Happy Atheist Forum

A lot of you Atheists love to say that you care about human problems here and now, when us Christians are only concern about the after life. If that is the case, where are the atheist-run Rescue Missions, soup kitchens, Medical ships, after-school programs, Third World assistance organizations, and alcohol and drug rehabilitation programs? There are a number of godless secular programs (mostly run by tax dollars) and private programs, but where is the privately funded atheist equivalent of the Salvation Army, the world's 2nd largest welfare organization, second only to the United Nations?

You Atheists love to pull out the example of Bill Gates and his now full-time dedication to philanthropy, but that appears to be the exception more than the rule. In fact, according to a study by the Barna Group, charitable giving by atheists and agnostics in America is significantly less than by theists.

Since atheistic evolutionary thinking leads to  Social Darwinism and that you atheists have no 'rational' basis for morality in their ideology, the immoral views that atheists often hold and the low per capita giving of American atheists is not unpredictable.

As the bible informs us: Ps 14:1-3 1 "The fool has said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they do those things that I hate, there is none that does good." Atheists devote their time not to helping anyone out but rather bring hell to Earth. Just look at 'logical' and 'rational' atheistic countries like the Soviet Union and North Korea.

Wow.  I didn't even read this, the title was so incredibly insulting.

Quote from: "pinkocommie"Wow.  I didn't even read this, the title was so incredibly insulting.

How is that insulting at all? The title doesn’t say, ‘Imagine No Atheists’ or 'The Atheist Delusion' . All I want is a public debate. I want you atheists to defend some of your unethical and behavior.

I personally support with a monthly subscription Amnesty International who do good work attempting to protect theistic sects from persecution in China. I have given up my time and refurbished a children's cancer hospital in Romania which I still support financially with a £25 monthly subscription. I spent a week there painting and redecorating the place stopping it from being closed. The group that did it were mixed atheists theists, That group still exists and continues humanitarian aid in the Balkans. I support Christian Aid as they do a lot of good and are a very efficient organisation.

I have done work for the Holocaust centre near Newark in the UK and also for organisations in Rwanda.

Quote from: "Tank"I personally support with a monthly subscription Amnesty International who do good work attempting to protect theistic sects from persecution in China. I have given up my time and refurbished a children's cancer hospital in Romania which I still support financially with a £25 monthly subscription. I spent a week there painting and redecorating the place stopping it from being closed. The group that did it were mixed atheists theists, That group still exists and continues humanitarian aid in the Balkans. I support Christian Aid as they do a lot of good and are a very efficient organisation.

I have done work for the Holocaust centre near Newark in the UK and also for organisations in Rwanda.

You did not read what I wrote. Just because you did something good doesn't change anything. Can you name any Atheist run charity organization anywhere near the size of Salvation Army? How about this, I will make things easier for you. Can you even name ONE atheist run charity organization? No? I thought so.

Quote from: "pj084527"You did not read what I wrote. Just because you did something good doesn't change anything. Can you name any Atheist run charity organization anywhere near the size of Salvation Army? How about this, I will make things easier for you. Can you even name ONE atheist run charity organization? No? I thought so.

Su Vida (Outreach and group home for at-risk kids)
Intermountain Youth Centers (http://www.ichd.net/) (Community based rehabilitation for kids)
La Otra Puerta (http://www.nmjustice.net/nmsc/juvenile/program.php?id=266) (Children's emergency shelter)

All secular and atheist run.

You know why Atheists don't have Salvation Army sized organizations? Being a small minority means having fewer people. Secondly, atheism isn't an organization like religion is, there are no central tenets to gather around. Your argument in your OP is flawed for forgetting that major difference.

Still, did your rant make you feel superior?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm far too busy eating babies to give money to people in need.  

The simple truth, pj084527, is that on the whole atheists are not organized under a banner of atheism. I get a sense of false equivalence from your insinuation. Religion, by its very nature, is organized. The Catholic Church is arguably the largest organization in the world. Even the largest atheist organizations in the world are tiny when even compared to smaller sects or denominations of religion. Because we don't have centralization in the same way religion does, our private donations are not considered to be atheistic. I can personally say that I donate a great deal of time and money, but I don't do so as an atheist, but as a human being with empathy. My atheism doesn't inspire me to do anything because that's not what atheism means. Remember, atheism is a disbelief in god or gods. It's not a dogma or belief system or organization.

Bearing that all in mind, there's no way for you to demonstrate how much atheists do or do not donate time, money, or anything else. Your entire premise is fundamentally flawed, and it is a bit offensive. I'm proud of my work with Habitat for Humanity (I've been volunteering with them since I was in high school). I'm proud of my annual donations to Red Cross.

Quote from: "pj084527"Since atheistic evolutionary thinking leads to Social Darwinism and that you atheists have no 'rational' basis for morality in their ideology, the immoral views that atheists often hold and the low per capita giving of American atheists is not unpredictable.

Evolutionary thinking does not lead to social darwinism. Social darwinism is the exact opposite of darwinian evolution. Natural selection and artificial selection are diametrically opposed.

I'm taking off my regular member hat and I'm putting on my moderator hat now.

What you've posted here is entirely inappropriate and offensive. Suggesting that 1) atheists don't help people in need, 2) atheists are inherently immoral, and 3) atheists seek to create hell on earth are all entirely outside of allowable discussion. I'm giving you an official warning. If you persist, you will be permanently banned.

Quote from: "pj084527"A lot of you Atheists love to say that you care about human problems here and now, when us Christians are only concern about the after life. If that is the case, where are the atheist-run Rescue Missions, soup kitchens, Medical ships, after-school programs, Third World assistance organizations, and alcohol and drug rehabilitation programs? There are a number of godless secular programs (mostly run by tax dollars) and private programs, but where is the privately funded atheist equivalent of the Salvation Army, the world's 2nd largest welfare organization, second only to the United Nations?

You Atheists love to pull out the example of Bill Gates and his now full-time dedication to philanthropy, but that appears to be the exception more than the rule. In fact, according to a study by the Barna Group, charitable giving by atheists and agnostics in America is significantly less than by theists.

Since atheistic evolutionary thinking leads to  Social Darwinism and that you atheists have no 'rational' basis for morality in their ideology, the immoral views that atheists often hold and the low per capita giving of American atheists is not unpredictable.

As the bible informs us: Ps 14:1-3 1 "The fool has said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they do those things that I hate, there is none that does good." Atheists devote their time not to helping anyone out but rather bring hell to Earth. Just look at 'logical' and 'rational' atheistic countries like the Soviet Union and North Korea.

This is quite bizarre, you claim the moral high ground when your morals are based on the ramblings of bigoted men in the desert. Atheism is a reaction to Theism, it is not a set or morals or "guide" to life, you are completely confused on what Atheism actually is.

