Happy Atheist Forum

New atheists... Do you ever find yourself reaching back for your religion or other superstitions you've let go of when facing situations you can't control? The reason I ask is because tofay I had a job interview and I found myself thinking and feeling god is going to get me through this and get me the job. As soon as I walked into the door I thought to myself wait a minute the only thing that could help me get this job is to calm down represent myself well and display my knowledge. It made me realize that if I thought a supernatural being would give me the job I may not have calmed down and thought clearly enough to get through the interview. I would have assumed I had it in the bag. Did I get the job I don't know but I felt it went well and they want to meet with me again friday. Anywho, just wondering....

I take particular sayings of Jesus and find that they are as relevant and true today as ever. What is important here is not who they are attributed to, but their validity.  

Love your enemy - if you do, then he becomes your friend and neither of you has hate in your heart.

Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone - obviously I don't believe in the concept of sin, but that is irrelevant. Jesus is suggesting that no one has the moral authority to judge others since we are all imperfect.

The Parable Of The Good Samaritan - sometimes the people who help you in life are those you least expect and vice-versa.

The Parable Of The Lost Talents - don't waste or suppress any skill you have  - use it to the best of your ability.

The first two form my moral foundation. This is how I conduct myself. The world would be an infinitely better place if we all strived to do this.

Quote from: "zerofivetwoseven"I take particular sayings of Jesus and find that they are as relevant and true today as ever. What is important here is not who they are attributed to, but their validity.  

Love your enemy - if you do, then he becomes your friend and neither of you has hate in your heart.

Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone - obviously I don't believe in the concept of sin, but that is irrelevant. Jesus is suggesting that no one has the moral authority to judge others since we are all imperfect.

The Parable Of The Good Samaritan - sometimes the people who help you in life are those you least expect and vice-versa.

The Parable Of The Lost Talents - don't waste or suppress any skill you have  - use it to the best of your ability.

The first two form my moral foundation. This is how I conduct myself. The world would be an infinitely better place if we all strived to do this.

Those are just attributed to the Mythical Jesus, and actually have a basis in much older traditions.  There are many other sayings that are not religious that are just as motivating.  I'd look them up, but I don't have time right now.

There are lots of wise words in the Bible. Thomas Jefferson scraped off the superstition gave it a rinse and produced this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible)

for me, no, i just dropped everything even remotely related to it. It is mostly useless superstition, the rest of the stuff, deemed maybe useful, can be had from less contaminated sources. And i think you did well, by rejecting the notion that a nonexistent supernatural being would actually do anything to help or hinder your attempts at getting a job. Just collect yourself confidence, concentrate your knowledge and experience and perform a calm and concise presentation.

Quote from: "Tank"There are lots of wise words in the Bible. Thomas Jefferson scraped off the superstition gave it a rinse and produced this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible)

I look at the bible strictly as a piece of literature, and read it as fiction, when I read it.  I've read it several times, but it's hard to plow through, and so much of it is just garbage.  I agree that there are nugets of goodness within, but the atrocities always make me discount anything good, so it's a wash out for me.

It gets to me sometimes, especially in World War III moments of my life. But I immediately realize that being in that WWIII situation in the first place entails I should not expect help from someone up there who had the power to prevent the situation from arising. Clearly, religion and superstition, as applied to your case, is merely placebo.

Every so often I'll find myself thinking, "hey, you old bastard, if you're up there ... " and then laugh at myself.  Old habits die hard, don't sweat it.

I started refering to myself as an atheist about 3 months ago or some thing like that and hadn't really thought about it much but 2 days ago I had a friend of mine get lost while tubing in a river (and hasn't been found yet). And a was talking to his sister (also a good friend) trying to comfort her and several times I almost offered to pray for her and stopped myself.  I did end up praying for him figureing it wouldn't hurt anything. Thinking back I still think it was useless but she prayed with me and if nothing elce it helped her.

