Happy Atheist Forum

Hello all. I'm an Atheist married to a Lutheran. I've come to see if there are others in my position and how they are handling it.  If so, how do you deal (or plan to deal) with religion and your kids? I don't have kids yet, but I'm somewhat dreading the religion issue.  My wife and I get along fine and understand each other and our differences in faith (or lack of).  I'm obviously not against religion for the most part.  I do think that it provides stability and morals. Our plan is to let her raise the kids as Lutheran and may even allow them to go to Lutheran school until high school.  We've also agreed to let them think for themselves and not force anything on them.  But I have a feeling that the kids (being kids) are going to choose atheism for the simple fact that they won't have to wake up early on Sundays like daddy.  Obviously not what I'm aiming for. The other problem I see is that I am able to better explain my lack of beliefs than my wife is explaining her beliefs. I don't want our kids to get between us. I could see problems arising from the inlaws eventually too. Their gonna want their grandkids to be raised like they were, of course. Hook em while their young... ya know?  Anybody else dealing with this?

Hola.  I can't say I know how to handle that since I don't have any kids and am not married or dating anyone - sorry.

Can't help you either. My wife is a former catholic, who still believes in (a) god but who dislikes church. We don't have kids.

Quote from: "cheddamash"Hello all. I'm an Atheist married to a Lutheran. I've come to see if there are others in my position and how they are handling it.  If so, how do you deal (or plan to deal) with religion and your kids? I don't have kids yet, but I'm somewhat dreading the religion issue.  My wife and I get along fine and understand each other and our differences in faith (or lack of).  I'm obviously not against religion for the most part.  I do think that it provides stability and morals. Our plan is to let her raise the kids as Lutheran and may even allow them to go to Lutheran school until high school.  We've also agreed to let them think for themselves and not force anything on them.  But I have a feeling that the kids (being kids) are going to choose atheism for the simple fact that they won't have to wake up early on Sundays like daddy.  Obviously not what I'm aiming for. The other problem I see is that I am able to better explain my lack of beliefs than my wife is explaining her beliefs. I don't want our kids to get between us. I could see problems arising from the inlaws eventually too. Their gonna want their grandkids to be raised like they were, of course. Hook em while their young... ya know?  Anybody else dealing with this?

Yep, it's gonna be rough. My wife is a Catholic, and a eucharistic minister. My kids are confused by the situation of me not going to church and my wife being so involved. It's very difficult to pull off what you're planning to do, but at least you two have an understanding ahead of time what you want to try, and how each of you think.

cheddamash (your name is making me hungry), I don't know if I can help either.  I am married, and I have kids, but my wife is a "recovering" catholic (haha).  She is not religious.  She seems very tolerant of my atheism, but if I talk to her too much about it she gets annoyed.  Fair enough.  Our kids are currently being raised without any religion whatsoever --- no promoting, no bashing.   I don't think they know what the word "God" means (keep in mind they are young, 3 and 5).

The only time my wife got "antsy" is when she realized that almost all the other children in my oldest daughter's pre-school class are catholic, and the other moms were talking about catholic schools, first communion, and other stuff I don't understand.  She's approached me once or twice about baptizing the kids --- I have basically said if you want to, go ahead, but don't expect me to help.  It's not that I'm trying to be unsupportive, but, my beliefs are important to me as well, and baptism is a ridiculous superstition in my eyes --- one which I will not support.  So I guess I am being unsupportive  :wink:  .  She sees this more as an issue of regular societal bullshit.  Like believing politicians are really looking out for the little guys --- she doesn't believe it, but she still votes.  (so do I).

Also, she worries if the other parents will think we're weird if they find out we're not catholic.  I don't think they will, they'll probably just assume we are a different religion (unfortunately, an assumptions that's usually going to be right).  And, I'm not broadcasting my atheism.  If someone asks me  if I'm religious, I'll say no (and leave it at that).  If they point-blank ask if I'm an atheist, I'll say yes.  It doesn't seem like anyone actually does this, though.

Sucks that people would feel a social pressure to conform like this --- I mean, I don't like religion, I think they're all superstitious and irrational for doing what they do, but that doesn't mean we can't be casual friends.  I have no worries about my kids playing with theirs, or going to their home.  I wonder if they knew I was an atheist, would it be different for them?  I hope not, but realistically I do wonder....

Anyway, sorry I couldn't help more.

Thanks for the input guys!

McQ, if you don't mind me asking, how old are the kids? If they didn't want to go to church, would the wife allow this?