If you do a tiny bit of research, you might stumble upon Humanism. Your argument about morals and Atheism is highly flawed and shows you have done nothing to even research the meaning of the word.

And countries with highly religious leaders:

-Robert Mugabe - Catholic
-Francisco Franco - Roman Catholic
-Kim Il-sung - Presbyterianism
-Saddam Hussein - Sunni
-Emperor Hirohito - Shinto

I do no judge your religion by these tyrants, yet you are all to happy to fabricate a connection with Atheism and anything, you might consider evil. There are thousands of charity's all over the world that have no connection with religion. I am surprised you managed to ignore all of them.

I'll answer the original question and let others fight you over moral grounds

I do help those in need of my help because it makes me feel good, self-important and a bunch of other rather positive emotions.

I'm going to strain to ignore the ignorance and bigotry in your narrow-minded little rant. I'm just going to say that you really need to pull your head out of your ass sometime and open your eyes to the world around you.

In general, secular charities are difficult to identify because they do not operate under the arrogant banner of religion. These secular societies operate without the assumption of a god, floating teapots, magical flying unicorns, or smurfs:

http://www.interactworldwide.org/ (http://www.interactworldwide.org/)
http://www.wpf.org/ (http://www.wpf.org/)
http://www.ifpd.org/ (http://www.ifpd.org/)
http://www.iheu.org/node/1062 (http://www.iheu.org/node/1062)
http://www.iheu.org/ (http://www.iheu.org/)
http://newhumanist.org.uk/ra (http://newhumanist.org.uk/ra)
http://www.secularism.org.uk/ (http://www.secularism.org.uk/)
http://www.humanism.org.uk/home (http://www.humanism.org.uk/home)
http://www.secularhumanism.org/ (http://www.secularhumanism.org/)

Miscellaneous charities worth supporting as a secular humanist:
http://www.unicef.org/ (http://www.unicef.org/)
http://www.wwf.org/ (http://www.wwf.org/)
http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/ (http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/)
http://www.rspb.org.uk/ (http://www.rspb.org.uk/)
http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/ (http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/)
http://www.janegoodall.org/ (http://www.janegoodall.org/)
http://www.amnesty.org.za/ (http://www.amnesty.org.za/)

Atheist charities do not need to announce their atheism to the world because atheism is not a thing, it's a lack of a thing. Atheists do not believe in a god, so if we're going to form organisations proclaiming our lack of belief in a god then we had might as well do the same for our lack of belief in the above-mentioned nonsensical, irrational things too.

Personally, I live in a country where 8% of the 45million people are non-religious, pretty much non of which are outspoken atheists. 80% are Christian and this generally also entails a belief in ancestors, African witchcraft resulting in the deaths of millions of children annually (http://harlcazz.bravepages.com/library/Paganism/Pagan%20History%20and%20Facts/Witchhunts%20in%20Africa.htm), gods, and other irrational, unfounded superstitions (More on witches (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_petraitis/witch_killers.shtml)). As a result of this ridiculously high concentration of faith and belief in non-existent bullshit (granted, alongside economical and historical reasons as well) South Africa is in a ditch and struggling out of it much slower than it would be if our president wouldn't say things like, "Vote ANC (African National Congress, the presidential party) or else the ancestors will get you." There are gross divisions within the ranks of Christianity alone in SA ( Jacob Zuma continues to claim the divine right to rule South Africa. Not a true Christian. (http://www.biblebasedministries.co.uk/2009/04/14/jacob-zuma-continues-to-claim-the-anc%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Cdivine-right%E2%80%9D-to-rule-south-africa/) ) and this is just dragging SA further into the muck. Despite the extremely high levels of religion in SA, a woman is raped every 17 seconds, which amounts to 1300 women a day. 30% of adolescents report that their first sexual encounter was forced. 50 people are killed every day. There are 1 million orphans in our country. 50% of the population live in utter poverty, 14 million are unemployed, 13% are HIV positive, there are 4 million immigrants from poverty-stricken neighbouring countries, and we have a matric pass rate of 36.2%.

Before you berate other people for not having the same delusions as you, do your research first and at least make sure you understand the basics of the argument you're raising.
If you are pro-humanitarianism, no matter the form, then perhaps educating the uneducated masses who are lacking primary school education about the basics of breadline-existence would be better than telling them a supernatural deity who causes earthquakes, damns nonbelievers to hell, and murders millions upon millions of people on a whim will fix it all. Stop confusing secular humanism and atheism. And stop quoting from a dusty, unreliable text, which is not divine revelation, just to support your irrationality and bigotry.

Do not forget Red Cross. They claim religion neutrality. Their symbol has nothing to do with religion either - it's the Swiss flag in inverted colors. Has to do with the founder.

Quote from: "pj084527"

Quote from: "Tank"I personally support with a monthly subscription Amnesty International who do good work attempting to protect theistic sects from persecution in China. I have given up my time and refurbished a children's cancer hospital in Romania which I still support financially with a £25 monthly subscription. I spent a week there painting and redecorating the place stopping it from being closed. The group that did it were mixed atheists theists, That group still exists and continues humanitarian aid in the Balkans. I support Christian Aid as they do a lot of good and are a very efficient organisation.

I have done work for the Holocaust centre near Newark in the UK and also for organisations in Rwanda.

You did not read what I wrote. Just because you did something good doesn't change anything. Can you name any Atheist run charity organization anywhere near the size of Salvation Army? How about this, I will make things easier for you. Can you even name ONE atheist run charity organization? No? I thought so.

See above posts.  

Quote from: "pj084527"Can you even name ONE atheist run charity organization? No? I thought so.

You've already been given an answer to this by Tank, but since you missed that one I hope you don't mind me answering you briefly.
I founded the Fundaninathi program in Grahamstown, South Africa, operating in the Joza township providing schools with resources and equipment. C.M Vellem was the first school we were able to impact. It is a charity organisation and run by me: an atheist.
I was also the human rights education coordinator for Amnesty International, the treasurer for Give5 which fundraises for student bursaries, a narrator at the Grahamstown library for the blind, a volunteer tutor at township schools etc etc. Now stop your generalising and go read the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml), which I'm sure you'll quickly find is contradicted by your Bible at several articles. Re-evaluate what you base your own morality on before calling the morality of others into question.

Quote from: "kelltrill"

Quote from: "pj084527"Can you even name ONE atheist run charity organization? No? I thought so.

