Happy Atheist Forum

My fellow good Christian voters, think twice before you vote for Christine O'Donnell! She had confessed to practicing witchcraft!!!!!!1!

QuoteI dabbled into witchcraft -- I never joined a coven. But I did, I did. ... I dabbled into witchcraft. I hung around people who were doing these things. I'm not making this stuff up. I know what they told me they do. . . .
I hung around people who were doing these things. I'm not making this stuff up. I know what they told me they do. One of my first dates with a witch was on a satanic altar, and I didn't know it. I mean, there's little blood there and stuff like that. We went to a movie and then had a little midnight picnic on a satanic altar.

But at least she's not doing anything as evil as those crazy US scientists:

Quote"They are -- they are doing that here in the United States. American scientific companies are cross-breeding humans and animals and coming up with mice with fully functioning human brains. So they're already into this experiment."

And you thought Sarah Palin was as good as it gets.

Well, without mice like that, how would we ever film a sequel to Hitchhiker's Guide?

Witchcraft and "satanic altar" in the same paragraph equals loony.  

O'Donnell is like Palin to me, I'd do either one of them, provided they PROMISED NOT TO SPEAK. I think a Playboy spread with Palin and O'Donnell would be a HUGE seller.

By the way, my wife approves this message.

Quote from: "Martin TK"By the way, my wife approves this message.

You say that as if it mattered.

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Witchcraft and "satanic altar" in the same paragraph equals loony.  :brick: The worst thing of all though, is that she is one of five Tea Party candidates running for Senate who want to outlaw abortions in cases of rape and incest, no matter what.

I'm cool with people being Wiccan, but this woman is a massive hypocrite.

The whole puritan thing doesn't fly anymore. I'll bet my next paycheck the masturbates just as much as the rest of humanity.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"Well, without mice like that, how would we ever film a sequel to Hitchhiker's Guide?

The radio show, t.v. show, books, or movie/s (depends on the series)? .

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Witchcraft and "satanic altar" in the same paragraph equals loony.  :D

That woman... Is she, like, for real..?   oO(And then they say "All life deserves a chance"..! Well, SOME life we'd be better off without)

All of these hardcore, family first conservatives are like this. They have dozens of skeletons in the closet because at one point in their lives they did HUMAN things.

All of these hardcore, family first conservatives are like this. They have dozens of skeletons in the closet because at one point in their lives they did HUMAN things.
[youtube:2nz72j99]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iWRw3oZdg4[/youtube:2nz72j99]

I found her attachment to the word "stuff" rather odd.

Christine O'Donnell is, to put it politely, a fucking nutter.  

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Christine O'Donnell is, to put it politely, a fucking nutter.  :drool

Quote from: "Will"I'm cool with people being Wiccan, but this woman is a massive hypocrite.

The Wiccans are upset with her too because she mentioned blood being on an alter and apparently that wouldn't be the case (?).

Hitler also said:

How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think

I subscribe to that point of view more often than not. Should I maybe get a swastika on my right... Left... Right... Eh... My arm..?

Quote from: "Asmodean"Hitler also said:

How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think

I subscribe to that point of view more often than not. Should I maybe get a swastika on my right... Left... Right... Eh... My arm..?

No, that's one thing Hitler got right.

Hitler was bad but he wasn't pure evil, I think it's silly how people quote things by  hitler and automatically assume it's bad. I could quote Hitler saying world peace and love for all and people will still think it's evil. -_-

Quote from: "Ultima22689"Hitler was bad but he wasn't pure evil, I think it's silly how people quote things by  hitler and automatically assume it's bad. I could quote Hitler saying world peace and love for all and people will still think it's evil. -_-

He might have been "bad", but he was not stupid. Those who disregard anything and everything he might have said just because it was he who said it ought to remember that more often.  

Not to derail but Hitler was smart in some ways, but still very very dumb in others. Should have listened to his military advisors....

God, is she getting dumber? What's scarier is that people applaud this imbecile when she says crazy stuff like this.

Quote from: "url=http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/09/22/christine-odonnell-says-govt-czars-are-unconstitutional-is-she-really-that-stupid/]Pensito Review[/url]"]“Article 1, Section 9 says no title of nobility should granted by the United States, there you go. I would say to President Obama that czar is a title of nobility and therefore unconstitutional.” ~ Christine O'Donnell
- Delaware GOP-tea party candidate Christine O’Donnnell, who appears not to know that “czar” is not an official title or that Reagan had a “drug czar” to oversee Nancy’s pet project, the “war on drugs,” or that George W. Bush had 32 czars on his staff.

There just are no words............  

