Happy Atheist Forum

I joined up a couple of years ago but I never went to a meeting.  I let my membership lapse. I'm thinking about renewing it.  I was wondering if any of you have been to a MENSA event and what it was like.

Quote from: "humblesmurph"I joined up a couple of years ago but I never went to a meeting.  I let my membership lapse. I'm thinking about renewing it.  I was wondering if any of you have been to a MENSA event and what it was like.

I took the test out of interest, and then realised they were not really the sort of people I wished to associate with. I imagine your chances of finding members here would skewed above the 2% margin.

SSY, what made you determine that mensans weren't the kind of people you would want to associate with?

I and my wife both took the entrance tests and both passed (she got 5 points more than me   ).

Neither of us joined though, basically because it required some things we were very short of at the time, time and money, as we had three kids under 10. What also put us off was the guy in charge in the UK, Clive Sinclair, who just came over as a complete tosser at times.

Quote from: "humblesmurph"SSY, what made you determine that mensans weren't the kind of people you would want to associate with?

The test was preceded by a small talk, mostly consisting of how awesome MENSA were, which came across as outmoded elitist bullshit to be honest, the whole thing left a very bad taste in my mouth. Whilst it was nice to finally receive a metered and reputable IQ test, that is all I got from my brief dalliance with MENSA.

Quote from: "SSY"

Quote from: "humblesmurph"SSY, what made you determine that mensans weren't the kind of people you would want to associate with?

The test was preceded by a small talk, mostly consisting of how awesome MENSA were, which came across as outmoded elitist bullshit to be honest, the whole thing left a very bad taste in my mouth. Whilst it was nice to finally receive a metered and reputable IQ test, that is all I got from my brief dalliance with MENSA.

I bet you are 160 or something

Quote from: "SSY"

Quote from: "humblesmurph"SSY, what made you determine that mensans weren't the kind of people you would want to associate with?

The test was preceded by a small talk, mostly consisting of how awesome MENSA were, which came across as outmoded elitist bullshit to be honest, the whole thing left a very bad taste in my mouth. Whilst it was nice to finally receive a metered and reputable IQ test, that is all I got from my brief dalliance with MENSA.

Thanks for the insight.  I don't have much faith in IQ tests, reputable or not.  I just took it to meet some atheists. I had been told that mensans were more likely to be atheists.  It didn't occur to me at the time to just look for a group for atheists, I really did think you guys were a secret society. I still don't know any real atheists personally.

I've been informed of discounts on products and services for mensans, but nothing better than I could find on the internet on my own.  Without going to the meetings, it isn't worth the fifty or sixty bucks a year.

I

Quote from: "karadan"

Quote from: "SSY"

Quote from: "humblesmurph"SSY, what made you determine that mensans weren't the kind of people you would want to associate with?

The test was preceded by a small talk, mostly consisting of how awesome MENSA were, which came across as outmoded elitist bullshit to be honest, the whole thing left a very bad taste in my mouth. Whilst it was nice to finally receive a metered and reputable IQ test, that is all I got from my brief dalliance with MENSA.

I bet you are 160 or something

You're too kind, I wish it was that high.

Also humble, MENSA was certainly the right place to go to meet atheist, what with the correlation and all. It could be different over the pond, or even just the guy administering the test, but that's the impression I got was a bad one.

Edit, I share your view of IQ tests, they measure nothing other than your ability to take IQ tests as someone once said.

Quote from: "humblesmurph"Thanks for the insight.  I don't have much faith in IQ tests, reputable or not.  I just took it to meet some atheists. I had been told that mensans were more likely to be atheists.  It didn't occur to me at the time to just look for a group for atheists, I really did think you guys were a secret society. I still don't know any real atheists personally.

I

 ;)

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "humblesmurph"Thanks for the insight.  I don't have much faith in IQ tests, reputable or not.  I just took it to meet some atheists. I had been told that mensans were more likely to be atheists.  It didn't occur to me at the time to just look for a group for atheists, I really did think you guys were a secret society. I still don't know any real atheists personally.

I

 ;)

Not on the forum you knave, save it for the bar-b-kid later this week.

I was offered a membership, but did not go for it

Nope, but I know a Young-Earth Creationist dumber than a sac of bricks who is.

I don't really see the point of joining.  I don't know if my last IQ score would qualify.

I'll go with the Groucho Marx position on this, as well as most other clubs.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"I don't really see the point of joining.  I don't know if my last IQ score would qualify.

I'll go with the Groucho Marx position on this, as well as most other clubs.