You've already been given an answer to this by Tank, but since you missed that one I hope you don't mind me answering you briefly.
I founded the Fundaninathi program in Grahamstown, South Africa, operating in the Joza township providing schools with resources and equipment. C.M Vellem was the first school we were able to impact. It is a charity organisation and run by me: an atheist.
I was also the human rights education coordinator for Amnesty International, the treasurer for Give5 which fundraises for student bursaries, a narrator at the Grahamstown library for the blind, a volunteer tutor at township schools etc etc. Now stop your generalising and go read the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml), which I'm sure you'll quickly find is contradicted by your Bible at several articles. Re-evaluate what you base your own morality on before calling the morality of others into question.

Bloody well done!  

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "kelltrill"You've already been given an answer to this by Tank, but since you missed that one I hope you don't mind me answering you briefly.
I founded the Fundaninathi program in Grahamstown, South Africa, operating in the Joza township providing schools with resources and equipment. C.M Vellem was the first school we were able to impact. It is a charity organisation and run by me: an atheist.
I was also the human rights education coordinator for Amnesty International, the treasurer for Give5 which fundraises for student bursaries, a narrator at the Grahamstown library for the blind, a volunteer tutor at township schools etc etc. Now stop your generalising and go read the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml), which I'm sure you'll quickly find is contradicted by your Bible at several articles. Re-evaluate what you base your own morality on before calling the morality of others into question.

Bloody well done!  

Too true. Well done indeed, kelltrill.

Well, pj...we do it because it helps and makes us feel good. We don't do it because we're afraid of going to hell and the promise of some other sort of idyllic afterlife.

I do it because I can empathise with others, put myself in their shoes as it were, and realise I wouldn't want to be where they are. So I do what I can to change the situation. In one sense I don't care why the help gets given just that it does. What I do object to is when preaching and prozletising goes along with the help. A few years ago my Mum proudly told me she had helped raise £500 to help the Chinese, I asked her what the money would be used for 'Buying Bibles' was her response. That was the nearest I ever got to bawling her out  

PJ, your post is one of the least informed, most ridiculous things I've read in years. Your questions have already been answered so I won't bother continuing to name secular aid organizations for you. I do wonder though if you are aware that there is no country called the Soviet Union. You may have heard something about it's demise in the news. You know, back in the 1990s.

Thank you brother and God bless you for posting this.

Atheist live a shallow and disgusting life, yet just like you perfectly nailed it, they are bluntly hypocrites. They only strive to find happiness by being as ruthless and wicked and sinful as they can, then claim they are good people while actual their only goal in life is to cause harm to good God fearing people are law abiding citizens.

It never fails that, no matter how condescending or snarky the atheists are, it's always the Christians that are going to be bashed when they answer a bunch of lies told about Christianity. It's actually becoming a religion to not have religion. Atheist's true motive is NOT to have an intelligent converstation but to be a troll and try to nit-pick and twist everything to suit his/her agenda and label Christians as troll for sharing our faith.

As for why there are no atheist charities, maybe the atheists are to busy attacking and insulting Christians and writing hatful books I guess? Or maybe it is just like as you said, they are too busy setting up dictatorships and killing innocent people.

By posting what you have takes alot of courage and guts and I prey that God will protect you from harm. There is no telling what these atheists will do to putdown outspoken Christians. These traitors and foreigners seem to want a voice, then stop everyone elses voice. Then scream about wanting equality and freedom.

These filthy vermin.

I hope you don't mind, but I would really like to use your article to spread around and share it in my church.

God bless you and stay safe!

Quote from: "AntiAtheist"Thank you brother and God bless you for posting this.

Atheist live a shallow and disgusting life, yet just like you perfectly nailed it, they are bluntly hypocrites. They only strive to find happiness by being as ruthless and wicked and sinful as they can, then claim they are good people while actual their only goal in life is to cause harm to good God fearing people are law abiding citizens.

It never fails that, no matter how condescending or snarky the atheists are, it's always the Christians that are going to be bashed when they answer a bunch of lies told about Christianity. It's actually becoming a religion to not have religion. Atheist's true motive is NOT to have an intelligent converstation but to be a troll and try to nit-pick and twist everything to suit his/her agenda and label Christians as troll for sharing our faith.

As for why there are no atheist charities, maybe the atheists are to busy attacking and insulting Christians and writing hatful books I guess? Or maybe it is just like as you said, they are too busy setting up dictatorships and killing innocent people.

By posting what you have takes alot of courage and guts and I prey that God will protect you from harm. There is no telling what these atheists will do to putdown outspoken Christians. These traitors and foreigners seem to want a voice, then stop everyone elses voice. Then scream about wanting equality and freedom.

These filthy vermin.

I hope you don't mind, but I would really like to use your article to spread around and share it in my church.

God bless you and stay safe!

What a wonderful example of a theist you are. Filled with ignorance and hate for what you don't understand.

Thank you for such wonderful material to expose the stupidity of some (fortunately the minority) of people who have 'faith'.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg517.imageshack.us%2Fimg517%2F6655%2Fpmslsu0.gif&hash=864936626eaf8fd08f72c935dec3770cf5cd5bb5)

Quote from: "pj084527"Can you even name ONE atheist run charity organization? No? I thought so.

Atheists helping the homeless (Austin, Texas)
Fellowship of Freethought homeless outreach, lake cleanup, adopt a highway etc (Dallas, Texas)
Red Cross (secular)

[strike:l6u6gpec]Now, tell me why I shouldn't ban you for being an uncivil ass?[/strike:l6u6gpec]  AntiAtheist is a sockpuppet to pj's ...both are now banned.

Quote from: "AntiAtheist"Thank you brother and God bless you for posting this.

Atheist live a shallow and disgusting life,

A matter of perception, I reckon. I think it's shallow immoral and disgusting to live a life based on fear of going to hell.

Quoteyet just like you perfectly nailed it, they are bluntly hypocrites.

Jesus says:
•   Abandon all your Earthly ambitions.
•   Forsake your Earthly family and give your loyalty to God and your fellow believers.  
•   Sell everything you own and use the money to do good works.  
•   Avoid receiving any Earthly reward for your good works.  
•   Follow the Mosaic Law, both the letter and the spirit of it.  
•   Abstain from all sin, inside and out;
•   Abstain from covetousness
•   Abstain from anger
•   Abstain from lust.
•   Abstain from adultery.  
•   Do WHATEVER YOU NEED TO DO to abstain from lust.  
•   Practice strict nonviolent pacifism.
•   Do not resist evil.
•   Do not strike back.
•   Do good to those who hate you.  
•   Practice mercy and forgiveness and peacemaking.
•   Do not judge others; Judgment Day will come soon enough.  
•   Seek to purify your own character, strive to "be perfect, even as your father in Heaven is perfect."
•   Over-fulfill the Law seeking to follow the spirit of it as well as the letter.
•   Kill those that do not believe.
•   Abstain from swearing false oaths.

