their supernatural world with a mirror image of their social reality and bingo! You get God.  

Religion is simply institutionalised superstition science is institutionalised curiosity and law is institutionalised socially acceptable behaviours. Each of these, Religion, Science and the Law are continually refined, they evolve, they are each subjected to appropriate selection pressures. If you see the world in the context of our ancestors trying to make sense of the unknown, the known and each other then for me humanity make sense. With this understanding we do have a chance of making things better for us and our descendants.

My intentions are as i stated, to try and see wether or not people fell as if they have something missing in their life. Why are some of you so easily miffed by me? You should drop any pre-conceptions, im not here to convince you. I asked for honesty because without it, this exercise is pointless. Dont read into it so much, its as i say it is.

So far, some great responses, goodstuff.

Quote from: "dionysiou"My intentions are as i stated, to try and see wether or not people fell as if they have something missing in their life. Why are some of you so easily miffed by me? You should drop any pre-conceptions, im not here to convince you. I asked for honesty because without it, this exercise is pointless. Dont read into it so much, its as i say it is.

So far, some great responses, goodstuff.

Not miffed, but wondering why your boredom should make us want to engage in discussion with you. Pointless is someone coming into a forum just to engage in an "exercise" for their own entertainment, and not for legitimate discussion. Read the forum rules, please. Also, try first to understand, then to be understood. You'll get farther.

Quote from: "dionysiou"This belief in God gives me my very life! Before it, my life was a constant search for pleasure and purpose. Things changed when i decided to search for God and find out for myself if He existed!

I'd like to hear more about this (see emphasis).

First, I'm interested in your definition of pleasure and purpose.

Second, you kind of make a constant search for them sound like a bad thing.  What I'm wondering is, isn't that what we are technically all doing, our entire lives?  Whether we are religious or not?

Third, you seem to imply that now that you found God, your search for both has ceased.  Is that a correct interpretation of your statement?  If so, is that really true?  Can you state an absolute purpose you've found, and quantify/qualify the pleasure you've found or explain why you no longer seek it?  I'm expecting you might say that God gives you "pleasure" in some way (joy, fulfillment, etc)...but don't you still have to actively, constantly seek that pleasure as part of a lifelong effort to follow/understand God's Will and accept/enact His Plan?  I'm also expecting you'll say the latter is your purpose...but aren't you still constantly seeking it?  To understand your part in it, and what you should do next, even if the form that seeking takes on is regularly engaging in a dialog with God and looking for His influence in the world?

Basically it seems like you are implying that your search for pleasure and purpose is over, and also that that makes your path somehow preferable to the path of an atheist, for whom you appear (?) to believe the search endlessly continues.  I'm not really buying that you can make any of those claims.  Maybe you can convince me?

For the record, I think I mostly enjoy the search for pleasure and purpose.  It's sort of the definition of life, maybe.

Quote from: "dionysiou"My intentions are as i stated, to try and see wether or not people fell as if they have something missing in their life. Why are some of you so easily miffed by me? You should drop any pre-conceptions, im not here to convince you. I asked for honesty because without it, this exercise is pointless. Dont read into it so much, its as i say it is.

So far, some great responses, goodstuff.

Honestly, I have better things to do.  No, I'm not "miffed".  I just don't really care what someone else thinks of me, my sleeping habits, my beliefs, or my sense of fulfillmient, and don't really see them as being terribly important in the scheme of things.

Quote from: "Persimmon Hamster"

Quote from: "dionysiou"This belief in God gives me my very life! Before it, my life was a constant search for pleasure and purpose. Things changed when i decided to search for God and find out for myself if He existed!

I'd like to hear more about this (see emphasis).

First, I'm interested in your definition of pleasure and purpose.

Second, you kind of make a constant search for them sound like a bad thing.  What I'm wondering is, isn't that what we are technically all doing, our entire lives?  Whether we are religious or not?

Third, you seem to imply that now that you found God, your search for both has ceased.  Is that a correct interpretation of your statement?  If so, is that really true?  Can you state an absolute purpose you've found, and quantify/qualify the pleasure you've found or explain why you no longer seek it?  I'm expecting you might say that God gives you "pleasure" in some way (joy, fulfillment, etc)...but don't you still have to actively, constantly seek that pleasure as part of a lifelong effort to follow/understand God's Will and accept/enact His Plan?  I'm also expecting you'll say the latter is your purpose...but aren't you still constantly seeking it?  To understand your part in it, and what you should do next, even if the form that seeking takes on is regularly engaging in a dialog with God and looking for His influence in the world?

Basically it seems like you are implying that your search for pleasure and purpose is over, and also that that makes your path somehow preferable to the path of an atheist, for whom you appear (?) to believe the search endlessly continues.  I'm not really buying that you can make any of those claims.  Maybe you can convince me?

For the record, I think I mostly enjoy the search for pleasure and purpose.  It's sort of the definition of life, maybe.

My purpose now, is whatever God wants it to be. haha im a bit of a tool i suppose. I dont seek pleasure anymore because, my pleasure is doing Gods work. Yes this requires effort from me, but nothing compared to some others. Yes i take on dialog with God, tell him whats happening and whats next? I dont know what the path of an atheist is, thats why i ask questions.

oh and thumpa if you dont care about what im saying, why bother posting?

In closing, this is not the time nor place for me to be giving testimonies. For those of you who develop a "tug" on your heart, i would recommend seeking God, thats the only way it will stop.

dionysiou, you brought up the easiest argument to refute. A better question would be: do you think something is missing in God's life?

Quote from: "dionysiou"A slave to Christ, most certainly,

Slavery is slavery, no matter who the master.

Quoteim eternally indebted.