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QuoteStay up to date with the Christine “X-TEEN” O’Donnell Election Meme Watch.
1. “You can’t masturbate without lust.” / “I’m a young woman in my thirties and I remain chaste.” MTV’s Sex in the 90s, 1996 / MSNBC’s Scarborough Country, 2003
2. “I dabbled into witchcraft. I never joined a coven.” / “One of my first dates with a witch was on a satanic altar.” Politically Incorrect, 1999
3. “American scientific companies are cross-breeding humans and animals and coming up with mice with fully functioning human brains.” Fox News’s The O’Reilly Factor, 2007
4. “You know what, evolution is a myth.” / “Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?” Politically Incorrect, 1998
5. “During the primary, I heard the audible voice of God. He said, ‘Credibility.’” News Journal, 2006

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "Martin TK"By the way, my wife approves this message.

You say that as if it mattered.

It ALWAYS matters what my wife thinks.  I would never say something publically that would embarrass her, so yeah it matters.

And you apparently lost the attempt at humor with the whole approves this message...  

Quote from: "Martin TK"And you apparently lost the attempt at humor with the whole approves this message...  

No, but you missed the tongue-in-cheek implication that you're a filthy pig.

Quote from: "Will"I'm cool with people being Wiccan, but this woman is a massive hypocrite.

The whole puritan thing doesn't fly anymore. I'll bet my next paycheck the masturbates just as much as the rest of humanity.

Wait a minute, Christians aren't allowed to touch "wands".

Quote from: "Ultima22689"Hitler was bad but he wasn't pure evil

Huh?

I think that someone who has signed off on gruesomely killing 6 million people of a particular ethnicity AND in the meantime waging a war that resulted in 20 million causalities embodies absolutely nothing less than pure evil.

Mice with fully formed human braaaaaaaiiiiinnnnnnnnnssss!

Quote from: "deekayfry"

Quote from: "Ultima22689"Hitler was bad but he wasn't pure evil

Huh?

I think that someone who has signed off on gruesomely killing 6 million people of a particular ethnicity AND in the meantime waging a war that resulted in 20 million causalities embodies absolutely nothing less than pure evil.

He loved his dog.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"

Quote from: "deekayfry"

Quote from: "Ultima22689"Hitler was bad but he wasn't pure evil

Huh?

I think that someone who has signed off on gruesomely killing 6 million people of a particular ethnicity AND in the meantime waging a war that resulted in 20 million causalities embodies absolutely nothing less than pure evil.

He loved his dog.

It's hard for me to say he wasn't pure evil but there were times on film when he looked like a normal guy, smiling and laughing. Hitler really loved children too. Well.... German children. Not that his personality makes what he did to the Jews and others any less horrid.

I don't believe any man who ever lived was pure good or pure evil.  Solzhenitsyn once wrote that "the line between good and evil runs down the middle of every man's heart," and goes on to point out that through a man's life he may cross to one side or the other on many occasions; and that our sum judgment of any particular person is really a statement on which side of that line the person spent most of his or her time.

While my answer above was a touch trolllish, my point isn't.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"I don't believe any man who ever lived was pure good or pure evil.  Solzhenitsyn once wrote that "the line between good and evil runs down the middle of every man's heart," and goes on to point out that through a man's life he may cross to one side or the other on many occasions; and that our sum judgment of any particular person is really a statement on which side of that line the person spent most of his or her time.

While my answer above was a touch trolllish, my point isn't.

It's not trollish.  It is an opinion.

Personally, I have absolutely no sympathy nor would I point out any simple niceties of a person who wantonly decimated many generations of people.

Hitler may have loved German children, but he had 1.5 million children incinerated.
He may have laughed and smiled, but there are hundreds of photos and videos of people who show utter despair, grief, and pain.

Again, it is a philosophical debate as to what a person has contained within herself or himself how much or how little good or evil they have.  Yet, philosophy is completely useless to those who suffered at Hitler's hands and at the hands of his regime.

By the way, Hitler was by no means the exclusive member of the Pure Evil Dictator club.

Quote from: "deekayfry"Personally, I have absolutely no sympathy nor would I point out any simple niceties of a person who wantonly decimated many generations of people.

I don't normally do so, but it's not pure evil if he has a good side too.

QuoteHitler may have loved German children, but he had 1.5 million children incinerated.
He may have laughed and smiled, but there are hundreds of photos and videos of people who show utter despair, grief, and pain.

Yes, I'm well aware of these facts.  

QuoteAgain, it is a philosophical debate as to what a person has contained within herself or himself how much or how little good or evil they have.  Yet, philosophy is completely useless to those who suffered at Hitler's hands and at the hands of his regime.

I don't see it so much philosophical as linguistic.  "Pure" has a specific meaning, and it isn't "mostly".

