Happy Atheist Forum

I have a friend that is very religious. And I hate it when he tries to teach me how to live my life. I was religious for like a week and then I left, because I seen the whole BS that was involved in it.

So here is my last conversation with him in MSN i translated it myself:

Me: How are you, Alechko? (Alechko is a nickname for Alex)

Alex: Good evening, good week. Why didn't you come to the synagogue in the evening?

Me: I came back like 20 minutes ago. I don't have the stamina to go to the synagogue.

Alex: What have you been doing all day?

Me: What was I doing? I was working like a horse.

Alex: God have mercy... A Jew that works on Shabbat (a time between Friday and Saturday..)

Me: So what? I will die for that?

Alex: Off course. Because instead of connecting with God, you connect with other thoughts. That is death in spirituality.

Me: Listen, Alex, I respect the fact you are religious, but enough is enough. I don't want to hear about it. I have no mood for that right now anyway. It desn't help me right now. So, stop it.

Alex: But next time do not agree to work in Shabbat!

Me: And why's that..?

Alex: It's bad. It's a holly day for God. Why do you go against him? And after that you go and whine about your life? And you don't care about such an important thing?

Me: Enough... Alex, I really don't care... I will work in Shabbat, because unlike you, I have debts and payments to take care off. You don't, so you can allow yourself not to work in Shabbat. But unlike you i can not afford myself to not work in Shabbat.

Alex: You have 6 days to work, and you work specifically in Shabbat?

Me: What gotten into you? Leave me alone with this subject... Drop it...

Alex: I feel sorry for you.

Me: O.K., Alex. I am well aware that you are worried about me. But, the religious laws and God's will doesn't interest me right now...

Alex: If you have done your life by listening to God's bible, your life would have been better then what they are right now. And you know it is true, when you got a spiritual strength for a short period of time.

Me: And you are going to remind me that every day and week? Damn it, I do what i feel like to do. If i'll end up in hell, it will be because of me. If i'll go to heaven, it will be because of me. Enough already! I live my life the way i want it!

Alex: Hell and Heaven are the things you feel in this life. In the body you are living in. No one tries to scare you, on the contrary, because of the strong love God has toward you, he wants you to connect with him. As long as you keep resisting - your suffering will grow. Why do you do this on purpose?

Me: Listen, I don't do it on purpose. If fact, I have the right to live my life the way I want to live it. When I was shooting a web series, Yaniv (another religious neighbor of mine..) tells me to shoot a series about how a bunch of kids turn to religious people by the help of a Rabbi. And he acts like I owe him something. And now i worked in Shabbat, you show up and start to complain about it. I don't want to live my life the way you life it, or Yaniv, or God. Let me live my life the way I see right...

Alex: Fine, but I look at you and even you look at yourself, and you see that the freedom you give yourself bring you happiness. Stop denying that!

Me: Bro, I am not denying anything. And I didn't even say i am happy. Where, in all the stuff i wrote above, did you see me write that I am happy? Don't put words into my mouth. I am not going to say that I am happy, but I live my life the way i see it... And my way will get me somewhere one day... So, enough. If i'll have to die because of my ways, so be it. If i'll be happy and rich because of my ways, so be it. What matters to me, is that I live my life the way i see it...!

Alex: How do you know that it is YOUR will and not the will they gave you from above? Your will changes in a instant, and you know it's true. A person can one time want A, and then suddenly he wants B. Why do you let them pull your strings like a puppet? Can't you see this game they are playing?

Me: Listen, Alex... Don't... And I repeat... Don't you ever talk to me about religion! I don't want to hear it...

Alex: It's all from the "Bad Creatures" (A thing that stops you from doing the right things. Example: If you find a wallet, you start thinking: "Take the money or leave the money there?"). You'll get spiritually stronger once more one day.

Me: Alex... What do you want from me?! Enough already!

Alex: Why are you mad at me? I didn't do anything wrong.

Me: What would you feel if I will start talking to you only about wrestling? Everyday we meet, that will be my only subject. What will you say then?

Alex: But, wrestling has no connection to your soul, so it is not important...

Me: What's the difference? I can't tolerate religious stuff the same way you can't tolerate wrestling...

Alex: It's not true, because there are times you do listen. It's a power that makes you go against it... It's called "Bad Creature", nice to meet...

Me: Let me explain something to you. There are short times that I am willing to listen. And those stuff you were talking about were not connected to how I should act and what should I do or not do. Then I listen. But when you start preaching me about what I should and should not do... That's where it crosses the line of my good behavior...

Alex: Don't you remember the times you said you want to come back to religion?

Me: Yes... And it was from my OWN will right? When I wanted it... But I don't like it when people try to make me go there... It won't work like this...

Alex: It wasn't from your own will, it was a "awakening from above" that gives you strength for it. And that's what I am trying to explain you about how this strength effects all of us... But you don't understand...

Me: Because I don't want to understand... What couldn't you understand about that? I don't want to understand. It doesn't interest me. Let me live my life, don't try and change me...

Alex: Only God can change us, i'm just his tool...

Me: If that's what you say... I think it's time for you to be human and not a tool...

Alex: Did you even understood what i mean by "tool"? I am his messenger...

Me: Alex, let me tell you something, ok? The past time you studied Kabbalah, you never really talked to me the way you do now. But now you try and change everything in me. Doesn't it seem strange to you?

Alex: Even now i study Kabbalah, so? You need to go with the complaints to God about this. He sent me to tell you this. I am nothing... Zero...

Me: Alex, you know very well what I think about you saying you are nothing and that your a tool... You're not a zero, you're a human being... And if you keep talking like this, you'll turn to nothing. You might not notice it, but you are getting away from being human and you become more and more a tool. And that is something i don't like about you anymore...

Alex: Pavel, please stop. You take your views way too extreme and not me. There is a difference between knowing my place in spirituality, between knowing my place in company of people.

Me: That's the problem, you don't have it anymore. You are trying to be the same thing EVEN around a company of people. You don't notice it, but it's true.

Alex: No, let me tell you what is really happening here. You take it too extreme when I talk about religion. And you weapon of defense - is to tell me that i go crazy. You better ask people i work with in the army how i act there.

Me: OK, you know what? Here's an example for you. When I come to your house, you first talk to me about army and other stuff. Then suddenly you switch to religious stuff, and when you notice that I don't care about what you say, you switch back to regular stuff. Then you do it again. And that's how the wheel spins over and over again.

Alex: There is a rule that we must talk about religion in Shabbat. It's a holly day. That's why I did it...

Me: Alright, but did you forget what happened with Sasha (another neighbor of mine, not religious)? That because of this thing I had to leave?

Alex: And you left... What do you want from me exactly?

Me: What do I want from you? You didn't get what I wrote all this time?!

Alex: Pavel, there are people that are willing to listen to religion, and I do that for them. You can blame only yourself, I didn't do anything wrong...

Me: Now you are the one that is defensive and not me...

Alex: I don't need to be defensive, since I did nothing wrong...

Me: That's what you think. This is what is look like to YOU. You don't even notice how mad you make me feel. And I get to the the point where I start to really hate you. Because you became one of those religious people. You have no life, so you try and fix life of other people. Alex, I am very tired of explain it over and over to you. I am not going to do it anymore. Live your life, and let me live mine.

Alex: Fine, Pavel. Hate me. What will it give you?

Me: Wow... You really don't get it, do you? And now you are trying to use a reverse psychology.

Alex: Why does it even matter what I do? My goal is to make you realise that you are mad at me for no reason. Hatred for no reason - the cause for the fall of Holly Castle (I don't remember how it is called in English.. Sorry) and that's why the world is getting destroyed today.

Me: Are you kidding me? Hatred for no reason? I gave you facts of wrong things you do and you tell me I hate for no reason!?

Alex: You hate me for nothing. What did I say after all? I told you that God loves you, and that he wants you to connect with him. And why are you mad? What did I say?

Pavel: "God have mercy... A Jew that works in Shabbat..." That's what you said. Not what you wrote right now.

Alex: Yes, I did. Because it brings sadness. When one person does it, it effects other people. You might not realise it, but I do and it makes me said.

Me: What will I do with you? O.k., drop the subject...

Now, I don't know what to do. This whole religion situation changed him. He is different then what he was before that. And it makes me said that my best friend calls himself a tool. He even once said, that all his childhood is nothing compared to studying Kabbalah. He said that his life back then was meaningless and pointless and that now he really has a goal to live for. It saddens me that no one tried to stop it, when it all just started. He screwed up his entire life for a Kabbalah and love of God. I can't imagine what he will do if there will suddenly be no Kabbalah... He will probably kill himself... I'm worried. And I need help from you people to tell me what can I do to stop this?! I really need some help! PLEASE!

Do you consider him a good friend..?

Because from his disrespect of your expressed wishes, I'd say he does not view you as one. A friend is supposed to accept you as you are, not feel sorry for you or try to fix you - at least when you don't want nor need to be fixed.

What I, in my blunt and straight-forward manner, would do, is ask him what being your friend means to him. Compare to what being his friend means to you. If the gap is too big... Then you have a few choices you can make. One is look for new friends. The other is to grit your teeth and tolerate it, hoping for him to give up eventually. Some others still inbetween.

Conpromising with deeply religious people is notoriously hard when it comes to the matters of faith so... It's more about you finding out where you stand with him and where you want to stand. Get there if possible. Don't bother if it's not or if it wouldn't be subjectively worth it to you.

PavelRave,

I have been in an almost identical situation.  It wasn't my best friend but it was someone I have known since high school. (We used to ride dinosaurs together.)  She started sending me emails about her beliefs that seemed calm enough.  I responded something about the golden rule being common in all religions and off she went.  The conversation was almost exactly like the one you posted.  I would tell her over and over that I didn't want to discuss it but she would not listen.  I told her that if she couldn't respect my wishes I would mark her emails as spam. She has stopped contacting me.  It was sad for me to lose an old friend but she had no respect for me so friendship was no longer possible.

The experience did result in increasing my understanding of what it is like to be "love bombed". Before this experience I couldn't understand how people got sucked into cults.  Just imagine if you had five friends hounding you in the same time as Alex.  

Quote•Critics of cults use the phrase with the implication that the "love" is feigned and the practice is manipulative. "Love bombing" is often cited by critics as one of the methods used by some cults and religions to recruit and retain members. http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Love_bombing (http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Love_bombing)

If it were me, I'd have walked out as soon as he said "I pity you," and if he wishes to call, my condition would be to respect my lack of belief.  Of course, I wouldn't call him at all.