For what exactly? You didn't ask for anything Jesus did. He did it of his own accord. Thus, he can not demand repayment and you are, per definition, not indebted in the slightest. (That assuming there even WAS a Jesus and assuming on and on and on...)

QuoteI could take credit for my achievements, but it would lift me to the status of a God

No. It would mean you know your own worth.

QuoteAn enslaved mind, if only it was that simple.

It is.

QuoteThis belief in God gives me my very life! Before it, my life was a constant search for pleasure and purpose. Things changed when i decided to search for God and find out for myself if He existed!

This is the exact reason WHY I have peace in my life now. I do not carry around this delusion. I am so much more at peace now not basing my happiness on something that is NOT there. This statement by you is incredibly unrealistic. There is no way you could ever prove that a God exists. It's all in your head. You are simply wishful thinking and basing your entire happiness on something that isn't even there. If I knew I was doing that, then I would not have peace in my life.

QuoteMy intentions are as i stated, to try and see wether or not people feel as if they have something missing in their life.

Yes. There is something missing in my life.... DELUSION.

Quote from: "lundberg500"Yes. There is something missing in my life.... DELUSION.

If I was to plant some delusion in my "hole" I wouldn't go for this subservient crap, I would be god.
If you're going to make a fantasy world why not make something fun and new?
Anyway I'm off to make myself a Magneto helmut, and a cape, and I'm gonna wear my underpants on the outside.

Quote from: "dionysiou"My purpose now, is whatever God wants it to be. haha im a bit of a tool i suppose. I dont seek pleasure anymore because, my pleasure is doing Gods work. Yes this requires effort from me, but nothing compared to some others. Yes i take on dialog with God, tell him whats happening and whats next? I dont know what the path of an atheist is, thats why i ask questions.
...
In closing, this is not the time nor place for me to be giving testimonies. For those of you who develop a "tug" on your heart, i would recommend seeking God, thats the only way it will stop.

I was kind of hoping for an answer to the first thing I asked...that is, your definition of pleasure and purpose in the context in which you originally used those terms.

The reason this is important is that I suspect you are probably meaning "earthly" or "worldly" pleasures...perhaps "frivolous" pleasures...when you used the word originally.  The fact is, there are more abstract forms of pleasure than those that we as human beings are capable of experiencing.  For instance, I find pleasure in a job well done.  In helping someone with a problem.  In marveling at this universe.  That sort of thing.  I also find pleasure in many things you would probably have to call worldly, as they relate to the physical senses...such as sitting on a grassy hillside on a warm, breezy day...or walking in the cool, crisp November air.  But I think your original definition would have been much more concrete/specific than that.  More along the lines of "money"..."sexual pleasure"..."altered, aroused states of mind brought on by drugs"...am I right?  I also think you would probably think of such these as somehow sinful or 'bad', but that's another discussion altogether.  The thing is, it doesn't take a concept of God for anyone to realize some forms of pleasure are relatively short-lived as compared with others, and thus by extension perhaps not as worthy of being sought/invested in.  It just takes life experience, maturity, sometimes maybe a little guidance from your elders who have already discovered that truth.  Anyway, I am still seeking pleasure every time I start a job -- any job -- and do my best to finish it well.  Every time I think, "what can I do to effect a positive change on society?"  And I think you are too, by your own admission.  You take the effort to "do God's work" and when you do so you are rewarded with a sense of fulfillment -- but it's not something that would just happen if you sat around all day, you have to seek it.  I ask, why must it be "God's" work that you do...why can't it be your own, as it is for me?

And I suspect that by "purpose" you meant the answer to the question, "why am I here"...  The problem with that definition of "purpose" is that your apparent answer -- "to enact God's Plan" -- is not really specific enough to be called a purpose, in my book.  To me, purpose would be a fairly specific definition of your agenda -- a definition you can actually work with, day to day, to make choices for how you will directly act.  For example, if you were more specific such as "to bring as many of my fellow man unto God as possible", that is getting closer to what I would call a purpose.  You can try to enact that in many ways, such as coming to this forum as you have.  (Side note...the last statement in your reply to me is clear indication that this is why you are here...please don't insult my intelligence by claiming otherwise now).  To get down to that level of specificity, I imagine you look for what you would call signs from God.  So again, you are seeking it, constantly.  As am I.  I have to look out at the world and think to myself, what part can I play in making this a better place (by my own definition of better, of course)?  Then I can do it.  And over time, I might come to realize that what I'm doing isn't working (or even that it IS working) and the landscape before me changes.  Or, my world view might shift a little.  My plans & actions might need to change to accommodate new experiences and goals.  Would you claim to know exactly what God's Plan is?  Surely not.  You have to think about it daily and ask how you can contribute to what your understanding of it is on that day.  Your world view might shift, too, as God reveals His wisdom to you, right?  

So, how are we really any different?  I think I know what your answer might be -- the difference is that I am mostly looking internally for my purpose and that, as an imperfect being, I can easily lead myself in the wrong direction...while you are mostly looking externally, to a perfect being you trust to lead you in the right direction.  Well, I don't believe in any such being as you would define it.  I might argue that every man's "God" is really a projection of his own desires/goals/thoughts/self, created in your image.  The real difference between us, as I see it, is that your opinions come attached to an immense arrogance -- an external claim of absolute, divine authority -- whereas I recognize that my opinions are merely my own.

Quote from: "dionysiou"oh and thumpa if you dont care about what im saying, why bother posting?

Because as pointed out earlier, your questions are loaded with unexamined premises, and my answer not only answers your questions but your unexamined assumptions.

Quote from: "dionysiou"I could take credit for my achievements, but it would lift me to the status of a God, clearly i am not, so it seems pointless.

My, how magnanimous of you, not taking credit for all your god-like acheivements! Your humility is just... incredible!