You know, no matter how outraged or pleased you might be at/with someone's actions, you still should, in the name of objectivity, try to see the big picture.

Thus, I'm with Thump on this Hitler issue, be it a linguistic or a philosophical one.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"I don't normally do so, but it's not pure evil if he has a good side too.

I think this is the crux of the pure evil/Hitler argument.  Or at least, when I think of "pure evil" I think of someone who is nothing but evil.  I don't personally believe in pure evil or pure good, and I think the fact that Hitler did have earnest love and compassion for some things in life is proof that he wasn't pure evil.  

Also, I don't know I Hitler is really the best example to use when discussing the possibility of pure evil anyway.  There is a bit of a difference between killing lots of people and being a witness to it versus killing that many people via military orders where you never actually see the corpses/starving prisoners/etc.  I'm not too clear on Hitler's personal involvement with his holocaust camps, but I've never heard any reports that Hitler himself was present and himself gassing people.  I think that it was probably pretty easy for a man like Hitler - delusional and egocentric as he was - to distance himself from the mass murders he ordered.  

I think a far more compelling argument for pure evil could be made with a man like Vlad Tepes, who not only ordered mass killings via a horribly torturous death of impalement, but was present for them and by some accounts delighted in the practice.

Quote from: "Asmodean"You know, no matter how outraged or pleased you might be at/with someone's actions, you still should, in the name of objectivity, try to see the big picture.

Thus, I'm with Thump on this Hitler issue, be it a linguistic or a philosophical one.

We can agree to disagree, then, right?  :headbang:

Quote from: "deekayfry"We are derailing the topic!!!    

O'Donnell, Hitler, I don't see teh derail.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "Martin TK"And you apparently lost the attempt at humor with the whole approves this message...  :raised:

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "deekayfry"We are derailing the topic!!!    :P

Quote from: "deekayfry"

Quote from: "Asmodean"You know, no matter how outraged or pleased you might be at/with someone's actions, you still should, in the name of objectivity, try to see the big picture.

Thus, I'm with Thump on this Hitler issue, be it a linguistic or a philosophical one.

We can agree to disagree, then, right?  :headbang:

Very happy to agree to disagree, and sorry to spin out a trope. but I'm kinda anal about words and meanings and such, so yeah.  Hitler was a dick, but not as big a dick as my 9th grade PE coach.

Quote from: "Martin TK"Really, a filthy pig?  Well thankfully, YOUR opinion of me isn't worth a whole lot.  

I don't have an opinion of you.  'Twas a sarcastic comment.

QuoteMy wife gets the joke even if you don't which frankly, I don't give a damn if you do or don't.  Peace.

I did.  One bad joke deserves another.  Since the jokes were bad, I guess I win.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "Martin TK"Really, a filthy pig?  Well thankfully, YOUR opinion of me isn't worth a whole lot.  

I don't have an opinion of you.  'Twas a sarcastic comment.

QuoteMy wife gets the joke even if you don't which frankly, I don't give a damn if you do or don't.  Peace.

I did.  One bad joke deserves another.  Since the jokes were bad, I guess I win.

Sure you win, since you were apparently the only one "playing" since I don't recall directing my comments to anyone in particular.  Peace.

Jats will join in briefly seeing as someone mentioned Hitler then, and who was enjoying this thread tremendously, fascinated by the rise of The Tea Party, a glimpse of new beginnings for America...

Part of an eulogy from Adolf Hitler's maid reads 'he was a charming man, someone who was only ever nice to me, a great boss to work for. You can say what you like, but he was a good man to us' and well now I can forgive a few faults, a different point of view, but, as much say, as I like my next door neighbour, if I found out she had killed x million Jews (I'm not debating the numbers), it wouldn't matter to me at how charming, pleasant, attractive, or funny she was, if she was kind to her mum even, and wore sensible shoes, though it's clear some others would have different loyalties, maybe they are right, these loyal maids, and I am wrong, let bygones be bygones and all that, perhaps, maybe we should let Gary Glitter join the gang here, he was probably framed anyway, and didn't he sing such lovely songs..."

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Quote from: "Jats"Jats will join in briefly seeing as someone mentioned Hitler then, and who was enjoying this thread tremendously, fascinated by the rise of The Tea Party, a glimpse of new beginnings for America...

Part of an eulogy from Adolf Hitler's maid reads 'he was a charming man, someone who was only ever nice to me, a great boss to work for. You can say what you like, but he was a good man to us' and well now I can forgive a few faults, a different point of view, but, as much say, as I like my next door neighbour, if I found out she had killed x million Jews (I'm not debating the numbers), it wouldn't matter to me at how charming, pleasant, attractive, or funny she was, if she was kind to her mum even, and wore sensible shoes, though it's clear some others would have different loyalties, maybe they are right, these loyal maids, and I am wrong, let bygones be bygones and all that, perhaps, maybe we should let Gary Glitter join the gang here, he was probably framed anyway, and didn't he sing such lovely songs..."