SteveS, I love the term "recovering" catholic. Awesome, and true! I have a feeling this will be my wife eventually. If anybody can show people the anti-light it's me! We are still young and pretty much newly-weds yet. Once we've grown up a little more and have a family of our own I can see her stepping out of the box a little more. I think her parents are the ones holding her back from the real world. I think she sees a lot of truth in what I've talked about, but her parents would be ashamed if she stopped attending church (she's there right now actually).  We'll see.  I'll continue the jam my anti-god crowbar in between them.

Quote from: "cheddamash"Thanks for the input guys!

McQ, if you don't mind me asking, how old are the kids? If they didn't want to go to church, would the wife allow this?

SteveS, I love the term "recovering" catholic. Awesome, and true! I have a feeling this will be my wife eventually. If anybody can show people the anti-light it's me! We are still young and pretty much newly-weds yet. Once we've grown up a little more and have a family of our own I can see her stepping out of the box a little more. I think her parents are the ones holding her back from the real world. I think she sees a lot of truth in what I've talked about, but her parents would be ashamed if she stopped attending church (she's there right now actually).  We'll see.  I'll continue the jam my anti-god crowbar in between them.

The kids are getting up there in age now. Young men, really. They are 20, 18, 17, and 13. Once they reach 18, it is completely up to them to go or not. Prior to that, it is pretty much required for them to go to mass.

There are weeks when they just don't want to go, and they get some freedom with that, as long as it didn't become "every week".

Are the two "free" ones still going?

Quote from: "cheddamash"Are the two "free" ones still going?

Nope. They sleep in on Sundays now. Just like their old man!  

haha I figured. Have you talked to them about their beliefs?  Still Catholic and just lazy (like us all on Sundays), or are they stepping out of the box a little? Do you think 17 and 13 will follow?  Sorry if I'm prying.  I'm just really curious how my future kids may act.

Quote from: "cheddamash"haha I figured. Have you talked to them about their beliefs?  Still Catholic and just lazy (like us all on Sundays), or are they stepping out of the box a little? Do you think 17 and 13 will follow?  Sorry if I'm prying.  I'm just really curious how my future kids may act.

No problem. It hard to tell how the others will go. They are all very different in personality. The oldest thinks religion is "stupid" but he came to that on his own. I never decried my wife's faith, or demeaned her beliefs in any way. I was a christian for most of my life and much of our marriage.

All of our kids get a free course on comparative religion in our house. We talk about all kinds of religious beliefs, practices, history, etc. They know that there have been various belief systems all through human history, as well as those who did not believe in the supernatural.

So, that said, you never know what you'll get, but I do know that the more educated kids are regarding all religious beliefs, the better suited they are to make decisions regarding religion (or lack of it).

Wish I could help, Cheddamash. I have no kids. I am married, and my husband hates religion pretty much but he doesn't claim to be an atheist. He's a Laveyan satanist actually and we have our own hurdles there. In fact I'm glad I have no kids because I am worried about how he'd help (if at all) raise them...he's generally pretty negative......guess I'm getting off the subject, sorry. But welcome to the group.

Quote from: "cheddamash"I think her parents are the ones holding her back from the real world.

Hmm, yeah, parents can be a powerful influence.  Mine aren't religious, but I seriously doubt they would ever refer to themselves as atheists.  When I flap my jaws about this topic my mom sometimes seems uncomfortable.  But, then again, she was raised catholic (although she did not stay with it).

Man, I'm telling you something, they mess with people's guilt receptors in that church.  Every freakin' time something bad happens, my wife and sometimes my mom express this "maybe we're being punished" thing that drives me nuts!!!!

Quote from: "SteveS"Every freakin' time something bad happens, my wife and sometimes my mom express this "maybe we're being punished" thing that drives me nuts!!!!

Reminding them that they should also be considering how often life goes smoothly and they forget that it sucks when shit goes down and that it is possible to happen just by living normally? lol may just start shit. Probably would with me til I got fed up haha.

Quote from: "Sophia"...my husband hates religion pretty much but he doesn't claim to be an atheist. He's a Laveyan satanist actually...

Wait... isn't that a religion?

Quote from: "SteveS"Man, I'm telling you something, they mess with people's guilt receptors in that church.  Every freakin' time something bad happens, my wife and sometimes my mom express this "maybe we're being punished" thing that drives me nuts!!!!

