Title: The devil, facebook, Faust and my mother
Post by: Parsifal on September 26, 2010, 12:09:28 PM
Post by: Parsifal on September 26, 2010, 12:09:28 PM
I need to share something that happened this week, highlighting the friction that being an atheist can cause amongst friends, and the ignorance that generally exists about atheists. It also taught me that many christians equate atheism to satanism and that perhaps we should make it abundantly clear that when we say we don't believe in God, or any god, then that includes the devil.
It all started when I bought this DVD of Gounod's opera, Faust (http://www.amazon.com/Gounod-Faust-Bryn ... 252&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Gounod-Faust-Bryn-Terfel/dp/B003Y58CKI/ref=sr_1_1?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285496252&sr=8-1)). Faust is based on the play by Goethe where the old man Faust sells his soul to Mephistopheles (the devil) in exchange for youth and a pretty girl. There are some strings attached, but Faust only discovers this later. By the way, if there are any opera lovers among you, this DVD is worth getting.
So, thoroughly enthralled by the brilliant production, I went and posted on Facebook:
This ensued the following replies from my religious and less religious friends (names have been changed to protect their identities)
The devil is such an horrendous reality for many people, that they just couldn't see the humour. Strikingly, though, was the idea that you sell your soul to the devil when you are or become an atheist and that you cannot believe in the Devil if you don't believe in God (which is a premise I would challenge). The absolute fear of the devil (without which christianity would definitely not exist) is just stupefying.
Anyway, a few days later I chatted to my mother (my parents are missionaries) over MSN, and the following conversation ensued:
I would like to have your comments.
My views are: the religious simply don't understand what being an atheist entails, this notion that atheism is rebellion against God, and a choice for satan seems to have survived the dark ages. It also reminded me that, for the religious, it is hard to understand how we can reject something so obvious and palpable as god. Don't we just see Him around us all the time? In the rain he sends (or withholds), in a baby being born, in a flowering rose, etc etc.
My relationship with my parents is more complicated. I don't want to hurt them, but I cannot pretend to believe just for their sake, especially not after I saw how a lifetime of devotion to god has wrecked their lives, and the negative impact it had had on us, their children. However, my collection of books by the Four Horseman of the Apocalypse, and others, never fails to silence my parents, and I can really see the pain in their eyes. My father once paged through The Origin of Species and Dawkins's Greatest Show on Earth, and expressed his disappointment at their lack of knowledge on the subject of evolution. We all know that Evolution can only occur within species, he always says.
Who could have thought that a tongue in the cheek comment on facebook could have such unforeseen reactions?
It all started when I bought this DVD of Gounod's opera, Faust (http://www.amazon.com/Gounod-Faust-Bryn ... 252&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Gounod-Faust-Bryn-Terfel/dp/B003Y58CKI/ref=sr_1_1?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285496252&sr=8-1)). Faust is based on the play by Goethe where the old man Faust sells his soul to Mephistopheles (the devil) in exchange for youth and a pretty girl. There are some strings attached, but Faust only discovers this later. By the way, if there are any opera lovers among you, this DVD is worth getting.
So, thoroughly enthralled by the brilliant production, I went and posted on Facebook:
QuoteI want to sell my soul to the devil, just like Faust
This ensued the following replies from my religious and less religious friends (names have been changed to protect their identities)
QuoteME I want to sell my soul to the devil, just like Faust.
20 September at 20:37 · Comment · Like
KB: ‎:)
20 September at 20:45 · Like
MR: Haven't you already done that, by being an atheist?!
20 September at 20:49 · Like
WK: Zat can be arranged mein sohn.
20 September at 20:49 · Like
ME: MR, the devil is much more fun than his opponent.
20 September at 20:52 · Like
MR: You can't believe in one and not the other! That makes no sense!
20 September at 20:54 · Like
ME: Well, if you compare the number of people killed by God (over 2 million, although we can't be sure) in the bible to the number killed by the Devil (10), the Devil is far more benign. Plus he gave Faust youth and a gorgeous girl.
20 September at 20:56 · Like
AB: haven't you spent that money already ?
20 September at 20:57 · Unlike · 1 person
AW: Let me know what you get for it, mine's also on the market.
20 September at 20:58 · Like
ME: AW, I'm a good negotiator, you can be sure I'll drive a hard bargain. I can even help you with your transaction.
AB, LOL!
20 September at 21:06 · Like
WK: Lol
20 September at 21:08 · Like
VJ: No, your soul is too precious...
20 September at 21:35 · Like
CM: And how much are you asking for it?
20 September at 23:46 · Like
ME: CM, you're the devil?
20 September at 23:47 · Like
CM: No, I'm just interested. Maybe I could get a comission
21 September at 00:00 · Like
ME: Hmmm, I like that. So you've got a direct line to the Prince of Darkness then?
21 September at 00:01 · Like
ME: For those of you who are concerned about my soul, here is what prompted my once in a life time offer. Read the review I wrote about it too.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gounod-Faust-NT ... _cr-mr-img (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gounod-Faust-NTSC-Angela-Gheorghiu/dp/B003Y58CKI/ref=cm_cr-mr-img)
21 September at 00:02 · Like
WK: Sharp!
21 September at 00:12 · Like
ML: I don't know if the devil will be interested. He actually wants people with a soul. And besides, he is already arrogant enough for the both of you
21 September at 08:39 · Like
ME: ML, I didn't know the devil was picky. In Faust he pretty much seems happy with whetever he can get.