Yeah, I'm pretty sure no one here is arguing that Hitler is a good man, but thanks.

Binary morality is so charming.

Not to derail the derail,  Google exists?

It adds to the irony that this is the woman who said you should never ever lie even if Hitler's at the door and you're hiding Anne Frank in the attic. Don't lie to save a life, but go for it if it helps you get elected!

She's a joke.  I mean, that's pretty obvious at this point right?  Please?  

Quote from: "pinkocommie"She's a joke.  I mean, that's pretty obvious at this point right?  Please?  

But surely we can poke at an easy target, right?  I mean, it's Wednesday night; there ain't much to do!

(Plus, shooting at hypocrites is fun.)

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"

Quote from: "pinkocommie"She's a joke.  I mean, that's pretty obvious at this point right?  Please?   :pop:

Quote from: "pinkocommie"

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"

Quote from: "pinkocommie"She's a joke.  I mean, that's pretty obvious at this point right?  Please?   :pop:

I look forward to her being caught fapping.

Christine O'Donnell is you!

[youtube:1cm6vk1q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGGAgljengs[/youtube:1cm6vk1q]

I didn't know that I knew about China's secret plot to take over the US (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/10/audio_of_christine_odonnell_cl.html).

Quote from: "Sophus"Christine O'Donnell is you!
[...]
I didn't know that I knew about China's secret plot to take over the US (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/10/audio_of_christine_odonnell_cl.html).

Oh man! How could I let myself get so stupid?

If she's going to do what I'd do in Washington, then I doubt anyone will elect her.

Quote from: "Sophus"Christine O'Donnell is you!

[youtube:1zt41vti]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGGAgljengs[/youtube:1zt41vti]

I didn't know that I knew about China's secret plot to take over the US (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/10/audio_of_christine_odonnell_cl.html).

From her own mouth she is me. Which means I am her. I can now say unabashedly that I am a complete freak job, crazy lady, fear monger who shouldn't be elected to a condo board let alone be elected to one of the highest positions in the land. If you care about America don't vote for me, Christine O'Donnell. I am Christine O'Donnell (aparently) and I approve this message.

Bleh...I wish we could have selective democracy.

She, Sara Palin and myself.  Fap time.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"She, Sara Palin and myself.  Fap time.

Don't dip your pen in the company inl... Never know where that inkwell has been to  :eek2: )

Quote from: "PoopShoot"She, Sara Palin and myself.  Fap time.

So...you're sexually attracted to retarded people?

So since we're on the subject of fapping, anyone want to link amateur youtube videos that they fap to? This one is my personal favorite. I'd vote for her before i'd vote for Christine O'Donnell.

[youtube:2hcwkmcj]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wanq8yognwU[/youtube:2hcwkmcj]

Okay, this parody of her ad is too good.

[youtube:1dtpwjgs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8ABXZcfZCQ[/youtube:1dtpwjgs]

Quote from: "pinkocommie"So...you're sexually attracted to retarded people?

Intelligence doesn't even factor in.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "pinkocommie"So...you're sexually attracted to retarded people?

Intelligence doesn't even factor in.

... on either end of the tool?

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "pinkocommie"So...you're sexually attracted to retarded people?

Intelligence doesn't even factor in.

... on either end of the tool?

...Not when both ends are used for the same purpose, methink..?  

It's pretty straightforward: the retarded ones don't get post-coital conversation.

Klassy.

Oh yeah, I'm a member of the Klassy Kids Klub.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"Oh yeah, I'm a member of the Klassy Kids Klub.

Can you has a pointy hat too, yes?  

In her debate with Coons she asks sarcastically "where is 'separation of church and state' in the Constitution?" The crowd erupts with laughter and she smiles because she is both stupid and oblivious apparently thinking that they're laughing at Coons. This woman is an embarrassment.

[youtube:1mjbm9sd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYUvDjLPcwY[/youtube:1mjbm9sd]

I think Howard Finnman (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-tv/howard-fineman-christine-odonnell-constitution_b_769044.html) said it best, "What's really killing here, what's damning here, is that the tea party is run in the name of rights and freedom. And all of those rights and freedoms are enshrined in the very amendments that she seems totally ignorant of." People just hear that word Constitution and go crazy for it, even if they haven't read the first line of the first Amendment.  

:|

And no offense to anyone, but I'll never understand how you find this face attractive

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Quote from: "Cite134"that religion deserves to be taught in public school JUST like any other subject.

