Happy Atheist Forum

I know a lot of you don't believe in gods, but what do you believe in? the stranger the better!

Some creatures that I believe in are: stick indians, wendigo, sasquatch (Big foot,) ghosts, aliens, (Note I do not believe that they've visited us, just that in all probability other beings exist SOMEWHERE.) kappa, mothmen, skinwalkers (Shapeshifters), molemen, leprechauns, demons, spirits, spirit beasts, mechanicals, elemental spirits, and brownies. Maybe vampires, I knew this guy in college who claimed to be a vampire... He drank blood and everything, though in hindsight, he may have just been a weirdo.  

I also believe in luck, and universal balance (not quite karma, but close.) That it's a bad idea to whistle at the sea, in the dark, in a forest, or at the aurora borealis... not sure about australis though.

Death and taxes.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"I know a lot of you don't believe in gods, but what do you believe in? the stranger the better!

Some creatures that I believe in are: stick indians, wendigo, sasquatch (Big foot,) ghosts, aliens, (Note I do not believe that they've visited us, just that in all probability other beings exist SOMEWHERE.) kappa, mothmen, skinwalkers (Shapeshifters), molemen, leprechauns, demons, spirits, spirit beasts, mechanicals, elemental spirits, and brownies. Maybe vampires, I knew this guy in college who claimed to be a vampire... He drank blood and everything, though in hindsight, he may have just been a weirdo.  

I also believe in luck, and universal balance (not quite karma, but close.) That it's a bad idea to whistle at the sea, in the dark, in a forest, or at the aurora borealis... not sure about australis though.

Why don't you believe in god?

Cheese

.....and bacon.

Quote from: "i_am_i"Why don't you believe in god?

I believe in lots of gods.

Quote from: "Tank"Death and taxes.

I don't pay taxes, I'm exempt.

I'll probably die at somepoint, but I like to think I'll become immortal before then... However unlikely that is.

Actually I try not to 'believe' in anything when taking the word in it's faith based form. If I think something is probable then I tend to have some evidence that the 'something' is possible. You mention aliens. I have taken quite some time thinking about this and my current opinion is that alien life is a virtual certainty at the microbial level and lots of it. However technologically capable aliens are probably incredibly rare and the chance of us discovering one are so close to zero that it would make no difference. I'd happily bet £1,000 at pretty much any odds that we won't have positive proof of a technologically capable alien race being discovered in the next ten years.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"

Quote from: "Tank"Death and taxes.

I don't pay taxes, I'm exempt.

I'll probably die at somepoint, but I like to think I'll become immortal before then... However unlikely that is.

What year/month were you born?

1990/september.  :verysad:

Quote from: "Tank"Actually I try not to 'believe' in anything when taking the word in it's faith based form. If I think something is probable then I tend to have some evidence that the 'something' is possible. You mention aliens. I have taken quite some time thinking about this and my current opinion is that alien life is a virtual certainty at the microbial level and lots of it. However technologically capable aliens are probably incredibly rare and the chance of us discovering one are so close to zero that it would make no difference. I'd happily bet £1,000 at pretty much any odds that we won't have positive proof of a technologically capable alien race being discovered in the next ten years.

This is pretty much my view of aliens, however I firmly believe that there's advanced life out there.

It there's any none-zero chance of intelligent life existing at any given point in space then it DOES!.. Provided that the universe is indeed infinite, which i like to think it is.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"

Quote from: "Tank"Actually I try not to 'believe' in anything when taking the word in it's faith based form. If I think something is probable then I tend to have some evidence that the 'something' is possible. You mention aliens. I have taken quite some time thinking about this and my current opinion is that alien life is a virtual certainty at the microbial level and lots of it. However technologically capable aliens are probably incredibly rare and the chance of us discovering one are so close to zero that it would make no difference. I'd happily bet £1,000 at pretty much any odds that we won't have positive proof of a technologically capable alien race being discovered in the next ten years.

This is pretty much my view of aliens, however I firmly believe that there's advanced life out there.

It there's any none-zero chance of intelligent life existing at any given point in space then it DOES!.. Provided that the universe is indeed infinite, which i like to think it is.

I would be amazed if we were the only technologically capable creature in the universe or for that matter in our galaxy. What I said was that the probability of discovering another one was virtually non-existent.

If there's two technologically advanced civilizations in our galaxy then we will eventually come across each other.

The milky way is 100,000 light years in diametre, thus radiowaves will go from one side to the other in 100,000 years... So we may have to wait a while, but then again the aliens could be closer. So far they've travelled 104 light years!

We could pick up transmissions from them before then however, which is what SETI is trying to do.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"If there's two technologically advanced civilizations in our galaxy then we will eventually come across each other.

The milky way is 100,000 light years in diametre, thus radiowaves will go from one side to the other in 100,000 years... So we may have to wait a while, but then again the aliens could be closer. So far they've travelled 104 light years!

We could pick up transmissions from them before then however, which is what SETI is trying to do.

No we may not. The key factor is the life span of technological civilisations. Say it is 10,000 years. Neither the other civilisation nor ourselves will ever be aware of the others existance. In addition you have to consider the signal to noise ratio of any transmissions from the other civilisation vs that of the star it orbits.

I am well aware of SETI and the Drake Equation. The key issue with the Drake equation is it fails to factor in the distances between the civilisations it posits.

...You're such a  party pooper.  

There's still the chance of one of the inteligent civilizations developing FTL travel!

Quote from: "Byronazriel"...You're such a  party pooper.  

There's still the chance of one of the inteligent civilizations developing FTL travel!

