Happy Atheist Forum

As some of you may already know I have a boyfriend who has newly been converted as a Jehovah Witness - It has been quite trying to our relationship so far but we/I have dealt with it OK.

I have tried  to be really supportive of his new found religion (well as much as I can being an Atheist) and have gone along to some weird Jehovah convention, driven him to his Kingdom Hall and accompanied him to his Witness friends house for a BBQ where I was the only non-witness there out of about 20 people and got surrounded at one stage of the night.

I have started reading the bible as I have never read it before an want to gain some sort of insight from what he is now going to base his life upon. I have also been reading some of the magazines he has bought home like - 'what the bible really teaches you' and various 'Watchtower' magazines.

Now tonight he has two of his Witness friends coming to our house for a bible study - I have agreed to join in and to listen and ask questions. I am feeling a little uncomfortable about this but I am trying to not let it bother me and kind of accept it as a new experience where I can perhaps ask some questions and find out more stuff about the Witnesses  :hmm:

Anyways - I was wondering if any of you guys out there has some questions I could bring to the table or any more advice on how I am dealing with it so far.

Quote from: "chrome"Anyways - I was wondering if any of you guys out there has some questions I could bring to the table or any more advice on how I am dealing with it so far.

That depends on what they're studying.  They will do their best to keep the conversation on the topic of what they're studying that night.  Your best bet is to join them and get your own copy of whatever book they're currently using (presumably Knowledge that Leads to Eternal Life) and then pick apart the chapter that they're studying.  Barring that, anything you ask them will be redirected into a personal study with you.

They may not give you an opportunity to ask the hard questions.  In my experience bible study groups pick and choose rather than going through the entire bible.

Quote from: "Whitney"They may not give you an opportunity to ask the hard questions.  In my experience bible study groups pick and choose rather than going through the entire bible.

The JWs skip it altogether and study a book that cites the bible.

I would ask them, since God has a plan for everyone, and no one would die before his/her plan has been fulfilled, what plan God would have for people who are alive thanks to blood transfusions (which they believe should be refused and you should rather die than get a blood transfusion).  That would include people like me.  Are we just superfluous, occupying space that could otherwise be occupied by good JW's?

Quote from: "Whitney"They may not give you an opportunity to ask the hard questions.  In my experience bible study groups pick and choose rather than going through the entire bible.

The bible study is going to be hosted by two of my boyfriends work mates (the ones that converted him) so I think it will be pretty casual and they actually suggested for me to come up with some questions for them.

Quote from: "Parsifal"I would ask them, since God has a plan for everyone, and no one would die before his/her plan has been fulfilled, what plan God would have for people who are alive thanks to blood transfusions (which they believe should be refused and you should rather die than get a blood transfusion).  That would include people like me.  Are we just superfluous, occupying space that could otherwise be occupied by good JW's?

That's an interesting one Parsifal  :brick:

Your answer is probably going to be something along the lines of "god doesn't have a personal plan for every individual, but rather a grand plan for all humanity".  They started taking that line in the 70s to address teh blood transfusion issue.

QuoteChome wrote: You know there is something I don't really like about the Witnesses. They come across with a certain amount of smugness, as they believe that they are right and everyone else is wrong and they are the only ones that will be saved... They almost look down on you but try to relate and says things like - You know I used to be like you and smoke/drink/swear and live with sin until I found "the truth". I think that is why I feel a little uncomfortable about tonight but I know I shouldn't be.

The religious in general are like that.  Their delusion gives them some sense of superiority.  Maybe you don't let him dominate you, Chrome, so he has to find his masculinity elsewhere, like in religion.  

Quote from: "Parsifal"The religious in general are like that.  Their delusion gives them some sense of superiority.  Maybe you don't let him dominate you, Chrome, so he has to find his masculinity elsewhere, like in religion.  :idea: Although that's not the way to try and dominate me... perhaps whips and chains might of worked better  

Quote from: "chrome"

Quote from: "Parsifal"Ah I see what your saying  :D

Now Chrome you really shouldn't tease our foreign friends.
Might be good for tourism though.

