Happy Atheist Forum

I'm interested in how you've come to believe in what you believe.

For me, I was a christian my entire life, or at least as long as I can remember. But a few years ago My aunt (who I am very close to) was expecting her 2nd baby girl. For 9 months she was extremely healthy. A few days before she was born she was completely fine. 100% normal, healthy, breathing, etc. My aunt went to sleep one night, and the next day went into labor, when she was giving birth to her the doctors discovered the baby was not breathing, she was dead. They believe she pinned her umbilical chord with her elbow, suffocating her. Sydney Mitchell was born dead, she was perfect for 9 months and 1 night took that all away.

I remembered that god said he "knitted you together in the womb" and controlled every birth. From that point I thought, how could god kill this baby? what kind of sick joke is this? was it a test for my aunt? if it was then, god is really fucked up to do that.

Anyways, back to when I was a christian; for years and years I was trapped in this bubble, this bubble was called "ignorance", I did everything to refute evolution claims and I believed with all my heart that the earth was only 6000 years old. After my thirst for knowledge grew, I began studying the other side of this debate. (atheist vs theists) As I did, I saw that I had no proof for anything I was saying, evolutionists DID. I also began to think of all the pain, killing, "sin" in the world, that I thought "what kind of god could have done this? I know I could have done a better job than he did."

Before I was on an empty path looking to prove god, but now I'm on a path that is full of constant findings to disprove god.

Please I'd love to hear your beliefs and the origin of them.

 

It was my freshman year in high school, biology AP (advanced placement, not to brag) specifically. Up until a particular Friday, I had been a Christian, at least since I was old enough to understand language. My father is a pastor and I never missed a service. It hadn't even crossed my mind to question the existence of the Abrahamic God.

This particular week was evolution week. Without any reason, I suddenly became a creationist. To this day, I don't know what possessed me. Maybe I felt subconsciously threatened. The point is I spent 5th period of Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday debating my overqualified biology teacher over the merits of evolution. She politely and patiently indulged my ignorance, wasting valuable class time. Finally, on Friday, I had the especially hair-brained idea to bring my Bible to cite as evidence. This was the straw that broke the camel's back. She unloaded on me (politely, respectfully, but sternly and unyieldingly) with one of the most beautiful, perfectly formed, brilliant lectures I've ever had the fortune of hearing. She obliterated me, the way every once in a while someone on HAF will with a troll or newbie. By the time she took a sip of her coffee and went to teaching the class, my entire world had been shattered. She wasn't preaching atheism or anything, just the value of evidence and the perfect way everything fit together without any magic or mythology. The place I had put God in my understanding of the universe was suddenly occupied by something new, something natural.

It took a little while after the amazing tirade for me to finally process everything, but it happened. To this day, I credit Ms. Rose with my ability to question my preconceptions. Had it not been for her, who knows what I would have become? VenomFangX? I shudder at the thought.

I was raised Christian and phased out of it in my teen years. Mine was a more gradual process: theism to deism to a brief period of pure agnosticism to atheism. All that really happened is I started to notice the hypocrisy in the church, and really began to notice the lies they were telling. Not that they knew they were lies. They just don't look into anything outside the "bubble" of what they teach each other. So my story is rather cerebral and boring. I thought and read the Bible (and also began to put into perspective what a Hell, should it exist, would really mean). The end.

Quote from: "Will"Had it not been for her, who knows what I would have become? VenomFangX? I shudder at the thought.

HAHAHA For sureee    

Was it hard merging into what seems like a different life style? from a christian into atheist? It might be one of the hardest things I've done in a long time.

Its kind of like losing a good friend, you know?

Quote from: "tymygy"I'm interested in how you've come to believe in what you believe.

Believe?

Quote from: "tymygy"Was it hard merging into what seems like a different life style? from a christian into atheist? It might be one of the hardest things I've done in a long time.

Its kind of like losing a good friend, you know?

It's not something I know how to compare to anything else. The closest thing I can compare it to is being born into a prison, a prison in which you're told you're free, and then suddenly having someone point out the bars.

