Happy Atheist Forum

Energy is a deity and there is one source of all the energy. Energy can never be created nor destroyed (however it takes part in doing both) it can only be transformed from one state to another. Energy is consciousness. Energy is feeling and love, it is everything. Energy is life and existence. There is another life and you exist as energy somehow. So when you look at anything as different from yourself it's actually all the same and comes from the same place, even though it appears different and in different forms

There is no immaterial reality, because all matter comes from god/energy

QuoteSpirituality can refer to an ultimate or immaterial reality

QuoteMost inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists

Everything is energy and a contradiction

Quotecontradiction - opposition between two conflicting forces or ideas

QuoteA deity is a postulated preternatural or supernatural immortal being, who may be thought of as holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, and respected by believers, often called in some religions as a God.

QuoteIn physics, energy (from the Greek ἐνέργεια - energeia, "activity, operation", from ἐνεργόÏ, - energos, "active, working"[1]) is a quantity that can be assigned to every particle, object, and system of objects as a consequence of the state of that particle, object or system of objects. Different forms of energy include kinetic, potential, thermal, gravitational, sound, elastic, light, and electromagnetic energy. The forms of energy are often named after a related force. German physicist Hermann von Helmholtz established that all forms of energy are equivalent - energy in one form can disappear but the same amount of energy will appear in another form.[2] Energy is subject to a conservation law. Energy is a scalar physical quantity. In the International System of Units (SI), energy is measured in joules, but in some fields other units such as kilowatt-hours and kilocalories are also used.

QuoteMaterialism holds that the only thing that exists is matter, that all things are composed of material, and all phenomena (including consciousness) are the result of material interactions. In other words, matter is the only substance. Supernaturalism, on the other hand, holds that other things exist (or may exist) in addition.

materialism - a desire for wealth and material possessions with little interest in ethical or spiritual matter

And so what happens on december 21, 2012 (12-21-12.....a computer is off at 0 and on at 1, just like we sleep and are awake)

God existing as energy explains how it is all seeing (light/eyes), all knowing (time), yet does not impact our free will because we control our own energy. There is one self/creator/archetype. And I wonder if believing has something to do with it (do you believe what you feel) When you die there is only the presence of light/energy/love or the lack of it.

God is telling us something through the use of 2012 (time) and  technology (movies or art/computer/internet)


Idk how to explain and I have a fairly limited understanding of physics. It's like I could feel it and understand it....but not see it (I was on drugs when I figured this stuff out/put the pieces together) I believe this energy exists as some type of self-sustaining oscillating/vibrational energy. Like a continuous wave?

Maybe similar to a carnot cycle? idk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

QuoteThe Prophecy of the Popes, attributed to Saint Malachy, is a list of 112 short phrases in Latin. They purport to describe each of the Roman Catholic popes (along with a few anti-popes), beginning with Pope Celestine II (elected in 1143) and concluding with a pope described in the prophecy as "Peter the Roman", whose pontificate will end in the destruction of the city of Rome.

All 111 popes have been guessed right. There's only 1 more

Quote112 Peter the Roman, who will nourish the sheep in many tribulations; when they are finished, the city of seven hills will be destroyed, and the fearsome Judge will judge His people. The End.

However the judging comes from yourself and how you treated other people, as they are all part of the self and one in the same

During my cid trip I also had the interpretation that this energy/god did indeed make the bible, but more so as a test for people (although also to bring about order). It seemed extremely ironic/funny in a way....because then you have people taking the words too literally and causing destruction and seperation

Also in the Book of Revelation

QuoteAnd the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
"9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed."

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.treehugger.com%2Fburning-oil-rig-explosion-fire-photo11.jpg&hash=7ae45bc5979630d121dcaae8638bdd3ce76eaaec)

I should add Tupac/Makeveli.
"I'm sure to be rich till 96"
[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyA4DjBm3cY[/VIDEO]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati
I was never one to believe in conspiracies but I feel like it's manifesting itself in everything. In God we trust is on all of our money. I also find it weird that December 21 is 4 days before christmas and a month and a half after an election.

QuoteIlluminati (plural of Latin illuminatus, "enlightened") is a name that refers to several groups, both historical and modern, and both real and fictitious. Historically, it refers specifically to the Bavarian Illuminati, an Enlightenment-era secret society founded on May 1, 1776. In modern times it is also used to refer to a purported conspiratorial organization which acts as a shadowy "power behind the throne", allegedly controlling world affairs through present day governments and corporations, usually as a modern incarnation or continuation of the Bavarian Illuminati. In this context, Illuminati is often used in reference to a New World Order (NWO). Many conspiracy theorists believe the Illuminati are the masterminds behind events that will lead to the establishment of such a New World Order.

I cant help but wonder.....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephen-p-cohen/obama-netanyahu-meeting-5_b_639955.html#

QuotePresident Obama and Prime Minister Netanyahu decided this week to forcefully declare, once again, these basic facts of their countries' relationship. They resolved to not allow their continuing disagreements about the peace process's specific issues, including very important concerns, to grow into a crisis in the special relationship. They both acknowledged that, in the era of Iran's nuclear ambition, of Al-Qaeda and other Islamic radical threats, and during a period of what is likely to be transitions of leadership in several important countries in the region, they would not permit themselves to veer off the main course

By reinforcing the special relationship they provided the new energy required for moving the peace process forward now, so that an agreement will be reached on some issues before November 2012.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

QuoteTo build a lasting foundation for America’s economic prosperity and security, we’ll organize around the core challenges facing Americans and their families â€" energy, health care, and education. By acting together, we can overcome the obstacles that for too long have prevented real change on the critical issues that Americans face day in and day out. Now is the time to leave behind the status quo and build support for real solutions to ensure that President Obama succeeds in fulfilling the promise of change. Read more about the challenges we face and the solutions that will get us back on the road to long-term prosperity.

QuoteEconomy

We will not rebuild our economy on the old model of bubbles and busts. We'll only climb out of the current crisis by creating a new, sustainable foundation for our economy's future -- and make the tough choices to put our economy back on the road to long-term prosperity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_With_a_Thousand_Faces

I left my waders elsewhere, and that's an awful lot of woo for my shoes.

What were you smoking when you wrote this, and will you please share it with the rest of us?

Hey there buddy.  I'm doing mushrooms tonight, so this might make more sense to me later.  Right now it just sounds like a lot of assertions without any evidence.  I can do it too.  Look -

QuoteWater is a deity and there is one source of all the water. Water can never be created nor destroyed (however it takes part in doing both) it can only be transformed from one state to another. Water is consciousness. Water is feeling and love, it is everything. Water is life and existence. There is another life and you exist as water somehow. So when you look at anything as different from yourself it's actually all the same and comes from the same place, even though it appears different and in different forms

There is no immaterial reality, because all matter comes from water.

