Happy Atheist Forum

The next generations mythology

Not necessarily. It could just be tomorrow's Paganism. (Though I guess the terms are sort of synonymous... Eh well.)

Alternatively, it could be tomorrow's leeching, or phlogiston theory: "How could they believe that?"

Quote from: "Keithzworld"The next generations mythology

Why religion in the singular or do you think they'll all go the way of myths.

Quote from: "Tank"Why religion in the singular or do you think they'll all go the way of myths.

Perhaps I should have been more specific. When I say religion, I am speaking of religion as a whole, every religion. So yes I do think they will eventually become less of an influence in society and become nothing more than mythology.

Quote from: "Keithzworld"

Quote from: "Tank"Why religion in the singular or do you think they'll all go the way of myths.

Perhaps I should have been more specific. When I say religion, I am speaking of religion as a whole, every religion. So yes I do think they will eventually become less of an influence in society and become nothing more than mythology.

We have debated this question before but from a slightly different angle, specifically what would happen if atheism took over as the prevalent world view. We came to the conclusion that it wouldn't and that the best one could hope for would be a secular world where the big memes kept taking chunks out of each other.  So, the general feelings here are that religions will not become myths in the future  

Do you think they will be myths in the future, is so, why?

I don't think that religion will ever leave mankind, but I do think that Christianity will one day be to mankind what the ancient religions of the Romans, Greeks, and Egyptians are to modern man today.  I believe it to be inevitable.  If you look at mankind today, you see new religions cropping up, and we discount them as cults or fringe religions, but if you think about it ALL religions began that way.  It may simply be a matter of time before Mormonism or Scientology gain a real foothold in the world and replace Christianity and/or Islam, or perhaps there is a yet, unknown religion waiting in the wings.

Quote from: "Martin TK"I don't think that religion will ever leave mankind, but I do think that Christianity will one day be to mankind what the ancient religions of the Romans, Greeks, and Egyptians are to modern man today.  I believe it to be inevitable.  If you look at mankind today, you see new religions cropping up, and we discount them as cults or fringe religions, but if you think about it ALL religions began that way.  It may simply be a matter of time before Mormonism or Scientology gain a real foothold in the world and replace Christianity and/or Islam, or perhaps there is a yet, unknown religion waiting in the wings.

Your logic is sound as what you suggest has happened for millennia, however during that period there were two things that facilitated the continuation of mythology. One, there was no alternative viable world view, there is now, reality (as is scientific understanding). Two, practically infinite resources. In the future as resources become more and more scarce there will be no Sermon on the Mount to feed the masses, it will have to be scientific answers that save the billions from starvation and thirst. The game hasn't changed, but there's a new player in town  

Quote from: "Tank"Do you think they will be myths in the future, is so, why?

If you look at the much older religions for example, the ancient Greek ones which we now call "Greek Mythology. And understand and acknowledge that back in their time people really did believe in these faiths. But they no longer do. Why?

Well partially because Christianity took over and also because people just lost interest. I don't think atheism is going to take over, but I do think religion will become less of an influence, over a very slow and gradual period.

Quote from: "Keithzworld"

Quote from: "Tank"Do you think they will be myths in the future, is so, why?

If you look at the much older religions for example, the ancient Greek ones which we now call "Greek Mythology. And understand and acknowledge that back in their time people really did believe in these faiths. But they no longer do. Why?

Well partially because Christianity took over and also because people just lost interest. I don't think atheism is going to take over, but I do think religion will become less of an influence, over a very slow and gradual period.

I hope you are correct, in that religion will lose its hold in times to come. Whether it does or not may well be decided in the 'resource wars' that could well break out towards the end of this century and the result of the 'Singularity' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity). The end of this century will be a very different from the way it is now. How will the world cope with the potentially billions of deaths from starvation across Europe, Africa and Asia? Will they turn to science for salvation or superstition? If science can't save the people then the clarion call of the religious fanatic will be heard loud and clear. If we manage to give everybody a good standard of education and lifestyle then maybe, just maybe, the grip of superstition will be loosened if not broken.

My head wants religions to diminish, my heart doubts they will  

I don't anticipate humanity evolving past whatever drives us to develop religions.  Humans are curious things that want answers.  Religion offers answers to some of life's unanswerable questions.  There might also be a spot in our brain that hard wires us to have spiritual thoughts...so maybe we are all just a bit crazy too.

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "Keithzworld"

Quote from: "Tank"Do you think they will be myths in the future, is so, why?

If you look at the much older religions for example, the ancient Greek ones which we now call "Greek Mythology. And understand and acknowledge that back in their time people really did believe in these faiths. But they no longer do. Why?

Well partially because Christianity took over and also because people just lost interest. I don't think atheism is going to take over, but I do think religion will become less of an influence, over a very slow and gradual period.