Quoteby PoopShoot » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:34 am

Your answer is probably going to be something along the lines of "god doesn't have a personal plan for every individual, but rather a grand plan for all humanity". They started taking that line in the 70s to address teh blood transfusion issue.

So this god wants me dead for the sake of humanity?  Well, fuck Him then.

Chrome, how did the bible study go?

I remember prayer meetings at my parents' house when I was small.  All the adults would kneel at chairs, praying in turns.  And everyone that was praying would confirm the prayers of the others with sounds and noises like: "uhm" "uhm" "uhm" "yeeeees, lord".  Mass hysteria of note.  Oh god, religion cost me my childhood!

Quote from: "Parsifal"Chrome, how did the bible study go?

hmm not as bad as I imagined... was pretty casual - we were reading out of some Witness book and then discussing what we just wrote then looking up versus in the bible. I was mostly quiet sort of let them do their thing. They are pretty damm excited about Paradise earth and kept talking about how great it will be.

I got into a bit of an argument with one of the Witnesses ONLY because he was being disrespectful to other religions - which I though was wrong so I pointed it out to him - I told him that I don't like that they talk badly of other religions like they do and they are not any better than anyone else... just different!

I'm still not convinced though... I think they over analyse things way too much.

Not so much praying Parsiful just an opening prayer and a closing prayer... hmm the things we do for love

Bible Study:
Matthew 16:15-17:

15: And Jesus said unto them, "And whom do you say that I am?"

16: And Simon Peter answered and said,"You are the eschatological manifestation of the ground of
our being, the ontological foundation of the context of our very selfhood revealed."

17: And Jesus answered and said unto him, "What?

Anyway, Christian theists love their bible study. "What do you suppose Jesus meant when he said....?" "What is Paul saying here?" Etc., etc., etc.

It's never biblical study on the order of "What do you suppose the author of Paul was smoking at the time of this letter?" "Why are the Gospels written after some of Paul's letters?" "Why do scholars think that more than half of Paul's letters weren't written by Paul?"

QuoteGawen said:

Anyway, Christian theists love their bible study. "What do you suppose Jesus meant when he said....?" "What is Paul saying here?" Etc., etc., etc.

It's never biblical study on the order of "What do you suppose the author of Paul was smoking at the time of this letter?" "Why are the Gospels written after some of Paul's letters?" "Why do scholars think that more than half of Paul's letters weren't written by Paul?"

Why couldn´t they just come out and say it?   (Don´t bother answering   ) It is this uncertainty about what they meant that leads to the constant strife among all the sects.

Quote from: "Parsifal"

QuoteChome wrote: You know there is something I don't really like about the Witnesses. They come across with a certain amount of smugness, as they believe that they are right and everyone else is wrong and they are the only ones that will be saved... They almost look down on you but try to relate and says things like - You know I used to be like you and smoke/drink/swear and live with sin until I found "the truth". I think that is why I feel a little uncomfortable about tonight but I know I shouldn't be.

The religious in general are like that.  Their delusion gives them some sense of superiority.  Maybe you don't let him dominate you, Chrome, so he has to find his masculinity elsewhere, like in religion.  :hmm:

Quote from: "navvelline"I came to notice that when I was trying to get a grasp on different peoples perspectives. Catholics, Baptist, JW's, (most of them) all carry around the certainty that they're the 'chosen ones' and everyone else is wrong. Who wants to live life like that?  

When in fact it is said, I believe, thta the people of Christ will gain entry into heaven...Anyone else thinking Jews? Seeing as how Christ was Jewish? I love pointing this out to Christians. Especially when they say "Christ was the first Christian". No...His disciples were the first Christians, Christ was Jewish.

Quote from: "GAYtheist"

Quote from: "navvelline"I came to notice that when I was trying to get a grasp on different peoples perspectives. Catholics, Baptist, JW's, (most of them) all carry around the certainty that they're the 'chosen ones' and everyone else is wrong. Who wants to live life like that?  