Quote from: "JustAJ"I started refering to myself as an atheist about 3 months ago or some thing like that and hadn't really thought about it much but 2 days ago I had a friend of mine get lost while tubing in a river (and hasn't been found yet). And a was talking to his sister (also a good friend) trying to comfort her and several times I almost offered to pray for her and stopped myself.  I did end up praying for him figureing it wouldn't hurt anything. Thinking back I still think it was useless but she prayed with me and if nothing elce it helped her.

I hope your friend is OK.    I've stood respectfully with people as they prayed because I wanted them to feel comforted and to support them.  I don't see anything wrong with that.  There's a time and a place for taking a stand and then there's times when I think it's better just to let people do their thing, even if I think their choice of thing is silly.

Quote from: "JustAJ"I started refering to myself as an atheist about 3 months ago or some thing like that and hadn't really thought about it much but 2 days ago I had a friend of mine get lost while tubing in a river (and hasn't been found yet). And a was talking to his sister (also a good friend) trying to comfort her and several times I almost offered to pray for her and stopped myself.  I did end up praying for him figureing it wouldn't hurt anything. Thinking back I still think it was useless but she prayed with me and if nothing elce it helped her.

I hope your friend is found safe and well.

The subject of comfort and the roll of prayer in comfort is a subject close to my heart and one that I have seen debated a lot. I know a lady who was diagnosed with breast cancer, she is an atheist. It has been very difficult and stressful to support her for both concerned as there is no higher authority to appeal to and one is totally at the mercy of the vagaries of 'lottery medicine' (the treatments are not guaranteed). One can do nothing practical to alleviate the core problem, in your case the lost friend in my case remove the cancerous cells.

I understand the issue of supporting a friend without the comfort blanket of religion, but I am nowhere near offering even a partial solution. I do agree that moments like this are probably not one where one should attempt to take away a persons comfort blanket.

Quote from: "JustAJ"I started refering to myself as an atheist about 3 months ago or some thing like that and hadn't really thought about it much but 2 days ago I had a friend of mine get lost while tubing in a river (and hasn't been found yet). And a was talking to his sister (also a good friend) trying to comfort her and several times I almost offered to pray for her and stopped myself.  I did end up praying for him figureing it wouldn't hurt anything. Thinking back I still think it was useless but she prayed with me and if nothing elce it helped her.

that hits too close to home, as I love floating down river...

I am so saddened and sorry to hear of it.  I often say in place of, "I will pray for you" I say, "I will keep you in my thoughts."

Yeah, every now and then I say prayer too because I know it is the sentiment that helps rather than whatever form it takes.  I want the person's comfort and knowing that someone cares.  It doesn't matter if it is "thoughts" or "prayers" or "belief" or "no belief."

My thoughts go out to you, your friend, and his sister.

They found his body today and I used the "keep you in my thoughts " line and I think it surprised her.  

She mentioned him going to heaven and I said mabye.  I'm pretty sure she took it like he might go to hell...

Quote from: "JustAJ"They found his body today and I used the "keep you in my thoughts " line and I think it surprised her.  

She mentioned him going to heaven and I said mabye.  I'm pretty sure she took it like he might go to hell...

When you first posted about this I thought the chances of finding your friend alive were remote, I'm sorry I was right about that. It's all a bit of shock when this sort of thing happens. At least he died doing something he enjoyed and wanted to do and didn't suffer the pain and debilitation of a chronic disease. I hope his siter can come to terms with his loss.

My condolences to those hurt by this tragic loss.

Sympathy in this time of trouble.
Chris

There is no reason to give up prayer just because one is an atheist.  One just eliminates the sky fairy and prays directly for someone or for oneself.  This form is a concentration on an wish, hope or resolution.  Here is an example that I pray all the time.  I start out concentrating on myself and then continue to family, friends, acquaintances and finally to those who p*ss me off.  Right now I am "praying" for Rush Limbaugh as the representative of the last category.

