Happy Atheist Forum

If I were going to sit and read the bible cover to cover, taking notes, highlighting, folding pages (GASP), which translation would be the best to use as ammo.  Know thy enemy right?

The best one is to get oldest one you can, but then you'll need to be able to read and understand another language.

Quote from: "Davin"The best one is to get oldest one you can, but then you'll need to be able to read and understand another language.

k, thanks..  

Depends on what you want to do.  If you are looking just to read it and have a general knowledge of what it says, the I would recommend the New International Version.  If you are looking to debate fundamentalists, then you will probably need the read the King James Version - for some reason many fundamentalist christians have an obsession with it and refuse to accept any other version.

Velma's right about the KJV for the Southern Baptist types.  If going for Pentecostal types, anything written in plan English works.  Here's where it gets tricky: Jehovah's Witnesses.  JWs have their own translation that nobody else accepts, but JWs think is the most accurate.  If you wnt to talk with JWs, using their translation isn't a must, but it will give you the upper hand.  Your best bet for finding one is to either go to a Kingdom Hall and simply ask for one or if you don't want to deal with them before you have a copy, go to thrift stores and look for "The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures".

Fundamental pentecostals are more of the KJV though.  Especially in the south.  Most of the ones I grew up with look down at the NIV as inferior, almost 'second hand' writing.

True.  Basically anyone with a drawl is more likely to respect KJV.

Thanks for the input.  I don't come across many JW's.  I think i'll go for the KJV.
(so um..have modern Christians read the other book by King James?  Daemonologie?)  Seems like he had a level head on his shoulders.

RE attitudes towards the KJV, it's because the "thee"s and "thou"s have the patina of regal authority to uneducated ears, imo.

The Brick Testament is my preferred translation.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/ (http://www.thebricktestament.com/)

I have started reading the bible for myself lately and have found that the KJV is OK some of the language can be confusing - I really think that any verse needs to be read in context so reading whole chapters at a time is advisable.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"Here's where it gets tricky: Jehovah's Witnesses.  JWs have their own translation that nobody else accepts, but JWs think is the most accurate.  If you wnt to talk with JWs, using their translation isn't a must, but it will give you the upper hand.  Your best bet for finding one is to either go to a Kingdom Hall and simply ask for one or if you don't want to deal with them before you have a copy, go to thrift stores and look for "The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures".

I have actually compared the KJV to the JW Translation and the only differences I have found is the 'thees' and 'thous' have been changed to updated words as in 'our' and 'to' and also the JW's have changed wherever it says 'lord' to 'Jehovah'. The meaning is still there though.

Quote from: "chrome"I have actually compared the KJV to the JW Translation and the only differences I have found is the 'thees' and 'thous' have been changed to updated words as in 'our' and 'to' and also the JW's have changed wherever it says 'lord' to 'Jehovah'. The meaning is still there though.

Then you've missed a lot.  The NWT is closer to the NIV or the Revised standard Version.  The translators of the NWT used the American Standard Version and Revised Standard version heavily as guides for what's a good English translation.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "chrome"I have actually compared the KJV to the JW Translation and the only differences I have found is the 'thees' and 'thous' have been changed to updated words as in 'our' and 'to' and also the JW's have changed wherever it says 'lord' to 'Jehovah'. The meaning is still there though.

Then you've missed a lot.  The NWT is closer to the NIV or the Revised standard Version.  The translators of the NWT used the American Standard Version and Revised Standard version heavily as guides for what's a good English translation.

I have not read the whole bible/s or compared every verse so I may not be the proper judge on it... but I have compared many many verses in both versions and so far they have the same meaning.

Quote from: "chrome"I have not read the whole bible/s or compared every verse so I may not be the proper judge on it... but I have compared many many verses in both versions and so far they have the same meaning.

Any two versions of the bible side-by-side will have essentially the same meaning.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "chrome"I have not read the whole bible/s or compared every verse so I may not be the proper judge on it... but I have compared many many verses in both versions and so far they have the same meaning.

Any two versions of the bible side-by-side will have essentially the same meaning.

So are you saying that all bibles are the same?