I know, huh?  Pretty confusing!

On Dec. 21st 2012 I'm getting married.  It's going to be a pretty epic party, that's probably what you're picking up on.

Also, double rainbow - what does it mean?

[youtube:10av5wil]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQSNhk5ICTI[/youtube:10av5wil]

Prea, you should make yourself familiar with HAF rules...we don't allow preaching and what you did in your OP would be preaching since you didn't provide evidence of most if not all of your claims.

wnd.com/?pageId=38823
christianheritagemins.org/articles/Ten_Commandments_old_9-20-03.htm

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These are either spam links or you are unable to use your own words to defend your OP...both are against HAF rules...this is your first warning. Please familiarize yourself with the forum rules and banning process. You are on strike one of three...three is out.

Quote from: "Prea"http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=38823
http://www.christianheritagemins.org/ar ... -20-03.htm (http://www.christianheritagemins.org/articles/Ten_Commandments_old_9-20-03.htm)

Non-biased evidence?

Why am I getting the imperssion that these baseless claims are not "your" thoughts?

I cherry picked a couple of phrases to , they seem to be unique, at least it's not a copy/pasta.

The first bit sounds like pantheism, then you just went off on a wild excursion, congratulations.

I took a lot of acid in my mis-spent youth. One thing that I learned: Its called a hallucinogen for a reason. Acid trips are a very poor guide to the nature of reality.

Prea has yet to learn this. Lets hope s/he wises up, for the alternative is madness.

:sigh:  

To the person who inserted water for energy, you should realize energy and atoms make up water.

Quote from: "GAYtheist"

Quote from: "Prea"http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=38823
http://www.christianheritagemins.org/ar ... -20-03.htm (http://www.christianheritagemins.org/articles/Ten_Commandments_old_9-20-03.htm)

Non-biased evidence?

You do not find it strange that tablets that closely resemble the ten commandments are in our supreme courthouse?

Quoteall forms of energy are equivalent - energy in one form can disappear but the same amount of energy will appear in another form

There is one creator (notice how Jesus' father was a carpenter?), one architect, one writer, one musician, one artist, one mathematician, one physicist, one dreamer, one thinker, etc. And we are all a manifestation/reflection of this one self, and its creative spirit is instilled in each of us. Look into yourself and those around you if you don't believe me. We are responsible for what we create in our lives. There is no hell, there is only the hell you create within yourself. So when you treat others wrongly, you are literally doing wrong to yourself as it is all one in the same. I believe this "self" is manifesting itself through 2012....I'm just trying to put the pieces together.

Maya backwards is ayam/I AM

Someone put this in a youtube comment

QuoteThe penis is God; the penis is master and creator of the universe. Before time, there the penis was. The penis is eternal.

Hello, and welcome to HAF, Prea

The use of entheogens is well documented in history, and no doubt occurred in pre-history as well.  So I see no reason to doubt that you had some type of revelation on your trip(s). I would say that the religious insights gained while partaking of entheogens have no more or less validity than other religious insights.  That is: dubious at best. If it floats your boat and you do no harm, fine.  As far as I'm concerned, even if you had not mentioned that you had at least some of these thoughts while on a trip, I would consider them unsubstantiated musings, no more. I have been a psychonaut in my time, and realize how significant some of the things one might encounter during a trip can seem.  Their true significance varies quite a bit, though.

Quote from: "Prea"You do not find it strange that tablets that closely resemble the ten commandments are in our supreme courthouse?

You may be interested to read Snopes' (http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp) examination of this topic.

Moved to religion.

Quote from: "Prea"There is one creator (notice how Jesus' father was a carpenter?), one architect, one writer, one musician, one artist, one mathematician, one physicist, one dreamer, one thinker, etc.

Prove it please.

QuoteAnd we are all a manifestation/reflection of this one self, and its creative spirit is instilled in each of us.

Prove this as well please.

QuoteLook into yourself and those around you if you don't believe me. We are responsible for what we create in our lives.

I thought you just said there is one of everything and its spirit is manifested into us? If this spirit isn't my own, I'm not responsible for whatever it does.

QuoteThere is no hell,

Gotta prove that too.

Quotethere is only the hell you create within yourself.

Why can't there be many versions of hell?

QuoteSo when you treat others wrongly, you are literally doing wrong to yourself as it is all one in the same.

Sorry, but you said something quite different in your first sentence.

QuoteI believe this "self" is manifesting itself through 2012....I'm just trying to put the pieces together.

Quite a frakkin cliffhanger, eh? What happens when the pieces don't fit by the end of 2012?

QuoteMaya backwards is ayam/I AM

Really? Reality backwards is Ytilaer.

QuoteSomeone put this in a youtube comment The penis is God; the penis is master and creator of the universe. Before time, there the penis was. The penis is eternal.

I reckon I must be God, then...cause I can be a really big dick sometimes...*chucklin*

Quote from: "Gawen"

Quote from: "Prea"There is one creator (notice how Jesus' father was a carpenter?), one architect, one writer, one musician, one artist, one mathematician, one physicist, one dreamer, one thinker, etc.

Prove it please.

You are being completely unreasonable, don't set the bar to such stratospheric heights, can't you just accept what the OP says without having to question everything all the time?

Quote from: "Prea"Energy can never be created nor destroyed (however it takes part in doing both) it can only be transformed from one state to another.

*sigh* Why do you theist types take such a simplistic view of the Universe and present it as a flat fact..?

Here is a for instance for you: Matter vs. antimatter.

EDIT: After some more reading, I have come to suspect that the OP is a schizophrenic... There is clearly some weird perception of reality going on there... Combine that with playing with words and numbers based on a local syntax, yet applied on a global scale and... We has a diagnosis!

Zyprexa. Or Abilify. Those might help.

This could explain how part of the energy exists as the self and the rest is creating universes (from a song)

QuoteThe Dreaming Period. The first stage is the longest, and its the best. During that stage, the dream is beautiful. The second stage is not so long, and it's a little unsettling. And there's an element of instability in it. A certain touch of insecurity. In the third stage which is again not so long, the forces of light and the forces of darkness of good and of evil are equally balanced, and things are beginning to look rather dangerous. And in the fourth stage, which is the shortest of them all, the negative, dark, or evil side triumphs and the whole thing blows up. And so then there is a waking period, before the whole thing starts again.

