I've always figured that a majority of atheists have a basic policy of live and let live with theists. So long as they aren't treading on us, they can go worship whomever or whatever they want. I'll admit that when I was first becoming an atheist, I had some resentment, but it's long since gone.
So what's your policy? Are you a live and let live atheist?
I'm pretty much am - I could care less what or who someone worships until it starts making negative impacts such as legislating one belief over others, forcing your ideology onto others, and so forth.
I don't care if someone prays over their lunch in a public high school, I don't care if there are a huge groups for Christians or any other religious sect on a college campus, I don't care that there's a guy out on the street corner preaching - it's his right - he's not cornering anyone, he's not knocking on my door at 8 in the morning - he's exercising his free speech right. You have a belief in a deity? Cool, good for you.
However, don't go changing the science curriculum to be in line with your ideology, don't tell my kid they have to pray in school if they don't want to - just as I wouldn't tell your kid they can't pray in school if they want to, and if you knock on my door at 8 in the morning on the weekend and ask me if I've found Jesus, I will slam the door in your face - not because you're peddling Jesus but because you unnecessarily woke me up - just ask the Kirby vacuum salesman - they'll tell you the same thing happens to them.
Also, this persecution complex really needs to go. I always hear how persecuted the religious are by the "evil secularists" - you know, most of those who uphold the wall of separation between church and state, that keep prayer out of the high school and evolution in the classroom are your fellow theists right? You can pray in your own home, gather at your church, talk about religion with your friends, praise your god whereever you want, buy religious books, trinkets, t-shirts, music and even put a gigantic Jesus on the hood of your car - as far as religious freedoms go, you're damn lucky.
Anyhow, sorry to turn that into a small rant but just offering my perspective.
Yes, I think so --- and I try to be. The resentment that I have is that people behave as if it's okay for a religious family member (not immediate family, think extended family here) to say "I'm praying for you", or "god has blessed you", or some such, and they expect me to just take it. If I were ever to speak out, it may cause a permanent rift. This is what I resent --- I want "equality of beliefs". Why should I have to tiptoe around someone's religion, while they get to fling it about whenever they please? It's really annoying.
But, at the same time, I certainly don't think churches should be illegal, or religion should be banned, or any such thing. Then, I'd just be doing the same thing that the intolerant religions have done throughout history to other faiths and/or atheists. I think tolerance is the key.
My 2 cents, anyway.
Live and let live, basically sums it up as was originally stated.
I try to follow the live and let live mantra. However if any kind of religious doctrine threatens my rights in any way, I would fight back. If my child is being taught creationism as fact in school, you'll hear from me. If me or someone I loved needed emergency contraceptive and the pharmacist's religious beliefs caused them to refuse it to me, you'll better be wearing a cup. Just yesterday on the bus as man offered me a religious pamphlet. I kindly refused, and he ended up ranting to me about how I should call the publisher and apologize and all this ridiculous crap, therefore ruining a good portion of my trip to the park. I won't stand for that. But I try hard to be curtious and respectful of others beliefs as long as it doesn't negatively effect my life.
p.s. like my new sig?
Live and let die...dun dun dun...dun dun dun...dun dun...
Oh, sorry.
As long as people don't shove their religious beliefs in my face, I'm pretty tolerant. If they get pushy about it, I get snarky.
I just don't understand how so many seemingly smart people believe so many dumb things.
I don't mind the beliefs so much, but I can't tolerate the consequences of teaching kids anti-science propaganda.
How do you live and let live when the evidence based world is under attack?
Live and let live means attempting to live in peace, or at least not firing the first shot. ID was a shot in my child's face. When one tries to remove ID from schools, they're just trying to fix a mess, not attack theists.
Quote from: "Willravel"Live and let live means attempting to live in peace, or at least not firing the first shot. ID was a shot in my child's face. When one tries to remove ID from schools, they're just trying to fix a mess, not attack theists.
That's pretty much how I see it....I don't care what a person believes until it starts negatively affecting others....in the above case negatively affecting our children's education.
Quote from: "brainshmain"However if any kind of religious doctrine threatens my rights in any way, I would fight back. If my child is being taught creationism as fact in school, you'll hear from me. If me or someone I loved needed emergency contraceptive and the pharmacist's religious beliefs caused them to refuse it to me, you'll better be wearing a cup.
Yup - agree with all this. Live and let live only works if both parties are willing to go with it. If the theists are oppressive, then they must be opposed. It's just the answer isn't to oppress the rights of the theists, just make them stop what they're doing.
I am pretty much live and let live.
They can worship how they wish, pray to themselves anywhere they wish (or even in small groups as long as neither I nor my son are required to participate), wear religious clothing or jewelry, etc.
I draw the line at making laws based on their beliefs (stem cell research, abortion and gay marriage being three MAJOR issues that are bandied about based SOLELY on religious beliefs). These things affect me and mine and I resent that they can use their religious beliefs to ban (or want to ban) these issues.
Other than that, I'm good.
I guess I'm a "live and let live... if you do" atheist. I'm fine with letting people believe what they want to believe... if anyone needs the mental security that death doesn't truly exist, they're entitled to believe that. But I'm entitled to not let anyone tell me that's how it actually goes down.
Hey Guys :
As a businessman, my opening 'mission statement' would be this: "You’re interesting, but you folks have Science all wrong".... No offense is intended to the majority of the folks here. You use all the fancy talk, but you stop short of positive science. You don't follow through with good scientific principle.. Would you be interested in discussing such..??