I suppose a forum doesn't really count as a club (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg34.imageshack.us%2Fimg34%2F2438%2Fheheoc.gif&hash=50cf1131f6316b9f48965cce1bfe1877dc8f90e7)

Quote from: "Sophus"Nope, but I know a Young-Earth Creationist dumber than a sac of bricks who is.

hahah.  I don't know why that's so funny to me. but it is.  

I'd like to be a member, but I can't figure out how to join.

When I was in seventh grade a teacher suggested I join Mensa after I blew away the Reader's Digest mini Mensa test he handed out.  Then, when I scored 1560 on the SAT test I took the next year, he suggested it again.  I couldn't see what such a group would hold for a thirteen year old girl.

Talking about IQ, and particularly talking about my IQ has only ever caused problems.  People learned I could play chess when I was a toddler so then people put pressure on my parents to make me perform in tournaments.  I got jumped ahead two grades in school only to get bullied and knocked around a little until I was switched back in with my age mates.  Adults found out I could do a reverse phone look-up on a big city phone-book in less than five minutes and acted as if I were a dog trained to perform tricks for them.

I never got to collect the wonderful scholarships I had amassed.  I have not cured cancer, nor gotten filthy rich, nor have I ended war.  And there are people who are disappointed in me because of these things!

Being intelligent only accomplishes so much.  I'm autistic and I could have done better with a set of social skills than with the ability to solve equations in my head, read a novel in less than an hour, or to play a bit of music by ear.  People were so busy putting me on display that I never actually learned the survival skills I needed.  People also took great enjoyment from the fact that I fell on my face when my parents abandoned me.

I don't think that an IQ test result requirement is enough to give the members enough in common to build relationships or to create a sense of community.  To pay out cash to join a club in which people have nothing in common but a desire to talk about their intelligence test results- it doesn't make sense to me.

Quote from: "mikex"I'd like to be a member, but I can't figure out how to join.

I so nearly found a link for you then  

Quote from: "Sophus"Nope, but I know a Young-Earth Creationist dumber than a sac of bricks who is.

That is -worthly right there.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"When I was in seventh grade a teacher suggested I join Mensa after I blew away the Reader's Digest mini Mensa test he handed out.  Then, when I scored 1560 on the SAT test I took the next year, he suggested it again.  I couldn't see what such a group would hold for a thirteen year old girl.

Talking about IQ, and particularly talking about my IQ has only ever caused problems.  People learned I could play chess when I was a toddler so then people put pressure on my parents to make me perform in tournaments.  I got jumped ahead two grades in school only to get bullied and knocked around a little until I was switched back in with my age mates.  Adults found out I could do a reverse phone look-up on a big city phone-book in less than five minutes and acted as if I were a dog trained to perform tricks for them.

I never got to collect the wonderful scholarships I had amassed.  I have not cured cancer, nor gotten filthy rich, nor have I ended war.  And there are people who are disappointed in me because of these things!

Being intelligent only accomplishes so much.  I'm autistic and I could have done better with a set of social skills than with the ability to solve equations in my head, read a novel in less than an hour, or to play a bit of music by ear.  People were so busy putting me on display that I never actually learned the survival skills I needed.  People also took great enjoyment from the fact that I fell on my face when my parents abandoned me.

I don't think that an IQ test result requirement is enough to give the members enough in common to build relationships or to create a sense of community.  To pay out cash to join a club in which people have nothing in common but a desire to talk about their intelligence test results- it doesn't make sense to me.

Well, the only benefit that I could see for me was group buying power. Groups like mensa and AAA get discounts on hotels and rental cars and credit card rates.  It does seem like gifted individuals like yourself might benefit from being around others with the same abilities.  I wouldn't know if  mensa is where to find them though.  

I'm sorry you had it so rough.  It's sad when people try to burden the young with such expectations. I hope all is well for you now.

I went to a couple meetings many moons ago.

Not my type either.  Many seemed socially awkward.  Constructing their next sentence from the "Dictionary of Really Big Words" just to impress everyone.

One meeting had a magician as entertainment.  The crowd seemed amazed at even the simplest tricks... Maybe this explains your Y.E.C.?

Smart-Ass in Smarty Pants,
JoeActor

I've been to a few meetings, which were a waste of time.  I didn't care for their elitist attitudes and unnecessary pedantic word choice.

Just my view, but intelligence and IQ do not mean a damn thing if you are lazy.  Some woman named Marilyn von Savant has the highest IQ ever measured at 228.  Now she writes for Parade Magazine, a respectable a job, but still not anything to write home about (pun intended).