QuoteHave you noticed, that in this drama, the forces of the dark side are operative for one third of the time, the forces of the light side for two thirds of the time. This is a very ingenious arrangement. Because, we are seeing here, the fundamental principles of drama

QuoteAnnuit cÅ"ptis (in Anglicized Latin pronounced /ˈænjuːɪt ˈsÉ›ptɨs/) is one of two mottos (the other being Novus ordo seclorum) on the reverse side of the Great Seal of the United States. Taken from the Latin words annuo (nod, approve) and cÅ"pta (beginnings, undertakings), it is literally translated as "He approves (or has approved) [our] undertaking(s)"

The phrase Novus ordo seclorum (Latin for "New Order of the Ages") appears on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States, first designed in 1782 and printed on the back of the American dollar bill since 1935. The phrase also appears on the coat of arms of the Yale School of Management, Yale University's business school. The phrase is often mistranslated as "New World Order", for which the Latin would be Novus Ordo Mundi

The phrase is taken from the fourth Eclogue of Virgil, which contains a passage (lines 5-8) that reads:
Latin
Ultima Cumaei venit iam carminis aetas;
Magnus ab integro saeclorum nascitur ordo.
iam redit et Virgo, redeunt Saturnia regna,
iam nova progenies caelo demittitur alto.

English
Now comes the final era of the Sibyl's song;
The great order of the ages is born afresh.
And now justice returns, honored rules return;
now a new lineage is sent down from high heaven.

The word sibyl probably comes (via Latin) from the Greek word sibylla, meaning prophetess. The earliest oracular seeresses known as the sibyls of antiquity, "who admittedly are known only through legend"[1] prophesied at certain holy sites, under the divine influence of a deity, originallyâ€" at Delphi and Pessinosâ€" one of the chthonic earth-goddesses. Later in antiquity, sibyls wandered from place to place.

Hm wikipedia might be lying about that eclogue of the virgil part though. But god probably controls wikpedia too

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F0%2F0e%2FGreat_Seal_of_United_States.jpg&hash=6388684aa432b51ffb1e95694044f7e3f6c59e8d)

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg191.imageshack.us%2Fimg191%2F4932%2Feyehc.png&hash=d751a81ea1910d937c1af15ea25ab8f6aefd46f5)
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg806.imageshack.us%2Fimg806%2F5858%2Fpick.jpg&hash=2868f02779b3e500f3bf834c363bed9757ad1da0)
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg190.imageshack.us%2Fimg190%2F9206%2Fcirck.png&hash=f7378a107292a4bd27305ea38093293a27045343)

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Should definitely try them psych pills...  

Troll? Anyone?

Quote from: "Gawen"Troll? Anyone?

I'll have one. With lotsa' jalapeños and tomato juice

Quote from: "Prea"This could explain ... (from a song)

WIN!

Quote from: "Asmodean"Should definitely try them psych pills...  :crazy:

So Prea, heres an important question: Have you been prescribed any medication by a psychiatrist? And if so, are you still taking it?

If the answers are 'yes' and 'no' then you really need to resume the tablets.

Quote from: "Caecilian"Whats for sure is that he's crazy as a bag of squirrels.  

Caecilian, you're awesome, but please don't insult squirrels in this manner: not squirrels in bags, nor in any other recepticle.  If you must make a mammalian comparison, please, in future, use badgers.

If energy is a deity then it is supernatural in some way. How is energy supernatural?

Quote from: "Allah"If energy is a deity then it is supernatural in some way. How is energy supernatural?

Energy is a deity because it is prenatural (well sort of.....it has always existed) and energy is immortal. There is no supernatural, there is only nature.

Energy is also a deity because

Quotewho may be thought of as holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, and respected by believers, often called in some religions as a god.

People in ancient times thought the sun/moon/stars were gods

OH MY, I think I just tripped, hit my head, and ended up back in the early 1970's.  Damn I hated those years.

Seriously, I see a little part of what the writer is attempting to put out there, an alternate reality for the existence of god.  If we can't make him a person, place, or thing, we make him a concept.  It's been tried and it's failed on a number of occasions, some of which I can quote from memory and other's I'd have to look up, either way, why waste yours and my time and energy.

Recently, I've been doing the whole interviewing for a job thing after 26 years of steady work on the university level.  It's been hard getting back into the game, well last week I took some really strong meds the doctor gave me for this sinus infection I've been fighting.  It made me high as a kite, loopy as all get out, and just about the smartest darn fool ever born, or at least at the time it seemed like it.  I managed to figure out the meaning of life, lying there in my bed unable to sleep, with my head spinning and with that floaty kind of feeling you get with good drugs.  Anyway, I should have written all the great stuff down, cause the next morning I couldn't remember a darn thing, POOF all my great ideas that would change the world, GONE... NOOOOOOO!!!!!!

At least this guy got his down on paper before he woke up. lol

Quote from: "Prea"and energy is immortal.

No. By definition of "living" and "mortal", energy is... Well, dead.

QuotePeople in ancient times thought the sun/moon/stars were gods

Which has to do with your ramblings what, exactly..?

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "Prea"and energy is immortal.

No. By definition of "living" and "mortal", energy is... Well, dead.

Quotealive(p): possessing life; "the nerve is alive";
alive(p): (often followed by `with') full of life and spirit;
animated: having life or vigor or spirit;
alive(p): (followed by `to' or `of') aware of; "is alive to the moods of others"
active: in operation; "keep hope alive"; "the tradition was still alive"; "an active tradition"
alert: mentally perceptive and responsive;"an alert mind"; "alert to the problems"; "alive to what is going on"; "awake to the dangers of her situation"; "was now awake to the reality of his predicament"
capable of erupting; "a live volcano"; "the volcano is very much alive"

Quote1. Having life; living. See Synonyms at living.
2. In existence or operation; active: keep your hopes alive.
3. Full of living or moving things; abounding: a pool alive with trout.
4. Full of activity or animation; lively: a face alive with mischief.

Sounds like energy/waves/light/molecules/atoms fit this description?

