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Color me surprised!

http://news.oneindia.in/2010/09/17/hind ... eists.html (http://news.oneindia.in/2010/09/17/hindusdenounce-pope-for-being-offensive-toatheists.html)

QuoteZed, who is President of Universal Society of Hinduism, further said that although Pope frequently talked about right to religious freedom, cooperation of the human family, truly universal human community, etc., but in this speech, he apparently condemned the beliefs of a considerable chunk of world population called atheists. Who were we as human beings to judge publicly that other humans' beliefs different than us were wrong?

QuoteIn his encyclical "Caritas in Veritate" (Charity in Truth) issued in Rome last year, Pope was also highly critical of atheists and humanists: "...ideological rejection of God and an atheism of indifference, oblivious to the Creator and at risk of becoming equally oblivious to human values, constitute some of the chief obstacles to development today. A humanism which excludes God is an inhuman humanism." This encyclical letter is considered the highest form of papal teaching.

Someone is making friends and someone is vilifying.
Well that's what popes do.
I hope there are many Hindus like Mr Zed, he sounds cool.  

QuoteIn his encyclical "Caritas in Veritate" (Charity in Truth) issued in Rome last year, Pope was also highly critical of atheists and humanists: "...ideological rejection of God and an atheism of indifference, oblivious to the Creator and at risk of becoming equally oblivious to human values, constitute some of the chief obstacles to development today. A humanism which excludes God is an inhuman humanism." This encyclical letter is considered the highest form of papal teaching.

Is the pope trolling?

Thanks, Hindus. You're alright in my book.  

I recently read where someone had pointed out that Hindus are already a step ahead of Christians because they don't wake people up at 8 am on Saturday to tell them about Brahma.

LUL.  The Pope that was in the Hitler Youth is trying to blame atheism for the actions of the Nazis?  Yeah, okay.  Because Hitler was raised Catholic.  Fail Pope is fail.

The Hindus though, they're alright.

Quote from: "philosoraptor"LUL.  The Pope that was in the Hitler Youth is trying to blame atheism for the actions of the Nazis?

To play [strike:1au4h002]Devil's[/strike:1au4h002] God's Advocate, wasn't that mandatory and didn't he also find a way to get out of going to the meetings?

Quote from: "Sophus"

Quote from: "philosoraptor"LUL.  The Pope that was in the Hitler Youth is trying to blame atheism for the actions of the Nazis?

To play [strike:1r2n9tus]Devil's[/strike:1r2n9tus] God's Advocate, wasn't that mandatory and didn't he also find a way to get out of going to the meetings?

What's funny is that, in looking up source material to add to this discussion, I came across a Sunday Times article (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article382076.ece) which claims Ratty served in an AA unit set up to defend a BMW aeroengine plant near Dachau, in Eisenach.  It reports that he "didn't fire a shot".  Maybe he had the right days off, because a quick flip through google shows that the 8th AF bombed the shit out of that plant at least three different occasions.

I can't find hard numbers, but at that stage of the war (Jul 44 -- Mar 45) the average heavy bomber raid put up 600 bombers carrying between 1200-1500 tons of bombs.  It's pretty hard to believe he wasn't made to do his duty.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"

Quote from: "Sophus"

Quote from: "philosoraptor"LUL.  The Pope that was in the Hitler Youth is trying to blame atheism for the actions of the Nazis?

To play [strike:3tj44dp0]Devil's[/strike:3tj44dp0] God's Advocate, wasn't that mandatory and didn't he also find a way to get out of going to the meetings?

What's funny is that, in looking up source material to add to this discussion, I came across a Sunday Times article (//http) which claims Ratty served in an AA unit set up to defend a BMW aeroengine plant near Dachau, in Eisenach.  It reports that he "didn't fire a shot".  Maybe he had the right days off, because a quick flip through google shows that the 8th AF bombed the shit out of that plant at least three different occasions.

I can't find hard numbers, but at that stage of the war (Jul 44 -- Mar 45) the average heavy bomber raid put up 600 bombers carrying between 1200-1500 tons of bombs.  It's pretty hard to believe he wasn't made to do his duty.

That's interesting. Apparently, not only that but "Ratzinger has insisted he never took part in combat or fired a shot â€" adding that his gun was not even loaded â€"" Why on earth would his gun never be loaded?

Quote from: "Sophus"That's interesting. Apparently, not only that but "Ratzinger has insisted he never took part in combat or fired a shot â€" adding that his gun was not even loaded â€"" Why on earth would his gun never be loaded?

Perhaps he was a conscientious objector?  I'm sure the regime would've respected such a stand, and posted him to a [strike:1ot985bq]punishment battalion[/strike:1ot985bq] border post at the Brenner Pass.

Quote from: "Sophus"

Quote from: "philosoraptor"LUL.  The Pope that was in the Hitler Youth is trying to blame atheism for the actions of the Nazis?

To play [strike:1w8jf54o]Devil's[/strike:1w8jf54o] God's Advocate, wasn't that mandatory and didn't he also find a way to get out of going to the meetings?

Supposedly.  Although Catholic (youth) groups were one of the few that were not dissolved when Hitler took power because the Vatican had a special agreement with the Nazi government.  I don't see any mention of Ratzinger having belonged to Catholic youth groups in any of the bio stuff I searched, just that he supposedly refused to attend Hitler Youth meetings.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't think the Catholic Church is above editing certain information about what Ratzinger did or did not participate in as a member of the Hitler Youth or the German military.

Quote from: "Velma"Color me surprised!

http://news.oneindia.in/2010/09/17/hind ... eists.html (http://news.oneindia.in/2010/09/17/hindusdenounce-pope-for-being-offensive-toatheists.html)

Didn't see that coming!

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"Is the pope trolling?

By the look on his face and the nazi-greeting way of holding his hand while waving to the crowds... Yeah, he probably is  

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages18.fotki.com%2Fv60%2Fphotos%2F8%2F892548%2F6145789%2Fpope_troll-vi.jpg&hash=526974ae1ade04d5031410d85c5025f0377ad71c)

When Ratzinger was 11 years old he had to join the Hitler Jugend in 1938. This was mandatory for all kids. When he was 18 years old (the war was nearly over), he deserted the army. I don't like the guy either, but I wouldn't call him a Nazi.

Where did you get that information from Tom? As someone said earlier, I would not put it past the church to falsify the past of it's leader, after all, we know they have no problem with covering things up.

Quote from: "Tom62"When Ratzinger was 11 years old he had to join the Hitler Jugend in 1938. This was mandatory for all kids. When he was 18 years old (the war was nearly over), he deserted the army. I don't like the guy either, but I wouldn't call him a Nazi.

I agree, but still... having been in the Hitler Youth he should know better than anyone that Hitler was not an atheist. He knows he's telling a damned lie. It seems Ratzinger is so terrified of having anything negative equated with the Catholic church. That's why he's trying to cover up the pedo priests and that's why he's trying to cover up the fact that Hitler was a Roman Catholic.

Quote from: "SSY"Where did you get that information from Tom? As someone said earlier, I would not put it past the church to falsify the past of it's leader, after all, we know they have no problem with covering things up.

It came from Ratzinger's own book "Aus meinem Leben (1927-1977)". The first part is absolutely true. In December 1936, a law was put in place that all children had to join the Hitler-Jugend. I didn't find any sources about whether or not he deserted from the army in 1945, but I give him the benefit of the doubt.

Quote from: "Tom62"

Quote from: "SSY"Where did you get that information from Tom? As someone said earlier, I would not put it past the church to falsify the past of it's leader, after all, we know they have no problem with covering things up.

It came from Ratzinger's own book "Aus meinem Leben (1927-1977)". The first part is absolutely true. In December 1936, a law was put in place that all children had to join the Hitler-Jugend. I didn't find any sources about whether or not he deserted from the army in 1945, but I give him the benefit of the doubt.

The other day, BBC news reported that he deserted the army.

The law regarding the mandatory joining of the Hitler Youth is certainly true, however, a person's autobiography isn't exactly an unbiased source of information about their life.  

Did you guys know I cured cancer?  True story.  I'm telling you myself.  

Quote from: "Tom62"When Ratzinger was 11 years old he had to join the Hitler Jugend in 1938. This was mandatory for all kids. When he was 18 years old (the war was nearly over), he deserted the army. I don't like the guy either, but I wouldn't call him a Nazi.

Actually, mandatory signup was decreed in 1941, when Ratty was 14,  according to this source (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/news/world/article382076.ece). You're right that it was compulsory.  You're wrong in these details.

Additionally, I don't doubt he deserted.  Aside from what I looked into above [which may or may not be accurate, as Philosoraptor points out in her comment on Vatican accuracy], desertion in the Wehrmacht in 1945 was rather like fleas in Europe during the Plague.  However, desertion does not an anti-Nazi make.  Desertion in that timeframe rose to the very highest levels of government.  We ought not take the desertion of a youngling to signify anything more that the urge to survive.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"

Quote from: "Tom62"When Ratzinger was 11 years old he had to join the Hitler Jugend in 1938. This was mandatory for all kids. When he was 18 years old (the war was nearly over), he deserted the army. I don't like the guy either, but I wouldn't call him a Nazi.

Actually, mandatory signup was decreed in 1941, when Ratty was 14,  according to this source (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/news/world/article382076.ece). You're right that it was compulsory.  You're wrong in these details.

Actually, the law was created in 1936 and was "tightened" in 1938. The Hitlerjugend was made up of the Hitlerjugend proper, for male youth ages 14â€"18; the younger boys' section Deutsches Jungvolk for ages 10â€"14; and the girls' section Bund Deutscher Mädel (BDM) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Youth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Youth). Ratty had to join Deutsches Jungvolk at the age of 11 in 1938 and the Hitlerjugend (proper) in 1941.

... and there you have it.

QuoteWhen Ratzinger was 11 years old he had to join the Hitler Jugend in 1938. This was mandatory for all kids. When he was 18 years old (the war was nearly over), he deserted the army. I don't like the guy either, but I wouldn't call him a Nazi.

No, I wouldn't call him a Nazi for that either.

However, I'm prepared to call him a Nazi sympathiser, or at the very least a revisionist historian of the worst kind. I was at two of the demonstrations against him in London for an array of reasons, but as someone who's MA is in Modern History and International Relations the fact he's revoked the excommunication of Bishop Richard Williamson a known Holocaust Denier AND wants to beatify Pius XII makes me sick to my gut.

And as someone who was in the Hitler Youth and saw the firsthand brutality and ultimate futility of the Nazis, you'd think Ratfuck would try and take a proper stand against these horrors instead of just bulldozing over history.   :mad: )