Correct me if I'm wrong....but I thought FTL was impossible?
Anywho, other than death and my thoughts....I don't think I really 'believe' in anything.

As for intelligent extraterrestrial life: I am not certain that they are out there, but I think it would be very arrogant of anyone to assume that we were the only intelligent life forms who exist, or EVER existed in the universe.

My biggest dream is for scientists to discover that there is life out there, even more so intelligent life. We've only recently been able to discover about 500 extrasolar planets within a 300 ly radius from our planet (keep in mind the Milkyway Galaxy is 100,000 ly in diameter). As I look at my own solar system and understand that there are other systems alike in the vast cosmos...I almost become certain that there is other life, including intelligent life.

However, I do agree with Tank that it my be well out of our lifetime before we will make such a grand discovery.

Technically FTL speed is only impossible because it would require greater than infinite energy to accelerate a given mass to a higher speed than 299,792,458 metres per second...

Theoretically you could warp space in such a way that you are actually travelling only a short distance, but you end up a great distance away... Hence "Warp drive"

Wormholes, teleportation, and other such things bypass this rule by crossing great distances without actually crossing great distances... Like taking a shortcut. You're still going the speed limit, but you aren't staying on the road.

In other words in order to cheat you must go from A to C without travelling through B.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"

Quote from: "i_am_i"Why don't you believe in god?

I believe in lots of gods.

Which ones?

I believe that all, and any gods are equally valid human interpretations of universal forces.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"I believe that all, and any gods are equally valid human interpretations of universal forces.

Well, no, that's not what you said. You said that you believe in many gods. So I'm asking you to name the gods you believe in.

Do you want them in alpha/numeric order?

Or by religion?

Either way it would take far too long.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"Do you want them in alpha/numeric order?

Or by religion?

Either way it would take far too long.

Okay, then just name one.

Bilious:The oh god of hangovers

I can't think of anything I believe in that can't be objectively shown to exist except the very basic belief that reality is not just an illusion. I find it productive to go ahead and take at least a tiny leap of faith on that topic.

There are things that I find highly possible, like aliens.  But I don't really believe in them.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"Bilious:The oh god of hangovers

Come on, I'm serious. Won't you just name one of the gods you believe in?

So am I, and I did.

I also believe in Cthulhu, Thor, Hercules, Jupiter, Superman, Santa, and Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I may not worship them, but I believe they exist.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"So am I, and I did.

I also believe in Cthulhu, Thor, Hercules, Jupiter, Superman, Santa, and Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I may not worship them, but I believe they exist.

Well this is utterly pointless bordering on moronic, so I believe I'll go watch the baseball game.

Who's to ay anything has any more or less substance than anything else?

Do I exist any more than the incredible Hulk?

Is there any way for you, or I to know for sure?

Is an illusory apple any less or more real than a physical apple?

Whether the apple is made of conceptual dream fluid, or physical atomic particles doesn't matter. They are both apples.

A is A, an apple is an apple.

Everything is merely probability, you say that Bilious the oh god of hangovers is not a serious god... What's the difference between a fictional god, and a real god? No really, tell me.

Is Thor any more or less real than Hercules, is Batman any less real than Captain America?

Is Santa any less real than Jesus?

Is this dancing banana  :fish: ?

Or perhaps more along the lines of my religious beliefs: Is a brick any less or more real than the house it is a part of?

Can you construct a fake house out of real bricks? Yes, I've seen plenty of prop houses.

Can you make a real house out of fake bricks? Yes, you can certainly live in a house made of rubber bricks... perhaps not comfortably however.

At what point does a collection of trees become a forest?

That's my religious beliefs in a nutshell: A single tree can be a forest, but a forest cannot be a single tree.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"Who's to ay anything has any more or less substance than anything else?

Do I exist any more than the incredible Hulk?

Is there any way for you, or I to know for sure?

Is an illusory apple any less or more real than a physical apple?

Whether the apple is made of conceptual dream fluid, or physical atomic particles doesn't matter. They are both apples.

A is A, an apple is an apple.

Everything is merely probability, you say that Bilious the oh god of hangovers is not a serious god... What's the difference between a fictional god, and a real god? No really, tell me.

Is Thor any more or less real than Hercules, is Batman any less real than Captain America?

Is Santa any less real than Jesus?

Is this dancing banana  :fish: ?

Or perhaps more along the lines of my religious beliefs: Is a brick any less or more real than the house it is a part of?

Can you construct a fake house out of real bricks? Yes, I've seen plenty of prop houses.

Can you make a real house out of fake bricks? Yes, you can certainly live in a house made of rubber bricks... perhaps not comfortably however.

At what point does a collection of trees become a forest?

That's my religious beliefs in a nutshell: A single tree can be a forest, but a forest cannot be a single tree.

Sorry, can't talk right now. Watching the baseball game.

It's 6-1 in the bottom of the seventh.

I believe in me, and myself. And that's all. What does that make me? A Levain (sp) Satanist?

Quote from: "Cite134"As for intelligent extraterrestrial life: I am not certain that they are out there, but I think it would be very arrogant of anyone to assume that we were the only intelligent life forms who exist, or EVER existed in the universe.

Agree. The probability of ET is very very high.

Quote from: "Whitney"I can't think of anything I believe in that can't be objectively shown to exist except the very basic belief that reality is not just an illusion. I find it productive to go ahead and take at least a tiny leap of faith on that topic.

I'm constantly questioning my reality, and I enjoy doing so.

I believe in Neosporin and the wind.