If it were like any other subject then I would agree. I think they should teach the facts about world religions. But it's hard to come by anything in Creationism that isn't pure nonsense that can't be found in Sunday school.

Quote from: "Sophus"If it were like any other subject then I would agree. I think they should teach the facts about world religions. But it's hard to come by anything in Creationism that isn't pure nonsense that can't be found in Sunday school.

Agreed.

I'd tap this:

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It's kind of fun to watch her try and dance her way out of this one (http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpps/news/odonnell-questions-constitution-separation-of-church-and-state-dpgonc-20101019-fc_10181901).

QuoteO'Donnell campaign manager Matt Moran released a statement Tuesday further reaffirming her contention that the first amendment does not explicitly call for the separation of church and state.

“Christine O’Donnell was not questioning the concept of separation of church and state as subsequently established by the courts," Moran said.

"She simply made the point that the phrase appears nowhere in the Constitution. It was in fact Chris Coons who demonstrated his Constitutional ignorance when he could not name the five freedoms contained in the First Amendment.”

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QuoteO'Donnell campaign manager Matt Moran released a statement Tuesday further reaffirming her contention that the first amendment does not explicitly call for the separation of church and state.

“Christine O’Donnell was not questioning the concept of separation of church and state as subsequently established by the courts," Moran said.

"She simply made the point that the phrase appears nowhere in the Constitution. It was in fact Chris Coons who demonstrated his Constitutional ignorance when he could not name the five freedoms contained in the First Amendment.”

That's like a driver saying: "The stop sign does not say press on the brake. Nowhere on the red stop sign does it say press on the brake. Therefore, the cop did an ignorant thing by writing me a ticket."  

Quote from: "Cite134"

QuoteO'Donnell campaign manager Matt Moran released a statement Tuesday further reaffirming her contention that the first amendment does not explicitly call for the separation of church and state.

“Christine O’Donnell was not questioning the concept of separation of church and state as subsequently established by the courts," Moran said.

"She simply made the point that the phrase appears nowhere in the Constitution. It was in fact Chris Coons who demonstrated his Constitutional ignorance when he could not name the five freedoms contained in the First Amendment.”

That's like a driver saying: "The stop sign does not say press on the brake. Nowhere on the red stop sign does it say press on the brake. Therefore, the cop did an ignorant thing by writing me a ticket."  

Ha! I like that analogy. Not only that but a closer look at the audio shows she really didn't know what Coons was talking about:

O'Donnell: Let me just clarify: You're telling me that the separation of church and state is found in the First Amendment?
Coons: Government shall make no establishment of religion.
O'Donnell: That's in the First Amendment?

I may be disgusted with religion being on the Republican platform, but I see Obama and the Democrats as the greater evil.

You're fine with a dolt like this running for office?  She appears to be dumber than a pile of bricks.

You need to drop allegiance to party, and take up allegiance to thinking, no matter which party it comes from.

Back to the "O'Donnell is a Witch" bit.  She's not.  She never has been.  I have Wiccan friends and, to understand them better, I've read a bit about Wicca.  A group whose philosophy revolves around the statement of "Do as you will so long as it harms no one" is in no way associated with bloody altars.  I mean, I still think it's all made up, just like any religion, but its followers don't practice Satanic rites or blood sacrifices.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"but its followers don't practice Satanic rites or blood sacrifices.

...Even most Satanists don't practice Satanic rites or blood sacrifices  

Quote from: "Will"I'm cool with people being Wiccan, but this woman is a massive hypocrite.

The whole puritan thing doesn't fly anymore. I'll bet my next paycheck the masturbates just as much as the rest of humanity.

And for the record, Wicca is not satanic. It's the worshiping of mother nature. Only religious nut jobs would consider anything not of their religion as "Satanic". This is a typical fear mongering tool used in the mechanics of brainwashing people into following them. Other than this, I wouldn't vote for her or Palin.

It's possible she made it up. But then again, she was in high school and I'm sure there are a few idiot high schoolers who have the same misconception about witchcraft/Satanism/whatever.... so maybe they really did have sacrifices.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"You're fine with a dolt like this running for office?  She appears to be dumber than a pile of bricks.

You need to drop allegiance to party, and take up allegiance to thinking, no matter which party it comes from.

When it comes to being a member of Congress, poor policy is much worse than being intellectually bankrupt.  So O'Donnell, for me, is the lesser evil.

The lesser of the evils? If O'Donnell had it her way America would be a theocracy. She doesn't even know the first line of the First Amendment which she claims to be a scholar on, in spite of the fact that the two colleges she has claimed to have attended has said, "umm... nope. You never went here." She even used donated money to her campaign for personal reasons. She is both intellectually and morally bankrupt.

