Happy Atheist Forum

As much as I believe we would have discovered it now if there were other forces proving a higher power, how can we always rely on empirical evidence if we can't always see the force behind the physical laws of the universe?

If there is some sort of higher power and there is no way to know it is there (such as the deist god) then we would still be justified in not believing in it unless it made itself become observable.

You know what else can't be observed or evidenced empirically? Nothing. Yep, you can't observe nothing. You can't evidence nothing.  :cool:

Last but certainly not least, "how can we always rely on empirical evidence if we can't always see the force behind the physical laws of the universe"? Well, we can see the effects of those "laws", which means they are observable (even if not directly) and thus can be empirically evidenced. Empiricism does not require direct observation, the phenomenon simply has to be detectable in some way.  

I have no problem with speculating all sorts of things, silly to serious. In the end though, if the speculation can't be confirmed, then the speculation is only useful for speculation.

Knowing how things work, being able to demonstrate them, being able to explain them and to test them has allowed for technological advancements such as curing diseases, going into space and feeding people. Just thinking there is some creator thing that made all this stuff up, hasn't done too much.

Well there are "higher powers" that exist but can't be observed, only their effects can be observed. Nobody has ever seen gravity. Are you talking about an intelligent higher power?

Yeah, like a god of some form or being that is higher than us.

If something isn't empirically observable because it has literally no force or effect on anything else, it may as well not be there.

Then... we shouldn't worry about it because we'll never know anyways?

Quote from: "Sophus"Then... we shouldn't worry about it because we'll never know anyways?

It's for certiain that a higher power will destroy the earth someday. That higher power is the sun, or maybe an asteroid, or maybe a full-blown nuclear war. But I don't worry about it. It will definitely be something to get our heads around when it starts happening though! Just imagine what David Letterman's opening monologue would be: "Did you hear about this? The sun's going super-nova next week. Paul, you made any plans yet?"  

That's not to say that I watch David Letterman. I can't stand the guy.

Look, I could be destroyed by a massive stroke as soon as I get up from the chair I'm sitting in. But I see no point in worrying about it.

Religion very much wants us to worry about such things. Even Buddhism insists that life is suffering. Those of us who are fortunate enough to be able to enjoy living should do so to the best of our ingenuity and capabilities and to hell with all this cosmic metaphysical flapdoodle.

I notice that curiosityandthecat's signature is: "Life is but a momentary glimpse at the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." That sums it up very well, I think.

Quote from: "i_am_i"It's for certiain that a higher power will destroy the earth someday. That higher power is the sun, or maybe an asteroid, or maybe a full-blown nuclear war.

But those aren't beyond observation.  

Quote from: "Sophus"

Quote from: "i_am_i"It's for certiain that a higher power will destroy the earth someday. That higher power is the sun, or maybe an asteroid, or maybe a full-blown nuclear war.

But those aren't beyond observation.  

Well, you've got me there!

"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike"

If it isn't observable or empiricly testable then by deffinition it has zero effect on us. If it has no effect why call it god? Aside from mabye Deism but deism is really only an origin story. As in God made the universe....the end = Deism. Again such a being would not require or even care if we believed in it. So without evidence to the positve why believe?

What other sort of observation is there besides empirical?  We can conceptualize any infinite number of entities, but this does not mean that these entities exist beyond our capacity for abstract reasoning.

What exactly would be the distinction between something that is empirically unobservable and something that is nonexistent?