I know of no Christian that can and will do all of these things. Who is a hypocrite?
 

QuoteThey only strive to find happiness by being as ruthless and wicked and sinful as they can,

Have you read the Old Testament lately? Have you not read the history of the Crusades? The entire Christian mindset is built upon wickedness and suffering.

Quotethen claim they are good people while actual their only goal in life is to cause harm to good God fearing people are law abiding citizens.

So atheists are not law abiding? Atheists are not good? Why is it that there are more Chritians in prisons and jails than there are athiests?
The Federal Bureau of Prisons does have statistics on religious
affiliations of inmates.  The following are total number of
inmates per religion category (circa 1997):

Response              Number      %
----------------------------  --------
Catholic               29267   39.164%
Protestant           26162   35.008%
Muslim                 5435    7.273%
American Indian    2408    3.222%
Nation                  1734    2.320%
Rasta                   1485    1.987%
Jewish                  1325    1.773%
Church of Christ    1303    1.744%
Pentecostal          1093    1.463%
Moorish                 1066    1.426%
Buddhist                 882    1.180%
Jehovah Witness     665    0.890%
Adventist               621    0.831%
Orthodox               375    0.502%
Mormon                 298    0.399%
Scientology            190    0.254%
Atheist                  156    0.209%
Hindu                    119    0.159%
Santeria                 117    0.157%
Sikh                      14    0.019%
Bahai                      9    0.012%
Krishna                   7    0.009%
----------------------------  --------
Total Known Responses  74731  100.001% (rounding to 3 digits does this)

QuoteIt never fails that, no matter how condescending or snarky the atheists are, it's always the Christians that are going to be bashed when they answer a bunch of lies told about Christianity.

Well, you are right about one thing...Christianity is full of lies.

QuoteIt's actually becoming a religion to not have religion.

Apparently, Christians don't know the definition of 'religion'.

QuoteAtheist's true motive is NOT to have an intelligent converstation but to be a troll and try to nit-pick and twist everything to suit his/her agenda and label Christians as troll for sharing our faith.

Funny how you're here butting into OUR intelligent conversation.

QuoteAs for why there are no atheist charities,

You may want to scroll up and see all the charities that's been listed. But I doubt you will.

Quotemaybe the atheists are to busy attacking and insulting Christians

I see that when you attack and insult atheists, it isn't the same.

Quoteand writing hatful books I guess?

I'm not quite understanding this. Hatful?

QuoteOr maybe it is just like as you said, they are too busy setting up dictatorships and killing innocent people.

Jim Jones ring a bell?

QuoteBy posting what you have takes alot of courage and guts

No it doesn't. It's quite simple really. All are welcome.

Quoteand I prey that God will protect you from harm.

There's a bunch of Kentucky miners that do the same thing. Too bad God doesn't always hear their prayers.

QuoteThere is no telling what these atheists will do to putdown outspoken Christians.

You can be as outspoken as you wish. Dropping the insults and arrogance would certainly help. So would trying to legislate your religious views.

QuoteThese traitors

As far as I know, not believing in a god is not a traitorous offence in the United States. It is in Iran, though.

Quoteand foreigners seem to want a voice,

You seem to conveniently forget that this country was founded by foreigners, displacing the indigenous people.

Quotethen stop everyone elses voice.

So did many of the early American Puritans.

QuoteThen scream about wanting equality and freedom.

What does this have to do with god?

QuoteThese filthy vermin.

Not unlike the Christian plague?

QuoteI hope you don't mind, but I would really like to use your article to spread around and share it in my church.

I don't mind. I have lots of articles.

QuoteGod bless you and stay safe!

May the force and the volcano god Vulcanus do the same for you.

Quote from: "Whitney"AntiAtheist is a sockpuppet to pj's ...both are now banned.[/color]

Well....poooh. All that trouble for nothing...

Excellent deconstruction and response Gawen.  

Quote from: "Gawen"Well....poooh. All that trouble for nothing...

Hardly. That was a very entertaining read ^_^

Quote from: "Whitney"AntiAtheist is a sockpuppet to pj's ...both are now banned.

And good riddance!

Quote from: "kelltrill"

Quote from: "Gawen"

Well....poooh. All that trouble for nothing...

Hardly. That was a very entertaining read ^_^[/quote]
Hear, hear! It wasn't a wasted effort, lots of good points in there.

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "Whitney"AntiAtheist is a sockpuppet to pj's ...both are now banned.

And good riddance!

Ah, yes, nothing like good christian values demonstrated for all to see! Good catch, Whitney. I hadn't even looked to see if that was what was going on.

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "kelltrill"

Quote from: "Gawen"

Well....poooh. All that trouble for nothing...

Hardly. That was a very entertaining read ^_^

Hear, hear! It wasn't a wasted effort, lots of good points in there.[/quote]

I agree with Tank. Still a great read!

Great way to start Memorial Day, hm?

Quote from: "Gawen"

Quote from: "Whitney"AntiAtheist is a sockpuppet to pj's ...both are now banned.[/color]

Well....poooh. All that trouble for nothing...

Think of it as a post for all the lurking christians who are like pj and needed to see why pj was out of line.

I am so freaking glad I did not get up early enough to read this crap before butthead was banned.  :mad:

Quote from: "pj084527"A lot of you Atheists love to say that you care about human problems here and now, when us Christians are only concern about the after life. If that is the case, where are the atheist-run Rescue Missions, soup kitchens, Medical ships, after-school programs, Third World assistance organizations, and alcohol and drug rehabilitation programs? There are a number of godless secular programs (mostly run by tax dollars) and private programs, but where is the privately funded atheist equivalent of the Salvation Army, the world's 2nd largest welfare organization, second only to the United Nations?

You Atheists love to pull out the example of Bill Gates and his now full-time dedication to philanthropy, but that appears to be the exception more than the rule. In fact, according to a study by the Barna Group, charitable giving by atheists and agnostics in America is significantly less than by theists.

Since atheistic evolutionary thinking leads to  Social Darwinism and that you atheists have no 'rational' basis for morality in their ideology, the immoral views that atheists often hold and the low per capita giving of American atheists is not unpredictable.

As the bible informs us: Ps 14:1-3 1 "The fool has said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they do those things that I hate, there is none that does good." Atheists devote their time not to helping anyone out but rather bring hell to Earth. Just look at 'logical' and 'rational' atheistic countries like the Soviet Union and North Korea.

Being an atheist and having worked in the several fields including research and social services, I think I'm qualified to answer these ridiculous claims even though pj cannot retort - I shall provide this information for the benefit of others here.