As far as lifestyle, for a few years I thought I was the only atheist on the face of the planet. This was before I understood much about the internet, and I was in a town with more churches than houses. I'd never been exposed to atheism as an existing world view, so I was silent about it until I was a junior in college. Needless to say, it was not a fun time. Though the premarital sex was certainly a welcome benefit. My life didn't change until I was made aware of internet forums and discovered there are not only out atheists, but happy, proud atheists. It was places like HAF, in fact, that helped facilitate my shift to a happier, more healthy way of being. Part of why I wanted to and have moderated HAF is I feel I owe places like this an enormous debt. I'm not here to change minds, but I hope in presenting my point of view, maybe I can help someone who may be having a difficult time.

Quote from: "tymygy"HAHAHA For sureee    

Was it hard merging into what seems like a different life style? from a christian into atheist? It might be one of the hardest things I've done in a long time.

Its kind of like losing a good friend, you know?

I've never really believed so I don't miss anything.

QuoteWhat a friend we have in Jesus,
    all our sins and griefs to bear!
    What a privilege to carry
    everything to God in prayer!
    O what peace we often forfeit,
    O what needless pain we bear,
    all because we do not carry
    everything to God in prayer.

That does sound like someone living in a bubble, deprived of oxygen, suffering brain degradation.
What can replace bubble friend, how about real friends, family, art, science, literature, good works, nature, free thought, truth, and The Happy Atheist Forum?

Quote from: "i_am_i"

Quote from: "tymygy"I'm interested in how you've come to believe in what you believe.

Believe?

I believe in science, I believe there is no god.

Don't you?

Quote from: "Will"It was my freshman year in high school, biology AP (advanced placement, not to brag) specifically. Up until a particular Friday, I had been a Christian, at least since I was old enough to understand language. My father is a pastor and I never missed a service. It hadn't even crossed my mind to question the existence of the Abrahamic God.

This particular week was evolution week. Without any reason, I suddenly became a creationist. To this day, I don't know what possessed me. Maybe I felt subconsciously threatened. The point is I spent 5th period of Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday debating my overqualified biology teacher over the merits of evolution. She politely and patiently indulged my ignorance, wasting valuable class time. Finally, on Friday, I had the especially hair-brained idea to bring my Bible to cite as evidence. This was the straw that broke the camel's back. She unloaded on me (politely, respectfully, but sternly and unyieldingly) with one of the most beautiful, perfectly formed, brilliant lectures I've ever had the fortune of hearing. She obliterated me, the way every once in a while someone on HAF will with a troll or newbie. By the time she took a sip of her coffee and went to teaching the class, my entire world had been shattered. She wasn't preaching atheism or anything, just the value of evidence and the perfect way everything fit together without any magic or mythology. The place I had put God in my understanding of the universe was suddenly occupied by something new, something natural.

It took a little while after the amazing tirade for me to finally process everything, but it happened. To this day, I credit Ms. Rose with my ability to question my preconceptions. Had it not been for her, who knows what I would have become? VenomFangX? I shudder at the thought.

Awesome story, thanks for sharing... very interesting.  My first wife's father was a Baptist Minister, Southern Baptist, and it was about the fourth sermon I heard him preach that I became convinced of the BS, but it wasn't until my freshman year in college that I completely gave up the notion of a god and religion.  It was funny, but it was the two religion classes that were required for my AA Degree that actually convinced me that there was no god.  I had never even thought about creation and evolution being at odds, I had always accepted that we had evolved, even my rather devout parents spoke of evolution.  Nope, it was a Methodist Minister in my freshman year who told us to challenge religion and to "grow beyond the Kindergarten beliefs that most Christians held" that opened my eyes.  I'm pretty sure he was a closet atheist, and his class was one of the best I ever took because he taught me to challenge everything.

Quote from: "tymygy"

Quote from: "i_am_i"

Quote from: "tymygy"I'm interested in how you've come to believe in what you believe.

Believe?

I believe in science, I believe there is no god.

Don't you?

I think some people have a problem with the word "believe"
Definition 4 of 5 in Wordweb is "Follow a credo; have a faith; be a believer"
I think people respect, even love science, but try to remain critical.
Belief can have an uncritical connotation.

[/quote]
I think some people have a problem with the word "believe"
Definition 4 of 5 in Wordweb is "Follow a credo; have a faith; be a believer"
I think people respect, even love science, but try to remain critical.
Belief can have an uncritical connotation.[/quote]

I think alot of people see believing and having faith as being equal.

I believe that I will die someday.

I don't believe I will be born again someday.


both are beliefs, just in different contexts.