May Rush be well and happy
May he be safe and free from harm
May he be free from anger and ill will
May he be at peace
May his heart be filled with loving kindness.

This may not help Rush, but it certainly helps me.

I found myself in a similar situation as your self.  My wife and I were both laid off a few months ago and things got financially rough.  We would get into arguments, because of the stress.  We would get so many collection calls, that we just decided to ignore them, which was hard to do, because it was like 2 or three calls an hour.  It got to the point where I thought we would lose the house.  There were few times late at night where I would look and and say ...."a little help here".   1 month later, my wife and I were both employed and we are doing better..... still recovering.... but its way better.  This could be interpreted as an answer from god..... or it could just be that we both worked our asses off in finding a job, and that hard work paid off.

Quote from: "defiant1"I found myself in a similar situation as your self.  My wife and I were both laid off a few months ago and things got financially rough.  We would get into arguments, because of the stress.  We would get so many collection calls, that we just decided to ignore them, which was hard to do, because it was like 2 or three calls an hour.  It got to the point where I thought we would lose the house.  There were few times late at night where I would look and and say ...."a little help here".   1 month later, my wife and I were both employed and we are doing better..... still recovering.... but its way better.  This could be interpreted as an answer from god..... or it could just be that we both worked our asses off in finding a job, and that hard work paid off.

Ya, I think when we find ourselves in these situations we must remember that there are people far worse off than us (some of them children) that the all loving celestial being hasn't helped out so we should probably look for a way out ourselves because either he's not up there or he's super lazy.

Quote from: "NothingSacred"New atheists... Do you ever find yourself reaching back for your religion or other superstitions you've let go of when facing situations you can't control?

Although not a new atheist (I'm lifelong) I have in the past found myself doing something similar.

The last time this happened was back when I was a heroin addict, about 5 years ago (I've been clean for around 3 years now). I had just, rather hurriedly, injected myself in the arm in a friends bathroom. Suddenly my arm began to sting like hell and started to swell up and I felt like I was passing out. I thought -Shit I've gone and done it now, I'm gonna die! At that point I put my hands together, looked up, and said outloud 'Please God don't let me die, if I get through this I'll never ever do this again'

In actual fact it wasn't 'bad gear' or an overdose but I had just missed the vein and was experiencing citric burn in my arm muscle, 10 minutes later I was fine! It certainly made me think about what I had said in the heat of the moment whist fearing for my life though. I think, although I said 'PleaseGod' at the time, I was trying to get through to my own subconcious more than anything to make myself stop taking silly risks. It didn't work and the needle was back in my arm the same evening but it was one of the many things that eventually led me to getting clean a couple of years later.

I suppose if I'd had a religeous background I may have thought god had answered my prayers. I'd now be one of the folks at Narcotics Anonymous claiming that only by putting my faith in a higher power was I able to recover.

Quote from: "George"

Quote from: "NothingSacred"New atheists... Do you ever find yourself reaching back for your religion or other superstitions you've let go of when facing situations you can't control?

Although not a new atheist (I'm lifelong) I have in the past found myself doing something similar.

The last time this happened was back when I was a heroin addict, about 5 years ago (I've been clean for around 3 years now). I had just, rather hurriedly, injected myself in the arm in a friends bathroom. Suddenly my arm began to sting like hell and started to swell up and I felt like I was passing out. I thought -Shit I've gone and done it now, I'm gonna die! At that point I put my hands together, looked up, and said outloud 'Please God don't let me die, if I get through this I'll never ever do this again'

In actual fact it wasn't 'bad gear' or an overdose but I had just missed the vein and was experiencing citric burn in my arm muscle, 10 minutes later I was fine! It certainly made me think about what I had said in the heat of the moment whist fearing for my life though. I think, although I said 'PleaseGod' at the time, I was trying to get through to my own subconcious more than anything to make myself stop taking silly risks. It didn't work and the needle was back in my arm the same evening but it was one of the many things that eventually led me to getting clean a couple of years later.

