Title: Books on the biology of belief / daydream vs. hallucinations
Post by: new atheist on October 25, 2010, 04:32:40 AM
Post by: new atheist on October 25, 2010, 04:32:40 AM
I'm interested in learning more about the biological reasons many humans believe in the supernatural. I know there are a few books on the topic, but being new to atheism, I'm not sure which authors are atheists, and which ones are religious.
I'm also interested in learning the biological reasons why people may think they see "visions" such as a hallucination or something similar that I don't know the word for. I'm referrring to those who are not under the influence of substances and who are not mentally ill. Is it possible that a person who has been so indoctrinated with the supernatural/paranormal, that they think they see something when they really don't? Or that there is some part of the brain that is like a camera that snaps pictures of say horribly frightening images on the TV, and replays them when a person is awake, and the person thinks they see a vision? Or can an imagination (even of an adult) be so overactive, that combined with a strong phobia of the supernatural, one's mind can trick one into thinking that there is a "spirit" in the room? Or could a person who has suffered post traumatic stress disorder (who has flashbacks) potentially have the flashbacks (after years of being untreated) morph into other images (that the person also associates with fear) so that they think they are being haunted by spirits?
I've heard of hallucinations that are normal to have just before sleep and just after sleep. I was just curious if it's possible that daytime hallucinations could be normal for a person if they've had a traumatic life. For instance, most people daydream, how does this differ from a hallucination? A daydream is normally pleasant, but if a person is under duress, perhaps their daydreams are more unpleasant. And daydreams can happen at any time, it's not like most people say "Hey I'm going to have a daydream now" they usually kind of drift off. Perhaps someone who is more prone to fear/panic/anxiety might have "daydream nightmares."
If the information is available, I'd also be interested in learning how people can stop the "daydream nightmares" from occurring.
I am not a scientist, so I'd prefer something that is simpler to understand.
I'm also interested in learning the biological reasons why people may think they see "visions" such as a hallucination or something similar that I don't know the word for. I'm referrring to those who are not under the influence of substances and who are not mentally ill. Is it possible that a person who has been so indoctrinated with the supernatural/paranormal, that they think they see something when they really don't? Or that there is some part of the brain that is like a camera that snaps pictures of say horribly frightening images on the TV, and replays them when a person is awake, and the person thinks they see a vision? Or can an imagination (even of an adult) be so overactive, that combined with a strong phobia of the supernatural, one's mind can trick one into thinking that there is a "spirit" in the room? Or could a person who has suffered post traumatic stress disorder (who has flashbacks) potentially have the flashbacks (after years of being untreated) morph into other images (that the person also associates with fear) so that they think they are being haunted by spirits?
I've heard of hallucinations that are normal to have just before sleep and just after sleep. I was just curious if it's possible that daytime hallucinations could be normal for a person if they've had a traumatic life. For instance, most people daydream, how does this differ from a hallucination? A daydream is normally pleasant, but if a person is under duress, perhaps their daydreams are more unpleasant. And daydreams can happen at any time, it's not like most people say "Hey I'm going to have a daydream now" they usually kind of drift off. Perhaps someone who is more prone to fear/panic/anxiety might have "daydream nightmares."
If the information is available, I'd also be interested in learning how people can stop the "daydream nightmares" from occurring.
I am not a scientist, so I'd prefer something that is simpler to understand.
Title: Re: Books on the biology of belief / daydream vs. hallucinat
Post by: The Magic Pudding on October 25, 2010, 05:08:04 AM
Post by: The Magic Pudding on October 25, 2010, 05:08:04 AM
You might find something useful here.
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/allinthemind/s ... 909156.htm (http://www.abc.net.au/rn/allinthemind/stories/2010/2909156.htm)
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/allinthemind/s ... 909156.htm (http://www.abc.net.au/rn/allinthemind/stories/2010/2909156.htm)
Title: Re: Books on the biology of belief / daydream vs. hallucinat
Post by: Prometheus on October 25, 2010, 05:14:26 AM
Post by: Prometheus on October 25, 2010, 05:14:26 AM
I've thought about these things before. Specifically induced hallucination and the minds ability to embrace and heighten "spiritual" experiences.
A potential solution to "nightmares" of anykind. Also very interesting by itself. I do something similar to this when hunting to help maintain a "statuelike" posture. I can often pass several hours in what feels like minutes to me while maintaining enough alertness to hear and see game when they approach. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream)
I have a few of these every year as well as "sleep paralysis". the paralysis can be very freaky, i usually hear loud sounds and see dark shapes just outside my field of vision yet i cant wake up or move. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_awakenings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_awakenings)
This guy has a lot of interesting stuff to say about dreams. His "Redbook" was recently published. I'm seeking a copy myself soon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung)
A potential solution to "nightmares" of anykind. Also very interesting by itself. I do something similar to this when hunting to help maintain a "statuelike" posture. I can often pass several hours in what feels like minutes to me while maintaining enough alertness to hear and see game when they approach. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream)
I have a few of these every year as well as "sleep paralysis". the paralysis can be very freaky, i usually hear loud sounds and see dark shapes just outside my field of vision yet i cant wake up or move. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_awakenings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_awakenings)
This guy has a lot of interesting stuff to say about dreams. His "Redbook" was recently published. I'm seeking a copy myself soon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung)
Title: Re: Books on the biology of belief / daydream vs. hallucinat
Post by: Prometheus on October 25, 2010, 06:02:33 AM
Post by: Prometheus on October 25, 2010, 06:02:33 AM
Speaking of the "spiritual" experiences I mentioned, I'll tell you about an experiment i tried once. In middle school and part of high school I created my own god and spent 3 years embracing her. A goddess of death and entropy. She cannot have a name because her very existence is based on change. In death all things are embraced by her unmade so that their material components can be used again. I kept adding things in to see how far I could take it and was surpirsed to learn that eventually I really did believe in the diety at times.
It went as far as to provoke a physical repsonse, i could feel intense spasms of ecstacy when contemplating my diety, my purpose as her follower, and the rituals i developed to commune with her. I beilieved that it was my purpose to destroy and kill as much as possible during my life time so as to fight back against some rival force which seemed to want everything organized and permanent(Which would eventually lead to stagnation and the "true death" of the universe from which no new life could emerge.). This rival force likely represents humanity to me personally. I saw myself as a sort of "berserker/druid/executioner". I would daydream about creating superviruses and doomsday weapons to unmake civilization. But, the rational part of my brain would always win out and I've never done anything detrimental to my own well being(Like going on a killing spree or experimenting with dangerous pathogens). I think this is the case with most theists. They only completely embrace their "beliefs" when they are very desperate or these beliefs happen to be beneficial to them in some way. I also used this "berserker" thing when I was forced to fight in school(Damn Vocies always started trouble with me because i'm an egghead). You can easily fall into believing this kind of stuff to the extent that it makes you fearless, stronger, and numb to pain. I've used it to win fights against guys who were 50+ pounds bigger than me. Also it negates the importance of your real world goals and interests sometimes.If I ever find myself miserable with my life as it is it helps to have this "Escape plan" in place where i go on a suicidal killing spree. Becuase of this I don't get stressed out about my problems. If i fail a test its no big deal, my purpose here is to die. I can never fail at that. Hate my coworkers? I just bump em up a few spaces on my to kill list
. No I don't really believe any of this crap, it was an interesting experiment and now its there when the shit hits the fan if i need it. I think that all of us have some level of this irrational belief within us whether we admit it or not.
Humans have a profound capacity and possibly a need to embrace things which are irrational.The people behind this church seem to have a good understanding of a lot of the things I'm talking about. They use "supernatural" rituals to deal with issues they are having in their life(Just as theists do) despite the fact that they are all atheists. Their founder was a psychologist and I think he new a lot more about what I'm trying to say than most anyone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Satan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Satan)
Almost forgot to add this in. In my experiement I was never able to make myself see or hear anything. The most i ever achieved was the feelings of ecstacy. I tried often, I have a forest behind my house and I would walk it late at night by starlight in an attempt to coax some "Entity" into appearing or speaking to me. One of my rituals involved doing this during a storm(Summer storms are the most pleasant). Even if your not a nutjob like me these storms are something you should experience at least once in your life(I believe Its neccessary to be alone at night to fully understand what I'm talking about. Something to do with abandoning your fears and your real world. It lets your mind wander wherever you care to take it.). My theory is that these religious experiences are mostly fabrications and group hysteria(Did you see that? What? Holy crap I see something!). I've never heard of a case of a mentally healthy person having one while under proffessional observation(Brain scans etc to prove they are seeing/hearing something.). If they are seeing something while fully awake they must have embraced the thing to an extent that I wasn't able to. Its entirely possible that this is the case but i personally won't believe it without solid, recreateable evidence.
