Happy Atheist Forum

I need to share this neat bit of irony with you (without meaning disrespect to the deceased).

I'm an attorney here in South Africa.  Recently I got a new Brazilian client who hired a South African to set up their business.  I met this guy in Brazil in July, dealt extensively with him here in SA while setting up the company (which did not go smoothly thanks to a major public sector strike) and about a month ago had lunch with him (sushi, so that he could buy some take away sushi for his girlfriend who loves it).

At the lunch he told me how good God was for him.  He got divorced about 6 years ago, but had recently gone back to church and even started teaching Sunday school.  He had also lost his job around June, and in July this Brazilian company arrived here and hired.  He also got a wonderful new girlfriend.  And then he told me that the Big Brother in the sky is certainly taking care of him.  I just smiled and said I'm happy for him.

Anyway, exactly a week ago he took his son to a party when God sent a drunken driver at 150km per hour crashing straight into him.  He bled to death, with his ribs perforating his heart and lungs.

Now I ask you, what the fuck was God's plan?  Bring the guy all the happiness and then kill him?

Yet, the religious keep on thinking that there is some kind of plan behind it all that we won't understand now.

Ours is not to wonder why Parsifal.
Ours is to die in all manner of horrendous ways.
It will all be made clear in the next life.

Locally we have had stories of Mary MacKillop, our first saint, thank the lord.
I saw a story of the measuring of miracles some get accepted, some not.
We had a story, I don't know any sadder, a car crashes into a preschool,

QuoteSophie suffered burns to 85% of her body and lost both feet, some fingers, and her right ear. Molly Wood also suffered burns to 85% of her body, but has since made a good recovery

I saw Sophie with her bandaged stumps, as cute as a button, a smile on her face.
They didn't show her hours of screaming agony on TV.
That's enough to bring me to tears, but there's more,

QuoteOn May 5, 2006 Sophie made national headlines a second time when she was again badly injured in a road accident. While being pushed across a pedestrian crossing in a wheelchair (by her nanny with her service dog Tara by her side) near her home in Sydney's northern beaches, she was hit by a car and thrown 18 metres. Sophie suffered a heart attack, a broken jaw and shoulder bone, bruising to her head, numerous rib fractures and a tear to her left lung. She was treated at the

Anyway Sophie's survival was seen as a miracle attributable to the sainted Mary by some.
I think the church new better than to use it.
Why do atheists organise?
Well who else do I share this with?

She needs to go buy a lottery ticket.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"She needs to go buy a lottery ticket.

Nah, it'll just spontaneously combust as soon as it wins.

God is just testing their faith and if they're ready for heaven. That guy did it to Job in the bible. Satan coaxed him, ''blow Job's life and he'll be an atheist.''

Quote from: "Parsifal"I need to share this neat bit of irony with you (without meaning disrespect to the deceased).

I'm an attorney here in South Africa.  Recently I got a new Brazilian client who hired a South African to set up their business.  I met this guy in Brazil in July, dealt extensively with him here in SA while setting up the company (which did not go smoothly thanks to a major public sector strike) and about a month ago had lunch with him (sushi, so that he could buy some take away sushi for his girlfriend who loves it).

At the lunch he told me how good God was for him.  He got divorced about 6 years ago, but had recently gone back to church and even started teaching Sunday school.  He had also lost his job around June, and in July this Brazilian company arrived here and hired.  He also got a wonderful new girlfriend.  And then he told me that the Big Brother in the sky is certainly taking care of him.  I just smiled and said I'm happy for him.

Anyway, exactly a week ago he took his son to a party when God sent a drunken driver at 150km per hour crashing straight into him.  He bled to death, with his ribs perforating his heart and lungs.

Now I ask you, what the fuck was God's plan?  Bring the guy all the happiness and then kill him?

Yet, the religious keep on thinking that there is some kind of plan behind it all that we won't understand now.

Poor sod. Just goes to show there is no guarantee of a tomorrow for anybody.

I do like sushi, Butterfish in particular.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"She needs to go buy a lottery ticket.

Nah, it'll just spontaneously combust as soon as it wins.

Na, she'll accidentally slice her carotid artery with it.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"She needs to go buy a lottery ticket.

Nah, it'll just spontaneously combust as soon as it wins.

Sounds like my luck.

I get agitated with how irrational theists are myself. My granny literally says "praise the lord" everytime she finds her car keys(She loses them several times a week.). When i lose mine i manage to find them everytime all by myself . I caught a stomach virus once when i was 12. I was puking and worse for hours. I actually puked so much i started dry heaving. I was completely miserable and my dad took the opportunity to tell me that god was punishing me for being agnostic. Some great parenting right there. Of course when bad things happen just a frequently to believers and church goers its all just "part of gods plan". Rofl

I will say this in their defense as most of them aren't as idiotic as my dad. Their irrational behavior(Praying for example) is their way of dealing with the challenges of life. They might not be able to cope with them otherwise and their superstition rarely causes me or you any harm. Although i do pity them and wish they'd keep these things to themselves, I don't get worked up over it or insult their coping mechanisms(Unless they insult my beliefs first). Just let them have what little comfort these beliefs give them.

Whenever their beliefs are threatened by simple application of common sense and reason theists usually invoke "God works in mysterious ways" to say "I can't explain this because there's some secret answer God is hiding from everyone". There's really nothing mysterious about it: shit happens.

Some of you may like this,

QuoteIn 1672 a German secret agent arrived in Paris and the result was fierce philosophical debate. The secret agent was Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz and he locked horns with two lesser-known but formidable thinkers: Antoine Arnauld and Father Nicolas Malebranche about some of the great philosophical issues of the day.

The Best of all possible worlds - Steven Nadler
http://www.abc.net.au/cgi-bin/common/pl ... 202010&p=1 (http://www.abc.net.au/cgi-bin/common/player_launch.pl?s=rn/philosopherszone&d=rn/philosopherszone/audio&r=pze-2010-10-23.ram&w=pze-2010-10-23.asx&t=Saturday%2023%20October%202010&p=1)

The transcript and mp3 version aren't available until Monday, until then only streaming audio on the link above.
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/philosopherszone/ (http://www.abc.net.au/rn/philosopherszone/)

Leibniz was the inspiration for the character Pangloss in Voltaire's Candide. If you haven't read it I'd recommend it. It relates well to the whole "God works in mysterious ways because he has a great big plan" argument.

I have a friend, around 30 years old, that grew up in an abusive relationship. Father was never home and mother threatened to kill him numerous times. He grew up....tainted. His first relationship busted and  spawned two girls...both are teens now. He just went through (about 5 months ago) a second 5 year relationship that gave  him two girls. His ex wife moved with the boys several hundred miles away. The girls are closer but to see all of them, it'll cost him about 1500 miles per month. Ex wife left him with full credit cards and a house he can't sell in this market.
He was at his wits end.
And then he found...

Jesus.

He's never felt more loved than ever now. He can finally tell people he loves them....even his kids!!! His facebook is sickening drool for the lord. I asked him "Where was God when you were growing up, during your relationships?"

"He has a plan. No one knows what that plan is." says he.

And my friend just can't see the irony.

Reminds me of that "I know I'm something 'cause God don't make no junk" (sic) rubbish.  Only the belief in an imaginary being can save you if nothing else will.

Just an update on the original post, it has now transpired that the poor sod was in trouble with the revenue service and that he had misled my client seriously.  Why is it always the Christians that you can least trust?

Quote from: "Parsifal"Reminds me of that "I know I'm something 'cause God don't make no junk" (sic) rubbish.  Only the belief in an imaginary being can save you if nothing else will.

Just an update on the original post, it has now transpired that the poor sod was in trouble with the revenue service and that he had misled my client seriously.  Why is it always the Christians that you can least trust?

Is this the same Parsifal from the Flat Earth Society? AKA the same guy that tries to state that Australia doesn't exist, or that light wavelengths and frequencies magically bend equally while ignoring the laws governing optics? Sorry this is a bit off topic, but I find this rather interesting :devil:

Also note that this story seems entirely fictional or made up.

Quote from: "TheJackel"Is this the same Parsifal from the Flat Earth Society? AKA the same guy that tries to state that Australia doesn't exist, or that light wavelengths and frequencies magically bend equally while ignoring the laws governing optics? Sorry this is a bit off topic, but I find this rather interesting

Well this Parsifal is from South Africa, so this other Parsifal probably doesn't acknowledge his existence.
But don't take my word for it, because I don't exist either.