QuoteIn physics, energy (from the Greek ἐνέργεια - energeia, "activity, operation", from ἐνεργόÏ, - energos, "active, working"[1])

Quote from: "Martin TK"why waste yours and my time

You don't really feel/experience time in the present moment....you only experience time if you're looking at a clock/computer/television or watching the sun move throughout the sky (or the transition of sunset/sunrise). But not so much while you're actually doing things

And don't you guys see how ironic/hilarious it is to realize god exists as energy? If there is a god I'm sure he has a sense of humor It would be like we've been wondering where he is the whole time, and arguing over our differences.....when god was really everywhere and we are all exactly the same (but just in different form). It's like we've all been duped (if god does indeed exist as the conscious/continuous energy that I believe it does). It also makes it funny because atheists and religious people would have been arguing over the same thing this whole time (in a way). If god somehow existed at the atomic level it would also explain how he/she/it could feel everything that we feel (maybe idk)

I know I can't scientifically prove it or anything....but I'm fine with that. But quantum mechanics probably has something to do with it all. There's some things we'll just never know, at least not while we're alive here imo

You guys know the story of god and the talking burning bush? Imagine a huge ball of light and energy that you are apart of, and thoughts/sounds/feelings/vibrations/waves can be sent directly to you via electromagnetic radiation, as there is no division between your brain and your environment, and you would not have a body that can be harmed (again I do not know how this would work, obviously you would no longer be in your brain, but maybe you would exist as a part of a larger brain....but I feel like it could potentially work somehow). Our entire experience of life is really just the processing of energy. Maybe the soul is made up of a single atom? And when you die this atom becomes a conscious part of the environment? Maybe a carbon molecule? Who knows.

QuoteYou may come to understand viscerally that the Human Being is a process by which the universe can become self aware.

I especially believe the above is true when you consider things like facebook and youtube

You can't decide that being a deity doesn't require being supernatural just so your definition of deity works... it's the main point of being a deity.

Jump up. Energy, not a deity, was transferred from the ground, to your feet, through your legs pushing you off the ground. Land. Energy, not a deity, was transferred from your body, through your legs, into your feet, and dispersed through the planet to be used somewhere else. Energy does not stop moving. This does not make it a "god" it makes it a branch of science.

Quote from: "Allah"You can't decide that being a deity doesn't require being supernatural just so your definition of deity works... it's the main point of being a deity.

Or maybe there is no such thing as supernatural....it's just a word that people came up with that has no basis in anything, and to explain the unexplainable. You can't decide that a deity has to be supernatural either. Well technically you decide/believe whatever you want

There are different definitions of "deity" too, and the word can be interpreted however one chooses....just as god can be interpreted however one chooses or believes

Quotedeity - The essential nature or condition of being a god

Quote from: "GAYtheist"This does not make it a "god" it makes it a branch of science.

As far as we know in our limited understanding of the cosmos. You don't think that there is the possibility that god and science are one in the same? Is it really that much of a reach?

Quote from: "GAYtheist"Jump up. Energy, not a deity, was transferred from the ground

But my mind was responsible for controlling that energy. What controls the energy of the universe? You can see the universe (and human existence) goes through a process of harmonizing. Going from the big bang until now the universe is a much more peaceful place with less chaos going on. Same with our earth, it's not longer the magma engulfed piece of rock that it probably started as. Our human race has harmonized in a way too, as we do not cause massive killing and destructive and conflict in the same magnitude that we have in the past

Quote from: "Prea"But my mind was responsible for controlling that energy. What controls the energy of the universe? You can see the universe (and human existence) goes through a process of harmonizing. Going from the big bang until now the universe is a much more peaceful place with less chaos going on. Same with our earth, it's not longer the magma engulfed piece of rock that it probably started as. Our human race has harmonized in a way too, as we do not cause massive killing and destructive and conflict in the same magnitude that we have in the past

Physics. Evolution. Science.

Supernatural isn't a word "people came up with that has no basis in anything", it is a word with a clear definition: defying natural law. Energy does not do this. And I didn't DECIDE that a deity has to be supernatural, YOU did when you posted a definition earlier in this very thread stating a deity as a supernatural divine being.

Quote from: "GAYtheist"Physics. Evolution. Science.

All a manifestation/study of energy. Just as art, music, and consciousness are a manifestation and result of energy processes.

Quote from: "Allah"Supernatural isn't a word "people came up with that has no basis in anything",

Ok....it has a basis in the mind, and that's it. There is no scientific proof in that. Name me one thing that "defies natural law"

And in my original post my point was to show what people believe to be a supernatural supreme being, may in fact be as natural as energy and describing the same thing. In case you haven't noticed describing god as energy makes everything very convoluted, contradictory, and ironic......which is what makes me believe it even more haha

Quote from: "Prea"

Quote from: "GAYtheist"Physics. Evolution. Science.

All a manifestation/study of energy. Just as art, music, and consciousness are a manifestation and result of energy processes.

Yes, and there is nothing supernatural about any of the examples you have just given. They are all scientifically proven to be natural, and the are, music, and consciousness are fairly readily explained through science.

Quote from: "Prea"

Quote from: "Allah"Supernatural isn't a word "people came up with that has no basis in anything",

Ok....it has a basis in the mind, and that's it. There is no scientific proof in that

And in my original post my point was to show what people believe to be a supernatural supreme being, may in fact be as natural as energy and describing the same thing. In case you haven't noticed describing god as energy makes everything very convoluted, contradictory, and ironic......which is what makes me believe it even more haha

No, because the being would have been a part of the singularity during the big bang. Which means the being itself would be the first thing created, and creating a consciousness that complex would be, i feel, impossible given the amount of time it took to start creating the universe.http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/1447 ... e75_lg.jpg (http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/144789main_CMB_Timeline75_lg.jpg)

Quote from: "GAYtheist"

Quote from: "Prea"

Quote from: "GAYtheist"Physics. Evolution. Science.

All a manifestation/study of energy. Just as art, music, and consciousness are a manifestation and result of energy processes.

Yes, and there is nothing supernatural about any of the examples you have just given. They are all scientifically proven to be natural, and the are, music, and consciousness are fairly readily explained through science.

Quote from: "Prea"

Quote from: "Allah"Supernatural isn't a word "people came up with that has no basis in anything",

Ok....it has a basis in the mind, and that's it. There is no scientific proof in that

And in my original post my point was to show what people believe to be a supernatural supreme being, may in fact be as natural as energy and describing the same thing. In case you haven't noticed describing god as energy makes everything very convoluted, contradictory, and ironic......which is what makes me believe it even more haha

No, because the being would have been a part of the singularity during the big bang. Which means the being itself would be the first thing created, and creating a consciousness that complex would be, i feel, impossible given the amount of time it took to start creating the universe.http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/1447 ... e75_lg.jpg (http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/144789main_CMB_Timeline75_lg.jpg)

A universe is a vacuum.....surely energy could exist outside of this vacuum simultaneously too? (the trick would just be to not put the entirety of the energy into the universe). And what if this consciousness could somehow sense every single atom?

And science does not truly explain why we have feelings, emotions, or why we create things. Of what relevance are they to our environment (aside from other life)? Science just explains how.

Quote from: "Prea"[
And science does not truly explain why we have feelings, emotions, or why we create things. Of what relevance are they to our environment? Science just explains how.