First thing to realize is the disparity in number - to put it bluntly, there are way more Christians/religious folk than atheists.  Secondly, atheist organizations are very small and relatively new - it's difficult to organize a diverse set of people who only really have one single belief in common as well - the lack of belief in god(s).  There is no outlined central doctrine which we follow or attempt or at least pretend we adhere to like religions thus making it more difficult to organize.  Another large barrier to organization is social stigma - I've personally seen organizations turn down aid from atheist groups simply because they did not want to be affiliated with atheists.  To circumvent this problem many organizations do not utilize the terms "atheist" or "freethinker" or the like and simply declare themselves "secular".

As for your support from the Barna Group - you do realize that the Barna Group is a religiously based?  But the website you got the info from seemed legit right? Yeah sure.  From their own website they state:

QuoteBarna Research Group provides primary research services to organizations focused on enhancing people’s spiritual lives.

I severely doubt their research can be without bias when it comes to the possibility of portraying atheists in a decent light.  But let's examine their "research details" relating to one article about atheists.  It states:

QuoteResearch Details

This report is based upon a series of nationwide telephone surveys conducted by The Barna Group with random samples of adults, age 18 and older. These surveys were conducted from January 2005 through January 2007. In total, those studies included 1055 adults who identified themselves as atheists or agnostics. The maximum margin of sampling error associated with the aggregate sample of atheists and agnostics is ±3.2 percentage points at the 95% confidence level. The cumulative sample of active-faith adults was 3011 interviews, accurate to within +1.8 percentage points. The minimum number of active-faith adults interviewed in each study was 250 individuals (+6.5 percentage points), while each study included a minimum of 100 atheists and agnostics (+10.0 percentage points). Statistical weighting was used to calibrate the sample to known population percentages in relation to demographic variables.

Seems scientific enough right?  Not exactly - this information really doesn't mean much at all.  We have no idea what statistics they utilize or even how their surveys were constructed - did they adhere to measurement theory when constructing these surveys?  What model(s) did they use - IRT? SES?  What was the wording?  What did the correlational matrix used for the construction of the survey look like?  Or did they just throw together some questions without considering any of this?  This is the type of information that would be included in a scientific publication.

It's easy to dazzle the average person with bullshit dressed up like research.

Umm.... I gave to Haiti. Does that count? Or did they "deserve" that earthquake for their "pact with the devil"?

Btw, this troll's username looks very familiar.

Of course this is by no means a complete list as there are hundreds of atheist run and secular charities but check out Atheist Charities (http://www.squidoo.com/Atheist-Charities) anyway.  Make special note of the Atheist Centre of India, it's old, it's huge, and it has saved uncounted lives, probably millions because of its dogged opposition to deadly religious practices such as Sati and female infanticide since the 1940s.

Personally, I've spent about 15 years working in soup kitchens and homeless shelters and I've taken 17 homeless teens and young adults into my home over the years.  I've also taught skills to developmentally disabled adults, participated in literacy programs, and brought food to hungry people with money from my own pocket and with my own hands.   I do none of this to please a deity but to please myself, to better love the woman in the mirror, but most of all because I know that human beings are the only ones that can help each other.  It's a natural part of human nature when it isn't clouded by hateful indoctrination.  If you and I don't act as good and loving members of the human family, who will?  

How many years of your life have you dedicated to actual, real charity and not just laying money in the basket they pass around at church?  

Have you seen the ministers' cars and pastors' homes your "charity" has bought?  Wouldn't it make you feel better to feed a starving child or to let a homeless person sleep on your couch?  Isn't that better than just paying so some person can lead a life of wealth better than your own just for giving a speech once a week to remind you that you are a sinner and then to pass around the plate again?

There aren't enough eye rolling emoticons in the world for this post.

I regularly donate blood to the Red Cross.
I often take homeless people off the street and take them to get food, which I pay for with my own money.
I have volunteered with the Special Olympics.
I sponsored a child in need from Colombia at a time when I was working for $5.15 an hour, which can't even be considered a living wage.
Almost every year, I do give money to the bell ringers from the Salvation Army.
I frequently make monetary or food donations to various good will charities.
I have worked thankless jobs caring for the developmentally disabled for little pay, because I care more about helping other people than making a buck.

But who cares, because I'm an atheist.  Better to line the pockets of the church than to participate in charities that actually do help people.  

I LOLed when I saw pj had to bring in a sock puppet for reinforcements, though.  Point proven.  If what you have to say is actually of value, then you don't need to create fake personas to agree with you.

Awr, I am too late, he is already banned.  :)

Quote from: "Kylyssa"Atheist Charities (http://www.squidoo.com/Atheist-Charities)

A fabulous lens, and I got so lost in exploring your other lenses. Great stuff!  

Quote from: "Sophus"Umm.... I gave to Haiti. Does that count? Or did they "deserve" that earthquake for their "pact with the devil"?

Btw, this troll's username looks very familiar.

Ha! I forgot all about the pact!

Quote from: "Albino_Raptor"Awr, I am too late, he is already banned.  
Well, I am sure he will be back again when he finds a few minutes to spare talking when his mouth is not occupied with sucking Jesus' dong.  :)

I think you were just trying to be cute and take a crack at people like pj...but just a reminder that talking about Christians sucking Jesus dong isn't really in line with a civil atmosphere.

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "Albino_Raptor"Awr, I am too late, he is already banned.  
Well, I am sure he will be back again when he finds a few minutes to spare talking when his mouth is not occupied with sucking Jesus' dong.  :)

I think you were just trying to be cute and take a crack at people like pj...but just a reminder that talking about Christians sucking Jesus dong isn't really in line with a civil atmosphere.

People like him? I have no respect for whatsoever indeed and will make that clearly known with choice words.
I will make sure to keep my mouth more in check in the future then.
Which will not be easy because that was pretty harmless for me... but I am sure I will manage.

Quote from: "Albino_Raptor"

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "Albino_Raptor"Awr, I am too late, he is already banned.  
Well, I am sure he will be back again when he finds a few minutes to spare talking when his mouth is not occupied with sucking Jesus' dong.  :)

I think you were just trying to be cute and take a crack at people like pj...but just a reminder that talking about Christians sucking Jesus dong isn't really in line with a civil atmosphere.

People like him? I have no respect for whatsoever indeed and will make that clearly known with choice words.
I will make sure to keep my mouth more in check in the future then.
Which will not be easy because that was pretty harmless for me... but I am sure I will manage.

Thanks. Keep in mind the name of the forum you are on. We aim to be different than the thousands of "flame war" sites out there. If you would rather use choice words and do that sort of thing, you have you pick of those sites to do so. We ask that you keep it in check here.

I hope i'm not repeating someone...but on the countries that are "rational" and "logical" that have atheist leaders...religion has Hitler...he was Roman Catholic and he says in some of his speeches "For the Fatherland in the name of God". You also have Sultan Saladin...Saddam Hussein...Richard the Lionheart....etc. They as a whole dwarf the "evil" done by Stalin (who was just messed in the head) and North Korea (inspired by a man messed in the head)
Btw...not talking about Karl Marx

Quote from: "Albino_Raptor"

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "Albino_Raptor"Awr, I am too late, he is already banned.  
Well, I am sure he will be back again when he finds a few minutes to spare talking when his mouth is not occupied with sucking Jesus' dong.  :)

I think you were just trying to be cute and take a crack at people like pj...but just a reminder that talking about Christians sucking Jesus dong isn't really in line with a civil atmosphere.

People like him? I have no respect for whatsoever indeed and will make that clearly known with choice words.
I will make sure to keep my mouth more in check in the future then.
Which will not be easy because that was pretty harmless for me... but I am sure I will manage.

I couldn't hack it either, Albino. The rules here make the place really dry compared to what I'm used to. (Compared to what I'm used to- to offense intended at all.)  That's ok, to each his own. Everyone is comfortable with something different. I recommend Happy Atheist to friends who find other places too confrontational so I will recommend Debate Unlimited to you. They would have enjoyed your jesus dong comment as much as I did.

I think dogsmycopilot makes a valid point, in that if all fora were the same it would be very boring. I don't enjoy confrontation for confrontations sake all the time. I'll have a go at idiotic ideas with the best of them but flame wars are not constructive, ever. Nobody ever wins a flame war they are just pissing contests of who can display the worst manners. Yet I don't find this place 'dry' at all, oh no, it makes me think about what other people say and how I should respond. This is much more a game of chess than a bear pit. Different people, different places, different times of life and different world views sharing a place where ideas, not insults, can be traded in an amicable environment. I like this place for those reasons. Dry? No. Intellectually challenging and stimulating? Oh yes!  

You claim that we have no morals only because we do not believe in the Bible?
Christians should be the last to talk about morals, it is you after all who brainwash young people
to become soldiers and tell them that God is on their side and wants them to kill the enemy.
Without that we wouldn't even need most of the medical ships.
Oh and I think you forgot to add the "after school molesting in church program for little boys"  

You ask why we don't assemble under one flag?
Because that sounds like religion. It is clear you were pounded this stuff into your head for a long time;
that everyone must belong to a solid group of people and that if they do not belong to yours - they're the enemy.
This becomes even more clear reading the verse you posted.

"(...) there is none that does good."
Yesterday I fed doves. Guess that makes your God a liar.

The difference between you guys and us free thinkers is that you get told who your enemies and friends are,
we however question things, and decide for our self.

Quote from: "pj084527"

Quote from: "pinkocommie"Wow.  I didn't even read this, the title was so incredibly insulting.

How is that insulting at all? The title doesn’t say, ‘Imagine No Atheists’ or 'The Atheist Delusion' . All I want is a public debate. I want you atheists to defend some of your unethical and behavior.

The title sounds a bit insulting because it sounds as though you are assuming that atheists are not interested in helping people in need.  You could have worded things a bit better

I help people in need.  I just don't need to put a flag atop my aid.  

After all, conformity isn't to my taste.

As a Christian I find this offensive but never the less a problem if Atheism is going to dominate and become a kind of godless utopia.

Let me express some things that I see that may be true regardless of if a bottom up process or from the top down.

We ALL have a moral compass and at least seem to think in objective moral terms IE:

Do you have your Neighbors for dinner or do you have them over for dinner?

Is incest now ok if you use the appropriate birth control?

Just some examples of how we tend to act as if there is an objective moral absolute.

Some naturalists are into game theory to try and explain the bottom up process.

I have a close Family member who is a staunch conservative and atheist that would help anyone in need given an opportunity.  He has sure helped me.

Now remember that the first statement was in a polemical style that does illustrate that if atheism is the truth awakening of all us deluded people then religious institutions like Hospitals and Charities like the salvation army are going to have to naturally give way to the coming tide of secular dominance.  I see a lot of links posted that seem to point to that very thing.  Yet given the earths population and the statistically small number of out of the closet atheists there is more work to be done.  I also would look to nations like China that has a government that requires atheism to be a party member as a glimpse of this future and yes I don't discount countries like Switzerland who where culturally Christian at one time.

I do believe that God has never the less built in our moral compass as evidence against an amoral and uncaring universe.  I don't see anybody other then the sociopath as being able to exhibit the more amoral nature of most of the animal kingdom.  Yet I have to remember that I am branded as deluded so my observation that God created us all as moral agents with a moral compass does tend to be my teleological thinking as I observe human nature.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/ ... 2010-05-29 (http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=people-with-aspergers-less-likely-t-2010-05-29)

freeservent...care to go through your own post and critique where you said things that could be taken as offensive by atheists?  I'll give you one example (though there are others)...since when were all hospitals religious institutions?

Quote from: "Whitney"freeservent...care to go through your own post and critique where you said things that could be taken as offensive by atheists?  I'll give you one example (though there are others)...since when were all hospitals religious institutions?

I grant that not all Hospitals are religiously funded.  I was in Parkland Hospital for my accident and I have no doubt that it is secular.  Yet it had a Chaplains office that was vital to contacting my family members and was there to offer any spiritual help.  Most of the Nurses and Doctors where amazed at my recovery and certainly did not object to my pointing to God as a component of that recovery.  Think of the Hospitals that are linked to and get some funding from religious institutions?  By necessity they would go the way of the Dinosaur along with charities like the salvation army.

I grant that there is a chance that my polemic may ruffle some feathers but this is all food for thought as atheists would naturally want to secularize and sanitize these institutions from the cancer that is religion. amiright?

Oh and I forgot to mention The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation as example of what well funded atheistic charities might look like: http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Pages/home.aspx (http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Pages/home.aspx)

Quote from: "freeservant"I grant that there is a chance that my polemic may ruffle some feathers but this is all food for thought as atheists would naturally want to secularize and sanitize these institutions from the cancer that is religion. amiright?

It's not really easy to pin down what atheists in general would or wouldn't want.    Personally, I see nothing wrong with someone holding any belief, religious or otherwise.  It's when beliefs are politicized and imposed on others instead of striving for true equality that I become a vocal opposition of religion.  Otherwise I think of it as something people either get into or they don't.  To me, religiousness is the same thing as being really into any specific subject.  I really love cartoons and toys.  Other people really love their god.  Whatever.  