When in fact it is said, I believe, thta the people of Christ will gain entry into heaven...Anyone else thinking Jews? Seeing as how Christ was Jewish? I love pointing this out to Christians. Especially when they say "Christ was the first Christian". No...His disciples were the first Christians, Christ was Jewish.

I think the phrase "love thy neighbor" originally meant something along the lines of "love another Jew".

Chrome, I'll tell you. I don't think you're handling this right at all. Sorry, but I don't. This guy, your boyfriend, is quite pissing me off with his selfish behavior. And, to be frank, you're sort of pissing me off with your passive attitude.

Watchtower magazines? Really? The guy is gone.

Are you living in his house? If so then that's a problem. If it's your house then tell him to clear out. But you need to get away from this weirdness.

It's not up to you to have to deal with his...his...whatever the hell it is. It's up to him to deal with it, not you. You be strong and you be you.

What a drag, having some Jehovah's Witnesses over for a Bible study. Goddamn, I couldn't take it, no way, and I sure as hell wouldn't take part in it.

There's no shared future, none at all, that could possibly happen between an atheist and a Jehovah's Witness, unless you were to find yourself trapped in an elevator with one.

Quote from: "i_am_i"Chrome, I'll tell you. I don't think you're handling this right at all. Sorry, but I don't. This guy, your boyfriend, is quite pissing me off with his selfish behavior. And, to be frank, you're sort of pissing me off with your passive attitude.

 You've said this type of thing before. What right or reason do you have to be "pissed off" about someone else's personal problems?

[youtube:1qhrzs9z]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAdLruOIKmA[/youtube:1qhrzs9z]

Quote from: "Sophus"

Quote from: "i_am_i"Chrome, I'll tell you. I don't think you're handling this right at all. Sorry, but I don't. This guy, your boyfriend, is quite pissing me off with his selfish behavior. And, to be frank, you're sort of pissing me off with your passive attitude.

 You've said this type of thing before. What right or reason do you have to be "pissed off" about someone else's personal problems?

None at all. My apologies.

Quote from: "i_am_i"Chrome, I'll tell you. I don't think you're handling this right at all. Sorry, but I don't. This guy, your boyfriend, is quite pissing me off with his selfish behavior. And, to be frank, you're sort of pissing me off with your passive attitude.

Watchtower magazines? Really? The guy is gone.

Are you living in his house? If so then that's a problem. If it's your house then tell him to clear out. But you need to get away from this weirdness.

It's not up to you to have to deal with his...his...whatever the hell it is. It's up to him to deal with it, not you. You be strong and you be you.

What a drag, having some Jehovah's Witnesses over for a Bible study. Goddamn, I couldn't take it, no way, and I sure as hell wouldn't take part in it.

There's no shared future, none at all, that could possibly happen between an atheist and a Jehovah's Witness, unless you were to find yourself trapped in an elevator with one.

Wow... shall I call you frank?    All advice I guess is welcome - I know that this sort of lifestyle wouldn't suit you at all but we are different.

Your right I am too passive... but that is just me I guess I have always had that nature... I know I need to be more stronger - I will get there one day.

Yes it is getting very serious now... it is no longer just a hobby for my partner, it is his way of life. This change has not affected our relationship too negatively; besides obsessive bible talk that seems to go on too long sometimes and some heated arguments on religion between us... but our general relationship has become more caring and loving.

You know though i_am_i your right about his selfishness... all of this including his new religion and all that has changed because of it, is a very selfish act.

All in all, I still question what I am to do and have differing feelings on what to do with my life from day to day

My opinion is that if you aren't able to have meaningful conversations with him due to him always bringing up his religious nonsense then he doesn't care about your feelings and that's a pretty good reason to show him the door.

Quote from: "Whitney"My opinion is that if you aren't able to have meaningful conversations with him due to him always bringing up his religious nonsense then he doesn't care about your feelings and that's a pretty good reason to show him the door.

Blunt, but true. Once communication stops a relationship is nothing but habit and communication appears to have stopped.