I'm pretty sure that the universe as we know it is not infinite.

Of course, because knowledge is finite.

No, because time began with the big bang.  If the universe had an infinite size but a finite beginning, that would show a massive violation of relativity.  Of course, that could've happened, I suppose, during Planck-time, but that smacks of special pleading.

I didn't know Superman was based on a real story.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"Technically FTL speed is only impossible because it would require greater than infinite energy to accelerate a given mass to a higher speed than 299,792,458 metres per second...

Theoretically you could warp space in such a way that you are actually travelling only a short distance, but you end up a great distance away... Hence "Warp drive"

Wormholes, teleportation, and other such things bypass this rule by crossing great distances without actually crossing great distances... Like taking a shortcut. You're still going the speed limit, but you aren't staying on the road.

In other words in order to cheat you must go from A to C without travelling through B.

Not faster than actual light speed, but I see what you're saying though.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"There's still the chance of one of the inteligent civilizations developing FTL travel!

Actually, I doubt it. You would need some sort of a singularity drive to achieve that (Or an equivalent that would mnore than likely have just as dangerous implications to it) and that would rip your space craft's atoms apart long before its installation. Personally, I believe in holes in the "fabric of space" more than in conventional C+ travel.

Though I am uncomfortable making a definite and positive assertion, I've had experiences with things that may or may not have been spiritual entities that I cannot find logical explanations for.

That's a kind of fancy way of saying I believe in ghosts.   Although I am still open to the possibility that there is a scientific explanation, I just can't grasp it.

Quote from: "philosoraptor"Although I am still open to the possibility that there is a scientific explanation, I just can't grasp it.

Can't grasp or, more likely, are unaware of.  

I believe there is much we don't know.
I hope we advance steadily for a thousand years, and then a million more.
I don't believe currently perceived limitations would necessarily apply.
Not a belief, just a hope.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"No, because time began with the big bang.  If the universe had an infinite size but a finite beginning, that would show a massive violation of relativity.  Of course, that could've happened, I suppose, during Planck-time, but that smacks of special pleading.

That's assuming Time didn't exist in some fashion before the big bang.

I'm not saying time relative to this universe, and sepcifically as a part of spacetime didn't begin with the big bang... Only that there was most likely some sort of Time that exsisted before then in some greater universe containing ours and all universes.

Byronazriel,

To answer the original question.  I believe the universe exists.  

It seems you believe in many things.  I guess the proper question to ask you is what don't you believe in?

I don't believe that good can exist without evil, or at least in any meaningful way.

Nor do I believe that science can explain everything, but that's more to do with the vast amount of things to know, and not a limitation of science.

I don't believe that we are all that is, or will ever be.

I don't believe that consciousness ends with death.

There are a great may things I don't believe in.

Quote from: "Cecilie"I didn't know Superman was based on a real story.

Nor do I, not here and now anyway.

I believe that he exists here and now as a concept, and that he exists in the flesh somewhere.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"...You're such a  party pooper.  :verysad:

I really do wish I live long enough to see some sort of alien life confirmed. By all accounts the most likely detection method will be spectroscopy where the reflected light from a planet reveals that there is a lot of photosynthesising plants as they have a characteristic absorption signature as one goes from the infra red (high reflection) to visible light (high absorption).

Quote from: "Byronazriel"I don't believe that consciousness ends with death.

Why?

Remember folks, young Byronazriel is only around 21 years of age.  He has never NOT known computers, the internet, cell phones, or Star Trek/Star Wars.  His reality has been influenced heavily by a very strong fantasy reality in Hollywood and to the young anything technological seems possible.

I remember being young and wanting to believe in many things, and as I grew older, the probability of their existence diminished until the reality of what is and what one wants to be, came more and more into focus.

Now, as for me, I believe in what can be proven for the most part; however, I do leave open a belief in some rather "spiritual" things like LOVE, and BEAUTY,  realising that both are subjective and open to individual interpretation.

As for aliens, I believe that there is almost certainly life out there, but like Hawking, I believe that the distance of space makes our being able to communicate, much less interact physically, is virtually impossible at the moment, and within the forseeable future.

Just a humble opinion from the Left.  LOL

Quote from: "Byronazriel"I don't believe that good can exist without evil, or at least in any meaningful way.

Nor do I believe that science can explain everything, but that's more to do with the vast amount of things to know, and not a limitation of science.

I don't believe that we are all that is, or will ever be.

I don't believe that consciousness ends with death.

There are a great may things I don't believe in.

Well I guess we just have a problem with words.  The list above, to my eyes, looks like this:

You believe in good and evil.  

You believe that the universe is unlimited

You believe that there is other stuff besides us and that there will be more stuff to come

You believe that consciousness continues after we die


It seems you believe in any and every mythical, mystical thing.  It seems you must also believe that all of these things are not in the same universe, because many of them contradict each other.  The very reason that many people turn to atheism is that it is not possible that all of the God's are correct.  Any one or few could exists, but not all of them, some of them directly contradict each other.

So you're saying that gods cannot contradict each other, when it seems that that's all humans seem to be able to do... Even when they're alone?

Belief and disbelief are just two sides of the same coin. Everyone has a set amount of belief, even if they don't believe in magic or the supernatural... They still believe in a lot of things! Such as science, or people, or trees, or the dallas cowboys, or art, or any number of comparitively mundane things.

Likewise, there are people who are like me... Except disbelievers, and I find them to be as annoying as they are facinating.

Why shouldn't I believe in everything? I'm an all or nothing kind of guy, and believing in nothing is boring.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"That's assuming Time didn't exist in some fashion before the big bang.