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"

Quote from: "TheJackel"Is this the same Parsifal from the Flat Earth Society? AKA the same guy that tries to state that Australia doesn't exist, or that light wavelengths and frequencies magically bend equally while ignoring the laws governing optics? Sorry this is a bit off topic, but I find this rather interesting ;)

Quote from: "TheJackel"

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"

Quote from: "TheJackel"Is this the same Parsifal from the Flat Earth Society? AKA the same guy that tries to state that Australia doesn't exist, or that light wavelengths and frequencies magically bend equally while ignoring the laws governing optics? Sorry this is a bit off topic, but I find this rather interesting ;)

I know there is a Parsifal on the Flat Earth Society Forums, but I don't think that is our Parsifal. As far as how remote the chances of two people using that name go, I imagine anyone familiar with the works of Wagner would know it and potentially use it. I think it's kind of a cool screen name to use. I would guess it's not as remote a chance as you may think.

Parsifal has this as a signature -

QuotePlease support follow my mammoth project to tweet the whole of Darwin's On the Origin of Species at https://twitter.com/OriginsTweeted (https://twitter.com/OriginsTweeted).

Well nutter Parsifal wouldn't do The Voyage of The Beagle, because all the places it went don't exist.
Or it would be short.
We left the Thames and sailed East, after a long night we sighted land that wasn't there.
We all agreed this was obviously the end of the Earth, so we turned back.

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"Parsifal has this as a signature -

QuotePlease support follow my mammoth project to tweet the whole of Darwin's On the Origin of Species at https://twitter.com/OriginsTweeted (https://twitter.com/OriginsTweeted).

Well nutter Parsifal wouldn't do The Voyage of The Beagle, because all the places it went don't exist.
Or it would be short.
We left the Thames and sailed East, after a long night we sighted land that wasn't there.
We all agreed this was obviously the end of the Earth, so we turned back.

I don't think the signature or Evolution for that matter is relevant between the two. Most people think he plays a Devils Advocate role (Pretend nutter for LULZ) at the Flat Earth Forum. But two Parsifals to which are supposed "lawyers" within the same region seems a bit fishy to me :)

I am not whatever Parsifal it is you claim to live in Australia that believes the earth is flat.

Would my facebook page maybe help convince you?  Or maybe my law firm's website here in Johannesburg?  What about some pictures?

Parsifal is the name of Wagner's last opera, which I happen to love.  It is a beautiful opera and many people love the opera, including possibly people who believe the earth is flat, and therefore people with diametrically opposed views to life might choose the same nick.  However, that does not make those people the same person.

Jeezly Crow, I love Pudding's posts.  They're so angular, they tickle my brain.

Quote from: "Parsifal"I am not whatever Parsifal it is you claim to live in Australia that believes the earth is flat.

Would my facebook page maybe help convince you?  Or maybe my law firm's website here in Johannesburg?  What about some pictures?

Parsifal is the name of Wagner's last opera, which I happen to love.  It is a beautiful opera and many people love the opera, including possibly people who believe the earth is flat, and therefore people with diametrically opposed views to life might choose the same nick.  However, that does not make those people the same person.

Calm down son :)  And BTW, the other Parsifal also claimed to be a lawyer. And do realize that I had stated that he also claimed that Australia was South America. It seems very interesting to me in regards to the nearly perfect overlap. However, I really don't care or mind either way since it's just interesting. :P

Back on Topic:

What I would like to see is some evidence in regards to the OP. I find the OP itself to be a tad bit in line to story telling

Quote from: "TheJackel"

Quote from: "Parsifal"I am not whatever Parsifal it is you claim to live in Australia that believes the earth is flat.

Would my facebook page maybe help convince you?  Or maybe my law firm's website here in Johannesburg?  What about some pictures?

Parsifal is the name of Wagner's last opera, which I happen to love.  It is a beautiful opera and many people love the opera, including possibly people who believe the earth is flat, and therefore people with diametrically opposed views to life might choose the same nick.  However, that does not make those people the same person.

Calm down son :)  And BTW, the other Parsifal also claimed to be a lawyer. And do realize that I had stated that he also claimed that Australia was South America. It seems very interesting to me in regards to the nearly perfect overlap. However, I really don't care or mind either way since it's just interesting. :P

Back on Topic:

What I would like to see is some evidence in regards to the OP. I find the OP itself to be a tad bit in line to story telling

\


Yeah, indeed, I am horrified that flat earthers also love opera.

Anyway, the deceased's death was not reported in the press as the poor guy was not that famous.  I am prepared to give an affidavit if required.  Soon I'll be working on his estate, however, so I can post a copy of the death certificate.

Quote from: "Parsifal"

Quote from: "TheJackel"

Quote from: "Parsifal"I am not whatever Parsifal it is you claim to live in Australia that believes the earth is flat.

Would my facebook page maybe help convince you?  Or maybe my law firm's website here in Johannesburg?  What about some pictures?

Parsifal is the name of Wagner's last opera, which I happen to love.  It is a beautiful opera and many people love the opera, including possibly people who believe the earth is flat, and therefore people with diametrically opposed views to life might choose the same nick.  However, that does not make those people the same person.

Calm down son :)  And BTW, the other Parsifal also claimed to be a lawyer. And do realize that I had stated that he also claimed that Australia was South America. It seems very interesting to me in regards to the nearly perfect overlap. However, I really don't care or mind either way since it's just interesting. :P

Back on Topic:

What I would like to see is some evidence in regards to the OP. I find the OP itself to be a tad bit in line to story telling :). And personally, I think that is actually news worthy material. Especially for local News Papers.  

I don't think this story is very "wild."

Bad shit happens to good people all the time.  Caprice comes with each day.  People regularly get killed as they reach the top of their profession, or personal happiness, or spiritual peace at last.

You're born.  You die.  You try to fill your days with good stuff.  Death comes at any time, and doesn't particularly care what your faith is, or isn't.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"Death comes at any time, and doesn't particularly care what your faith is, or isn't.

Quite often on SA roads, so I've heard.

Well, when you look at religious people they usually credit all good things that happen to them as God being graceful to them and bad things as tests. They say it as if natural phenomena doesn't exist. Like, When one gets an A on a paper they thank God for the wonderful grade, while not acknowledging the studying and accumulated knowledge from the teacher.

So the question is, DID God put that drunk driver there? DID God know that drunk driver would hit that man? DID God want this to happen according to his perfect plan?

Ask any strongly religious person and he will be forced to say yes. Of course, they will give some bullshit excuse like "It was his time" or "Since the fall of man, sin makes things like this happen" (I've actually heard that response before)

If God really was "looking out for him" like he believed, there was no point why God would kill him causing his family horrible grief for no reason. If anything, this drew people away from the God that supposedly killed him. In fact, thats what happened to me. After a family member died, after I and many others prayed and cried for days and weeks, only to find out our prayers went without answer.

Anyways, all these questions are based on the assumption that God exists. But if you look at it from the point of view that God does NOT exists, it makes perfect sense. Shit happens, not because a God makes it happen, but because thats just the way things work.

Quote from: "TheJackel"

Quote from: "Parsifal"Reminds me of that "I know I'm something 'cause God don't make no junk" (sic) rubbish.  Only the belief in an imaginary being can save you if nothing else will.

Just an update on the original post, it has now transpired that the poor sod was in trouble with the revenue service and that he had misled my client seriously.  Why is it always the Christians that you can least trust?

Is this the same Parsifal from the Flat Earth Society? AKA the same guy that tries to state that Australia doesn't exist, or that light wavelengths and frequencies magically bend equally while ignoring the laws governing optics? Sorry this is a bit off topic, but I find this rather interesting :devil:

Also note that this story seems entirely fictional or made up.

I'm sorry I just need to get this out of my chest. But  lol

Quote from: "TheJackel"That would be a good Idea, because I am actually curious if this is true since it's a pretty wild story :pop:

Dude, it is actually kind of rude to question the authenticity of someone's post, especially if the poster is relatively new and hasn't given any reason for suspicion.

Take things at face value until proven otherwise.

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"Death comes at any time, and doesn't particularly care what your faith is, or isn't.

Quite often on SA roads, so I've heard.

That is one of the main reasons my boss now lives in the UK. I've heard actual horror stories from him.

QuoteDude, it is actually kind of rude to question the authenticity of someone's post, especially if the poster is relatively new and hasn't given any reason for suspicion.

Take things at face value until proven otherwise.

Thank you!  I must say, I was slightly perplexed about how to prove this story.  I merely retold a conversation I had with this guy, and a month later he died in a motor accident.  Daily conversations do not get reported in the newspapers, and so many people die in Johannesburg in car crashes that these are also not reported.

Quote from: "Parsifal"

QuoteDude, it is actually kind of rude to question the authenticity of someone's post, especially if the poster is relatively new and hasn't given any reason for suspicion.

Take things at face value until proven otherwise.

Thank you!  I must say, I was slightly perplexed about how to prove this story.  I merely retold a conversation I had with this guy, and a month later he died in a motor accident.  Daily conversations do not get reported in the newspapers, and so many people die in Johannesburg in car crashes that these are also not reported.

No problem

Don't worry, you don't need to prove yourself here.

Quote from: "karadan"

Quote from: "Parsifal"

QuoteDude, it is actually kind of rude to question the authenticity of someone's post, especially if the poster is relatively new and hasn't given any reason for suspicion.