I rarely use the word belief in conjunction with my life philosophy.

I trust and respect science because understanding the world around us and perhaps expanding it is a fascinating thing. Science has given us computers and air planes and nuclear bombs. What has religion given us that can semi-objectively amount to even that drop in the ocean?

I am an atheist because, simply put, I was born an astheist. It never changed

I'm an atheist because I refuse to believe that the very things that make me human (desires, emotions, drives, instincts) make me a pitiful evil creature in need of "salvation".  Religion is dehumanizing and wrong, simply put.

We're all born atheist.

But I know what you are trying to ask.

I was raised atheist. My parents were both catholic. For a long time. I don't know what happened, but something happened when I was a  toddler and my brother was 7. After that point, no more religion, period. They raised us to believe that God was like santa and that religion was a crutch for the weak minded. I didn't know the word for it, but the other kids at school had me picked out before I even know we were a different family... especially back then, Atheists weren't exactly loved, lol. It's not that it was Islam in particular, it was just an organized religion. Then in 2004 my mom passed away and my dad found God, . HE regrets raising us the way he did and now my relationship with him sucks. He's not drop dead born again or anything, but it's enough of a change to cause problems.

So I was raised this way.
Anyway, I hope my kids don't have it as rough. I would sit here and say I'll give them a choice, but we know thats balogna. There is no choice. Once you teach your kids logic and reason, God sounds like a fairy tale, which it is.

I was lucky enough to have religious parents that allowed me to make my own decision on the matter.  They enrolled me in Sunday school at the local Protestant church, and once I got home they would ask me what I thought and how it made me feel.  When it became clear that I wasn't buying one word of it, they stopped taking me.  I was 7.  Both of my parents have since become non-religious.  I don't know if they are atheists, never talked about it.
Very few of my friends and co-workers know that I don't believe in god.  In my experience, at least in this area, all that knowledge does is draw a line in the sand between you and success.

Quote from: "Sophus"I was raised Christian and phased out of it in my teen years. Mine was a more gradual process: theism to deism to a brief period of pure agnosticism to atheism. All that really happened is I started to notice the hypocrisy in the church, and really began to notice the lies they were telling. Not that they knew they were lies. They just don't look into anything outside the "bubble" of what they teach each other. So my story is rather cerebral and boring. I thought and read the Bible (and also began to put into perspective what a Hell, should it exist, would really mean). The end.

Your story sounds similar to mine, but usually it is a gradual process for anyone raised into a particular religion.
Someone previously mentioned it was like "losing a friend", I thought of it more as mourning a death. But unlike mourning the death of an actual person, you can get over losing your religion.

Quote from: "tymygy"I'm interested in how you've come to believe in what you believe.

Simply...I do not believe. I think.

I was raised a Southern Baptist Texan, but when I was 8 we moved to Teheran, Iran.  Because there aren't many Baptists there, I attended many different services from many different sects, and that was the first chink in the armor: I noticed they all claimed to possess the Truth, and damned each other to hell.  Even to my childish mind, the problem was apparent.

Then, in the late summer of '78, the discontent against the Shah coalesced into outright revolt, under a religious aegis.  After four months of riots, unrest, disturbance, dead bodies, and such, I stumbled onto the Problem of Evil, which haunted my faith for the next two years.

Finally, a silly incident at church choir -- getting sent home for "inappropriate" apparel, as if God cared more about my clothes than my heart -- caused me to realize that theism was nothing more than a lever of control.  And yes, it was hard to watch, between the ages of 12 and 14, watch my faith die.  Scary.  But I couldn't lie to myself: it was dying.  When it expired, I buried it and moved on.

Quote from: "Will"Had it not been for her, who knows what I would have become? VenomFangX? I shudder at the thought.

I highly, highly doubt that Will. You obviously already had intelligence - something i'm not sure VFX is endowed with.. Had Ms. Rose not sowed the seeds of doubt in your brain, you'd have eventually found it another way, i'm sure.

I was raised in a secular environment. Dad was in the Army and mum was a nurse. My first contact with religion was Sunday school when I was five in Borneo. I'd actually asked my parents if I could go (I think someone had come to school in the week to ask which kids wanted to attend). My parents said I could go, so I went. I found it very boring and I realised very quickly that I'd prefer to be outside with my friends in the sun, finding scorpions to annoy (they can run pretty fast when pissed off!).