It's not an assupmtion.  It's a verified prediction of general relativity: time is a dimension of this Universe.

QuoteI'm not saying time relative to this universe, and sepcifically as a part of spacetime didn't begin with the big bang... Only that there was most likely some sort of Time that exsisted before then in some greater universe containing ours and all universes.

It's possible, but we cannot say, and I'm not sure we ever will be able to.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"So you're saying that gods cannot contradict each other, when it seems that that's all humans seem to be able to do... Even when they're alone?

Belief and disbelief are just two sides of the same coin. Everyone has a set amount of belief, even if they don't believe in magic or the supernatural... They still believe in a lot of things! Such as science, or people, or trees, or the dallas cowboys, or art, or any number of comparitively mundane things.

Likewise, there are people who are like me... Except disbelievers, and I find them to be as annoying as they are facinating.

Why shouldn't I believe in everything? I'm an all or nothing kind of guy, and believing in nothing is boring.

You can certainly believe whatever you want.  I'm just trying to understand what that is.  Again we are having a problem with words.  Science, people, trees, the Dallas Cowboys, and art all exist.  We know this if we know anything.  These things don't require belief in the same sense as pixies, fairies and gods.

Do you have the same level of belief in all things?  For example on a scale of 1 to 10 my belief that I am typing write now would be a 10.  Other things like science, people, trees, the Dallas Cowboys and art, would also rank 10 on my belief scale. God would rank 0.  

 Yahweh is the one true god and Zeus is the king of all gods.  Where would your belief in this statement rank on a 1-10 scale?

You sir, are epic.  I like your consistency!

Between 2 and 4.

You're thinking about it all wrong, the Judeo-Christian god might believe that he's the one true god, or some other such things... But that doesn't make it so, the bible makes a lot more sense when you think of God as you would any other person.

He's probably just a narcisist. And Zeus is most definiately not playing with a full deck.

All things are true somwhere, and in some way. As I've said before: There's a kernel of truth in everything, but you need to see the fruit of lies that surronds that kernel in order to function properly in society.

I believe in gods, I believe that when I pray to any one of them SOMETHING SOMEWHERE hears it... And if its so inclined it may even do something about it, or answer it.

I believe that anything that can be dreamed up, and deemed a god, is a an aspect of some greater force of reality.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"So you're saying that gods cannot contradict each other, when it seems that that's all humans seem to be able to do... Even when they're alone?

Why the need to compare the hypothetical "them" to us? If they existed, maybe they could. Maybe they couldn't. It's unimportant when their very existence is, judging by the evidence, the stuff of fiction.

QuoteBelief and disbelief are just two sides of the same coin.

For instance, I don't believe in UFOs is, as a statement, more telling than "I believe there are no UFOs" which, among other things, raises the question "where". It depends on the state of the object of your claim and the question setting.

QuoteEveryone has a set amount of belief, even if they don't believe in magic or the supernatural... They still believe in a lot of things!

Proof of concept..?

 

QuoteSuch as science

Most intellectual people rely on it rather than believing in it.

 

Quoteor people

Their goodness and fairness..? Because for the existence of people, the word you are looking for is knowledge, as the fact that people exist is, well, a fact.

 

Quoteor trees

Again, we know the trees exist. You could have at least picked some facts that are demonstrable to a lesser degree for this thing.

 

Quoteor the dallas cowboys

Which are..? What does believing in them mean, exactly?

Quoteor art, or any number of comparitively mundane things.

Believe in the existence of art, the message of an individual piece or something else..? Again, you are not exactly defining the scope in which you are addressing belief.

QuoteLikewise, there are people who are like me... Except disbelievers, and I find them to be as annoying as they are facinating.

Having a dollar defines you as having money. Having one thousand dollars defines you as having more money. Still not rich, but in this example, better off than the other guy. It's a question of measureable degrees of something - belief in this case.

QuoteWhy shouldn't I believe in everything? I'm an all or nothing kind of guy, and believing in nothing is boring.

You can. But then one day someone may come to you and tell you that you've just won a lottery and that your prize is in a house across the street. What they fail to tell you, is that within the said house, there is a bomb rigged to a door. Believing in goodness of humanity, which is a part of "everything", you go in and... End up a quad. That's what believing gets you.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"So you're saying that gods cannot contradict each other, when it seems that that's all humans seem to be able to do... Even when they're alone?

Belief and disbelief are just two sides of the same coin. Everyone has a set amount of belief, even if they don't believe in magic or the supernatural... They still believe in a lot of things! Such as science, or people, or trees, or the dallas cowboys, or art, or any number of comparitively mundane things.

Likewise, there are people who are like me... Except disbelievers, and I find them to be as annoying as they are facinating.

Why shouldn't I believe in everything? I'm an all or nothing kind of guy, and believing in nothing is boring.

I can't decide if I want to classify you as a Deist, a Theist, or a confused atheist/agnostic.  I think the CONCEPT of gods always contradict themselves, yes; but since gods are a human construct, they are destined to do so.  Your statements about gods contradicting themselves because humans do, is correct in correlation to my previous statement, but if you are a Deist/Theist, you can't make that statement because you would then be putting gods and humans on the same plane, and that doesn't work for those who believe.

Belief and dis-beief are not always different sides of the same coin, in that the reasons for belief or dis-belief are not always opposite.  Having beliefs in things is much different than having faith in things.  The supernatural often requires both faith and belief, whereas, the belief in science, people, or even trees, requires little if any faith, in order to  believe.