Take things at face value until proven otherwise.

Thank you!  I must say, I was slightly perplexed about how to prove this story.  I merely retold a conversation I had with this guy, and a month later he died in a motor accident.  Daily conversations do not get reported in the newspapers, and so many people die in Johannesburg in car crashes that these are also not reported.

No problem

Don't worry, you don't need to prove yourself here.**

**When making claims you do need evidence to support those claims.  Otherwise it is considered opinion and/or pseudoscience.
However, this case is a personal account, so we will have to take it at face value because there isn't any proof available.

Quote**When making claims you do need evidence to support those claims.  Otherwise it is considered opinion and/or pseudoscience.
However, this case is a personal account, so we will have to take it at face value because there isn't any proof available.

Yes, there are a few things that even atheists will have to take on faith.  Fortunately, I don't think my story is as outrageous as claiming that someone was born from a virgin and is now a God, or that someone lived in a fish.

Quote from: "Parsifal"

Quote**When making claims you do need evidence to support those claims.  Otherwise it is considered opinion and/or pseudoscience.
However, this case is a personal account, so we will have to take it at face value because there isn't any proof available.

Yes, there are a few things that even atheists will have to take on faith.  Fortunately, I don't think my story is as outrageous as claiming that someone was born from a virgin and is now a God, or that someone lived in a fish.

I didn't think your opening post was far fetched, it's a bit sad if you can't recount a personal experience without verifiable evidence.
It's not as if you were asking for money for his widow, or claiming dog testicles cure cancer.
Even if it was fictional, it was still a reasonable start for a discussion.
I found the flat earth Parsifal amusing, I can understand if you didn't.

I don't see why his opinion about the shape of the earth is relevant to this relating of an anecdote anyway.  Now, were he debating something formally, I'd consider it (even if I didn't mention it) because it would give insight into thinking patterns.

Plus, I'm glad I don't drive in South Africa, apparently.

Quote from: "Parsifal"

Quote**When making claims you do need evidence to support those claims.  Otherwise it is considered opinion and/or pseudoscience.
However, this case is a personal account, so we will have to take it at face value because there isn't any proof available.

Yes, there are a few things that even atheists will have to take on faith.  Fortunately, I don't think my story is as outrageous as claiming that someone was born from a virgin and is now a God, or that someone lived in a fish.

I wasn't suggesting it was outrageous, it just had that feel that it was story telling. I was actually curious if it really occurred because I don't take things on Faith alone. In fact I see most things on TV for example as story telling. Either way, interesting it is :pop:

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"I don't see why his opinion about the shape of the earth is relevant to this relating of an anecdote anyway.  Now, were he debating something formally, I'd consider it (even if I didn't mention it) because it would give insight into thinking patterns.

Plus, I'm glad I don't drive in South Africa, apparently.

This is entirely true . I only pointed out something interesting, and that is why I separated that from what was on topic. So the two discussions were unrelated.

Quote from: "Parsifal"I am not whatever Parsifal it is you claim to live in Australia that believes the earth is flat.

Would my facebook page maybe help convince you?  Or maybe my law firm's website here in Johannesburg?  What about some pictures?

Parsifal is the name of Wagner's last opera, which I happen to love.  It is a beautiful opera and many people love the opera, including possibly people who believe the earth is flat, and therefore people with diametrically opposed views to life might choose the same nick.  However, that does not make those people the same person.

I tried to tell them you weren't the same Parsifal. But do they listen to me?

Noooooooooo!  

Keep up the good posts, man!

Quote from: "McQ"

Quote from: "Parsifal"I am not whatever Parsifal it is you claim to live in Australia that believes the earth is flat.

Would my facebook page maybe help convince you?  Or maybe my law firm's website here in Johannesburg?  What about some pictures?

Parsifal is the name of Wagner's last opera, which I happen to love.  It is a beautiful opera and many people love the opera, including possibly people who believe the earth is flat, and therefore people with diametrically opposed views to life might choose the same nick.  However, that does not make those people the same person.

I tried to tell them you weren't the same Parsifal. But do they listen to me?

Noooooooooo!  

Keep up the good posts, man!

You, on the other hand -- weren't you in The Great Escape?  Don't deny it!

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"You, on the other hand -- weren't you in The Great Escape?  Don't deny it!

Dammit! Busted.  

To original poster.

The easiest way to explain away your post is.....god doesnt exist... its only our minds that work in mysterious ways.