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UK refuses to grant visas to Iroquois lacrosse team (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us+canada-10634044)

QuoteThe UK has said it will refuse to allow a Native American lacrosse team to travel to the country using passports issued by the Iroquois Confederacy.

Officials told the team they would be granted a visa at immigration only with documents considered valid by the UK, including US or Canadian passports.

The announcement came after the US cleared them to travel at the behest of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

The team says using other passports would be an attack on their identity...

Interesting. Do some people not understand international law?

Quote from: "Tank"UK refuses to grant visas to Iroquois lacrosse team (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us+canada-10634044)

QuoteThe UK has said it will refuse to allow a Native American lacrosse team to travel to the country using passports issued by the Iroquois Confederacy.

Officials told the team they would be granted a visa at immigration only with documents considered valid by the UK, including US or Canadian passports.

The announcement came after the US cleared them to travel at the behest of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

The team says using other passports would be an attack on their identity...

Interesting. Do some people not understand international law?

Well international law is more complicated than understanding the law of ones own country. However it should be simple to understand that if one wants to visit a country, they should expect to follow the laws of that country. Secondly, I don't see how using a passport that complies with the UK's standards is an attack on their identity... but maybe there is something that I'm missing.

I can understand why they would be upset.  It'd be like if the UK told Americans - sorry, your passports from your country aren't legally recognized here.  You'll have to get an accepted passport - from Canada or Mexico.  They feel like their distinction from the US and Canada is important, so it's offensive when a country rejects that distinction.

Quote from: "pinkocommie"I can understand why they would be upset.  It'd be like if the UK told Americans - sorry, your passports from your country aren't legally recognized here.  You'll have to get an accepted passport - from Canada or Mexico.  They feel like their distinction from the US and Canada is important, so it's offensive when a country rejects that distinction.

I understand that. But is the Iroquois nation recognised by the United Nations? I don't think so. If it were then it could issue it's own passports. Until then it's an issue with the UN, not the UK, or any other sovereign nation. I can see the emotional drivers here but it just looks like a case of 'bleeding heart special pleading' from the outside. It detracts from their credibility in my eyes. If I were them I would be pushing for true independence, the creation of an independent sovereign nation and satiation from the Union. Anything else is just wanting your cake and eating it while bleating pathetically in the mean time. 'I want this 'cause your great grand pappy killed my great grand pappy!' so you've got to feel guilty and pretend I'm special. Sorry gets my gander up  

This actually started when the US refused to recognize (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/07/12/2010-07-12_iroquois_lacrosse_team_banned_from_flying_overseas_us_refuses_to_recognize_tribe.html) their passports.  Now that Clinton has made a special dispensation for them, the UK is simply following along with the original US position.  Not surprising to me; I know from personal experience that the UK can be sticklers when it comes to immigration matters.  It's really a shame though, on both the US and the UK.

Quote from: "Recusant"This actually started when the US refused to recognize (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/07/12/2010-07-12_iroquois_lacrosse_team_banned_from_flying_overseas_us_refuses_to_recognize_tribe.html) their passports.  Now that Clinton has made a special dispensation for them, the UK is simply following along with the original US position.  Not surprising to me; I know from personal experience that the UK can be sticklers when it comes to immigration matters.  It's really a shame though, on both the US and the UK.

If the passport is a legally recognised passport document then fine no problem, but this does not appear to be the case, or have I missed something here?

Quote from: "Tank"If the passport is a legally recognised passport document then fine no problem, but this does not appear to be the case, or have I missed something here?

The Haudenosaunee passports, according to the story that I linked (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/07/12/2010-07-12_iroquois_lacrosse_team_banned_from_flying_overseas_us_refuses_to_recognize_tribe.html), have been recognized for the past 20 years.  I'm not sure which tight-ass in the US decided that they are no longer acceptable, but it's been several years since heightened airport security and associated repression of civil liberties came into effect.  So it's not as if they had not re-entered the US on these documents before now, even in the present security conscious environment.

Quote from: "Recusant"

Quote from: "Tank"If the passport is a legally recognised passport document then fine no problem, but this does not appear to be the case, or have I missed something here?

The Haudenosaunee passports, according to the story that I linked (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/07/12/2010-07-12_iroquois_lacrosse_team_banned_from_flying_overseas_us_refuses_to_recognize_tribe.html), have been recognized for the past 20 years.  I'm not sure which tight-ass in the US decided that they are no longer acceptable, but it's been several years since heightened airport security and associated repression of civil liberties came into effect.  So it's not as if they had not re-entered the US on these documents before now, even in the present security conscious environment.

Hmmm sounds like an uppity bureaucrat getting too big for their boots. If the US won't accept the people travelling on these passports back into the US then they won't be able to travel anywhere. If they have travelled on these passports before then they should probably be allowed to do so now, unless a spanner has been thrown in the works elsewhere that we don't know about.

It's a shame the article doesn't state the reason for the US not recognizing the passports.  That would clarify much.