Quote from: "Sophus"The lesser of the evils? If O'Donnell had it her way America would be a theocracy. She doesn't even know the first line of the First Amendment which she claims to be a scholar on, in spite of the fact that the two colleges she has claimed to have attended has said, "umm... nope. You never went here." She even used donated money to her campaign for personal reasons. She is both intellectually and morally bankrupt.

I'm in total agreement with this statement. Both Palin and that tool O'Donnell would have you living in a theocracy.

Quote from: "jduster"

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"You're fine with a dolt like this running for office?  She appears to be dumber than a pile of bricks.

You need to drop allegiance to party, and take up allegiance to thinking, no matter which party it comes from.

When it comes to being a member of Congress, poor policy is much worse than being intellectually bankrupt.  So O'Donnell, for me, is the lesser evil.

And where does policy come from if not brains?

They would not succeed in their attempts to make this country a theocracy, so I am not worried about them.

It is Obama and the Democrats that will destroy this country if left unchallenged.

I don't like O'Donnell and Palin; they disgust me.  Unfortunately, the other options are worse.

Quote from: "jduster"They would not succeed in their attempts to make this country a theocracy, so I am not worried about them.

It is Obama and the Democrats that will destroy this country if left unchallenged.

I don't like O'Donnell and Palin; they disgust me.  Unfortunately, the other options are worse.

How have they destroyed this country?  If Obama was able to get his way we'd have been much better off.  But the anonymous blocks and filibusters from the right have derailed a lot of the positive things he's tried to do.  The only way anything gets through congress is if enormous compromises are made.  It's not like Obama started at a 0 balance...he got handed the largest deficit of any president in history.

Quote from: "jduster"They would not succeed in their attempts to make this country a theocracy, so I am not worried about them.

It is Obama and the Democrats that will destroy this country if left unchallenged.

I don't like O'Donnell and Palin; they disgust me.  Unfortunately, the other options are worse.

That's a false premise giving that it was destroyed before he ever got into office. However, he made little improvements to the situation. Now imagine if that idiot Palin were to get into office. If you are looking for a total collapse of this economy, that is the kind of idiot you vote into office. Basing your vote for these morons because you dislike the Dems or Obama is foolish and a prime example why this country needs a better education system.

To put this bluntly, you don't vote for people that would even attempt to turn this country into a theocracy. And do realize that there is very little distinction between what is a Democrat and what is a Republican. They even like to swap what they stand for at whim should it be in their favor. It's funny how many voters don't sit back and take the time to understand the psychological game being played out.

This country has been collapsing for the last 50 years. And you do realize that the root to your economic problems is yourself. You control demand to which ultimately controls the economy. When is the last time you invoked the power of controlling your power of demand and stopped purchasing cheap slave labor products made in foreign countries like China? You had the power to demand that in order for them to sell to you they have to hire you! The strongest economy is one that has all the jobs! A service industry in which you helped create by the mindless use of your power of demand is now the weakest possible economy you could possibly have.

So now you have little protection from external influences since your entire economy rests on the world market, and your buying of cheap foreign made products. If there is a market crash you have little to nothing to support yourself with.  Makes you wonder why cities like Boston are doing well while many other cities are collapsing economically. Boston is heavily based on locally owned businesses, and has a mass transit system. Jobs here are available.

The moral is that you can't blame the government for your own epic failures. You do dig your own holes. And for you to expect your government to magically fix them for you only show's exactly where this country is headed, and that is into the ground.

I have to disagree with The Jackel.

Between a lesser evil and a greater one, I would always pick the lesser one, as I am a pragmatist.  

With regards to education, conservatives believe that parents know what is best for their children.  Democrats believe that bureaucrats know what is best for children.  The public education system is broken, and Obama's trying the same tax-and-spend approach which has failed to fix it.  There needs to be privatization, free vouchers for all parents to choose what school their children goes to, and it should be made easier to homeschool.  A child's education should be based on their aspirations, abilities, and needs; not their zip code.

On this issue of free trade, you harbor the fallacious belief of "buying foreign goods ships jobs overseas".  Essentially, you are advocating protectionism; a failed policy.  For example, putting barriers up to prevent people from buying certain products for less money overseas would benefit the companies in the U.S. that sell that product.  Of course, it hurts everybody else.  Everybody else who needs that product has to spend more money.

It is not too late to cancel Obamacare.

Quote from: "jduster"With regards to education, conservatives believe that parents know what is best for their children.  Democrats believe that bureaucrats know what is best for children.  The public education system is broken, and Obama's trying the same tax-and-spend approach which has failed to fix it.  There needs to be privatization, free vouchers for all parents to choose what school their children goes to, and it should be made easier to homeschool.  A child's education should be based on their aspirations, abilities, and needs; not their zip code.

