Happy Atheist Forum

I'm trying to avoid psychotherapy, as I don't believe I really need it and I have gotten through this many times before, but my birth coincidence (which you can read about on my previous topic viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4838 (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4838)) still haunts me, as I'm only looking at all the supernatural explanations. the scientific explanation... the clock battery ran out, which is consistent with reality, but why so close to my birth time? i still see it as a prediction. Who can help me look at this empirically?

I know this seems ABSOLUTELY crazy, and sometimes I do think i have OCD, but i need to know that there is NO possibility of any supernatural outside influence, that it just landed on that time and had no knowledge of my birth. I'm so sorry guys, it still appears I am a skeptic in training.

To answer your question requires a piece of information, how close to your birth time was the clock's time?

My parents aren't totally sure, but they remember that the clock in the labour ward was stuck the whole time at about 5 mins around 6:08pm, which is my birth time. Maybe 6:03, the clock read, something like that.

So we are talking +- 5 minutes then for it to be interestingly coincidental.

There are 1,440 minutes in a day so the odds of the times being coincidental are 10/1440 or 1/144. So on average 1 in 144 people have the same situation. So of the 7 billion people on Earth 49 million people could be in the same boat as you, just by coincidence.

Was there even really a coincidence?  The clock didn't stop on your time of birth, just a few minutes close to it, right?  Consider approaching your own story as if it came from someone else - would you be so willing to accept that someone else had some sort of supernatural experience because a clock in the emergency room had stopped around the time they were born?  As to why you can't get past it, that's something only you can really know.  Maybe you have regarded the situation as supernatural for so long it's hard to think about it any other way or maybe you're hyper focused on it for some other reason that actually has little to do with the clock/birth scenario.  Maybe your brain is wired for superstition, there seems to be some new information coming out that says we have religious centers in our brains.  There's a thread on the forum about it, I can find a link if you're interested/haven't read it yet.  If it's somehow an impediment to your daily life, I might seek some counseling.  Again, you're the only one who really knows what you need.  Regardless, I hope you feel better/find some clarity soon.

1 in 144? Woh, that makes it seem a lot less special and prediction-like, but does that calculation count the clock being stuck previously? And if its that common, why have i never heard anyone with the same story?

Quote from: "jimmorrisonbabe"1 in 144? Woh, that makes it seem a lot less special and prediction-like, but does that calculation count the clock being stuck previously? And if its that common, why have i never heard anyone with the same story?

If a clock sticks regularly it probably sticks for a perfectly valid reason?  Don't know. It would appear you're just an ultra pattern matcher, you're seeing things with a greater surety that other people do. We are all unique and if there were not people like you I would be extremely surprised. If there is a trait that runs through humans it's almost bound to be variable. There will be those who are poor pattern matchers and those that take it to the extreme. When you are compared to other people with average pattern recognition you are unusual. No big deal.

Okay, I feel like an idiot for asking, but what is this about? All I got from this is that someone was born at a certain time and a clock was broken. What's the problem?

Basically, when my mom was giving birth to me there was a clock which was stuck/had its battery ran out at about 6:03, sometime like that. when i was born the real time was 6:08pm, so it was almost like, even tho the clock wasnt spot on, it was 5 minutes away from appearing as if it predicted my birth time. ive never met anyone else whos had the same thing happen.

Quote from: "jimmorrisonbabe"Basically, when my mom was giving birth to me there was a clock which was stuck/had its battery ran out at about 6:03, sometime like that. when i was born the real time was 6:08pm, so it was almost like, even tho the clock wasnt spot on, it was 5 minutes away from appearing as if it predicted my birth time. ive never met anyone else whos had the same thing happen.

But what if you were born at 6:13. Would it have predicted your birth then too?

Quote from: "Tank"So we are talking +- 5 minutes then for it to be interestingly coincidental.

There are 1,440 minutes in a day so the odds of the times being coincidental are 10/1440 or 1/144. So on average 1 in 144 people have the same situation. So of the 7 billion people on Earth 49 million people could be in the same boat as you, just by coincidence.

Less interesting still...

It was probably an analog clock.  No AM/PM, so it's really 720 minutes.  With the +- 5 minutes, that puts the odds at:

1 in 72

Now, think about how many people are born in rooms with a broken clock (include the third world too).

We're nowhere near the Lottery Odds.

... as a side note, if you haven't read the "Birthday Problem" here's a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem)

In a group of at least 23 randomly chosen people, there is more than 50% probability that some pair of them will have the same birthday.  Don't believe it?  Read the article...

Quote from: "joeactor"

Quote from: "Tank"So we are talking +- 5 minutes then for it to be interestingly coincidental.

There are 1,440 minutes in a day so the odds of the times being coincidental are 10/1440 or 1/144. So on average 1 in 144 people have the same situation. So of the 7 billion people on Earth 49 million people could be in the same boat as you, just by coincidence.

Less interesting still...

It was probably an analog clock.  No AM/PM, so it's really 720 minutes.  With the +- 5 minutes, that puts the odds at:

1 in 72

Now, think about how many people are born in rooms with a broken clock (include the third world too).

We're nowhere near the Lottery Odds.

Yep!

But here's the problem I have.... although it may be more of a common occurence than i once thought, making this coincidence appear a lot less of a 'special' happening, it still doesn't mean to say the clock isn't 'predicting' a special child in some way. i have a problem rationalizing with what caused the clock to get stuck, although maybe the probability argument disproves any 'prediction' criteria as well.. maybe im just having more of a problem understanding it in my anxious state, like, what are the chances of actually being one of those babies? 1 in 72 yes, but because i'm subjectively one of those babies, it feels less likely.