I hope you are correct, in that religion will lose its hold in times to come. Whether it does or not may well be decided in the 'resource wars' that could well break out towards the end of this century and the result of the 'Singularity' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity). The end of this century will be a very different from the way it is now. How will the world cope with the potentially billions of deaths from starvation across Europe, Africa and Asia? Will they turn to science for salvation or superstition? If science can't save the people then the clarion call of the religious fanatic will be heard loud and clear. If we manage to give everybody a good standard of education and lifestyle then maybe, just maybe, the grip of superstition will be loosened if not broken.

My head wants religions to diminish, my heart doubts they will  

Tank, you have more of sociologist's brain than I do, so I defer to your reasoning, which I find to be very very sound.  I believe that we are at the threshold of either taking science to the next level, meaning we use it to care for the population of the world, or we use it to drive ignorance deeper into the minds of those we wish to control.  If that make sense.  To me, an educated society makes sense, to some I am sure there is value in keeping a certain segment of the world's population ignorant; although I can't imagine why.

Quote from: "Whitney"I don't anticipate humanity evolving past whatever drives us to develop religions.  Humans are curious things that want answers.  Religion offers answers to some of life's unanswerable questions.  There might also be a spot in our brain that hard wires us to have spiritual thoughts...so maybe we are all just a bit crazy too.

Both very strong points. As I have stated elsewhere the gap between knowledge and understanding (The Sun rises! Why?) is to my mind at the root of superstition and thus religion. And there may well always be such gaps in our understanding, the biggest of which is why our universe apparently came into existance 13.5 billion years ago. The human need for answers is insatiable and you are right that there will probably always be a need for unsubstantiated answers for the big questions. I suppose though that the ratio of those unanswered questions to the answered ones combined with societies ability to effectively disseminate those answers could effect the potency of religion as a viable world view. But it is a very complex question with no 'sound bite' answers available from a rationalist perspective whereas those with a religious world view can always chant 'God did it!'

The apparent oxymoron 'The Spiritual Atheist' is a question I have pondered a few times. I'm horribly materialistic, I don't get a 'wow' out of existance I'm rarely spiritual in my approach to life. The nearest thing would be feelings of love towards others. However there are people for whom their spiritual awareness is the driving force in their existance and for these people the world will always be a very different place to the one I perceive.

If humanity is to evolve past a need for religion it would appear to need to have to do it at two levels, Memes and Genes. The Meme war is highly dynamic and is going on right here and right now in every mind on Earth, but the Gene war (the hard wired need for spiritual thought) is almost infinity slower if one considers a human Gene generation takes 18 years and a Meme can change in the blink of an eye. So the battle is for hearts and minds and as has been stated elsewhere that is a battle of education.

Quote from: "Martin TK"

Quote from: "Tank"I hope you are correct, in that religion will lose its hold in times to come. Whether it does or not may well be decided in the 'resource wars' that could well break out towards the end of this century and the result of the 'Singularity' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity). The end of this century will be a very different from the way it is now. How will the world cope with the potentially billions of deaths from starvation across Europe, Africa and Asia? Will they turn to science for salvation or superstition? If science can't save the people then the clarion call of the religious fanatic will be heard loud and clear. If we manage to give everybody a good standard of education and lifestyle then maybe, just maybe, the grip of superstition will be loosened if not broken.

My head wants religions to diminish, my heart doubts they will  :blush:

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "Martin TK"

Quote from: "Tank"I hope you are correct, in that religion will lose its hold in times to come. Whether it does or not may well be decided in the 'resource wars' that could well break out towards the end of this century and the result of the 'Singularity' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity). The end of this century will be a very different from the way it is now. How will the world cope with the potentially billions of deaths from starvation across Europe, Africa and Asia? Will they turn to science for salvation or superstition? If science can't save the people then the clarion call of the religious fanatic will be heard loud and clear. If we manage to give everybody a good standard of education and lifestyle then maybe, just maybe, the grip of superstition will be loosened if not broken.

My head wants religions to diminish, my heart doubts they will  :blush:

In other words, IF science is not used to 1) educate the masses and 2) make their lives easier/better by making food more readily available, energy cheaper, and healthcare better; we risk creating a new generation of those willing to put their faith in the supernatural.  Thus, the statement on driving ignorance instead of enlightenment.  Hope that helps.

Quote from: "Martin TK"In other words, IF science is not used to 1) educate the masses and 2) make their lives easier/better by making food more readily available, energy cheaper, and healthcare better; we risk creating a new generation of those willing to put their faith in the supernatural.  Thus, the statement on driving ignorance instead of enlightenment.  Hope that helps.

I understand now and  think you are right that science needs to step up to the plate and be seen to be providing solutions to day-to-day issues as well as Big Science like the LHC.