Happy Atheist Forum

This is a question mainly for my fellow U.S. citizens, because my experience comes from the U.S. (anyone should feel free to respond though ). The question is, as the title says "Why are atheists not really equal?" Sure, we're all protected in the constitution, but I feel like atheists are not really protected in the same way. I guess the main question is "Why is hate speech/actions against atheism not considered to be as bad as against religious groups?"

George Bush once said "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

We all know the Boy Scouts stand on atheism.

FOX NEWS... enough said

Feel free to add your own.

I think people have a hard time providing the same protections for a lack of belief than they do for those who actively identify as someone with belief.  It's a double edged sword really - we evidently don't need protection for not believing something, and our opinions and needs seem to matter less because they're derived from a position of non-belief.  I think that's why the recent 'new atheist' movement is so important.  I think people will naturally marginalize other groups if they don't have constant, almost nagging reminders that those other groups exist and have equal rights.  The US constitution is a powerful tool that luckily we have on our side, but that doesn't mean we don't have to demand and protect our own equality.  That's part of what sucks about being a minority.

I was astonished by Bush's comment, it illustrated for me just how bigoted and ignorant the man was.

As someone who identified as Christian for most of her life, I can tell my impression of why this bias is the case for some.  Please understand, I am NOT saying these views are true or acceptable or anything along those lines.  They are just what I heard--and maybe even felt--at some point as a believer.  

1.  Believers worry that atheists are trying to take something away from them.  For instance, wanting statues of the 10 commandments "taken away" from public spaces or "under god"  removed from the pledge.  As a believer, it was hard for me to understand why anyone would object to a simple phrase in a pledge.  I used to just think, "Don't say it then.  Big deal."  The mindset was you can avoid saying it if you want, but once it's gone, others can't say it.  Dizzying logic, I know.

3.  Atheists are scary, evil, angry people in the minds of many believers.  You have to remember the mindset behind believing.  Believing means that there is a lot of fear of the punishment in store for nonbelievers and anyone who associates with them.  So in that thinking, atheists aren't like everyone else; they are evil. This mindset is why members of my own family now refuse to even speak to me.

4.  Many belivers don't think that atheists are really atheists.  Of course they believe in god, they just won't admit it.  They think that atheists are just shock-seeking folks with no real point of view, rebellious teenagers if you will.  So there is no view to be protected or counted as equal.  They will come around eventually.  This is how my mom now deals with me.

In short, the mindset is that atheists don't deserve to be protected or taken seriously because they are either evil or just acting out.

Quote from: "Businessocks"As someone who identified as Christian for most of her life, I can tell my impression of why this bias is the case for some.  Please understand, I am NOT saying these views are true or acceptable or anything along those lines.  They are just what I heard--and maybe even felt--at some point as a believer.  

1.  Believers worry that atheists are trying to take something away from them.  For instance, wanting statues of the 10 commandments "taken away" from public spaces or "under god"  removed from the pledge.  As a believer, it was hard for me to understand why anyone would object to a simple phrase in a pledge.  I used to just think, "Don't say it then.  Big deal."  The mindset was you can avoid saying it if you want, but once it's gone, others can't say it.  Dizzying logic, I know.

3.  Atheists are scary, evil, angry people in the minds of many believers.  You have to remember the mindset behind believing.  Believing means that there is a lot of fear of the punishment in store for nonbelievers and anyone who associates with them.  So in that thinking, atheists aren't like everyone else; they are evil. This mindset is why members of my own family now refuse to even speak to me.

4.  Many belivers don't think that atheists are really atheists.  Of course they believe in god, they just won't admit it.  They think that atheists are just shock-seeking folks with no real point of view, rebellious teenagers if you will.  So there is no view to be protected or counted as equal.  They will come around eventually.  This is how my mom now deals with me.

In short, the mindset is that atheists don't deserve to be protected or taken seriously because they are either evil or just acting out.

Man, this makes me kind of sad.  I've always been an atheist, I had no idea about the negative social stigma surrounding it until I was almost a teenager.  It makes me feel like saying - wait, you freaking seriously believe in effing imaginary friends, yet I'm an attention seeking fibber who isn't to be taken seriously?  Bah.  I'm very glad not all religious people feel this way, and very very glad you were able to escape this way of thinking.

Atheists are the least trusted demographic in America.  It's because the church has spent about a thousand years of work on making people hate atheists, so they wouldn't leave the church.  It's a power struggle.

People have stereotypes about atheists that tell them that they are Hateful, Evil, Immoral, Communists!  They Hate God, They Hate Believers, They are negative people who want to destroy the fundamental basis of society, and destroy everything we know and love!  In the forum, we know that these stereotypes are ridiculous.

Atheists are not considered equal, because the religious institutions controlling the minds of America's citizens say that atheism is evil.  Especially in Christianity, which specifically says you will go to hell unless you accept Jesus as your LORD and SAVIOR.  They believe non Christians are evil, and deserve eternal torture.  It's awful.