Quote from: "doggone"Hey Guys :
As a businessman, my opening 'mission statement' would be this: "You’re interesting, but you folks have Science all wrong".... No offense is intended to the majority of the folks here. You use all the fancy talk, but you stop short of positive science. You don't follow through with good scientific principle.. Would you be interested in discussing such..??
Would you care to explain why you're typing this in this particular thread? What is your point, and would you care to post it in the appropriate thread?
Quote from: "McQ"Would you care to explain why you're typing this in this particular thread? What is your point, and would you care to post it in the appropriate thread?
doggone, I concur with McQ. We can't read you mind. If you have something specific to discuss start a new topic. If not, at least try to be tangentially related to the topic at hand.
I’m new. It looked like a thread for philosophy and science.. Hey, if not, sorry… Did I miss a more appropriate thread.?? Warning: I can prove people wrong (theist or atheist)..
I suppose in theory if you were a fundamentalist, simply letting atheists live how they want might be immoral. If you thought they were all going to hell for their lack of belief it would be wrong not to try and do something to bring them around, no?
There is a section called "Introductions". And I don't think you can prove me wrong about how clear that is. After saying your hellos, please feel free to start a thread if it's a new topic, or find a thread with the appropriate topic by using the search function.
I suppose I am mostly live and let live. With a few exceptions , I don't want religion of any shape or form mixed with my politics or education. I have been known to have long heated debates with my sister over religion (she is born again and I was fine the first time) but when my grandmother decides to pray for my filthy heathen soul I let her think I don't mind.
Other than that as long as no one tries to shove god down my throat I leave them alone.
Quote from: "doggone"I’m new. It looked like a thread for philosophy and science.. Hey, if not, sorry… Did I miss a more appropriate thread.?? Warning: I can prove people wrong (theist or atheist)..
Yes, please read the forum rules if you are unclear on what to post where. Also, feel free to ask members, moderators, admins. to see if you're posting appropriately. It can be helpful in making yourself more clear.
An introduction is not necessary, but certainly welcome. It tells us who you are, why you are here, and what your goal in this community is.
Can you explain why you put a "warning" at the end of this last post? I'm not clear on the point of it.
Thanks.
No i am not a live and let live athiest.
Religion has been the cause of millions and millions of deaths, and the suffering of so many, myself included.
'Agreeing to disagree' is so pointless... where does it get you? nowhere. Argument and debate is essential in order to maintain a sensible social balance.
Religion is damaging and dangerous... and from my point of view, utter lies, being taught to young children who are indoctrinated and have constrained lives because of it. It's tragic.
Leaving theists be, will mean they will keep on passing down their 'truth' and the human race as a whole will not be able to progress into an age where religion is not the source of war or morality.
religion mixes with politics and education in America most significantly, which DISGUSTS me.
I would love theists to come challenge me about what i believe, because they will find the vast majority of their arguments can be crushed... for the most part they don't do this of course, as they are encouraged to live and let live, which i reckon is the stance of one with too little confidence in what they believe.
I dont set out to CHANGE what a theist believes, but i certainly dont sit back and let us live parallel lives. There's no logic in that.
Quote from: "0dan1"I dont set out to CHANGE what a theist believes, but i certainly dont sit back and let us live parallel lives. There's no logic in that.
I would have to disagree, of course, that there is
no logic in a live and let live policy.
However, I am always happy to see younger folks like yourself with plenty of enthusiasm for their beliefs and plenty of vigor in defending them. That's always a good thing.
I want to make sure that no one confuses my statement on live and let live as apathy, or indifference to religion. It is not anything of the sort. I defend and support my beliefs as warranted. That said, I am an APATHEIST, because I really couldn't care less if any god or gods exist.
Well yes, there is logic in a live and let live policy, amongst friends of differing opinions, or anything else of that line.
But some religious people are certainly not living and let live, they indoctrinate children (like they did me, once =P). I am not just defending my beliefs, i intend to defend others from such a biased upbringing. That is what i meant by the conflict needed to keep the balance in society.
I think it is vital not only to defend your beliefs from attack, but to attack those whose you believe to be wrong.
I am ALL for free speech, people can hold whatever beliefs they like. And it is not a war or anything like that. But surely we have to criticize that which we disagree with, as this is the nature of reason, and coming to conclusions.
Living and let living is not instigating. You're free to defend yourself. I defend myself and other atheists when we're attacked all the time. And if they start a conversation in which they want me to discuss the nature of religion or god, I don't hold back. What I mean with live and let live is simply this: no militant atheism. No door to door fundy evangelism of atheism. No walking up to strangers to tell them the good news about galapagos finches.
Quote from: "doggone"Hey Guys :
As a businessman, my opening 'mission statement' would be this: "You’re interesting, but you folks have Science all wrong".... No offense is intended to the majority of the folks here. You use all the fancy talk, but you stop short of positive science. You don't follow through with good scientific principle.. Would you be interested in discussing such..??
I assume this is in reference to evolution which is odd since this thread has nothing to do with evolution. We do have an evolution vs creationism thread where you're welcome to demonstrate in what ways we have science "all wrong".
Generally, I think I have a "live and let live" philosophy... However, people don't seem to understand that even mentioning their God as if he existed is offensive. Like, (and I hear this all of the time) a woman was all torn up about a miscarrage and someone told her not to be sad because it just wasn't God's will. How does that make it better, that God killed her baby?! Seriously, tell her that you're sorry for her loss and then stfu.