If I was asked, and by your posting I'll assume you are asking, you are at a crossroad in your life which isn't uncommon among young adults whose brains are making some remarkable changes in physiology around this time; but, you can't logically believe in EVERYTHING since that alone is a contradiction.  It's like saying you never tell a lie, then tell someone you are now lying.  What you are doing is attempting to define what your mind is able to believe and what you logically will NOT be able to believe.  You are attempting to remain open to all possibilities, which is healthy but sometimes VERY far from logical.

Looking at your last statement that you believe in everything, that you are an all or nothing kind of guy, doesn't really work in reality.  You can't believe in Santa, unless you are speaking in terms conceptual belief, like one might "believe" that a cartoon character exists in the realm of fantasy.  Belief in reality does have certain limits, such as one might "believe" that one could exist in outer space without the assistance of a pressurized suit and oxygen, but we KNOW that isn't possible as we have limits imposed on us by our evolution and our dependence on our own planet.

Anyway, I'm rambling, but I hope you find what you are searching for, it can be a fun journey, just keep an open mind and respect the reality and experiences of others.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"You're thinking about it all wrong, the Judeo-Christian god might believe that he's the one true god, or some other such things... But that doesn't make it so, the bible makes a lot more sense when you think of God as you would any other person.

What..? The Muslims get no cake..?   And what does Torah have to do with Biblical god..? (I know the answer, just poking flawed wording leading to a flawed argument)

QuoteHe's probably just a narcisist. And Zeus is most definiately not playing with a full deck.

How about Sutekh? What's wrong with his deck? Or Quetzalcoatl? If nothing else, he has a cool name. Why can't he be a true god?

QuoteAll things are true somwhere, and in some way

Things are. Ideas and assumptions, however, are sometimes completely and utterly false. Sorry to disappoint you, but ther isn't a measure of truth in EVERY lie - only in the most believable ones, usually.

QuoteAs I've said before: There's a kernel of truth in everything, but you need to see the fruit of lies that surronds that kernel in order to function properly in society.

And as I said... You know what I just said.

QuoteI believe in gods, I believe that when I pray to any one of them SOMETHING SOMEWHERE hears it... And if its so inclined it may even do something about it, or answer it.

Yeah. A virus floating in the air probably hears you, although it technically has no ears. You wouldn't want a virus to do something about it though..? When viruses want to make someone shut up, it usually aint pretty.

QuoteI believe that anything that can be dreamed up, and deemed a god, is a an aspect of some greater force of reality.

"Greater force of reality"..? Define that, will you?

Quote from: "Asmodean"For instance, I don't believe in UFOs is, as a statement, more telling than "I believe there are no UFOs" which, among other things, raises the question "where". It depends on the state of the object of your claim and the question setting.

"I don't believe in UFOs" is a statement asserting that all flying objects can be identified.

Quote from: "Martin TK"I can't decide if I want to classify you as a Deist, a Theist, or a confused atheist/agnostic.  I think the CONCEPT of gods always contradict themselves, yes; but since gods are a human construct, they are destined to do so.  Your statements about gods contradicting themselves because humans do, is correct in correlation to my previous statement, but if you are a Deist/Theist, you can't make that statement because you would then be putting gods and humans on the same plane, and that doesn't work for those who believe.

If I was asked, and by your posting I'll assume you are asking, you are at a crossroad in your life which isn't uncommon among young adults whose brains are making some remarkable changes in physiology around this time; but, you can't logically believe in EVERYTHING since that alone is a contradiction.  It's like saying you never tell a lie, then tell someone you are now lying.  What you are doing is attempting to define what your mind is able to believe and what you logically will NOT be able to believe.  You are attempting to remain open to all possibilities, which is healthy but sometimes VERY far from logical.

Looking at your last statement that you believe in everything, that you are an all or nothing kind of guy, doesn't really work in reality.  You can't believe in Santa, unless you are speaking in terms conceptual belief, like one might "believe" that a cartoon character exists in the realm of fantasy.  Belief in reality does have certain limits, such as one might "believe" that one could exist in outer space without the assistance of a pressurized suit and oxygen, but we KNOW that isn't possible as we have limits imposed on us by our evolution and our dependence on our own planet.

Anyway, I'm rambling, but I hope you find what you are searching for, it can be a fun journey, just keep an open mind and respect the reality and experiences of others.

I think of my religion, or lack therof as being more of a spiritual hobby. It's as much just something amusing to think about, as it is faith in something or other.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"

Quote from: "Asmodean"For instance, I don't believe in UFOs is, as a statement, more telling than "I believe there are no UFOs" which, among other things, raises the question "where". It depends on the state of the object of your claim and the question setting.

"I don't believe in UFOs" is a statement asserting that all flying objects can be identified.

Trust me, you do NOT want to get into a nitpickery argument with me  

For the sake of maybe getting something more solid out of you though, I will redefine my statement:

"I do not believe that intelligent, as defined by a 1:1 or greater IQ relation of an average educated human to the said object, organical or mechanical organisms, originating on planets other than the Earth or the equipment manufactured by said organisms, have within the last one hundred Earth years, as defined by 1yr = approx. one rotation of the Earth around its closest star, been within the same solar system as the Earth.

Quote from: "Asmodean"

QuoteI believe in gods, I believe that when I pray to any one of them SOMETHING SOMEWHERE hears it... And if its so inclined it may even do something about it, or answer it.

Yeah. A virus floating in the air probably hears you, although it technically has no ears. You wouldn't want a virus to do something about it though..? When viruses want to make someone shut up, it usually aint pretty.