I suppose if I'd had a religeous background I may have thought god had answered my prayers. I'd now be one of the folks at Narcotics Anonymous claiming that only by putting my faith in a higher power was I able to recover.

Congrats on getting clean. It's a hard habit to kick and I've got a few friends still wrestling with it. Maybe it's due my being ignorant but I didn't realize that those not raised as theists fell prey to the god begging situation. That's really interesting. I guess religion is so pervasive in society that those sorts of things could be ingrained in anyone. I think n/a is disgusting. Courts mandate that recovering addicts attend and they have a captive and vulnerable audience for theism.Have you ever attended a meeting ? If so what was it like ?

Quote from: "NothingSacred"New atheists... Do you ever find yourself reaching back for your religion or other superstitions you've let go of when facing situations you can't control? ...Anywho, just wondering....{quote] Absolutely no uhuh. There's not a superstitious bone in my body.

Quote from: "NothingSacred"Congrats on getting clean. It's a hard habit to kick and I've got a few friends still wrestling with it. Maybe it's due my being ignorant but I didn't realize that those not raised as theists fell prey to the god begging situation. That's really interesting. I guess religion is so pervasive in society that those sorts of things could be ingrained in anyone. I think n/a is disgusting. Courts mandate that recovering addicts attend and they have a captive and vulnerable audience for theism.Have you ever attended a meeting ? If so what was it like ?

I attended na regularly for around a year. Although it works for some people I can honestly say it made me worse. They say it's a non-religeous, spiritual programme and that the 'higher power', which you must put you're faith into, need only be 'the God of your understanding'. There were apparently atheists there, for whom the programme was working, who used things such as the universe, nature or love to be 'the God of their understanding' but I could not make any of these things work for me!

I made some good friends there, who were all 1 year+ clean and I thought were good role models. In the end all of these peole relapsed and I ended up using with them! After you have been taught how 'powerless over drugs' you are, when you relapse you kind of go with it, thinking that it's somehow out of your control and you just carry on and wait to hit your next 'rock bottom'.

I could go on all day about all the problems I have with the 12 step programme. It does work for some but for me (and many others I've known) it made things a whole lot worse. I was only able to sort myself out when I realized that I was the only person that could do it and that I was 'powerful' not 'powerless'..

The whole idea at the base of Christianity is to teach people to be powerless, especially over their flaws.

What mental/physcial process did you use to get clean of drugs?  Congrats, by the way.

Quote from: "notself"What mental/physcial process did you use to get clean of drugs?  Congrats, by the way.

Willpower, lifestyle changes, good friends and a long slow methodone reduction!

Quote from: "zerofivetwoseven"Love your enemy - if you do, then he becomes your friend and neither of you has hate in your heart.

Not likely. If I was that particular enemy and you suddenly decided to love me, I'd still oppose you - only with much more ease. One does tend to look after his own in situations involving enemies, does one not..?

Quote from: "zerofivetwoseven"Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone - obviously I don't believe in the concept of sin, but that is irrelevant. Jesus is suggesting that no one has the moral authority to judge others since we are all imperfect.

Any self-respecting sociopath would stone the bugger to death.

Quote from: "zerofivetwoseven"The Parable Of The Good Samaritan - sometimes the people who help you in life are those you least expect and vice-versa.

Expecting help might get a guy killed, you know...

Quote from: "zerofivetwoseven"The Parable Of The Lost Talents - don't waste or suppress any skill you have  - use it to the best of your ability.

If my skill being deployment of WMDs too..?

The Bookâ,,¢ is just SO full of holes...

Hey NothingSacred, did you get that job? I prayed for ya!!

Only kidding, I had my fingers crossed for you though! Just being nosey really..

Quote from: "George"I realized that I was the only person that could do it and that I was 'powerful' not 'powerless'.. :)

Quote from: "George"Hey NothingSacred, did you get that job? I prayed for ya!!

Only kidding, I had my fingers crossed for you though! Just being nosey really.. :upset: