Happy Atheist Forum

So, a year and a half into his presidency, what do people on this forum think?  An intelligent, long term strategic thinker, or a tool in way the hell over his head?

I hate to say it, but in my opinion he gives the impression that he is a man overwhelmed by the power of the presidency.

While I find your negative view of President Obama unsurprising, Ned, I am pleasantly surprised by the restrained language you used to express it.  

I was not a backer of the candidate Obama.  I'm not a huge fan of President Obama, either, but I think that he's handled himself fairly well.  I see him as merely another centrist politician, contrary to the ravings of the far right elements of the US population, who see him as some kind of pinko out to destroy the "American way."  I think that these people have decided to hate anything other than leaders who pander to their myopic view of the world.  They are encouraged and egged on by such mendacious blowhards as Beck, Savage and Limbaugh.  These tendencies toward extreme divisiveness, including mutterings of "armed rebellion," do the US no good at all, so I look at this trend as much more "anti-American" than President Obama will ever be.

That said, President Obama is such a huge improvement over his predecessor that any fault I find in him seems very minor in comparison.

Quote from: "Recusant"That said, President Obama is such a huge improvement over his predecessor that any fault I find in him seems very minor in comparison.

I can't argue with that!

President Obama has so far signed an Act to include sexual orientation and gender identity to the hate crimes law. Has fought tirelessly to remove DADT from the military. Is trying to get DOMA removed. He is trying to make this a nation of equality. Unlike many other presidents, he has tried hard to keep his promises, and has done well so far.  I personally think that President Obama is the best president we have had at least since Kennedy. Yes, he is going slow, but he has looked at things with a secular eye, and has fought toot and nail for equality, we can't ask much more than that.

I like President Obama for two reasons and have ONE bone to pick with him.  First, I am proud that Americans voted for and elected an African-American for the Presidency in my lifetime, which I never thought would happen.  As I grew up in the Deep South and saw a LOT of the sadness inflicted upon African-Americans in my youth, and then the Civil Rights Movement, this is a great break through.  I know the arguments that he was elected only because he is African-American, but I don't buy that and he is a HUGE improvement over the idiot from the previous eight years.  Secondly, I feel he brings back the true sense of what a President should be for this nation, a man with confidence and poise, even in the face of adversity.

My bone is that here is a man who taught constitutional law, and has stated that his administration will appeal the recent lower court ruling that the National Day of Prayer is unconstitutional.  I truly believe that Obama is an atheist, if by nothing else but his actions, and is now appealing to the Right Winged Faith-Heads with this move.  Just my opinion.

He's not a perfect politician of course, and I'm not sure such a thing exists. However, he is a huge step up from where we've been recently. I admire the progression he has made, as noted by GAYtheist, including on Health Care Reform although I would have been better if they stuck with the original plan. He has also improved our world image and relations greatly, is nominating honorable people like Kagan to the Supreme Court, and he didn't let the fact that he received campaign money from BP stop him from getting on to them (unlike Mr. "I apologize to BP for this shakedown." who, BTW, received more money from BP than anyone else). Although I would have preferred it if Obama came up with a good plan for getting off oil and made a promise that we will get off it.

Despite all of this, my favorite thing about him is that he is not a vain war pig like Bush. We need leadership that looks to prevent war at all costs, not makes up lies about weapons of mass destruction so as to avenge daddy.

Unfortunately, if the economy isn't better by 2012 there is no way he will be re-elected. The reason I say "unfortunately" is because we will probably end up with whoever the Republicans end up picking. We may have a Tea Bagger as President. This deeply worries me.

Quote from: "Sophus"Unfortunately, if the economy isn't better by 2012 there is no way he will be re-elected. The reason I say "unfortunately" is because we will probably end up with whoever the Republicans end up picking. We may have a Tea Bagger as President. This deeply worries me.

I think it depends on who the Republican nominee is.  I wouldn't give the Tea Baggers that much credit, though.  They're loud and they get a lot of attention because they're batshit insane, but I don't think they're nearly as popular as their leaders/propaganda would have everyone believe.  Or maybe I'm just an optimist living in a liberal oasis, which is also possible...

As far as I know, he's the first president to acknowledge that American atheists exist, and are valid members of the country, and for that he will always have my gratitude.

As far as what kind of president he is, the jury's still out. I remain optimistic, though!

In a year and a half, Obama has accomplished more than Bush ever did in an entire 8 years.  I get tired of people claiming he hasn't kept his campaign promises, when he very obviously is trying to.  He has been pushing health care since he got into office, which was a major component of his platform.  People want so much of him without realizing what he is battling against to get reforms passed.  Law making is a slow-process, and it's like people expect him to be pushing 80 or 90 new laws at a time, when it just doesn't work that way.  You don't have to like what Obama is pushing, but you can't claim he hasn't made changes.  He certainly hasn't spent 8 months vacationing while the nation is in crisis.

As a woman, I was overjoyed when he decreed that abortion providers could receive government funding.  It was always one of my pet peeves that places like Planned Parenthood, that do more than just provide abortions, could not receive funding just because of one service they provide.  The only reason to deny funding is very clearly rooted in religious belief, which is entirely inappropriate when deciding how federal monies are allocated.  I love my PP, because I feel like the people there actually give a shit about my health.  When I was an unemployed grad student, they usually told me not to worry about it, or to only throw up $5 when I went in to get my BC.  They were more concerned with me as a person than getting money out of me.

I'm also pleased to see that he is working to bring equal rights to the GLBT community, as some of my closest friends are gay.

While I'm not really keen on the health care plan that is currently circulating, I will give it to him for following through on his plan for socialized health care.  I hope he works harder to bring a public option to the table.

Quote from: "Sophus"Unfortunately, if the economy isn't better by 2012 there is no way he will be re-elected. The reason I say "unfortunately" is because we will probably end up with whoever the Republicans end up picking. We may have a Tea Bagger as President. This deeply worries me.

A rookie campaign manager could take Sarah Palin in about 10 days, I think, between her ethics investigation and her sudden resignation.  The best thing that could happen for Obama would be for a Tea Party Republican to be nominated in 2012.

He seems honest. That goes a long way in my book.

All I can say is IF, and I hope it's a big IF, Sarah Palin is nominated in 2012 and somehow wins the election, I will move to England, because the United States of America will be unsafe for any and all atheists.  Mark my words.

Yeah, I wouldn't buy those tickets yet.  There's a gravitational field that keeps her feet in her mouth.

Quote from: "Martin TK"All I can say is IF, and I hope it's a big IF, Sarah Palin is nominated in 2012 and somehow wins the election, I will move to England, because the United States of America will be unsafe for any and all atheists.  Mark my words. :bananacolor:  :eek:

(best thing that could happen for the dems...)

Yeah, as a campaign manager, I could run Kim Jong-Il against that ticket and stand a reasonable chance of winning.  After all, he can see Russia too.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"Yeah, as a campaign manager, I could run Kim Jong-Il against that ticket and stand a reasonable chance of winning.  After all, he can see Russia too.

I don't have that much faith in the American voters. I really, really don't. When the economy is bad history shows that voters always make the switch.

Quote from: "joeactor"

Quote from: "Martin TK"All I can say is IF, and I hope it's a big IF, Sarah Palin is nominated in 2012 and somehow wins the election, I will move to England, because the United States of America will be unsafe for any and all atheists.  Mark my words. :bananacolor:  :eek:

(best thing that could happen for the dems...)

It still makes me puke in my mouth a little.

As a woman, it would piss me off to no end if Palin won for president.  It'd be like Leela being the first Blurnsball player on Futurama - an embarrassment to the gender.  

Quote from: "pinkocommie"As a woman, it would piss me off to no end if Palin won for president.  It'd be like Leela being the first Blurnsball player on Futurama - an embarrassment to the gender.  

And I just saw that rerun like a week ago.

I think if Palin got to be the US president the rest of the world would revoke the US passport for the duration as there would be so many people trying to get out, hell I bet even Cuba would have Americans trying to get IN!

Palin has a following, although I can't tell if it's truly gone up or down since the election.

Quote from: "John McCain"Over 50 million people voted for me and Sarah Palin - mostly for Sarah Palin.

If Obama has not followed through on some of his campaign promises, it's because the republicans decided from day 1 to play hardball by not even trying to be nonpartisan.  Then they sit back and accuse him of not following through.  

My mother, a die-hard republican, is convinced he's part of the "Chicago power politics" group, who are "as dirty as the day is long," then in the next breath, say how he is just a figurehead with all of his minions doing the decision-making for him.  Um... can't be both.  Gotta pick one.  Yeah, she watches Fox.

If the republicans win the next election... or rather WHEN they win the next election... they will run the country into the ground and we will have no one to blame but ourselves.  The democrats get power and try to be diplomatic and nonpartisan... and fail miserably.  Then the republicans get power and say "screw you" and take over.  We never stood a chance.

Rendition is still government policy under Obama and Guantanamo prison is still open.  These are two big, related problems for me.  Obama is also too fond of certain sections of the Patriot act. The condition of our civil liberties has only slightly improved during the past 18 months.

Quote from: "Martin TK"All I can say is IF, and I hope it's a big IF, Sarah Palin is nominated in 2012 and somehow wins the election, I will move to England, because the United States of America will be unsafe for any and all atheists.  Mark my words.

You and half the academics in the US.

I'm sure that a Palin victory would be...lets say...a boon for British universities. Lots of good staff emigrating, lots of bright Americans applying to study here.

Biology departments would no doubt benefit most of all.

Quote from: "Sophus"Palin has a following, although I can't tell if it's truly gone up or down since the election.

Quote from: "John McCain"Over 50 million people voted for me and Sarah Palin - mostly for Sarah Palin.

That's because she was second on the ticket, and access to her -- meaning opportunity for gaffes -- was severely restricted.  Put her at the top of the ticket and watch her come unglued.

Quote from: "Sophus"I don't have that much faith in the American voters. I really, really don't. When the economy is bad history shows that voters always make the switch.

The Dems will almost certainly lose ground in the midterms.  If Obama can get us out of SW Asia, he will win, for both financial and political reasons.  

What y'all are forgetting is that extremists garner more attention that MOR condidates.

Quote from: "pinkocommie"As a woman, it would piss me off to no end if Palin won for president.  It'd be like Leela being the first Blurnsball player on Futurama - an embarrassment to the gender.  :blush: Not that it matters, but, yea...ANYWAY, how about the weather lately though? It's been beautiful out here.

Quote from: "GAYtheist"

Quote from: "pinkocommie"As a woman, it would piss me off to no end if Palin won for president.  It'd be like Leela being the first Blurnsball player on Futurama - an embarrassment to the gender.  :blush: Not that it matters, but, yea...ANYWAY, how about the weather lately though? It's been beautiful out here.

Yeah, everyone thinks I'm a guy at first.   I don't know if that's good or bad or just what it is.  :D

(sorry for the minor derail - back to US political conjecture...)

Quote from: "pinkocommie"

Quote from: "GAYtheist"

Quote from: "pinkocommie"As a woman, it would piss me off to no end if Palin won for president.  It'd be like Leela being the first Blurnsball player on Futurama - an embarrassment to the gender.  :blush: Not that it matters, but, yea...ANYWAY, how about the weather lately though? It's been beautiful out here.

Yeah, everyone thinks I'm a guy at first.   I don't know if that's good or bad or just what it is.  :D

(sorry for the minor derail - back to US political conjecture...)

OK, now color me jealous. We need to get together and hang sometime. I don't think we live that far from each other, do we?

I don't think we're terribly far from each other, no.  Just about every Sunday I'm in Northgate to help out on the local Ask An Atheist program, and otherwise I live in Auburn which is what - an hour drive to Woodinville (isn't that where you live?  For some reason, that's what I remember...) on 405?  If that?  So yeah, we SHOULD hang out sometime!  =D

Quote from: "pinkocommie"I don't think we're terribly far from each other, no.  Just about every Sunday I'm in Northgate to help out on the local Ask An Atheist program, and otherwise I live in Auburn which is what - an hour drive to Woodinville (isn't that where you live?  For some reason, that's what I remember...) on 405?  If that?  So yeah, we SHOULD hang out sometime!  =D

Cool, only conceivable problem is that I don't have a car, or a job, so you'd have to come to Woodinville...go figure. But totally, If you want, IM me and Ill give you my number, cool?

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"

Quote from: "Sophus"Palin has a following, although I can't tell if it's truly gone up or down since the election.

Quote from: "John McCain"Over 50 million people voted for me and Sarah Palin - mostly for Sarah Palin.

That's because she was second on the ticket, and access to her -- meaning opportunity for gaffes -- was severely restricted.  Put her at the top of the ticket and watch her come unglued.

I hope you're right. Either way, I am betting our next President will be a Republican if the economy doesn't improve. And that, I am not looking forward to. The majority of Republicans of today seem to be hard-headed extremists. If they do the things they say they want to do, especially as far as tax cuts are concerned, the deficit is going to sky-rocket, exactly as it did with Bush. Against this way of thinking, it just amazes me that Obama can somehow have such a descending approval rating.
How can we revert back to Bush politics so quickly? Bluh... The dems are already losing other elections. There's such a strong trend of voting in conservative non-career-politicians that the man leading in the polls for governor of Florida right now is a crook whose hospitals committed the largest case of MediCare Fraud ever, resulting in the largest fine paid to the government - ever! Yet people don't care. They don't look into the issues, they just think, "Times are rough, the economy sucks... Here's a new face! Let's go with him!"

Is there any useful information out there regarding the nature of approval ratings in election vs. non-election years?  I think once the election draws closer, people will start rallying behind him again, because the majority of republican politicians out there are either crazy or pander to crazy and most sane people know it.  I honestly think a majority of people realize just how unstable and ridiculous the republican party is right now, they're just a quieter group so it seems like the republicans are carrying more weight than they actually do.  I do agree that the economy will be a big issue this next election, people are pissed off and it's going to be exploited big time by all sides to get votes.  Blegh.

The Republican party will probably do very well in the coming elections, and their control of the legislative branch will be ensured for at least a couple of years.  Despite blatant hypocrisy and pandering to the wealthy such as is exemplified by this op-ed piece (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jul/15/republicans-dont-give-damn-about-deficit). Not to mention this "brilliant" plan (http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/07/08/moore-tax-poor/).

The USA gulag, Guantanamo Bay.  First it's the Muslims; who's next?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/21/us/21 ... ml?_r=1&hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/21/us/21gitmo.html?_r=1&hp)

QuoteThe 13-page “Media Policy and Ground Rules” packet, which every reporter who travels to Guantánamo must sign, dictates how photos can be taken, who can be interviewed and even what reporters can write in their notebooks...

...In addition to raising constitutional questions about the limits the government can impose on the press, the clash between the Pentagon and the media highlights broader issues of how secretive the military commissions at Guantánamo remain. The lack of public access to the commissions has also proven to be problematic for the Obama administration, which has vowed greater transparency but continues to allow the Guantánamo proceedings to operate in the shadows.

Living abroad, it is hard to judge the US president on his performance. When he gave his speech here in Germany, I regarded him as a nice looking, sympathetic guy, who knew how to charm his audiences with great speeches. But, these attributes doesn't make a president great. It is the actions that he takes as a president what counts. In that respect, I'm highly disappointed about Obama. Take for example the way he "handled" the oil spill. Apparently he was more concerned about saving his own face on TV than solving the problem. You need a president that get things done, someone who doesn't let things go from bad to worse and who keeps his promises. I surely hope that Obama will show greater leadership during the remainder of his time in office, by his actions instead of his words.

Quote from: "pinkocommie"Is there any useful information out there regarding the nature of approval ratings in election vs. non-election years?  I think once the election draws closer, people will start rallying behind him again, because the majority of republican politicians out there are either crazy or pander to crazy and most sane people know it.  I honestly think a majority of people realize just how unstable and ridiculous the republican party is right now, they're just a quieter group so it seems like the republicans are carrying more weight than they actually do.  I do agree that the economy will be a big issue this next election, people are pissed off and it's going to be exploited big time by all sides to get votes.  Blegh.

The President's party almost always loses in mid-term elections, historically.  Reagan and Clinton both lost both houses of Congress in their first mid-term elections, and yet are regarded as very successful presidents.

You're right in saying that the extremists grab the headlines.

Personally, were I a Democratic campaign manager, I'd hammer my Republican opponent with his "no" vote on unemployment extensions, paint them as heartless in the middle of the worst economy in 80 years, and guarantee my employer his job.

Were I Republican campaign manager, I'd harp on the continued economic doldrums, and hope no one noticed my votes in favor of bailing out Wall Street yet rejecting unemployment extensions.

Quote from: "Tom62"Take for example the way he "handled" the oil spill. Apparently he was more concerned about saving his own face on TV than solving the problem. You need a president that get things done, someone who doesn't let things go from bad to worse and who keeps his promises. I surely hope that Obama will show greater leadership during the remainder of his time in office, by his actions instead of his words.

I don't understand what people think a President can do about a situation like that. I wish his speech regarding the spill had been more strong and promised greater action to get America off oil, but honestly a President cannot take much immediate action in this case. He can't invent the technology to fix a leak that deep when the technology for fixes hasn't improved over the last 20 years. Obama struck a very nice deal with BP which will allow them to pay more for clean-up than they are required to by law, and he should pass tougher regulations for oil companies. But I don't get why people call this his Katrina. We had the resources to do more in the Katrina aftermath. We had to wait for a proper solution to be developed for the Gulf Oil Spill.

Quote from: "Tom62"Take for example the way he "handled" the oil spill. Apparently he was more concerned about saving his own face on TV than solving the problem. You need a president that get things done, someone who doesn't let things go from bad to worse and who keeps his promises. I surely hope that Obama will show greater leadership during the remainder of his time in office, by his actions instead of his words.

All he had to do was call in the Thunderbirds.

Quote from: "Sophus"I don't understand what people think a President can do about a situation like that. I wish his speech regarding the spill had been more strong and promised greater action to get America off oil, but honestly a President cannot take much immediate action in this case. He can't invent the technology to fix a leak that deep when the technology for fixes hasn't improved over the last 20 years. Obama struck a very nice deal with BP which will allow them to pay more for clean-up than they are required to by law, and he should pass tougher regulations for oil companies. But I don't get why people call this his Katrina. We had the resources to do more in the Katrina aftermath. We had to wait for a proper solution to be developed for the Gulf Oil Spill.

Hey Sophus, I share your lack of understanding.
But I'm sure this disaster will bring political rivals together, to ensure such a thing never happens again.  

Quote from: "Sophus"I don't understand what people think a President can do about a situation like that. I wish his speech regarding the spill had been more strong and promised greater action to get America off oil, but honestly a President cannot take much immediate action in this case. He can't invent the technology to fix a leak that deep when the technology for fixes hasn't improved over the last 20 years. Obama struck a very nice deal with BP which will allow them to pay more for clean-up than they are required to by law, and he should pass tougher regulations for oil companies. But I don't get why people call this his Katrina. We had the resources to do more in the Katrina aftermath. We had to wait for a proper solution to be developed for the Gulf Oil Spill.

Not to mention the fact that 3000 people died in Katrina.  Those who draw this comparison are hoping for taint by association.

A very interesting thread.
Despite my misgivings about Obama, as expressed in the opening post, I still believe him to be a man of integrity.  I pray that he is successful in his efforts, and hope he regains his early popularity-particularly if it spares us the nightmarish prospect of a Palin victory in 2012.

Quote from: "Ned"A very interesting thread.
Despite my misgivings about Obama, as expressed in the opening post, I still believe him to be a man of integrity.  I pray that he is successful in his efforts, and hope he regains his early popularity-particularly if it spares us the nightmarish prospect of a Palin victory in 2012.

The thought of Palin in charge of the US as Commander in Chief is truly terrifying!

I think that Palin on the Republican ticket in 2012 would guarantee President Obama a second term.  I think that Republican strategists are well aware of this, and we won't see upper levels of the GOP encouraging her to run. Ducking out of her term as Governor of Alaska to make speeches to Tea Party groups and swan around on Fox?  That leaves her with little credibility when it comes to middle of the road voters, in my opinion.

I would not be surprised if the Republicans did put Palin on the Republican ticket in 2012. It would however be a disaster if she would win. No-one in the rest of the world would take the USA seriously anymore. Question is why the more moderate and intelligent people in the Republican Party don't stand up against all this ultra-conservative BS.

Two images which show why I like Obama for the most part and am generally frustrated with those who prefer the extremist right:

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blogforarizona.com%2F.a%2F6a00d8341bf80c53ef0133f31ca1c7970b-500wi&hash=3a55f0c36223f5edefe1e2cff7fd080d4fb22475)

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmsnbcmedia.msn.com%2Fi%2FMSNBC%2FSections%2FTVNews%2FMSNBC%2520TV%2FMaddow%2FBlog%2F2010%2F04%2Fjobloss_scale.JPG&hash=c6d55fc3fb917d01b1e36710f304429d887f1e14)

That's an incredibly refreshing graph to see, Sophus.

Quote from: "karadan"That's an incredibly refreshing graph to see, Sophus.

I agree, it's a good trend. I would however raise one red flag. Are the jobs that are being created productive (manufacturing, teaching, research etc) or consumptive (civil servants, service industries like insurance and the like)? If they are predominantly consumptive then the USA is on the same slippery slope that Margaret Thatcher started and Tony Blaire greased in the UK. The German economy has just had it's highest quarterly period of growth in 20 years and its been fuelled by productive industries which the Germans still have. If a country does not have a backbone of productive or extractive industries that add real value then it's just an economy written on paper. If the US is going down the route of 'paper jobs' then the capitalist system will fall in due course as the rot will have set in on the powerhouse of real productivity. We'd best all start learning to speak Chinese.

Quote from: "Recusant"I think that Palin on the Republican ticket in 2012 would guarantee President Obama a second term.  I think that Republican strategists are well aware of this, and we won't see upper levels of the GOP encouraging her to run. Ducking out of her term as Governor of Alaska to make speeches to Tea Party groups and swan around on Fox?  That leaves her with little credibility when it comes to middle of the road voters, in my opinion.

This, I think, is spot-on.

I recently got a call from the Democratic Party asking for $.  I told them no until rendition was stopped and the prison in Guantanamo was closed.  This explains:

QuoteWASHINGTON â€" The CIA has tapes of 9/11 plotter Ramzi Binalshibh being interrogated in a secret overseas prison. Discovered under a desk, the recordings could provide an unparalleled look at how foreign governments aided the U.S. in holding and questioning suspected terrorists....

The CIA first publicly hinted at the existence of the Binalshibh tapes in 2007 in a letter to U.S. District Judge Leonie M. Brinkema in Virginia. The government twice denied having such tapes, and recanted once they were discovered. But the government blacked out Binalshibh's name from a public copy of the letter.

At the time, the CIA played down the significance, saying the videos were not taken as part of the CIA's detention program and did not show CIA interrogations.

That's true, but only because of the unusual nature of the Moroccan prison, which was largely financed by the CIA but run by Moroccans, the former officials said. The CIA could move detainees in and out, and oversee the interrogations, but officially, Morocco had control.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/1 ... r=Politics (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/17/cia-tapes-of-terrorist-in_n_684366.html?ir=Politics)

Quote from: Recusant on July 13, 2010, 01:17:10 AM
That said, President Obama is such a huge improvement over his predecessor that any fault I find in him seems very minor in comparison.

Second that!