Darn those mind reading viruses! Now, where did I put my tinfoil hat?  

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "Byronazriel"You're thinking about it all wrong, the Judeo-Christian god might believe that he's the one true god, or some other such things... But that doesn't make it so, the bible makes a lot more sense when you think of God as you would any other person.

What..? The Muslims get no cake..?   And what does Torah have to do with Biblical god..? (I know the answer, just poking flawed wording leading to a flawed argument)

QuoteHe's probably just a narcisist. And Zeus is most definiately not playing with a full deck.

How about Sutekh? What's wrong with his deck? Or Quetzalcoatl? If nothing else, he has a cool name. Why can't he be a true god?

Generally I don't like making statements of any sort about books I've never read, or people/gods I'm only dimly aware of.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"Darn those mind reading viruses! Now, where did I put my tinfoil hat?  :|

Quote

QuoteWhy shouldn't I believe in everything? I'm an all or nothing kind of guy, and believing in nothing is boring.

You can. But then one day someone may come to you and tell you that you've just won a lottery and that your prize is in a house across the street. What they fail to tell you, is that within the said house, there is a bomb rigged to a door. Believing in goodness of humanity, which is a part of "everything", you go in and... End up a quad. That's what believing gets you.

I do believe in the goodness of humanity, and also in the evil of humanity... Which puts me right about at a cool, even neutral.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"Generally I don't like making statements of any sort about books I've never read, or people/gods I'm only dimly aware of.

You are happily assuming left and right though... Never stopped you before  

In general, Sutekh is no more ridiculous a concept for a god than Jehova. Neither is Quetzalcoatl. And both parent peoples of the named gods built big pointy pyramids that had some stellar significance. On two different continents, no less. With like... An OCEAN of water inbetween. For someone who is ready to believe in nice, yet poorly substantiated fantasies, is this not a potential treasure trove..? From there you can jump to the space invaders, the sunken Atlantis, true gods... Whatever your mind may conjure up. I'm surprised you have not discovered those myths yet.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"

QuoteYou can. But then one day someone may come to you and tell you that you've just won a lottery and that your prize is in a house across the street. What they fail to tell you, is that within the said house, there is a bomb rigged to a door. Believing in goodness of humanity, which is a part of "everything", you go in and... End up a quad. That's what believing gets you.

I do believe in the goodness of humanity, and also in the evil of humanity... Which puts me right about at a cool, even neutral.

...The point of the metaphor was not addressed, so I guess I'll let it go.

However, please note that there is a thing called multiple quote system. Click reply, then mark the first bit of text you want quoted, click quote button, click enter after the quotation brackets, type your comment, repeat until done. Saves you from making a hundred posts to answer one inquiry.

EDIT: You might want to remove the original quote commands before you begin.

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "Byronazriel"Generally I don't like making statements of any sort about books I've never read, or people/gods I'm only dimly aware of.

You are happily assuming left and right though... Never stopped you before  :drool

World, and historical religions always make for an interesting read.

Besides, Aquaman got me into the legend of Atlantis ages ago.... And of course Space Invaders got me into space invaders.

Quote...The point of the metaphor was not addressed, so I guess I'll let it go.

However, please note that there is a thing called multiple quote system. Click reply, then mark the first bit of text you want quoted, click enter after the quotation brackets, type your comment, repeat until done. Saves you from making a hundred posts to answer one inquiry.

Righto, sorry.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"and the occasion novel.

At the risk of derailing this thread and never getting comments on my and others' yet unaddressed points, what exactly is it you write..? As a fellow author, I'm mildly curious.

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "Byronazriel"and the occasion novel.

At the risk of derailing this thread and never getting comments on my and others' yet unaddressed points, what exactly is it you write..? As a fellow author, I'm mildly curious.

Epic fantasy, poetry, steampunk, westerns... the occasional instruction manual, columns for the local newspaper. That sort of stuff... Oh, and the occasional fan fiction.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"Epic fantasy, poetry, steampunk, westerns... the occasional instruction manual, columns for the local newspaper. That sort of stuff... Oh, and the occasional fan fiction.

I do the first two myself. Can't stand number four though... Nor be bothered with number six  :hmm: )

EDIT: Actually, scratch the forum somewhere thing. Laid Back Lounge is the correct one for that. A new thread is a good thing though.

/End derail

Quote from: "Martin TK"Remember folks, young Byronazriel is only around 21 years of age.  He has never NOT known computers, the internet, cell phones, or Star Trek/Star Wars.  His reality has been influenced heavily by a very strong fantasy reality in Hollywood and to the young anything technological seems possible.

I remember being young and wanting to believe in many things, and as I grew older, the probability of their existence diminished until the reality of what is and what one wants to be, came more and more into focus.

Now, as for me, I believe in what can be proven for the most part; however, I do leave open a belief in some rather "spiritual" things like LOVE, and BEAUTY,  realising that both are subjective and open to individual interpretation.

Just a humble opinion from the Left.  LOL

I live in a dirt-poor, middle of nowhere backwoods town... I've only had a computer for six years, and reliable internet access for three of them, and cell phones don't work here.

Also you're thinking of the wrong kind of nerd, I was always more into comic books, anime, DnD, philosophy, and literature.

Hollywood fantasy... I get my fantasies from the proper sources: From books, the elders in my village, and from my own head!

Anything is possible, but improbable. I recognize that my beliefs are absurd, and I like it that way... The absurdities in life are what makes it interesting.

It's a big world out there, and it's part of a bigger galaxy, and a bigger universe... Which may, or may not be apart of something bigger, and so on.

I also recognize the spiritual in the mundane, see more about my posts on magic

Quote from: "Martin TK"Looking at your last statement that you believe in everything, that you are an all or nothing kind of guy, doesn't really work in reality.  You can't believe in Santa, unless you are speaking in terms conceptual belief, like one might "believe" that a cartoon character exists in the realm of fantasy.  Belief in reality does have certain limits, such as one might "believe" that one could exist in outer space without the assistance of a pressurized suit and oxygen, but we KNOW that isn't possible as we have limits imposed on us by our evolution and our dependence on our own planet.

I believe in everything, or rather that anything that can exist does in some fashion. So really I believe, in the possibility of anything. The concept of everything.

Howerver, for the purpose of keepign me out of any loony bins, I have devised a simple mental checklist for things.

Two catagories: Fiction/Non-fiction.

I define fiction as: Anything imagined or feigned.

I define non-fiction as: Anything presented as fact.

Anything that can be thought of, or imagined exists in some for somewhere. This belief of mine serves me very poorly when dealing with society. Thus the two catagories, and I put things that exist elsewhere into group one.

Everything else goes into group two. Namely: Things which exist here and now, in my objective reality... Which happens to include stick indians, and bigfoot. I've seen them, really. Also kappa, though it may have been a weird eel or something... or a beaver, maybe an otter.

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "Byronazriel"I don't believe that consciousness ends with death.

Why?

Hmm, mostly wishful thinking.

Of course some of it is that I don't know what's on the other side, just the ocassion ghosty that decides to bother me.

I honestly haven't a clue what goes on after death, I just find the idea of Summerland to be an appealingly romantic thought.

Quote from: "Asmodean"

QuoteI believe that anything that can be dreamed up, and deemed a god, is a an aspect of some greater force of reality.

"Greater force of reality"..? Define that, will you?

God, but also not God.

A being, or at least a thingie that makes stuff happen. Forces! The gas that makes science work.

Quote from: "Byronazriel"

Quote from: "Martin TK"Looking at your last statement that you believe in everything, that you are an all or nothing kind of guy, doesn't really work in reality.  You can't believe in Santa, unless you are speaking in terms conceptual belief, like one might "believe" that a cartoon character exists in the realm of fantasy.  Belief in reality does have certain limits, such as one might "believe" that one could exist in outer space without the assistance of a pressurized suit and oxygen, but we KNOW that isn't possible as we have limits imposed on us by our evolution and our dependence on our own planet.

I believe in everything, or rather that anything that can exist does in some fashion. So really I believe, in the possibility of anything. The concept of everything.

Howerver, for the purpose of keepign me out of any loony bins, I have devised a simple mental checklist for things.

Two catagories: Fiction/Non-fiction.

I define fiction as: Anything imagined or feigned.

I define non-fiction as: Anything presented as fact.

Anything that can be thought of, or imagined exists in some for somewhere. This belief of mine serves me very poorly when dealing with society. Thus the two catagories, and I put things that exist elsewhere into group one.

Everything else goes into group two. Namely: Things which exist here and now, in my objective reality... Which happens to include stick indians, and bigfoot. I've seen them, really. Also kappa, though it may have been a weird eel or something... or a beaver, maybe an otter.

In my profession, I would call you a young man with a vivid imagination, but without much in the way of direction.  Having imagination can be immensely helpful and in today's world quite profitable; but without direction or the ability to pull it into a single vision, you tend to drift and jump from idea to idea, as I see from you on this forum.

As for the rest of what you said about how you grew up, I will assume you attended school, and you were introduced to ideas there, such as literature and science, and even science fiction.  No matter where you grew up, your life was influenced differently than a generation ago, although you could have been one of those influenced less than others.  For instance, I grew up before color television was the norm, PC's didn't come along until I was in college; the calculator that you grew up using or having access to, I didn't see until I was in middle school and then the calculators were prohibitively expensive to own.  In just the last fifty years, there have been more advances in science and technology than there were in the previous of all history.  I was born before man went to the moon, before man flew into space, before the passing of the Civil Rights Act, and before Star Trek.  I say this simply to give you a reference for what I said, not because I was trying to belittle your age, in fact I envy young people today, mainly because I think you will see things in your lifetime that were just a dream during mine.

I am a skeptic by nature, but I will admit that I have hopes that there are things out there that we can't explain, like ghosts, and big foot, and so on.  So, like I said, keep on believing and keep on searching, and we'll debate the things I think are bunk, and respect each other's views.

[quote="Byronazriel]
God, but also not God.

A being, or at least a thingie that makes stuff happen. Forces! The gas that makes science work.[/quote]

So you mean your god is basically science and reason.?  Or is it???

I was wondering how much reading you have done on the subject of god and atheism?  Read any Dawkins or Hawking or Hitchens?  Of course there are a lot of older atheists that are good reading, too.  I can give you ideas on others to read.

Quote from: "Martin TK"

Quote from: "Byronazriel"God, but also not God.

A being, or at least a thingie that makes stuff happen. Forces! The gas that makes science work.

So you mean your god is basically science and reason.?  Or is it???

I was wondering how much reading you have done on the subject of god and atheism?  Read any Dawkins or Hawking or Hitchens?  Of course there are a lot of older atheists that are good reading, too.  I can give you ideas on others to read.

I wouldn't say that exactly... More sort of, have you heard of SkyNet? It's like that but with forces instead of robots... And hopefully less evil.

Quote from: "Martin TK"I was wondering how much reading you have done on the subject of god and atheism?  Read any Dawkins or Hawking or Hitchens?  Of course there are a lot of older atheists that are good reading, too.  I can give you ideas on others to read.

I've read Hawking, and I did a highschool report on a Dawkins book... It was something about phenotypes, I believe.

Not Hitchens though, had to look him up.

I've read the bible, mostly to figure what all the fuss was about. You see I was raised in a mostly secular household, but my granfather is A... one of the Christian denominations, it starter with P. Penatacostal, or Puritan maybe?

My grandmother was a Makah medicine woman, and told me a lot of stories that were passed down from my ancestors. That more than anyhting got me interested in spirituality.

I've done some reasearch on athiesm, not a whole lot. Just enough to get a feel for their beliefs, and I've frequented religous debate forums, which tend to have a lot of athiests for some reason...

I've read pretty much every Scott Cunningham book I could get my hands on, and I'm very familiar with the Norse, Geek, and Celtic pantheons and stories.

I'm also know a bit, though not very much about Shinto, and Bhuddist beliefs.

First, let me say that the OP should definitely stick around! I love Pagans! I love Paganism!

Second, I'm afraid it's not logical to believe something is real just because there's an historical account of it. Normally I would give an example, such as bigfoot, or giants, or unicorns to illustrate this. Unfortunately, you can accept things like tis as well. I see what you're saying though: It's a big universe. Everything must exist somewhere within it's dimensions.

If you tell me you believe in The Flying Spaghetti Monster, then you and I will instantaneously become friends!

Quote from: "KebertX"First, let me say that the OP should definitely stick around! I love Pagans! I love Paganism!

Second, I'm afraid it's not logical to believe something is real just because there's an historical account of it. Normally I would give an example, such as bigfoot, or giants, or unicorns to illustrate this. Unfortunately, you can accept things like tis as well. I see what you're saying though: It's a big universe. Everything must exist somewhere within it's dimensions.

If you tell me you believe in The Flying Spaghetti Monster, then you and I will instantaneously become friends!

None of the creatures you named are very fun, or counter intuitive. It's entire possible for large ape-like creatures to inhabit the forests of america, or giant humanoids, or horned horses...

Now wolpertingers, are a different story. They're my favourite lil' cryptids!

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.allmystery.de%2Fdateien%2Fuh60808%2C1267056375%2Cwolpertinger.jpg&hash=79daad7785b1ae0b312883c875b58fcb55b13a35)

See look, cute little bugger.

Now I certainly do believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I do not however wish to worship him... What is his domain?

I think it's fair enough to love Pagans, I like athiests... So it all works out!

Quote from: "Byronazriel"Hmm, mostly wishful thinking.

At least you are honest about it  

My young friend, I do hope you will stick around, this forum needs lively debates without all the dogma that we get from many who don't follow along with what we see as our world view.  Atheists, by definition, don't really have a belief "system" per se, more of a NON-belief system.  I do encourage you to read as much as possible, but not just the crap you can find on the internet, although that can be informative, too; it's just that real books tend to be more connective, in my opinion, and less transitive, and I just like holding them in my hands...

IF I had to really hold to some type of belief system, it would either be paganism or Taoism, as both tend to calm me when I read about them or think abou them.  The Tao Te Ching is a wonderful book, if you find a good translation, and if you just want a cute intro to the Tao, read the TAO of Pooh and the Te of Piglet; both excellent reads.

Well PEACE and have a GREAT church-free Sunday.... I'm gonna watch football until my brain locks up.  LOL

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "Byronazriel"Hmm, mostly wishful thinking.

At least you are honest about it  :bananacolor:

Quote from: "Byronazriel"Well I don't really have the cozy benefits of being rasied into religion, or a book with all the answers, or blind faith...

Probably why I like hanging around in athiest forums.  

I think believers of your kind are quite ok, actually. (Even if I tend to give your beliefs a rather cold reception)

You tend not to preach and believe just for yourself. Even though I may disagree with some of the opinions and ideas you hold, at least you are... Interesting. Can live with that.

Quote from: "Martin TK"IF I had to really hold to some type of belief system, it would either be paganism or Taoism, as both tend to calm me when I read about them or think abou them.  The Tao Te Ching is a wonderful book, if you find a good translation, and if you just want a cute intro to the Tao, read the TAO of Pooh and the Te of Piglet; both excellent reads.

Well PEACE and have a GREAT church-free Sunday.... I'm gonna watch football until my brain locks up.  LOL

The only stuff I know about Taoism, is what I learned from the TvTropes useful notes section on it.

When I get some money, I'll see about getting a book. Amazon would probably have one right?

I was under the impression that this was thursday...  

"I believe in the power of belief."-Robert Anton Wilson.

....and I tend to agree with Bob on this one.

Quote from: "KebertX"First, let me say that the OP should definitely stick around! I love Pagans! I love Paganism!

It really weirded me out when I saw this post: I'm saying nice things to OP. I moved to 4chan for a while, and apparently forgot how to say nice things to OP.

Time to start over with internet etiquette: post above this one is not a faggot. . .  

Quote from: "KebertX"

Quote from: "KebertX"First, let me say that the OP should definitely stick around! I love Pagans! I love Paganism!

It really weirded me out when I saw this post: I'm saying nice things to OP. I moved to 4chan for a while, and apparently forgot how to say nice things to OP.

Time to start over with internet etiquette: post above this one is not a faggot. . .  

4chan is definitely a corrosive place to hang out, it attracts the very worst of internet humanity, good thing you've got yourself out of there!