Happy Atheist Forum

Why is it, if Christians claim they have or are with the holy spirit/ghost....they can't debate? How come this spirit from the Almighty can't put his thoughts into words through a human mouthpiece that are not ambiguous or incoherent on a discussion board?

Just wonderin'...

Very good question, been thinking it myself.

Well, there do be several reasons for that...

1. There is no holy ghost.
2. If you disregard 1., HEâ,,¢ works in mysterious ways, he does.
3. *insert generic theist free-will speech"
4. There is no reason a holy ghost would want to communicate with we, the lesser beings.

I can't pretend to understand the Christian position, but it would seem that the holy spirit isn't a thing that can debate, but more of a feeling that is often referenced as proof of a divine existence.  So I think if you asked for a straight up debate with the holy spirit, you're going to be told 'it doesn't work that way' which in my opinion is fine, except when people try to apply their personal feelings as proof of anything to anyone else.

Now that I've had my daily dose of insanity....

The holy spirit/ghost is viewed differently among churches and branches.  Just off the top of my head.....
In many pentecostal churches, the holy ghost is what causes the believers to speak in tongues and translate during a particularly spiritual church session.  So 'it' talks, just not to us or to present itself in any coherent manner.
In Catholics and Lutherans according to hubby they perceive the holy spirit as the word of god, trinity, that which breathes inspiration into us, a muse if you will.  Don't know why it can't come out and play though.
In a lot of baptist churches the holy ghost is seen as something like the energizer bunny for great hellfire services that never end.  It still doesn't want to play with us though.

Personally I think it's an instinct to herd mentality that many people feel and can't quite put a finger on, so they have to give it a holy source.

the former religious group i was in taught that the holy spirit is just but one of the three facets of god's manifestation. it is responsible for gaining the wisdom needed to understand the word of god and is also the source of strength (did not elaborate if it's physical) and courage in trying times (maybe even in debates). it can be used as a cop-out like "you're not a christian, you do not posses holy spirit. therefore, you can't understand what i am saying about the word of god. but if you accept jesus as your savior, you will understand."

Can't debate but speaks in tongues. Can't get a coherent position of itself or doctrine but breathes inspiration. It's everywhere but we need a special holy roller invite to have it expose itself to us. A ghost of all trades...master of none. Subjective to all. So much for the great Comforter...

Holy crap! Did I just blaspheme the Holy Spirit???

I will tell a personal story when I lived through a fundamentalist phase of my life.

As a youth counselor to an Episcopal summer camp, I led a large of group of boys into a group prayer.  At the time, I was extremely radical and fundamental.

I experienced the "being filled with the spirit" as well as the "tongues" whooping and hollering on and on.  The young boys whose upbringing abhorred such went through the same feelings and did the same thing.

Hind site is 20/20.  What a learning experience!

It was hypnotism and nothing more.  I hypnotized the boys just like a fundamentalist preacher would by controlling the inflections in my voice and putting through it deep emotions.  It was all genuine, I really believed in what I said, but still it did not indicate or validate any "spirit."  Instead, it was merely a physical reaction on everyone's part generated by extreme excitement.  People do this all the time to great effect.  As an example, group fear makes people do very sadistic things.  Think jihad, racism, hyping, etc, etc.

Quote from: "deekayfry"It was hypnotism and nothing more.  I hypnotized the boys just like a fundamentalist preacher would by controlling the inflections in my voice and putting through it deep emotions.  It was all genuine, I really believed in what I said, but still it did not indicate or validate any "spirit."  Instead, it was merely a physical reaction on everyone's part generated by extreme excitement.  People do this all the time to great effect.  As an example, group fear makes people do very sadistic things.  Think jihad, racism, hyping, etc, etc.

Also music concerts. You can have the same feeling going to a classical music concert or a heavy metal concert. Though people tend to react differently in different kinds of concerts.