Religious services in hospitals don't bother me, I think it fulfills the emotional needs of certain people and makes the hospital a more tolerable place for enough people that it's warranted.  Just like having nice big calming aquariums and fountains in hospitals fulfills the emotional needs of people, religious practitioners and a room dedicated to prayer facilitate yet another avenue for people to cope with their hospital experiences.  Now, if they put a cross in every room and said prayers over you and stuff, that would bother me.  Having the option available?  Totally cool with that.  I'm just one atheist though, I'm sure plenty of people may not agree with me on this.

The Red Cross is an example of what an atheist charity would look like as it is completely secular...and that's just a well recognized example.  Atheists haven't tended to slap atheist, freethought, etc onto their community support projects in the past because they didn't feel the need to and even feared doing so would harm their efforts....times are changing; I just started a thread (today or yesterday) to help list all the the (many) atheist/freethought run non-profit and charity groups out there.

What is offensive about your post is that you are acting like things would all go down the toilet if the world were turned over to atheists tomorrow....there is simply no basis for that conclusion (aside from fundamentalist religious people freaking out because they think we're the devil).

Quote from: "pinkocommie"Totally cool with that.  I'm just one atheist though, I'm sure plenty of people may not agree with me on this.

I do not posit that atheism is a monolith unless it is a monolith of cats being herded.  Yet there is a kind of Richard Dawkins / Sam Harris inference of a godless utopia to come once we are all freed from the shackles of child abusing religion and how it keeps us from our evolutionary progression.  Humanism is an effort to kind of get the cats in more of a cohesive group but then you have to recognize that some theists would fear the Nihilism to come.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... e-religion (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201005/why-atheism-will-replace-religion)

I don't know that I think the above article to be true but I can't find the quote about how the only real way to get rid of a religion is with a new religion.  Maybe scientism will do the trick.  Otherwise the vital link with God will cause Christianity to never be totally defeated until the Second Coming of Christs closes the issue.  Yet I do see an endtime effort to secularize and privatize Christian religious views.  If Atheism is the truth and is clearly the new paradigm to come then it should rise in this free and open marketplace of ideas.  Or it will close the marketplace and rise that way.  You can see where both are being tried.

And as far as herding cats go there is the idea that once we have rid mankind of the God idea the Government will have to replace God.

Quote"Once abolish the God, and the government becomes the God." - Christendom in Dublin, 1933
--G K Chesterton

But you are likely tired of hearing that...

Quote from: "Whitney"The Red Cross is an example of what an atheist charity would look like as it is completely secular... snip

What is offensive about your post is that you are acting like things would all go down the toilet if the world were turned over to atheists tomorrow....there is simply no basis for that conclusion (aside from fundamentalist religious people freaking out because they think we're the devil).

I don't think atheists are the devil as even Satan wants to be recognized and bowed down to as the rightful prince of this earth.  And there is prophecy that he will be loosed for a short time to get just the sort of worship he craves.  In that possible world the atheist is going to have just as hard a time as the true Bible believing Christian as even the elect would be deceived if God permitted it.

If atheism is the correct truth and is the natural consequence of mankind advancing then no, in no way will all go to hell in a hand-basket.  Well... There is an ecological sustainability issue we all have to deal with that may mean a mass extinction event regardless but let us both hope that we are clever enough to figure out what to do.  That is if God is not indeed in control.  But I can see that if there is no God then we are going to be in trouble now that we are abandoning things like the space program and the needed scientific advances that we give up with that.  Regardless the ascendancy of atheism will not be any kind of notable cause for any kind of instant crash or flushing sound...

Quote from: "freeservant"abandoning things like the space program and the needed scientific advances that we give up with that. .

Don't worry, they are just retiring this generation of space shuttles, not shutting down the whole program:

QuoteAt the core of NASA's future in space exploration is a return to the moon, where we will build a sustainable, long-term human presence.

As the space shuttle approaches retirement, NASA is building the next fleet of vehicles to service the International Space Station and return humans to the moon, and possibly to Mars and beyond. In support of these efforts, ESMD is performing field tests, designing surface systems and conducting advanced human research to ensure that future missions are safe, sustainable and affordable.

On Feb. 1, 2010, the President released the FY 2011 Budget Request. The budget proposes several exciting new programs that seek to foster a sustainable human space exploration enterprise. Although our philosophy and approach to exploration will change, our fundamental goal remains the same: to send human explorers into the solar system to stay.

http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/home/index.html (http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/home/index.html)

QuoteNow remember that the first statement was in a polemical style that does illustrate that if atheism is the truth awakening of all us deluded people then religious institutions like Hospitals and Charities like the salvation army are going to have to naturally give way to the coming tide of secular dominance.

The unexamined premise in this passage is that goodness is monopolized by religion.

It deserves scrutiny.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"

QuoteNow remember that the first statement was in a polemical style that does illustrate that if atheism is the truth awakening of all us deluded people then religious institutions like Hospitals and Charities like the salvation army are going to have to naturally give way to the coming tide of secular dominance.

The unexamined premise in this passage is that goodness is monopolized by religion.

It deserves scrutiny.

Yes it does deserve scrutiny as I already think that mankind is not inherently good unlike the romantics view.  But I see us ALL as having a moral compass and natural desires to do what is right.  Again beyond the issue of a bottom up or top down process it means that goodness should have no monopoly.  Harmful and terrible things have been done in the name of religion.  Good and wonderful things have been done by non-believers.  That is why the Christian views this as a fallen world with the disposition to entropy.  We all know that we should be more selfless and that there is a perpetual injustice in this world and the suffering all around us.  Humanism is an effort to see that religion does not have a monopoly.  But any relativism that exists means that nihilism is going to be the ultimate blind and reckless master...

To any fellow Christian that may be reading this I would say that we need to not be puffed up as we are all more alike in our nature to do good/evil as anybody else.

Quote from: "freeservant"But any relativism that exists means that nihilism is going to be the ultimate blind and reckless master.

Nonsense. My life has the meaning I assign it, whether you share my morals or not.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"

Quote from: "freeservant"But any relativism that exists means that nihilism is going to be the ultimate blind and reckless master.

Nonsense. My life has the meaning I assign it, whether you share my morals or not.

Well said. The opinion of another person about me has no impact on me, unless I let it. I choose to not let it have an effect on me. If a person wants to sit in a pile of self pity and wail about how their life is a pile of poo that's their time to waste. I'll take my dogs for a walk and chat to all the other people taking their dogs for a walk  

The OP is remarkably stupid and offensive, even considering that it was written by a religious nut.

Speaking personally, I've spent most of my adult life working with people with learning disability, mental health issues and/ or substance misuse problems. I've done that sort of work because I genuinely care about my fellow human beings. I could have earned much more money doing other stuff, but I prefer doing work that makes the world a better place to doing work that gets me lots of cash.