21 September at 08:57 · Like
The devil is such an horrendous reality for many people, that they just couldn't see the humour. Strikingly, though, was the idea that you sell your soul to the devil when you are or become an atheist and that you cannot believe in the Devil if you don't believe in God (which is a premise I would challenge). The absolute fear of the devil (without which christianity would definitely not exist) is just stupefying.
Anyway, a few days later I chatted to my mother (my parents are missionaries) over MSN, and the following conversation ensued:
QuoteMother: Son, you put something terrible on facebook, dad wonders what your first boss (from 1997 and 1998) would say
Me: what?????????????
Mother: that you now worship the devil
Me: I’m not really sure what to say
Me: if I had said that I now worship the tooth fairy, would it have been better?
Me: let me put it like this, the devil, god, santa claus and the tooth fairy are all the same to me
Mother: I know, but you can never salvage your own name again
Me: what?????????????????????
Mother: people react to it and see it
Mother: dad is devastated
Me: please go have a look at my facebook
Mother: have you changed it?
Me: long ago
Me: Mom, on Monday I put this on my facebook: I want to sell my soul to the devil, just like faust
Me: because I got my dvd of faust that day, recorded at the Royal Opera (London)
Me: it is stunning
Me: the reaction on facebook was amazing
Me: go have a look
Mother: I know faust is amazing, but should you really say such things?
Me: well, the next day I got a new job
Me: why not?
Mother: dad said he had prayed too much for you.
Me: So, the next day I added: selling my soul to the devil has paid dividends
Mother: these are our prayers
Me: Yours too? I thought you didn’t believe in god anymore
Me: So, mom, if anything, the devil answers prayers quicker than god
Mother: Son, it is a mother’s privilege to worry and to pray that something beautiful happens to her son’s business
Me: well, yes
Me: Mom, I do not believe in the devil
Mother: not according to you wrote
Me: I thought you had known me better than that, besides, it was fun provoking the religious on facebook
Mother: oh, son, what about your name?
Me: wait, you mean: What will the people say (a favourite threat my parents used when we were children to make us stop being who we really were, and to act up according to other supposedly perfect people’s expectations of us)
Mother: No, you’re a grown up man, it doesn’t suit you
Mother: if you were 16, it would have been fine
Me: oh, please!
Mom: (L)
Mother: good night
Me: are you upset now?
Me: should I really worry about other people’s reactions to what I feel about a figment of their imagination?
I would like to have your comments.
My views are: the religious simply don't understand what being an atheist entails, this notion that atheism is rebellion against God, and a choice for satan seems to have survived the dark ages. It also reminded me that, for the religious, it is hard to understand how we can reject something so obvious and palpable as god. Don't we just see Him around us all the time? In the rain he sends (or withholds), in a baby being born, in a flowering rose, etc etc.
My relationship with my parents is more complicated. I don't want to hurt them, but I cannot pretend to believe just for their sake, especially not after I saw how a lifetime of devotion to god has wrecked their lives, and the negative impact it had had on us, their children. However, my collection of books by the Four Horseman of the Apocalypse, and others, never fails to silence my parents, and I can really see the pain in their eyes. My father once paged through The Origin of Species and Dawkins's Greatest Show on Earth, and expressed his disappointment at their lack of knowledge on the subject of evolution. We all know that Evolution can only occur within species, he always says.
Who could have thought that a tongue in the cheek comment on facebook could have such unforeseen reactions?
Title: Re: The devil, facebook, Faust and my mother
Post by: Dretlin on September 26, 2010, 12:16:45 PM
Post by: Dretlin on September 26, 2010, 12:16:45 PM
I am sorry to see that the people around you, including your family, react strongly to your Atheism. I completely take that for granted.
Title: Re: The devil, facebook, Faust and my mother
Post by: Whitney on September 26, 2010, 05:05:24 PM
Post by: Whitney on September 26, 2010, 05:05:24 PM
I have had this happen to a couple friends who are outspoken (or at least don't make any attempt to hide) their views about religion on facebook and in real life. They basically ended up loosing most of their home town friends (who even went to far as to remove themselves as facebook friends; which is pretty crappy considering how loose a fb friendship really is) and have had to grow a pretty thick skin and say if you don't love me for who I am then that is your problem, not mine.
I think the only reason I haven't had any problems is that no one in my immediate family seems to think it is their business to tell someone else in the family what they should believe nor do we ever discuss religion except for rare occasion. My extended family doesn't appear to be on facebook; I know some of them would say something but the opportunity for it to come up in an in person conversation is pretty low since I don't see them often.
I think that if it gets to be too much to have to bother with it would not be wrong of you to adjust your privacy settings so that only those who understand you can interact with your posts.
I think the only reason I haven't had any problems is that no one in my immediate family seems to think it is their business to tell someone else in the family what they should believe nor do we ever discuss religion except for rare occasion. My extended family doesn't appear to be on facebook; I know some of them would say something but the opportunity for it to come up in an in person conversation is pretty low since I don't see them often.
I think that if it gets to be too much to have to bother with it would not be wrong of you to adjust your privacy settings so that only those who understand you can interact with your posts.
Title: Re: The devil, facebook, Faust and my mother
Post by: Sophus on September 26, 2010, 08:12:41 PM
Post by: Sophus on September 26, 2010, 08:12:41 PM
The Devil killed 10 people? I thought that number was a goose egg.