Atheism is a really big minority, (18%) but The Atheist Lobby is virtually nonexistant.  We need to stand up and stop tolerating nonsense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxGMqKCc ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxGMqKCcN6A&feature=player_embedded)

Richard Dawkins says it all.

I know this won't be a very popular point of view here, but who knows that I'm an atheist and why would I need to tell anybody that I'm an atheist? That's my private business. I'm not a member of any club or group or organization, I don't wear an arm-band that says "Atheist" on it, it's not branded on my forehead, in fact the United States government doesn't know a damn thing about whether or not I believe in a god. If it does then I can't see that it's had any impact on my life at all.

I can go anywhere I want, vote for whoever I want, buy whatever I want, work anywhere I want, have sex with whoever I want and marry whoever I want.

So what's the big deal? What I think has never closed any doors to me, and never in my life have I felt or been made to feel unequal to anyone else because of whatever I believe.

I don't see any religious persecution against atheists in this country. Can anyone give me an example of such? Sure, if you go around with a big mouth and a chip on your shoulder making a big deal of it and blabbing to everyone, "Hey, I'm an atheist, you people who believe in Jesus are nuts" then it's obvious what the result of that will be, but why would you ever feel the need to do that?

Who cares what some ignorant rednecks or whoever think about non-believers, about atheists?

Quote from: "i_am_i"I don't see any religious persecution against atheists in this country. Can anyone give me an example of such?

Jeremy Hall, a soldier in the US Army received threats from his superiors and fellow soldiers for being an atheist.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/us/26atheist.html

That said, I know many service academy and ROTC cadets that are not religious and choose not to affiliate themselves with a religion or a god, so this isn't to bash the military in any way. I find that even my religious cadet friends are more open-minded and tolerant than my friends who joined the military straight after high school. I hope that it is with the former that social norms and structures within our military change for the better once it's their turn to lead.

Most people I know don't really care. I think Atheists/Agnostics tend to be a much larger group than people realize. It's just the fact that there has a been a really big PR campaign by religion to make it seem like we are these evil hate-mongers who have nothing better to do than to routinely do bad things in the name of our non-belief.

Quote from: "i_am_i"I don't see any religious persecution against atheists in this country. Can anyone give me an example of such?

"Religious persecution" is a weird way to word it, but if you dispute the fact that atheists are discriminated against, I can off the top of my head cite the fact that in South Carolina, one cannot legally run for the office for governor as an atheist.  There are also states which have rules that prohibit atheists from participating on a jury.  I can find links of you need them, I'm just too tired to go looking right now.     I agree that in some areas it's a non-issue, but if someone is an atheist living in an area that DOES view atheism as an issue, I could see how they might feel discriminated against.

I feel like i'm harboring slaves here in Florida, I let slip to the bible thumpers that i'm an atheist and to this day they knock on my door and will knock until I answer every other week or so to try to convince me something is wrong with me.

Quote from: "thelittlefinch"

Quote from: "i_am_i"I don't see any religious persecution against atheists in this country. Can anyone give me an example of such?

Jeremy Hall, a soldier in the US Army received threats from his superiors and fellow soldiers for being an atheist.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/us/26atheist.html

He's in the U.S. Army and he organizes a meeting of atheists. Now what in the world was he thinking? I mean, it's the damn U.S. Army, not a college campus.

Quote from: "i_am_i"

Quote from: "thelittlefinch"

Quote from: "i_am_i"I don't see any religious persecution against atheists in this country. Can anyone give me an example of such?

Jeremy Hall, a soldier in the US Army received threats from his superiors and fellow soldiers for being an atheist.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/us/26atheist.html

He's in the U.S. Army and he organizes a meeting of atheists. Now what in the world was he thinking? I mean, it's the damn U.S. Army, not a college campus.

Um they have the right to have peaceful meetings just like anyone else. Life in the military can be strict but is The Uniform Code of Military Justice is still based on the constitution just like civil law is.

I wasn't discriminated against in the Air Force, but that was an awful long time ago.  Hopefully the Academy scandals have moved the leadership back to secular stuff, like killing people and breaking things.

Quote from: "EssejSllim"This is a question mainly for my fellow U.S. citizens, because my experience comes from the U.S. (anyone should feel free to respond though ). The question is, as the title says "Why are atheists not really equal?" Sure, we're all protected in the constitution, but I feel like atheists are not really protected in the same way. I guess the main question is "Why is hate speech/actions against atheism not considered to be as bad as against religious groups?"

George Bush once said "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

We all know the Boy Scouts stand on atheism.

FOX NEWS... enough said

Feel free to add your own.

Atheists are not considered equal because the majority of our population over here is undereducated especially where the founding of this country is concerned. This was engineered, they are supposed to be undereducated, yet it is not to our advantage. We must change the last 100 years of social engineering to fix this.