I don't agree with the blanket statements that conservatives believe parents know what is best for children or that Democrats believe bureaucrats know what is best for children, is there some kind of statistical study that shows this or are these just baseless speculations?

Why does there need to be privatization of public schools?

Quote from: "jduster"On this issue of free trade, you harbor the fallacious belief of "buying foreign goods ships jobs overseas".  Essentially, you are advocating protectionism; a failed policy.  For example, putting barriers up to prevent people from buying certain products for less money overseas would benefit the companies in the U.S. that sell that product.  Of course, it hurts everybody else.  Everybody else who needs that product has to spend more money.

Before you move on from merely stating that someone is using a fallacy, I think you should explain what is fallacious about their logic. Also it doesn't even look like you read TheJackel's post when you start talking about putting up barriers. It would be nice if you could respond to the points TheJackel made in the interest of making this discussion more useful to everyone.

Quote from: "jduster"I have to disagree with The Jackel.

Between a lesser evil and a greater one, I would always pick the lesser one, as I am a pragmatist.  

With regards to education, conservatives believe that parents know what is best for their children.  Democrats believe that bureaucrats know what is best for children.  The public education system is broken, and Obama's trying the same tax-and-spend approach which has failed to fix it.  There needs to be privatization, free vouchers for all parents to choose what school their children goes to, and it should be made easier to homeschool.  A child's education should be based on their aspirations, abilities, and needs; not their zip code.

On this issue of free trade, you harbor the fallacious belief of "buying foreign goods ships jobs overseas".  Essentially, you are advocating protectionism; a failed policy.  For example, putting barriers up to prevent people from buying certain products for less money overseas would benefit the companies in the U.S. that sell that product.  Of course, it hurts everybody else.  Everybody else who needs that product has to spend more money.

It is not too late to cancel Obamacare.

Firstly, now where does it state that American's have to actually vote for anyone on the Ballot vs protest and demand to have new candidates. Your blind acceptance of lesser evil show's your willingness to accept an evil. So when things go badly, you can only blame yourself. However, I suspect one will deflect and blame the government to which had been elected. Feel free and be dumb enough to vote corruption into office, but don't come crying and blaming the government when you so freely allowed it and installed it.  

On Free trade, Sorry but you are entirely incorrect. Protectionism you are referring to states that you only buy from American Companies. This is not the point I was making. Controlling the demand to be hired in order to be sold to is yes a form of protectionism, but not in the sense you are thinking of. That is protecting your Jobs vs boycotting foreign companies business. Here you can still have a free open market of foreign and local companies, but you demand them to hire you in order for you to consider their products as purchasable products. This also doesn't state that the entire process of making and selling such products should solely be manufactured here but rather ensure that we are at least a significant part of that process. This creates what you call a self-sustained economy to which is far more protected from outside influences than that of any other kind of economy. It also allows you to control prices more, and to stabilize inflation. Protectionism isn't a bad idea, it's a really smart idea as long as you know how to apply it.

You must realize that controlling demand is the most powerful tool in controlling the health of your economy. And many people don't get it, and you wonder why they blame the Government for everything while ignoring the root cause to which is themselves. You almost seem to advocate that we should not protect our economy or jobs. Remember that when we owe China more money that we could ever repay, or when you lose your job.  

On the American Education system, It's been broken long before Obama ever reached office. Again you are reaching for a false premise in a straw man argument. The US education system has been in the crapper regardless of what party has been in office.
And sorry, I see DEMS and REPUBS trying to dictate what they think is best for your children. Where did you get that logical fallacy of yours from? And in regards to homeschooling, the parents actually need to be educated for that to work. Kind of hard to do when that the public school system they learned from was a complete mess and underfunded.

It seems that priorities are skewed greatly here. If DEMS or REPUBS did anything useful, our public school system wouldn't be as pathetic as it is now. And now that America is literally bankrupt by both Republicans, Democrats, and ourselves it's only going to get worse if we don't step back and realize what our priorities are. Especially if you keep voting such obvious morons into office.

Quote from: "jduster"I have to disagree with The Jackel.

Between a lesser evil and a greater one, I would always pick the lesser one, as I am a pragmatist.  

With regards to education, conservatives believe that parents know what is best for their children.  Democrats believe that bureaucrats know what is best for children.  The public education system is broken, and Obama's trying the same tax-and-spend approach which has failed to fix it.  There needs to be privatization, free vouchers for all parents to choose what school their children goes to, and it should be made easier to homeschool.  A child's education should be based on their aspirations, abilities, and needs; not their zip code.

On this issue of free trade, you harbor the fallacious belief of "buying foreign goods ships jobs overseas".  Essentially, you are advocating protectionism; a failed policy.  For example, putting barriers up to prevent people from buying certain products for less money overseas would benefit the companies in the U.S. that sell that product.  Of course, it hurts everybody else.  Everybody else who needs that product has to spend more money.

It is not too late to cancel Obamacare.

Yes, let's privatize the school system, because that has worked so well for the prison and hospital systems.  
In the end, a few get filthy rich and the majority suffer.
Homeschooling is dangerous in the case of new earth creationists, of which there are already millions unfortunately.  You create a new generation of ignorant thoroughly uneducated bigots.
The education system is broken because that is usually the first area to suffer when public services need to be cut.  Totally backwards.  Teachers are like commercial airline pilots.  They get paid garbage salaries because they love what they do, and the upper management depends on that fact.
Bottom line though is exactly what Obama has been talking about for his entire career...education starts in the home.   It is up to the parents to prepare their child for the educational system, and keep them motivated throughout their academic career.  Obama believes it is up to us, and he's right.

Let's take a closer look at THE EVILS (http://www.whitehouse.gov/healthreform) Obamacare has been up to!

Quote from: "jduster"I have to disagree with The Jackel.

Between a lesser evil and a greater one, I would always pick the lesser one, as I am a pragmatist.  

With regards to education, conservatives believe that parents know what is best for their children.  Democrats believe that bureaucrats know what is best for children.  The public education system is broken, and Obama's trying the same tax-and-spend approach which has failed to fix it.  There needs to be privatization, free vouchers for all parents to choose what school their children goes to, and it should be made easier to homeschool.  A child's education should be based on their aspirations, abilities, and needs; not their zip code.

In addition to the points raised above about these blanket statements, I'd also like to point out that you are here proposing a new government bureaucracy -- the one that would regulate the disbursement of vouchers and examine the schools for fitness.  Unless, of course, you don't think they ought to be examined.

QuoteOn this issue of free trade, you harbor the fallacious belief of "buying foreign goods ships jobs overseas".  Essentially, you are advocating protectionism; a failed policy.  For example, putting barriers up to prevent people from buying certain products for less money overseas would benefit the companies in the U.S. that sell that product.  Of course, it hurts everybody else.  Everybody else who needs that product has to spend more money.

The true solution to resolve the shipment of jobs overseas is to tax the shit out of companies that do it.  Remove their loopholes, and any incentives they may have garnered in other fields, if they've been found to have closed an American plant and replaced it with a foreign plant.

QuoteIt is not too late to cancel Obamacare.

I'm not so sure that that is wise.  Universal (or near-universal) health care benefits everyone in a society.  Even from the view of self-interest, it is in your interest to avoid the proliferation of, say, AB-resistant tuberculosis, or to assist the pre-diabetic in avoiding the full-blown disease (and thereby avoiding disability-benefit payouts for life).

Finally, granting all people health care is simply the humane thing to do, and I don't mind putting my money where my mouth is on that issue.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"

Quote from: "jduster"I have to disagree with The Jackel.

Between a lesser evil and a greater one, I would always pick the lesser one, as I am a pragmatist.  

With regards to education, conservatives believe that parents know what is best for their children.  Democrats believe that bureaucrats know what is best for children.  The public education system is broken, and Obama's trying the same tax-and-spend approach which has failed to fix it.  There needs to be privatization, free vouchers for all parents to choose what school their children goes to, and it should be made easier to homeschool.  A child's education should be based on their aspirations, abilities, and needs; not their zip code.

In addition to the points raised above about these blanket statements, I'd also like to point out that you are here proposing a new government bureaucracy -- the one that would regulate the disbursement of vouchers and examine the schools for fitness.  Unless, of course, you don't think they ought to be examined.

QuoteOn this issue of free trade, you harbor the fallacious belief of "buying foreign goods ships jobs overseas".  Essentially, you are advocating protectionism; a failed policy.  For example, putting barriers up to prevent people from buying certain products for less money overseas would benefit the companies in the U.S. that sell that product.  Of course, it hurts everybody else.  Everybody else who needs that product has to spend more money.

The true solution to resolve the shipment of jobs overseas is to tax the shit out of companies that do it.  Remove their loopholes, and any incentives they may have garnered in other fields, if they've been found to have closed an American plant and replaced it with a foreign plant.

QuoteIt is not too late to cancel Obamacare.

I'm not so sure that that is wise.  Universal (or near-universal) health care benefits everyone in a society.  Even from the view of self-interest, it is in your interest to avoid the proliferation of, say, AB-resistant tuberculosis, or to assist the pre-diabetic in avoiding the full-blown disease (and thereby avoiding disability-benefit payouts for life).

Finally, granting all people health care is simply the humane thing to do, and I don't mind putting my money where my mouth is on that issue.

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