In my experience, atheists are no more or less likely to work in the care sector than theists. On the other hand, atheists are more likely to do their job well. Many theists get into this sort of work for entirely the wrong reasons- they see a vulnerable group of people, and they want to proselytize them. I've seen plenty of this sort of unprofessional crap over the years. There are also theists who do care work because god told them to (its a calling, or whatever)- those sanctimonious halfwits aren't much better than the evangelicals.

Quote from: "Caecilian"Many theists get into this sort of work for entirely the wrong reasons- they see a vulnerable group of people, and they want to proselytize them. I've seen plenty of this sort of unprofessional crap over the years.

A nurse tried to proselytize to my mother right after she had surgery by trying to get her frightened of death.  Good thing my dad had stepped out before she did that, not that I didn't feel light punching the nurse's lights out myself.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"A nurse tried to proselytize to my mother right after she had surgery by trying to get her frightened of death.  Good thing my dad had stepped out before she did that, not that I didn't feel light punching the nurse's lights out myself.

Thats exactly the kind of thing that I was talking about. Sadly, it happens rather a lot.

What you won't find is atheist nurses trying to talk patients out of their beliefs.

Religious beliefs can also cloud people's professional judgement rather severely. An extreme example:

Some years ago, I worked with a young woman with disassociative personality disorder (multiple personalities). From a theoretical perspective, its a fascinating condition; in practical terms she was a real handful- very needy, very confused, also extremely likeable. One of my co-workers, who was a hardline fundie, became convinced that she was possessed by demons. He even told her this, encouraged her to not engage with mental health services, and tried to get her to join his church (with the aim of getting her exorcized).

When it became clear what the stupid fucker had been up to he was suspended, and subsequently sacked (I'm pleased to say that I had a hand in this). I don't know what happened to the young woman- last I heard she was in hospital (again), but that was many years ago- I moved to another part of the country a few months after the co-worker went.

This was just the worst example of the kind of stuff that happened in that particular job. The whole experience of working with fundies (there were quite a few of 'em) is what changed me from being an apathetic atheist to being a militant atheist.

Quote from: "Caecilian"

Quote from: "Kylyssa"A nurse tried to proselytize to my mother right after she had surgery by trying to get her frightened of death.  Good thing my dad had stepped out before she did that, not that I didn't feel light punching the nurse's lights out myself.

Thats exactly the kind of thing that I was talking about. Sadly, it happens rather a lot.

What you won't find is atheist nurses trying to talk patients out of their beliefs.

Religious beliefs can also cloud people's professional judgement rather severely. An extreme example:

Some years ago, I worked with a young woman with disassociative personality disorder (multiple personalities). From a theoretical perspective, its a fascinating condition; in practical terms she was a real handful- very needy, very confused, also extremely likeable. One of my co-workers, who was a hardline fundie, became convinced that she was possessed by demons. He even told her this, encouraged her to not engage with mental health services, and tried to get her to join his church (with the aim of getting her exorcized).

When it became clear what the stupid fucker had been up to he was suspended, and subsequently sacked (I'm pleased to say that I had a hand in this). I don't know what happened to the young woman- last I heard she was in hospital (again), but that was many years ago- I moved to another part of the country a few months after the co-worker went.

This was just the worst example of the kind of stuff that happened in that particular job. The whole experience of working with fundies (there were quite a few of 'em) is what changed me from being an apathetic atheist to being a militant atheist.

One thing that seems to be on the rise in certain areas of the US (maybe other places?  If so, forgive my ignorance. ) are religious groups setting up what is essentially fake clinics for women specifically so that if a girl goes in search of birth control, condoms, medical services (like a pap or an abortion), or even just information  and she accidentally wanders into one of these places, she'll be told all about abstinence, religion, and - if pregnant - about how abortion is murder and giving the baby to a religious organization or a religious family who wants to adopt it is really the only choice open to her if she doesn't want to raise the child herself.  It's horrible.  The last I heard, at least one state was talking about making these groups put some sort of indication in their windows so that girls could tell just by looking at the place that it was actually a religious group and not a medical facility, but that's all I've really heard about.  Thank Mighty Atheismo for Planned Parenting.  =D

Quote from: "pinkocommie"One thing that seems to be on the rise in certain areas of the US (maybe other places?  If so, forgive my ignorance. ) are religious groups setting up what is essentially fake clinics for women specifically so that if a girl goes in search of birth control, condoms, medical services (like a pap or an abortion), or even just information  and she accidentally wanders into one of these places, she'll be told all about abstinence, religion, and - if pregnant - about how abortion is murder and giving the baby to a religious organization or a religious family who wants to adopt it is really the only choice open to her if she doesn't want to raise the child herself.  It's horrible.  The last I heard, at least one state was talking about making these groups put some sort of indication in their windows so that girls could tell just by looking at the place that it was actually a religious group and not a medical facility, but that's all I've really heard about.  Thank Mighty Atheismo for Planned Parenting.  =D

Now that is exceptionally grim. I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't be possible to pull that sort of stunt in the UK- but then this is a much more secular place than the US.

The 'fake abortion clinic' thing kinda demonstrates just how unprincipled many christians are. Nothing corrodes ethical principles like fanaticism, and nothing produces fanaticism like religion.

"How is that insulting at all? The title doesn’t say, ‘Imagine No Atheists’ or 'The Atheist Delusion' . All I want is a public debate. I want you atheists to defend some of your unethical and behavior."

I'm kind of sorry the guy got banned, I would love to have handled this, as I have done so on a number of occasions over the years.  I liked the answer someone gave that Atheism, unlike theism, is NOT a belief system.

I know MANY, MANY atheists who do good deeds, myself included.  I would like to know what the excuse is for all the evils done in the name of religion.

Everybody has already said what I would have said, except they said it better!

Quote from: "AsylumSeeker"Everybody has already said what I would have said, except they said it better!

It is very possible that the same would be said about what you say.

Quote from: "Martin TK"I know MANY, MANY atheists who do good deeds, myself included.  I would like to know what the excuse is for all the evils done in the name of religion.

What god wills cannot be evil. God, after all, is omni-benovolent, so by definition everything done according to his will and law must also be benevolent. Regardless of how bad it is.

Which has the effect of:

1. Completely destroying any possibility of real ethics. God massacred most of humanity in the flood, he called down the plague in Egypt, he drowned the pharoh's army in the Red Sea, he authorized David to sack numerous cities. And worst of all: he condemns countless souls to eternal torment. So theres nothing wrong with mass murder or torture per se.

2. Utterly defiling and degrading the whole concept of goodness. If the actions of yahweh are good, then I'll take evil, thanks very much.

I changed the OP question from don't to do since the don't part was not only derogatory but was annoying me