The only thing existing outside the universe, is nothingness. Energy does not exist outside of the confines of the universe.

Quote from: "GAYtheist"The only thing existing outside the universe, is nothingness. Energy does not exist outside of the confines of the universe.

I believe quite the opposite is possible. Everything inside the universe is basically isolated amounts of energy surrounded by nothingness....but outside of the universe is possibly only energy

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ryan-grim/read-the-never-before-pub_b_227887.html
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v18n1/v18n1-MAPS_24.pdf
http://www.mayanmajix.com/art1699.html
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/01/70015

Quote from: "Prea"

Quote from: "GAYtheist"The only thing existing outside the universe, is nothingness. Energy does not exist outside of the confines of the universe.

I believe quite the opposite is possible. Everything inside the universe is basically energy surrounded by nothingness....but outside of the universe is possibly only energy

Not empty space, Ether.
http://www.siddeutsch.org/essay8.html (http://www.siddeutsch.org/essay8.html)
http://www.weeklyuniverse.com/skies/skies11.htm (http://www.weeklyuniverse.com/skies/skies11.htm)

Did Einstein come up with that theory?  

http://www.spaceandmotion.com/albert-ei ... eology.htm (http://www.spaceandmotion.com/albert-einstein-god-religion-theology.htm)

QuoteA knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. (Albert Einstein)

I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings. (Albert Einstein)

A human being is part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. We experience ourselves, our thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest. A kind of optical delusion of consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from the prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. The true value of a human being is determined by the measure and the sense in which they have obtained liberation from the self. We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if humanity is to survive. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

The most beautiful and most profound experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive forms - this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness.
( Albert Einstein - The Merging of Spirit and Science)

Quote from: "Prea"Did Einstein come up with that theory?  

http://www.spaceandmotion.com/albert-ei ... eology.htm (http://www.spaceandmotion.com/albert-einstein-god-religion-theology.htm)

QuoteA knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. (Albert Einstein)

I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings. (Albert Einstein)

A human being is part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. We experience ourselves, our thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest. A kind of optical delusion of consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from the prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. The true value of a human being is determined by the measure and the sense in which they have obtained liberation from the self. We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if humanity is to survive. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

The most beautiful and most profound experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive forms - this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness.
( Albert Einstein - The Merging of Spirit and Science)

" James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879) and his contemporaries didn’t believe that a vacuum was empty space. They thought it was really filled with the ether, a mysterious substance somewhat analogous to the way in which our atmosphere is filled with air. Just as air is invisible, the ether that fills vacuum space is also elusive. So is there such a thing as empty space or a true “vacuum”? Yes-- outside the universe in which we reside. Our universe is filled with the ether. "

From previous link

Concerning the OP, He is correct that Energy is the sum total of all existence.. However, energy is not an entity in the sense of being a self aware GOD, That would make us all GOD, or a case of Solipsism. Instead, we are all conscious representatives of energy as separate entities all made from the same volume of this universal set substance. It's true that energy is that to which makes all conscious minds, and is the the substance to which makes consciousness an functional active phenomenon. However, it's a pleading argument to suggest it's inherently a self-aware deity. I have discussed this many times before that energy is the Universal Set of all sets, and the only thing that can solve infinite regress.  Essentially we are all made from the same pile of sand. If you want to redefine a GOD as a self-oscillating and attaining substance, so be it :)  Empty space is simply energy, or vacuum energy. Also, the reason why we can't measure the lowest level, or base energy is because we can not possibly build anything sensitive enough to measure it for the simple reason that anything we build would begin, or be constructed from that base level and up. So we call this zero base energy, or the lowest level of energy and complexity possible. And we base this on the fact that -1 energy is impossible, and this is why -1 spatial dimension is impossible, or that non-existence can not be a person, place, object, substance, or thing of literal existence.. Now since a -1 spatial space is impossible, it's also logical why most scientists agree that space itself is of infinite volume, or volume of energy.  ;). Essentially, there can be no phenomenon (consciousness, or even a simple bounce of a bouncing ball) without material physicality, complexity, substance, or spatial dimension..

 AKA ENERGY!  

Damn this is exactly what I've been thinking
http://www.meerical.com/Page21.html (http://www.meerical.com/Page21.html)

Quote from: "Prea"Damn this is exactly what I've been thinking
http://www.meerical.com/Page21.html (http://www.meerical.com/Page21.html)

That link is largely nonsensical, and I only agreed to the premise that Energy is the Universal Set.. This doesn't mean any pattern of nonsense magically reflects reality, or what actually exists, or doesn't exist. ..

Quote from: "Prea"Sounds like energy/waves/light/molecules/atoms fit this description?

Nice try, Sparky. But, A-1: you have given a bunch of definitions of "alive" - some of them metaphorical - not of "living". B-2: Some of those are, indeed, metaphorical. Your drivel, however, is not.   Oh, And C-3: HOW exactly does energy fit into even the metaphorical descriptions of "alive" where "alive" implies more than just being?

Lemme help out a bit:

Living: posessing or in an act of life

Life: Definition depends on source, but let us go with the mainstream: that which respires, multiplies and expires.

Atoms don't breethe. Nor does energy. Energy does not multiply, unless you are willing to admit that it can be created after saying that it "never" can. (Sounds like something you fished out of a fifth grade physics book... The same one in which 1-2 magically equals zero)

oooops...that's twice that's happened

Quote from: "Prea"

Quote from: "GAYtheist"The only thing existing outside the universe, is nothingness. Energy does not exist outside of the confines of the universe.

I believe quite the opposite is possible. Everything inside the universe is basically isolated amounts of energy surrounded by nothingness....but outside of the universe is possibly only energy

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ryan-grim/read-the-never-before-pub_b_227887.html
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v18n1/v18n1-MAPS_24.pdf
http://www.mayanmajix.com/art1699.html
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/01/70015

If you will consult first or second editions Dungeons and Dragons Players Handbooks, all that there is is nicely explained...*grinnin*

Quote from: "SSY"You are being completely unreasonable, don't set the bar to such stratospheric heights, can't you just accept what the OP says without having to question everything all the time?

What? Of course not!...*grinnin*

*mutterin*...can't let 'em come in here makin' completely unreasonable assertions without them backing it up somehow

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "Prea"Sounds like energy/waves/light/molecules/atoms fit this description?

Nice try, Sparky. But, A-1: you have given a bunch of definitions of "alive" - some of them metaphorical - not of "living". B-2: Some of those are, indeed, metaphorical. Your drivel, however, is not.   Oh, And C-3: HOW exactly does energy fit into even the metaphorical descriptions of "alive" where "alive" implies more than just being?