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "chrome"I have not read the whole bible/s or compared every verse so I may not be the proper judge on it... but I have compared many many verses in both versions and so far they have the same meaning.

Any two versions of the bible side-by-side will have essentially the same meaning.

I disagree. The difference would be particularly palpable if we were all multi-lingual and could compare a modern English one with one in Latin, or the original texts in Greek or Hebrew. But even if you hold a King James version next to, say, an NIV, the King James has much more content in it. I don't know why but for whatever reason the other Bibles cut out a lot of verses.

Quote from: "chrome"So are you saying that all bibles are the same?

Essentially, yes.  There are some wording differences that can be use to pedantically argue varying points in doctrine, but there are a vreity of bases for doing that.

Quote from: "Sophus"I disagree. The difference would be particularly palpable if we were all multi-lingual and could compare a modern English one with one in Latin, or the original texts in Greek or Hebrew. But even if you hold a King James version next to, say, an NIV, the King James has much more content in it. I don't know why but for whatever reason the other Bibles cut out a lot of verses.

You're right about variant languages.  That said, find me a verse in two different bibles (other than John 1:1 in the NWT) that are vastly different from one another in meaning.

You'd be surprised.Generically speaking...
If you're Jewish, you'll read:
24 books
Torah (Pentateuch): first 5 books - Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Number, Deuteronomy
Prophets:
Former (4) - Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings -
Latter (4) - (most use this order, but some do not) Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel-
Minor Prophets (usually a single unit, including Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi)
Writings (11) - (usual order, but not always) Psalms, Proverbs, Job, Song of Solomon, Ruth, Lamentations Ecclesiastes, Esther, Daniel, Ezra, Nehemiah, Chronicles
1st Commandment: "I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery (or bondage)."

Catholic:
73 books:
Includes those books of the Bible accepted by Protestants(in response to the Protestant Reformation, adopted at the Council of Trent in 1546):
Tobit, Judith, Greek additions to Esther, Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach, Baruch, Letter of Jeremiah
3 Greek additions to Daniel: Prayer of Azariah & the Song of the Three Jews, Susanna, Bel and the Dragon, 1 and 2 Maccabees
1st Commandment: "I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me."
9th and 10th Commandments both relate to coveting, while others consider these to be just one Commandment, the 10th. Compare to Greek Orthodox: Treats worshiping other gods and making images of the Deity as the 1st and 2nd Commandments, while Jewish, Catholic, and Lutherans put these together in a single Commandment (2nd for Jewish, part of the 1st for Catholics)

Protestant:
Old Testament (39) and New Testament (27);total of 66.
Protestant religions generally use the Hebrew Bible as the Old Testament, but the books are ordered differently (for example, reversing the order of Prophets-Writings), and some are divided, so the total number of books in the Protestant Old Testament is 39:
Historical (17)
Poetical (5)
Prophetical (17)
The New Testament consists of 27 books:
Gospels (4)
Acts
Letters (21)
Revelation
1st Commandment: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

Here are 17 verses in the KJV, that are omitted from some Bible versions although some may have brackets around them or footnotes.

1) "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost" (Matthew 18:11).

2) "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God" (Acts 8:37).

3) "But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses" (Mark 11:26).

4) "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" (I John 5:7).

5) "Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting" (Matthew 17:21).
Prayer is also omitted in Mark 12:33, and fasting in Mark 9:29, Acts 10:30, and 1 Corinthians 7:5.

6) "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:44,46).

7-17) Matthew 23:14, Mark 7:16, 15:28, Luke 17:36, 23:17, John 5:4, Acts 15:34, 24:7, 28:29, and Romans 16:24.

Other examples: 1 Timothy 3:16: "God was manifest in the flesh," In other versions "God" is replaced with the word "He".  

The Lord's Prayer:
"And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil" (Luke 11:2-32) (KJV)
Compare to:
"He said to them, "When you pray, say: "'Father, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come. Give us each day our daily bread. Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. And lead us not into temptation" (Luke 11:2-4) (NIV).

Remember that God is not the author of confusion and promised to preserve his word...*laffin*