It went as far as to provoke a physical repsonse, i could feel intense spasms of ecstacy when contemplating my diety, my purpose as her follower, and the rituals i developed to commune with her. I beilieved that it was my purpose to destroy and kill as much as possible during my life time so as to fight back against some rival force which seemed to want everything organized and permanent(Which would eventually lead to stagnation and the "true death" of the universe from which no new life could emerge.). This rival force likely represents humanity to me personally. I saw myself as a sort of "berserker/druid/executioner". I would daydream about creating superviruses and doomsday weapons to unmake civilization. But, the rational part of my brain would always win out and I've never done anything detrimental to my own well being(Like going on a killing spree or experimenting with dangerous pathogens). I think this is the case with most theists. They only completely embrace their "beliefs" when they are very desperate or these beliefs happen to be beneficial to them in some way. I also used this "berserker" thing when I was forced to fight in school(Damn Vocies always started trouble with me because i'm an egghead). You can easily fall into believing this kind of stuff to the extent that it makes you fearless, stronger, and numb to pain. I've used it to win fights against guys who were 50+ pounds bigger than me. Also it negates the importance of your real world goals and interests sometimes.If I ever find myself miserable with my life as it is it helps to have this "Escape plan" in place where i go on a suicidal killing spree. Becuase of this I don't get stressed out about my problems. If i fail a test its no big deal, my purpose here is to die. I can never fail at that. Hate my coworkers? I just bump em up a few spaces on my to kill list
. No I don't really believe any of this crap, it was an interesting experiment and now its there when the shit hits the fan if i need it. I think that all of us have some level of this irrational belief within us whether we admit it or not.Humans have a profound capacity and possibly a need to embrace things which are irrational.The people behind this church seem to have a good understanding of a lot of the things I'm talking about. They use "supernatural" rituals to deal with issues they are having in their life(Just as theists do) despite the fact that they are all atheists. Their founder was a psychologist and I think he new a lot more about what I'm trying to say than most anyone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Satan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Satan)
Almost forgot to add this in. In my experiement I was never able to make myself see or hear anything. The most i ever achieved was the feelings of ecstacy. I tried often, I have a forest behind my house and I would walk it late at night by starlight in an attempt to coax some "Entity" into appearing or speaking to me. One of my rituals involved doing this during a storm(Summer storms are the most pleasant). Even if your not a nutjob like me these storms are something you should experience at least once in your life(I believe Its neccessary to be alone at night to fully understand what I'm talking about. Something to do with abandoning your fears and your real world. It lets your mind wander wherever you care to take it.). My theory is that these religious experiences are mostly fabrications and group hysteria(Did you see that? What? Holy crap I see something!). I've never heard of a case of a mentally healthy person having one while under proffessional observation(Brain scans etc to prove they are seeing/hearing something.). If they are seeing something while fully awake they must have embraced the thing to an extent that I wasn't able to. Its entirely possible that this is the case but i personally won't believe it without solid, recreateable evidence.
Title: Re: Books on the biology of belief / daydream vs. hallucinat
Post by: Ulysses on October 31, 2010, 07:43:01 PM
Post by: Ulysses on October 31, 2010, 07:43:01 PM
Coincidently I wrote about just this type of thing on my blog recently, because many people believe lucid dreams and sleep paralysis to be the action of demons. check it out...http://god-proof.com/blog/?p=32
It's an interesting subject. Here are a couple of books to start you off...
The Spiritual Doorway in the Brain: A Neurologist's Search for the God Experience by Kevin Nelson
The "God" Part of the Brain, by Keith Williamson
Hope this helps
It's an interesting subject. Here are a couple of books to start you off...
The Spiritual Doorway in the Brain: A Neurologist's Search for the God Experience by Kevin Nelson
The "God" Part of the Brain, by Keith Williamson
Hope this helps