Lemme help out a bit:

Living: posessing or in an act of life

Life: Definition depends on source, but let us go with the mainstream: that which respires, multiplies and expires.

Atoms don't breethe. Nor does energy. Energy does not multiply, unless you are willing to admit that it can be created after saying that it "never" can. (Sounds like something you fished out of a fifth grade physics book... The same one in which 1-2 magically equals zero)

This is some what incorrect, although atoms individually don't breath, but the the act of breathing requires them. Also, we can in fact state that it takes energy to breath because breathing is a material physical phenomenon. And physics isn't applicable without energy.

As far as how does energy fit into the term alive.., well that depends on how you use the term alive. Here we can say that Energy is alive because it self-oscillates. Or we can simply say that all things including life, and information are simply patterns of energy, and emerging properties, behaviors, patterns, attributes, actions, and reactions of energy.. Everything in existence can be summed up into 3 properties of energy.

positive
negative
neutral

Regardless of what it is, there can only be a positive, negative, or neutral action, reaction, process, or phenomenon even if somethings are considered a constant. This includes; life, breathing, the existence of particles and atoms, or even consciousness.

So we can state that there are 3 things that can represent a Universal Set of all Sets, and all 3 of these are all one in the same...

Existence
Information
Energy

All 3 of these are of the same coin, or what I call the 3 sided coin (heads, tails, and the rim). All mass, matter, information, or phenomenon are all entirely comprised of energy itself. All of those are Phenomenon, or emerging properties of energy..

Now I agree that Prea's OP is largely nonsensical, but he is correct that Energy is pretty much anything, and everything that "Does exist"... The only problems with his argument is that Energy is not a Deity, or GOD even if it can reach a complexity capable of achieving self-directed cognitive dynamics that lead to phenomenon such as consciousness.. The other problems with his argument is that consciousness is observer matter relationships, and requires far more cause and complexity than zero base energy. Hence, consciousness can't be said to exist outside the biological process and container. So you need a brain, or a structure capable of a conscious phenomenon, or "life". Each life form is a collective of energy of all 3 stages of matter (liquid, solids, and gasses).. Take out just one of those and life, or even consciousness will cease to be a phenomenon.

Three sides of the same coin does not equal to the same side or identical or otherwise synonimous sides.

Yes, both matter and energy are required to maintain life, however, being the building blocks of it, they fail to meet the criteria of the mainstream definition of living.

That said, matter and energy are also two sides of the same coin. Energy is destroyed to create matter and matter is destroyed to create energy, so goeth the theory at least. However, matter and energy are NOT the same since we assign different properties to each definition.

It's a semantics game, really, in which I only engaged because I dislike seeing the definitions abused, especially by widening them outside their intended scope without a good reason.

Quote from: "TheJackel"Now I agree that Prea's OP is largely nonsensical, but he is correct that Energy is pretty much anything, and everything that "Does exist"... The only problems with his argument is that Energy is not a Deity, or GOD even if it can reach a complexity capable of achieving self-directed cognitive dynamics that lead to phenomenon such as consciousness.. The other problems with his argument is that consciousness is observer matter relationships and does requires far more cause and complexity than zero base energy. Hence, consciousness can't be said to exist outside the biological process and container. So you need a brain, or a structure capable of a conscious phenomenon, or "life". Each life form is a collective of energy of all 3 stages of matter (liquid, solids, and gasses).. Take out just one of those and life, or even consciousness will cease to be a phenomenon.

I believe the totality of all the energy in the cosmos somehow forms one continuous living organism that we are all apart of. I don't know how and I can't explain it

Quote from: "Prea"

Quote from: "TheJackel"Now I agree that Prea's OP is largely nonsensical, but he is correct that Energy is pretty much anything, and everything that "Does exist"... The only problems with his argument is that Energy is not a Deity, or GOD even if it can reach a complexity capable of achieving self-directed cognitive dynamics that lead to phenomenon such as consciousness.. The other problems with his argument is that consciousness is observer matter relationships and does requires far more cause and complexity than zero base energy. Hence, consciousness can't be said to exist outside the biological process and container. So you need a brain, or a structure capable of a conscious phenomenon, or "life". Each life form is a collective of energy of all 3 stages of matter (liquid, solids, and gasses).. Take out just one of those and life, or even consciousness will cease to be a phenomenon.

I believe the totality of all the energy in the cosmos somehow forms one continuous living organism that we are all apart of. I don't know how and I can't explain it

Why?  What information are you aware of that leads you to make the logic jump from energy existing to energy being some kind of living organism?  It sounds super crazy pants.

"Today, a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration â€" that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There's no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather."
-Bill Hicks

Quote from: "Prea""Today, a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration â€" that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There's no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather."
-Bill Hicks

So your source of information is a dead comedian?  Or is it acid?  Are you serious?

Look, I did a lot of acid when I was a kid so here is my advice to you - stop assuming that when you're on acid you're somehow peering into realms of understanding that no one else can see.  Nope...you're just on acid.

In biology, an organism is any contiguous living system. In at least some form, all organisms are capable of response to stimuli, reproduction, growth and development, and maintenance of homoeostasis as a stable whole.

I used to not believe in crop circles, but now I'm not so sure. They make sense now

Quoteone nation, under god, indivisible

How could we not see this before?

Quoteindivisible - incapable of being divided; atomic; Incapable of being divided by a specific integer without leaving a remainder

QuoteIndivisibility - In concurrent programming, an operation is linearizable, atomic, indivisible or uninterruptible if it appears to take effect instantaneously. Implementation details may be ignored by the user, except insofar as they affect performance. ...

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Quote from: "Asmodean"Three sides of the same coin does not equal to the same side or identical or otherwise synonimous sides.

They don't have to be identical sides, it just a means to describe that they are essentially the sum total of the coin, or different words for the same thing. I think you read too deeply into the analogy. And in any case, energy would represent all sides..

QuoteYes, both matter and energy are required to maintain life, however, being the building blocks of it, they fail to meet the criteria of the mainstream definition of living.

I think this is where you mistaken my argument, and I say this because I am not saying energy and matter is inherently always in the state of "living", as in a living organism .. It takes a complex biochemical structure of matter and energy that to which becomes a living organism.. Hence, matter and energy can become "living" organisms.. Life is nothing more than another phenomenon of matter and energy..

QuoteThat said, matter and energy are also two sides of the same coin. Energy is destroyed to create matter and matter is destroyed to create energy, so goeth the theory at least. However, matter and energy are NOT the same since we assign different properties to each definition.