I had several clashes with other religious teachers over the years. I went to two boarding schools from the age of 11 - 18. The chaplain from the first school was actually a very nice guy and managed to get me semi-interested with various aspects of religion. My English teacher, however, was hulking great fool of a man. I was always a little petulant but I think that's just because I wanted to get facts straight in my head. If I didn't understand something, I'd keep asking questions until I did. Well, my English teacher did not like this - I've never been sure why. Anyway, we had an altercation one time and I think I said 'for gods sake', or something like that. Well, to say he overreacted is an understatement. He gated me for three weeks. To be gated was to have every moment of free time stripped from you. You'd have to sit on your own in breakfast, lunch and dinner with various amounts of ridicule coming your way from other kids. You weren't allowed any contact with family or friends of any kind. Losing your weekend at a boarding school was a very big deal for a twelve year old. Each night I had to write a four-sided essay on various aspects of religion only to have Mr Vipond (the English teacher) tear it up in front of me. Apart from the ordeal making me horrendously homesick for the first and only time in my life, it also sowed a very dark seed of hatred for the religion this English teacher said I wasn't supposed to be blaspheming about.

From there I went to the senior boarding school, four miles down the road. Within the first week, I was at odds with the reverend. I'd asked some apparently impertinent questions and was told I wasn't to be disruptive in his class any more. By my second year there, I'd stopped going to that class. This was completely against the rules but he never said anything to my boarding house master, :D

I only considered myself antitheist after joining this forum.

I was raised Christian, and during my entire upbringing talking about God was as natural as breathing, and so I didn't question it, especially as I attended a fairly strict Christian set of schools and so being seen to upset people by asking questions wasn't a good idea.

  Now it was at uni I really began to really fall into my present state. Now whilst I was at uni I really began to up the religion. I joined the Christian Union, and also joined a fairly large church. I took part in evangelism events, volunteered for different things and even took up the bass guitar because I felt 'called' to play in the worship band. But at the same time, my study of ancient history took me to study things such as the history behind the organization of the Bible, the story of Dionysus and parallelisms between this and the Bible, as well as other historical fields. I began to notice a huge contradiction in my study of history, which required me to critically examine sources, check facts and back up assertions and arguments, and my acceptance of the Bible with none of the same study, despite claiming the Bible to be a perfect historical document.

 So this began a long study of the Bible, both in terms of history and also for its philosophical messages, the contradictions and issues posed by it. I also opted at this point to bother to learn PROPERLY about Islam and to read the Qur'an with help from Muslims and get their viewpoints and ideas. And so by doing this I pretty much threw out the Bible as a book coming from God, and the Qur'an too. For me, a being truly divine would NOT have made such a mess of writing a book should it choose to do so, and that what was in that book would be provable by empirical evidence.

  And so eventually I came to deism, and I began to accept that this was who I really was and am. I seriously wish I could take a time machine, go back to 1995 and hand my 7-yr old self a copy of The Age of Reason. I'd save myself a lot of pain...

 I must also give thanks for the internet. Without it, I would certainly never have found the group of guys who explained evolution to me properly (on another site. Cheers guys!). I would never have found out about deism or The World Union of Deists, and I wouldn't have been able to research Bible stuff as much as I did without it or find video channels on YouTube dedicated to deism (in particular the videos of deistpaladin who makes some excellent videos on Biblical skepticism).

Quote from: "ElizabethPeart"I was raised Christian, and during my entire upbringing talking about God was as natural as breathing, and so I didn't question it, especially as I attended a fairly strict Christian set of schools and so being seen to upset people by asking questions wasn't a good idea.

  Now it was at uni I really began to really fall into my present state. Now whilst I was at uni I really began to up the religion. I joined the Christian Union, and also joined a fairly large church. I took part in evangelism events, volunteered for different things and even took up the bass guitar because I felt 'called' to play in the worship band. But at the same time, my study of ancient history took me to study things such as the history behind the organization of the Bible, the story of Dionysus and parallelisms between this and the Bible, as well as other historical fields. I began to notice a huge contradiction in my study of history, which required me to critically examine sources, check facts and back up assertions and arguments, and my acceptance of the Bible with none of the same study, despite claiming the Bible to be a perfect historical document.