I deal with this too.  I absolutely hate when people say it's "God's will." It sincerely angers me when people use this as an excuse not to put any effort into looking for answers to a problem. Also, when people say that after a tragedy and think that it somehow justifies it. Tsunami... "just God's will." 9/11... "God works in mysterious ways." WTF!

Hi cheddamash, welcome to the forum.  I don't have any advice to give about raising kids with a religious spouse....I don't have any kids and my future husband is an atheist.  Although, dealing with the religious beliefs of grandparents/family and them wanting to influence my kids in that direction may be an issue I'll have in the future.

Quote from: "cheddamash"I deal with this too. I absolutely hate when people say it's "God's will." It sincerely angers me when people use this as an excuse not to put any effort into looking for answers to a problem. Also, when people say that after a tragedy and think that it somehow justifies it. Tsunami... "just God's will." 9/11... "God works in mysterious ways." WTF!

Yup - definitely.  When I was talking with the Jehovah's Witnesses that came by my house, they told me the governments of man were destined to failure, that god knew they would fail.  This seems like such a defeatist attitude to me.

Quote from: "tacoma_kyle"Reminding them that they should also be considering how often life goes smoothly and they forget that it sucks when shit goes down and that it is possible to happen just by living normally? lol may just start shit. Probably would with me til I got fed up haha.

Yeah, I usually just give a wry look and say "that's ridiculous - stop it".  It's not that they're trying to make me believe or anything, they just have this natural tendency to assume punishment is behind adversity.  That's neither mentally healthy nor constructive.  I believe it is a direct result of the conditioning of the catholic church.  Maybe I can make a name for it, GOC?  Guilt Obsessed Catholic?  It's only off by one letter from GOD....

Quote from: "cheddamash"

Quote from: "Sophie"...my husband hates religion pretty much but he doesn't claim to be an atheist. He's a Laveyan satanist actually...

Wait... isn't that a religion?

I was thinking the same thing.......an unconventional religion, for sure.  Maybe it doesn't qualify - don't satanists view themselves as gods?  Can gods be said to follow religions?

Hehe, this reminds me of an excerpt I saw from George H. Smith's book.  He asks the question "Is God an Atheist?".  That's just plain funny.

So McQ, does your wife have weird thoughts like she'll be in eternity without you? Does she think you've condemned the kids to hell or anything like that? Seems like if you believe, that would be the logical conclusion.

Quote from: "SteveS"....  Every freakin' time something bad happens, my wife and sometimes my mom express this "maybe we're being punished" thing that drives me nuts!!!!

So the 2 yr old with cancer is God's will and the 20 year old with cancer is being punished?

Quote from: "skeptigirl"So the 2 yr old with cancer is God's will

No that's karma.  The 2 year old was formerly a dog that bit several children before being put down.  And before that, in reverse order, St. Augustine, a mule, an elephant, a dutch peasant girl, Mandarin bureaucrat, steel worker in Manchester, and Sen. Joeseph McCarthy...

Quote from: "skeptigirl"So McQ, does you wife have weird thoughts like she'll be in eternity without you? Does she think you've condemned the kids to hell or anything like that? Seems like if you believe, that would be the logical conclusion.

Heh, good questions. We haven't talked too in depth about it, but a few thoughts and some things I do know about this.

My wife has doubts too, and isn't beyond questioning her faith, but she is typical of people who are afraid when they start to question things.

She doesn't hold me accountable for my kids' decisions regarding their religious beliefs or lack of them, though. We did talk about that.

I think that if she continues to hold to her faith that she will continue to believe that we'll be together in the afterlife, somehow. The reason I think that is because that I have been through all of the catholic rites and sacrements, AND was "saved" in college. So I'm covered by protestant and RC beliefs! LOL!

We're still sorting everything out, but it has been working so far. I hope that the future works as well, and I think it will.

We'll see......

Quote from: "skeptigirl"So the 2 yr old with cancer is God's will and the 20 year old with cancer is being punished?

See what I mean?  It don't stand to reason (as we educated people say).

I never watch the TV show "House", but my brother was telling me about the last show.  I guess some woman was in a coma or something, and they pulled the plug, then she revived.  The other doctors and family were apparently calling it a miracle, so house pointed out that god only gets credit for the good stuff, and asks how come nobody blamed god for making her sick and trying to kill her in the first place.

Made me want to watch the show.

House has had a couple of good atheist vs believers shows. The actual program is not medically correct but as fiction, they do a great job with such topics.

Quote from: "skeptigirl"House has had a couple of good atheist vs believers shows.

I cheer out loud when House says something snarky to the believers.  Grumpy and rational...gotta love it!