This is however false  ;) , this is the reality of what everything is essentially made of.. We human beings are in fact examples of "living energy", it's really not arguable what-so-ever. I am not just spouting out philosophy here, but rather scientific fact.  :pop:

So I kindly ask you to review my posts and then comeback to the following definition of energy :pop:   :hey:

Not bad... Not bad at all. Methink I like you  

Don't have a time to make a proper reply yet, but in defence of my semantics-argument, we have a term "matter". We also have a term "energy" When converting one to the other, the original state is no more. Thus, the original is destroyed. Yes, one comes from the other and yes, in a way, one IS the other. However, because of the properties assigned to the different terms, one is not the other as far as linguistics are concerned.

QuoteThe term Alpha and Omega comes from the phrase "I am the alpha and the omega" (Koiné Greek: Ï,,ὸ Î' καὶ Ï,,ὸ Ω), an appellation of Jesus[1] in the Book of Revelation (verses 1:8, 21:6, and 22:13).

Its meaning is found in the fact that alpha (Î') and omega (Ω) are respectively the first and last letters of the Classical (Ionic) Greek alphabet. This would be similar to referring to someone in English as the "A and Z". Thus, twice when the title appears it is further clarified with the additional title "the beginning and the end" (21:6, 22:13).

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.naaapconvention.org%2FPortals%2F41%2FGallery%2FSponsorsLogo%2Fbp.jpg&hash=8614ea46d97fc549c2b3c5151d33eb8ffcad48b9)
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Does anyone see the ironies in all of this? This is pretty fucked
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=universe+self+aware
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=c ... bjectively (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=universe+subjectively)

QuoteIn his forward to The Self-Aware Universe, Dr. Wolf writes:

"There is too much quantum weirdness around, too many experiments showing that the objective world...is an illusion of our thinking.

"The author posits a hypothesis that is so strange to our Western minds as to be automatically dismissed as the ravings of an Eastern mystic. It says that all of the [paradoxes of quantum physics] are explainable, are understandable, if we are to give up that precious assumption that there is an objective reality "out there" independent of consciousness. It says even more, that the universe is "self-aware" and that it is consciousness itself that creates the physical world."

Quotethis "objective vs. subjective" debate is a bit like the nature vs. nurture thing in psychology. Your brain is a lot better off if you stop thinking in these exclusive either/or dichotomies.

Quote

QuoteStream of consciousness may refer to:
Ostensibly unedited, spontaneous live or recorded performances, as in film, music, and dramatic and comic monologues, intended to recreate the raw experience of the person portrayed or the performer
Stream of consciousness (narrative mode), a narrative mode used as a literary, cinematic, theatrical, or lyrical technique
Stream of consciousness (psychology), in psychology
stream-of-being also known as the mindstream (Buddhism)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvVHsmdTbTg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvVHsmdTbTg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z945mHQpcyc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z945mHQpcyc)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtRbEgoTqQs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtRbEgoTqQs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4itrQb_BvXM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4itrQb_BvXM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6rJava11i0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6rJava11i0)

Does this have anything to do with the OP?

Link dumping is spam, not contribution.

Quote from: "pinkocommie"Does this have anything to do with the OP?

Link dumping is spam, not contribution.

Life is basically just a bunch of "link dumping"

Perhaps our soul exists as a single photon and god is energy

Quote"In physics, a photon is an elementary particle, the quantum of the electromagnetic interaction and the basic unit of light and all other forms of electromagnetic radiation. It is also the force carrier for the electromagnetic force. The effects of this force are easily observable at both the microscopic and macroscopic level, because the photon has no rest mass; this allows for interactions at long distances."

In particular, the photon model accounted for the frequency dependence of light's energy, and explained the ability of matter and radiation to be in thermal equilibrium.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg51.imageshack.us%2Fimg51%2F5582%2Ftimee.jpg&hash=22962791c3685d33f22ef7bffc99a77ab7053098)

Quote from: "Prea"

Quote from: "pinkocommie"Does this have anything to do with the OP?

Link dumping is spam, not contribution.

Life is basically just a bunch of "link dumping"

WTF?  If you don't care about HAF's rules about not spamming with links then you need to go elsewhere.

Edit:  note that you are on strike 3 already as I just issued you yet another warning for spamming.  I'll give you one chance to change your approach otherwise you'll be on a one week ban the next time I see you participate here simply by dumping a ton of links and quoting from other sites.  As stated in your last warning...if you can't use your own words to back up your position then don't even bother trying to participate in discussion.

"He who knows himself knows his lord"

Quote from: "Prea""He who knows himself knows his lord"

See you in a week Prea.  

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "Prea""He who knows himself knows his lord"

See you in a week Prea.  

yup.

I'm really happy I decided to sit this one out.

Also, not to be a jerk, but

QuoteLife: Definition depends on source, but let us go with the mainstream: that which respires, multiplies and expires.

describes the action of fire very nicely as well.  Note that I'm not arguing that fire is alive, because everyone knows that life isn't energy, but bill-paying.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"I'm really happy I decided to sit this one out.

Also, not to be a jerk, but

QuoteLife: Definition depends on source, but let us go with the mainstream: that which respires, multiplies and expires.

describes the action of fire very nicely as well.  Note that I'm not arguing that fire is alive, because everyone knows that life isn't energy, but bill-paying.

There is a lovely line in Blackadder

Blackadder: Baldrick, I feel like a Pelican.
Baldrick: And why's that Sir?
Blackadder: Because everywhere I look there's a bloody great bill!

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"I'm really happy I decided to sit this one out.

Also, not to be a jerk, but

QuoteLife: Definition depends on source, but let us go with the mainstream: that which respires, multiplies and expires.

describes the action of fire very nicely as well.  Note that I'm not arguing that fire is alive, because everyone knows that life isn't energy, but bill-paying.

There is a lovely line in Blackadder

Blackadder: Baldrick, I feel like a Pelican.
Baldrick: And why's that Sir?
Blackadder: Because everywhere I look there's a bloody great bill!

I love that scene...

Quote from: "Prea"

Quote from: "pinkocommie"Does this have anything to do with the OP?

Link dumping is spam, not contribution.

Life is basically just a bunch of "link dumping"

Perhaps our soul exists as a single photon and god is energy

Quote"In physics, a photon is an elementary particle, the quantum of the electromagnetic interaction and the basic unit of light and all other forms of electromagnetic radiation. It is also the force carrier for the electromagnetic force. The effects of this force are easily observable at both the microscopic and macroscopic level, because the photon has no rest mass; this allows for interactions at long distances."