 So this began a long study of the Bible, both in terms of history and also for its philosophical messages, the contradictions and issues posed by it. I also opted at this point to bother to learn PROPERLY about Islam and to read the Qur'an with help from Muslims and get their viewpoints and ideas. And so by doing this I pretty much threw out the Bible as a book coming from God, and the Qur'an too. For me, a being truly divine would NOT have made such a mess of writing a book should it choose to do so, and that what was in that book would be provable by empirical evidence.

  And so eventually I came to deism, and I began to accept that this was who I really was and am. I seriously wish I could take a time machine, go back to 1995 and hand my 7-yr old self a copy of The Age of Reason. I'd save myself a lot of pain...

 I must also give thanks for the internet. Without it, I would certainly never have found the group of guys who explained evolution to me properly (on another site. Cheers guys!). I would never have found out about deism or The World Union of Deists, and I wouldn't have been able to research Bible stuff as much as I did without it or find video channels on YouTube dedicated to deism (in particular the videos of deistpaladin who makes some excellent videos on Biblical skepticism).

Just for curiosity's sake (I've never met a deist before), what exact kind of god do you believe in? Why are you a deist instead of an atheist? Thanks.

Quote from: "navvelline"Your story sounds similar to mine, but usually it is a gradual process for anyone raised into a particular religion.
Someone previously mentioned it was like "losing a friend", I thought of it more as mourning a death. But unlike mourning the death of an actual person, you can get over losing your religion.

I agree, except, also unlike mourning a death, part of me felt very excited and freed. I'll never forget the feeling.

The earliest proto-atheist thought of mine that I can remember is, "You know, if I were God, I would want humans to study nature by the scientific method."

It was all a downhill slide to hell from there.

Quote from: "Inevitable Droid"The earliest proto-atheist thought of mine that I can remember is, "You know, if I were God, I would want humans to study nature by the scientific method."

It was all a downhill slide to hell from there.

Exactly. Why give human beings free will and then punish them if they don't comply to a particular set of beliefs? That's just crazy.

Quote from: "Inevitable Droid"The earliest proto-atheist thought of mine that I can remember is, "You know, if I were God, I would want humans to study nature by the scientific method."

It was all a downhill slide to hell from there.

Mine happened when I was 6, when a fundy televangelist in Texas talked about how planes might be sinful, that if god wanted men to fly he'd have given them wings, and I told my mom, "But he gave them the brains to invent airplanes."

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich"Just for curiosity's sake (I've never met a deist before), what exact kind of god do you believe in? Why are you a deist instead of an atheist? Thanks.

  Deists believe in a God who created the universe, and then put rules in place to ensure the smooth governance of the universe, and as a result the universe's set-up points to a Creator. Deists don't believe in any of the declared holy books (and their contradictions, errors and fallacies), although the consensus is that if God wished to do so, He/She/It could do so, without errors of basic philosophy, science and reason, as well as this revelation being apparent to all of mankind. The belief is (although this is not uniform to all deists) that God does not choose to intervene in the universe in the same way Allah or Yahweh is supposed to have done (which causes a load of issues of freewill among other things) and that nothing should be attributed to God which is not verifiable by reason, which discounts things such as turning water to wine and splitting the moon in half, or faith healing. Deists don't believe (for the most part) in prayer either, believing it to be wrong to dictate to God what to do.

  As to why I'm a deist over an atheist....I actually don't know. I just think that the universe points to a Creator...although I'm open to be converted by a good reasoning!

Quote from: "ElizabethPeart"

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich"Just for curiosity's sake (I've never met a deist before), what exact kind of god do you believe in? Why are you a deist instead of an atheist? Thanks.

  Deists believe in a God who created the universe, and then put rules in place to ensure the smooth governance of the universe, and as a result the universe's set-up points to a Creator. Deists don't believe in any of the declared holy books (and their contradictions, errors and fallacies), although the consensus is that if God wished to do so, He/She/It could do so, without errors of basic philosophy, science and reason, as well as this revelation being apparent to all of mankind. The belief is (although this is not uniform to all deists) that God does not choose to intervene in the universe in the same way Allah or Yahweh is supposed to have done (which causes a load of issues of freewill among other things) and that nothing should be attributed to God which is not verifiable by reason, which discounts things such as turning water to wine and splitting the moon in half, or faith healing. Deists don't believe (for the most part) in prayer either, believing it to be wrong to dictate to God what to do.

  As to why I'm a deist over an atheist....I actually don't know. I just think that the universe points to a Creator...although I'm open to be converted by a good reasoning!

I don't really see much difference between atheism and deism. Atheists think that no gods exist; deists think that a god exists, but didn't really do much else. As noted by Dawkins in The God Delusion, deism is really a watered-down version of atheism.

So, do you think that God is omniscient; Omnipotent; omnibenevolent; etc.? Or do you have no opinion on those sorts of traits?

I think that using a supreme being to explain how we and the universe got here is unnecessary; although there are many gaps in our knowledge, we can explain it through completely naturalistic processes.

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich"I don't really see much difference between atheism and deism. Atheists think that no gods exist; deists think that a god exists, but didn't really do much else. As noted by Dawkins in The God Delusion, deism is really a watered-down version of atheism.

  There really isn't that much of a difference between the two, they're both based on reason and scientific discovery.

The similarity between the two is so much that in the Renaissance, deists were (often and mistakenly) labelled as atheists, including Thomas Paine, labelled as 'Judas, hog, infidel and atheist' by his former friends for his criticism of religion shortly before his death.

QuoteSo, do you think that God is omniscient; Omnipotent; omnibenevolent; etc.? Or do you have no opinion on those sorts of traits?

  Omniscience- seems to be both morally and philosophically impossible.
Omnipresence- there are some deists who believe that God created the universe and then BECAME the universe itself, which acts a sort of omnipresence. If you're talking about the classical religious omnipresence, then I believe it not to be the case.
An omni-benevolent God- I don't know. I believe in a God who is merciful to all regardless of belief, race, gender or anything else, and who has given us the gifts of consciousness, reason and intellect for a reason.

 

QuoteI think that using a supreme being to explain how we and the universe got here is unnecessary; although there are many gaps in our knowledge, we can explain it through completely naturalistic processes.

   I'm still studying this idea...I must admit there are HUGE gaps in my own scientific knowledge apart from astronomy.

I had labelled myself a 'deist' for a while - it seemed an easy way out, I guess. As far as the term "watered down atheism," I would kind of agree. If the deistic god or goddess or whatever (not God, since at this point, he wouldn't be specific to any one religion, correct?) provides only one purpose, which is an explanation of where the universe came from, why not just knock it out with the Razor?

If deism is true, what happens when you die? I'm kind of curious on this, as I'm learning that my perception of deism may not be what it really is...

Quote from: "ElizabethPeart"There really isn't that much of a difference between the two, they're both based on reason and scientific discovery.

What scientific discoveries buttress deism?

Quote from: "Croaker"I had labelled myself a 'deist' for a while - it seemed an easy way out, I guess. As far as the term "watered down atheism," I would kind of agree. If the deistic god or goddess or whatever (not God, since at this point, he wouldn't be specific to any one religion, correct?) provides only one purpose, which is an explanation of where the universe came from, why not just knock it out with the Razor?

If deism is true, what happens when you die? I'm kind of curious on this, as I'm learning that my perception of deism may not be what it really is...

I agree with you that deism is an easy way out -- it certainly seems that way to me, at least. I mean, with deism, you can conveniently bypass most of the "problems with atheism" (such as complexity of design...and have you noticed that most arguments against atheism can be fixed if you believe in a deistic god?), without subscribing to a religion -- basically, being an atheist while not technically being an atheist. It seems perfect.

Sorry if I sound condescending -- I'm not trying to be.

I also share your curiosity on the deistic view on the afterlife. My guess is that it varies from person to person.

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich"I also share your curiosity on the deistic view on the afterlife. My guess is that it varies from person to person.

As far as I've ever been able to tell, your guess is correct.  Thomas Paine is the poster boy for Deism, and his famous quote is often trotted out by Deists when the relevant topic arises.  Paine said, "I have hope for happiness in an afterlife."  Hope is very different from faith.  Meanwhile, it isn't hard to find Deists who reject any notion of an afterlife, nor is it difficult to find Deists who claim to believe in an afterlife.

Quote from: "Inevitable Droid"

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich"I also share your curiosity on the deistic view on the afterlife. My guess is that it varies from person to person.