Quote from: "joe716"I've been to a few meetings, which were a waste of time.  I didn't care for their elitist attitudes and unnecessary pedantic word choice.

Just my view, but intelligence and IQ do not mean a damn thing if you are lazy.  Some woman named Marilyn von Savant has the highest IQ ever measured at 228.  Now she writes for Parade Magazine, a respectable a job, but still not anything to write home about (pun intended).

I agree with the effort point. Without a goal and the practical application of effort to achieve that goal one is F*****! Of late the quality of kids coming out of school and university has taken a big hit not because they are not bright, they are just bloody lazy! The introduction in the UK of standardised target driven education with the national curriculum has turned education into extended training to task. This breeds a behaviour of expecting to be told what the answer is, not being taught how to find the correct answer. These kids default position is 'sit until kicked and then expect to be spoon fed', it is very, very worrying. Fortunately my kids were perpetually and sufficiently challenged to solve problems for themselves by myself and my wife.

I suffered from an overbearing father, who while never physically abusive, was always, always right (even when he was wrong!) so I tended not to bother debating him and adopted a rather passive role as a youngster. He was diagnosed with cancer when I was 12 and died two weeks after my 17th birthday so during that time I was never permitted my teenage rebellion. The result of this is that I'm reactive but without something to react too I do have a tendency to lack self motivation and will default to 'inactivity'.

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "joe716"I've been to a few meetings, which were a waste of time.  I didn't care for their elitist attitudes and unnecessary pedantic word choice.

Just my view, but intelligence and IQ do not mean a damn thing if you are lazy.  Some woman named Marilyn von Savant has the highest IQ ever measured at 228.  Now she writes for Parade Magazine, a respectable a job, but still not anything to write home about (pun intended).

I agree with the effort point. Without a goal and the practical application of effort to achieve that goal one is F*****! Of late the quality of kids coming out of school and university has taken a big hit not because they are not bright, they are just bloody lazy! The introduction in the UK of standardised target driven education with the national curriculum has turned education into extended training to task. This breeds a behaviour of expecting to be told what the answer is, not being taught how to find the correct answer. These kids default position is 'sit until kicked and then expect to be spoon fed', it is very, very worrying. Fortunately my kids were perpetually and sufficiently challenged to solve problems for themselves by myself and my wife.

I agree here, as soon as schools started being measured and compared on exam results, they started only training kids to pass exams (Goodhart's law). The exam results situation over here is completely moronic, 27 consecutive years of increasing grades, without a single dip ever. Of course now, this has built to the point where no one will tackle it because they don't want to be the bearer of bad news.

During my time at school, I noticed the way the system was geared as well. If you were a no hoper, no chance at all of getting 5 GCSEs, they left you, if you were actually a good student, and could get 5 GCSEs without a problem, you were left. The kids who were borderline were then given an inordinate amount of help, so they could just get the grades (in the UK, a common metric is the percentage of kids in a year who get 5 GCSEs with grades of C and up).

 I thought I would be free of it once I got to A level, but here, in order to boost average results, you were encouraged to take "soft" courses, I was heavily discouraged from taking my selection ( the three sciences and maths), and instead they suggested something easier for me. It is also normal to drop one your A levels going into the last year of schooling, but the school get's more funding if everyone takes 4 A levels in final year, so they encourage people to drop one of their subjects in order to replace it with "General Studies", a course with no lessons, no homework and no coursework, you just turned up and sat the exam. They made me take it even though I had declined to drop one of my subjects. This is to say nothing of the actual teaching was often consisted of studying mark schemes for last year's paper.

So, despite the fact I got top marks at school, when I stepped up to university, there were a couple of months of wild floundering where I sucked, and sucked hard in comparison to my classmates, before finally getting it together.

If I come off bitter, it's because I am, I honestly feel I could have more spent my teenage years more productively sitting in a quiet library without having to wrangle with all the "initiatives" my school foisted on us.

I'm not a member of MENSA, I don't even know what my IQ is and I don't care - from a measurement perspective the golden standard IQ tests aren't anything to truly get all excited about.  I'd be more apt to side with Howard Gardner and his theory of multiple intelligences which I think more accurately reflects human ability rather than solving little puzzles (I hate puzzles btw).  Even if I was told I was some super-genius, which I severely doubt, I have no want to join a "smart people" club...I'd rather hang out at a decent bar with my usual band of misfits and metal-heads.

Quote from: "joe716"Some woman named Marilyn von Savant has the highest IQ ever measured at 228.  Now she writes for Parade Magazine, a respectable a job, but still not anything to write home about (pun intended).

She had written something in her Parade column regarding psychopharmacology/psychophysiology (I think it had something to do with the effects of particular herbal supplements on specific ligands but I can't remember exactly what they were talking about) a while back which was inaccurate, I thought about writing in and correcting her information but I quickly realized that I really didn't care.

I have to say that I never joined MENSA, although I have known many people who have been members, and like one person said, I find most of them to be socially awkward.  As a psychologist, I have to say that there are some values to "testing" in my profession, but when it comes to intelligence versus education, over the years I have a LOT of evidence that one does not necessarily equate to the other.  Meaning, of course, that I have found many people with average IQ's who have achieved GREAT things in academia and I know quite a few "geniuses" who can barely tie their own shoes.

I use myself as an example.  I test very well, but I have this inability to be able to spell consistantly well, and though I have an earned PhD, I have never been able to figure out a way to parlay that into financial superiority.  The best I have been able to do is teach, but I have found great personal pleasure in that profession.  I have a friend, whose IQ might be questionable, who some might consider functionally illiterate (though I know better, he just doesn't like to read) and who is a millionare.  He took a simple thing, raising quail for hunt clubs in the South, and turned it into a multi-million dollar business.

I am thankful that I have learned and have the wisdom to know that there is value in everyone, regardless of intellect or educational achievement.  With age, thankfully, comes wisdom, or at the least the laziness to not care.

So to those of you who've had your IQ's tested by more-or-less official means and have taken the bullshit online IQ tests... how accurate are the results of the online ones? I've taken those, from multiple sites, and each time have gotten between 2 or 3 points of the same score. I'm wondering if it has one score, not too high to inflate egos and not too low to crush hopes, that it spits out to submit the test taker to myriad advertisements.  

On that note, however, one of the best and most creative IQ tests I ever took was in college off a website called thespark.com. The site, apparently doesn't exist any more. It had a collection of the "when will you die" and "how fit are you" type tests. The IQ test they hosted was a collection of probably 80-100 true/false questions. The test gave them to you 15 at a time. After about the 7th or 8th page, they would start to repeat. After a while longer they would all have repeated, and there was no more original questions. That's when I hit the x in my browser and went on living my day.

Later, I checked my email and had a results email. Apparently the score of the test was based on how many pages of redundant questions you answered before getting fed up. The record, according to the email, was 3,000 plus (mine was 40ish). Anyway, that calculated my IQ to be 130.

The online IQ tests I think are inaccurate, that is unless I have an IQ of 150-170 (I've taken many of them)... which I'm sure that I don't because when my IQ was tested when I was young was only 142. A friend of mine who had an IQ of around 150 always scored average (around 100) on the online tests. I think the best way is to have a test conducted by a professional. But I still do enjoy taking the online tests.

In the test I took at my school, I got 137.  Scores I've gotten on online tests have ranged from 122 to 168.

Quote from: "hismikeness"So to those of you who've had your IQ's tested by more-or-less official means and have taken the bullshit online IQ tests... how accurate are the results of the online ones? I've taken those, from multiple sites, and each time have gotten between 2 or 3 points of the same score. I'm wondering if it has one score, not too high to inflate egos and not too low to crush hopes, that it spits out to submit the test taker to myriad advertisements.  

On that note, however, one of the best and most creative IQ tests I ever took was in college off a website called thespark.com. The site, apparently doesn't exist any more. It had a collection of the "when will you die" and "how fit are you" type tests. The IQ test they hosted was a collection of probably 80-100 true/false questions. The test gave them to you 15 at a time. After about the 7th or 8th page, they would start to repeat. After a while longer they would all have repeated, and there was no more original questions. That's when I hit the x in my browser and went on living my day.

Later, I checked my email and had a results email. Apparently the score of the test was based on how many pages of redundant questions you answered before getting fed up. The record, according to the email, was 3,000 plus (mine was 40ish). Anyway, that calculated my IQ to be 130.

I'd have to say that some are quite accurate while others are just junk.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"

Quote from: "hismikeness"{snip}

I'd have to say that some are quite accurate while others are just junk.

Which if true renderers them all suspect, unless one can tell prior to taking then, which ones are accurate. What made you consider one tests less 'junk' than another?

Where's Youngblacksmart when you need him?

 

Quote from: "karadan"Where's Youngblacksmart when you need him?

 

LOL

He's too busy curing cancer you know.

I had mine tested, professionally, while in Graduate School, it was required, but I NEVER reveal it.  I have know those with very high IQ's who were about as useless as a box of rocks, and some who had average IQ's who have been some of the brightest minds I have ever dealt with.  I think IQ tests are not very useful beyond age five.

Quote from: "Martin TK"I had mine tested, professionally, while in Graduate School, it was required, but I NEVER reveal it.  I have know those with very high IQ's who were about as useless as a box of rocks, and some who had average IQ's who have been some of the brightest minds I have ever dealt with.  I think IQ tests are not very useful beyond age five.

I disagree to an extent, in my experience (though not as a scholar of the mind) I have noticed a correlation between IQs (where I know them) and people's aptitude for academic study. Though of course the correlation is at least a little fuzzy, you don't see people at top universities with sub 80 IQs and you rarely meet someone of 140+ who can't add up.

Edit: Perhaps disagree is not the right word, I think I have just noticed more of a correlation than you seem to have.

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "Kylyssa"

Quote from: "hismikeness"{snip}

I'd have to say that some are quite accurate while others are just junk.

Which if true renderers them all suspect, unless one can tell prior to taking then, which ones are accurate. What made you consider one tests less 'junk' than another?

I consider those tests on which I received a score within a few points of the scores I received when taking professionally administered tests and those which were also well-written to be better than those with apparently set IQ ranges or an apparent ceiling and those with poorly written questions.

Quote from: "humblesmurph"I joined up a couple of years ago but I never went to a meeting.  I let my membership lapse. I'm thinking about renewing it.  I was wondering if any of you have been to a MENSA event and what it was like.

Hello,

I was a Mensan where I grew up in former West Germany, where MENSA is known as MinD (MENSA in Deutschland). When I took the tests, it was administered to my entire school by three people, a neurologist and two psychiatrists. A few weeks after the test, my mother was asked to meet with the headmaster of my school. I remember wondering at the time if I was in trouble.

The three testers were at the meeting, too, and informed my mother that, though the test they administered was typically meant for ages 14 and over, I scored the highest in the school, and they recommended immediately enrolling me with private tutors.

All very unsettling to a 9-year-old.

But, after a number of years, I grew tired of the meetings, the fees, and the jerks I met at MENSA. Besides, I know that governments keep an eye on such organizations, and I didn't relish the thought of being tapped for working on the next technology aimed at precipitating mass death, so I simply let my membership lapse.

Oh, and just in case anyone is wondering, I'll keep my results to myself. The last time I revealed my results, was on another forum full of "reasonable and freethinking" people, who, upon hearing my results, freaked out (to put it mildly).

Quote from: "SSY"

Quote from: "karadan"Where's Youngblacksmart when you need him?

 :blink:

Many IQ test questions are education based so they test education v intelligence.  Other questions are figures and geometric patterns and those with some types of dyslexia are at a disadvantage.  Some questions test mathematical ability and those without training in mathematics don't do well.  Although all of the questions relate to intelligence, I don't think they truly measure anything so complex.  

I worked with kids with IQ's from 55-70.  In some of the children one could see a spark of higher ability just out of reach, unexpressed.

If you can not express it, it's pointless though, is it not..? Personally, I think IQ tests are quite adequate for their purpose and it's only right that you do not do well overall if you have some sort of mental or educational handicap.

Minor disclaimer: I'm not saying that an unintelligent person - understand the word however you please - is per default not likeable or of less value than a human supercomputer.

Quote from: "Asmodean"If you can not express it, it's pointless though, is it not..?

For these children it was pointless.  It was strange to see it though.  It was as though they were on the dark side of a cloudy glass.  I only saw this in children with genetically caused retardation.  I never saw it in the children whose retardation was due to injury during birth or due to poor diet in infancy.

Quote from: "notself"It was as though they were on the dark side of a cloudy glass.

A very nice metaphor. It may be that one day medical science will offer at least some of them a nice bottle of glass cleaners and they can explore and use at least as much of their potential as we old regular folks do.

Until then, however, they are, as you have put it, behind a stained glass in the dark, thus unable to use whatever potential is locked within. And ultimately, at the end of a day - or a life - it's the potential you use that matters and defines what you do - as opposed to who you are.

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "notself"It was as though they were on the dark side of a cloudy glass.

A very nice metaphor. It may be that one day medical science will offer at least some of them a nice bottle of glass cleaners and they can explore and use at least as much of their potential as we old regular folks do.

Until then, however, they are, as you have put it, behind a stained glass in the dark, thus unable to use whatever potential is locked within. And ultimately, at the end of a day - or a life - it's the potential you use that matters and defines what you do - as opposed to who you are.

It would be wonderful to correct genetic breaks and errors.   I agree it at the end of the day it is potential used that counts.  Of course potential without opportunity and appropriate education is lost.