In particular, the photon model accounted for the frequency dependence of light's energy, and explained the ability of matter and radiation to be in thermal equilibrium.

This is a real poor attempt to suggest a that a particle is magically self aware, and I know where you get this from. So I will post the example video to which theists like to use, and then explain why theists misrepresent the data, and why your concept is ridiculous.

[youtube:apkjx2ca]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEzRdZGYNvA[/youtube:apkjx2ca]

When we think about energy (especially on the quantum level), it can be absorbed or interacted with. Here the key problem is interactions that collapse the wave function due to the absorbing of the wave function via observation. The observer, no matter how small will interfere with the electron because the electron can either be a wave or a particle.. The collapse of the wave function is not because the electron knows it's being watched, it's because the observer is interacting with the electron and destroys the interference pattern and collapses the wave function, or cancels out the wave function.. This is called the uncertainty principle. This uncertainty principle is where it's impossible to design an experiment to determine which slit the electron passes through because the detection device or "observer" interferes with the experiment and the wave function.

Many theists like to misrepresent this experiment into some philosophical nonsense about how the universe is magically self-aware when in fact it's only showing the unpredictability of quantum electrodynamics, emergence, energy, or patterns that interact with other patterns to an unexpected new patter of behavior or result.  Yes this plays a role in how consciousness can arise giving that there is a complex structure such as a Nero Network to support it, but this does not mean the Universe is conscious, or that some how basic elementary particles are little conscious spirits running around.

Anyways, I would like to share a fun video that is semi off topic for education value

Here is a good video for you to watch on probability in quantum tunneling.

Quote from: "Asmodean"Not bad... Not bad at all. Methink I like you  :) And yes, certain states of energy such as matter can be destroyed in the sense of being converted into another form or state of energy.. However, it can't literally be destroyed into nothing as it can only decay or convert. I was just trying to clarify this so other readers won't be confused in regards to what we are trying to say on this subject  :)  :)

One more reason to love Calvin & Hobbes:  it introduced "transmogrification" into the vernacular.

And Jack is right; we cannot know what lies outside our Universe one way or the other.  Planck-time appears to be impenetrable.

Quote from: "Prea"I believe the totality of all the energy in the cosmos somehow forms one continuous living organism that we are all apart of. I don't know how and I can't explain it

From Wikipedia >.<

Since there is no unequivocal definition of life, the current understanding is descriptive, where life is a characteristic of organisms that exhibit all or most of the following phenomena:

   1. Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, electrolyte concentration or sweating to reduce temperature.
   2. Organization: Being structurally composed of one or more cells, which are the basic units of life.
   3. Metabolism: Transformation of energy by converting chemicals and energy into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.
   4. Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of anabolism than catabolism. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter.
   5. Adaptation: The ability to change over a period of time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity as well as the composition of metabolized substances, and external factors present.
   6. Response to stimuli: A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism to external chemicals, to complex reactions involving all the senses of multicellular organisms. A response is often expressed by motion, for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun (phototropism) and by chemotaxis.
   7. Reproduction: The ability to produce new individual organisms, either asexually from a single parent organism, or sexually from two parent organisms.


I don't see how "all of the energy in the cosmos" fits any of these criteria.

Quote from: "Heretical Rants"I don't see how "all of the energy in the cosmos" fits any of these criteria.

I don't think it has to, nor does it matter. To be fair I think the OP is merely suggesting that "all of the energy of the cosmos" is, on some level, a single entity possessing, or rather possessed by its own consciousness - a simple, unsupported claim. Pantheism is often the doubting theist's last stop on the way to Occam's Barbershop; a god defined as 'everything that exists' (or even 'all energy') is indistinguishable from one that doesn't exist. This is a naive attempt to define god into existence by labeling things known to exist as god, as if those things cease to exist or behave differently in anyway without that label.

Quote from: "GAYtheist"The only thing existing outside the universe, is nothingness. Energy does not exist outside of the confines of the universe.

Whoaoaaa, that´s a pretty big claim right there, if you´re defining "universe" the way I think you are.

If by universe you mean "everything, absolutely everything" then sure... but... then what´s the point of saying that nothing exists outside of everything?

Quote from: "Heretical Rants"

Quote from: "GAYtheist"The only thing existing outside the universe, is nothingness. Energy does not exist outside of the confines of the universe.

Whoaoaaa, that´s a pretty big claim right there, if you´re defining "universe" the way I think you are.

If by universe you mean "everything, absolutely everything" then sure... but... then what´s the point of saying that nothing exists outside of everything?

What's a "nothing" made of, mewonder...  

Quote from: "Heretical Rants"

Quote from: "Prea"I believe the totality of all the energy in the cosmos somehow forms one continuous living organism that we are all apart of. I don't know how and I can't explain it

From Wikipedia >.<

Since there is no unequivocal definition of life, the current understanding is descriptive, where life is a characteristic of organisms that exhibit all or most of the following phenomena:

   1. Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, electrolyte concentration or sweating to reduce temperature.
   2. Organization: Being structurally composed of one or more cells, which are the basic units of life.
   3. Metabolism: Transformation of energy by converting chemicals and energy into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.
   4. Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of anabolism than catabolism. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter.
   5. Adaptation: The ability to change over a period of time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity as well as the composition of metabolized substances, and external factors present.
   6. Response to stimuli: A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism to external chemicals, to complex reactions involving all the senses of multicellular organisms. A response is often expressed by motion, for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun (phototropism) and by chemotaxis.
   7. Reproduction: The ability to produce new individual organisms, either asexually from a single parent organism, or sexually from two parent organisms.


I don't see how "all of the energy in the cosmos" fits any of these criteria.

They aren't made of nothing, and everyone of those require energy as we know it to be what they are, do what they do, or even exist. They entirely fit the criteria

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "Heretical Rants"

Quote from: "GAYtheist"The only thing existing outside the universe, is nothingness. Energy does not exist outside of the confines of the universe.

Whoaoaaa, that´s a pretty big claim right there, if you´re defining "universe" the way I think you are.

If by universe you mean "everything, absolutely everything" then sure... but... then what´s the point of saying that nothing exists outside of everything?

What's a "nothing" made of, mewonder...  

Nothing states that itself is nothing and doesn't exist since it's nothing at all. To be something would be to exist. If something exists it clearly isn't nothing. So we can conclude that nothing is only a descriptive word and can not literally ever be something in itself.

Quote from: "TheJackel"Nothing states that itself is nothing and doesn't exist since it's nothing at all. To be something would be to exist. If something exists it clearly isn't nothing. So we can conclude that nothing is only a descriptive word and can not literally ever be something in itself.

Yup. Nothing is nothing but a construct.