As far as I've ever been able to tell, your guess is correct.  Thomas Paine is the poster boy for Deism, and his famous quote is often trotted out by Deists when the relevant topic arises.  Paine said, "I have hope for happiness in an afterlife."  Hope is very different from faith.  Meanwhile, it isn't hard to find Deists who reject any notion of an afterlife, nor is it difficult to find Deists who claim to believe in an afterlife.

I too hope that there is an afterlife, but I know that my hope is irrational and wishful thinking.

I imagine immortality would get boring after a while.

Maybe.  I think that that brain would start to do some pretty odd things once it got old enough.  However, even if it worked perfectly, I can imagine enjoying things I have done before.  I don't know if I could enjoy things I've done an infinite number of times, though.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"I imagine immortality would get boring after a while.

I don't.  Of course the onus would be on me to not allow that.  My solution would be to devote my life to discovery, about the universe, about myself, and about the possibilities latent in both.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"I imagine immortality would get boring after a while.

I highly doubt that it would get boring to me, but I'm not you.

Quote from: "Inevitable Droid"

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"I imagine immortality would get boring after a while.

I don't.  Of course the onus would be on me to not allow that.  My solution would be to devote my life to discovery, about the universe, about myself, and about the possibilities latent in both.

The unspoken premise here is that knowledge is infinite.  That cannot be ascertained one way or the other; and I personally don't think that it is.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"The unspoken premise here is that knowledge is infinite.  That cannot be ascertained one way or the other; and I personally don't think that it is.

It woud sure be fun to find out! :cool:

Oh, and if the offer required the insertion of nanotech, I'd be fine with that.

I think the best books, movies, tv series, whatever, are the ones that end - and don't just drag on for years and years afterwards. That's how I'd like my life to be viewed - something that didn't overstay its welcome. I agree that immortality would become boring - I'm more keen to think that the universe is finite, and would therefore be exhausted, even in all its crazy size, by immortality.

The possibility of immortality is one of the big turn-offs for me about religion - not just the fact that it reduces your physical existence to mean absolutely nothing (finite life divided by infinite afterlife = 0) but the fact that you can be punished forever for merely being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's like throwing an infant in jail, for the rest of its life, for the mere act of pooping.

A burning, torturous jail, nonetheless.

No thanks.  

Quote from: "Inevitable Droid"

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"The unspoken premise here is that knowledge is infinite.  That cannot be ascertained one way or the other; and I personally don't think that it is.

It woud sure be fun to find out! :cool:

Oh, and if the offer required the insertion of nanotech, I'd be fine with that.

I'm fine with not knowing everything, and, I have to admit, I'm uncomfortable with the whole nanotech thing, for purely irrational reasons.  I like the idea of my son going places I've never dreamt of; it's one of those things that makes parenting fun.

Little SoB does it anyway, I might as well make my peace with it, right?  

Quote from: "Croaker"The possibility of immortality is one of the big turn-offs for me about religion - not just the fact that it reduces your physical existence to mean absolutely nothing (finite life divided by infinite afterlife = 0) but the fact that you can be punished forever for merely being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's like throwing an infant in jail, for the rest of its life, for the mere act of pooping.

Oh, if we're talking about disembodied immortality, my comments would be different.   I probably wouldn't turn it down, but I would be worried about its parameters.  My prior comments were in reference to bodied immortality.

Disembodied immortality as imagined by Christians is grotesque and absurd from so many directions so obvious to atheists that I won't belabor them.  But we don't have to hitch our imagination's wagon to the Christian horse.  We could hitch it to some other horse.  To do so would require us to entertain unfalsifiable hypotheses, of course, and would therefore put us in the realm of hope rather than knowledge, but precisely because we'd stepped out of knowledge's realm, we could leave science and empiricism aside, and have ourselves a blast with only logic to restrain us, if we happened to be so inclined.  Going down that path on this particular message board would be pointless, however, since almost no one would have any interest in the discussion.

When I was growing up, I had very little religous teaching. The few times I did, I was too young to think of adults as not knowing something, so I believed them. For the most part though, I had been taught to think for myself. The concept of a god not existing was simply never introduced to me. When I eventually read Eldest it contained a short discussion about religion, which included the concept of athiesim. This concept came not too long after finding out about santa, which very quickly brought me to the conclusion that god was just another story to keep children from misbehaving. everything I've come across since then has only strengthened this conclusion.