All I can see from your story is that some clock broke and you were born sometime around the time of day displayed on the clock.

What does this mean?

Why is this important?

Quote from: "Davin"All I can see from your story is that some clock broke and you were born sometime around the time of day displayed on the clock.

What does this mean?

Why is this important?

Exactly my question.

Quote from: "jimmorrisonbabe"Basically, when my mom was giving birth to me there was a clock which was stuck/had its battery ran out at about 6:03, sometime like that. when i was born the real time was 6:08pm, so it was almost like, even tho the clock wasnt spot on, it was 5 minutes away from appearing as if it predicted my birth time. ive never met anyone else whos had the same thing happen.

This isn't even a coincidence.  Even if the clock had stopped on your birth time, it has already been explained what the probability of that happening is.  Not to sound unkind, but get over it.  It almost sounds like you want an excuse to believe in the supernatural, and if that's the case, maybe you ought to be asking Christians about this so-called coincidence.

My father tells the story of my having been born at the "exact moment" the end credits of the first episode of Star Trek. (He was watching TV in the waiting room.) He credits this with my love of science fiction.

My sister's cat gave birth  just as a lightning storm rumbled in. All the kittens have names like "Storm" and "Squall" because of it.

I had a neighbor who felt guilty (and may still, he moved) that the 9/11/2001 attacks happened on a day he chose to sleep in rather than watch the early morning news shows as was his usual habit.

My point: A coincidence is two events you notice at the same time. There are events galore happening around you all the time. You will regularly see coincidences. On occasion those coincidences will be weird or amusing.

But a single coincidence can only be that, two events you noticed at the same time. In itself it can't suggest anything, because of the fact that events are happening all the time, only a few directly related to one another in the big picture.

If your family had the habit of birthing children near dead clocks at the time on the clock face, going back a few generations, then you'd have something to look at. A pattern of correlation. Those sometimes actually have meaning, and even then no properly studies correlation has suggested anything other than good old physics.

So, returning to my first example. If my father had been watching, say, a soap opera, would I have developed a love for drama? Or, did I become a sci-fi nut because my father is one?  

I gotta agree with Jill...

Ok, so here's mine.  I was born during a snowstorm in Cleveland - at the end of April!  And at the wrong hospital!
(that's gotta be higher than 1 in 72 odds, yes?)

So, with perfect hindsight, I post-predict that I will dislike snow, and have a bad sense of direction.

Viola!  It's true!

Causation, Correlation, and Coincidence... 3 different beasts.


What it comes down to is: You're asking a "Why" question (Why did the stopped clock match my birth time?)... when there's no question to be asked (The stopped clock matched my birth time.)  Period.  End of story.

(My birth weight was also 714, so I'm naturally high),
JoeActor

Yeah, I'm wondering the same.  I don't understand how it's important.  My mother's tubes were tied before I was conceived, yet, I don't attach anything supernatural to it.

Quote from: "jimmorrisonbabe"I'm trying to avoid psychotherapy, as I don't believe I really need it and I have gotten through this many times before

But see, you haven't gotten through it, not yet, obviously not by a long shot. What's the problem with psychotherapy? Don't you want to be healthy and happy?

perhaps its a desire to be special? some "great" prediction was made before your birth.
So for a cure If I grant you specialdom will it cure your dilemma?

Why not just be happy that something cool happened or almost happened at your birth.

My cool birth story is I died at birth. I hear I was “dead” for 2 mins. I think that may be a bit dramatized but it’s the story im told by both of my parents.
So I am special to 

If you're looking for proof that it was not a supernatural thing, then you're only going to make yourself more anxious. The supernatural cannot be proved or disproved. You have to really just take a step back and see it for what it is, the clock stopped (which is a perfectly natural occurance and happens all the time during all sorts of moments. If something actually supernatural (a miracle) happened to the clock a few minutes before you were born, then there would be a stronger reason for you to suspect something more than coincidence, but since the clock did what clocks do all the time, there's really no reason to attach any supernatural meaning to it.

Quoteso it was almost like, even tho the clock wasnt spot on, it was 5 minutes away from appearing as if it predicted my birth time. ive never met anyone else whos had the same thing happen.

Key word: wasn't spot on. It did not predict your birth, it just happened to stop five minutes before you were born.

...So when exactly did the clock stop? When the water broke? When your head popped out..? Your cord was cut..? Or did it just stand still for the duration of the event?

My point is: close doesn't count.

2.0001 != 2 when dealing with the mathematical absolutes, which you pretty much have to do in order to dismiss coincidence, and even then such a dismissal would be purely circumstancial unless the event can be verified by repetition or some such.

An animate object runs out of animation to come close to predicting your birthday...

Ludicrous. Like a guy's watch stops when he's run over by a truck...predicting his death. What if the guy dies and the watch takes a licking and keeps on ticking?

So the battery ran out of juice. They can't go forever...*shrugs*...you just happened to be the lucky one. Either that or you can blame it on the Clock Gremlin.

Look, we've all refuted the clock 'coincidence' as evidence of anything supernatural or having any meaning, to the point it's now beat to death, but you still seem somehow attached to the idea. It seems to me the reason for that has less to do with the clock or probability or chance or coincidences than it has do do with you. So the question is, "What is it about JimMorrisonBabe that wants to see some significance to this occurance?" It sounds like an obsessive thought to me, like the agonizing ruminations some people experience with OCD; the mind simply can't let go of a particular thought for whatever reason, even if they know rationally that it makes no sense. I think JMB understands the concept, but has a glitch in the brain that nevertheless keeps repeating the same thought as if it were a legitimate problem. I used to have glitches like that. I knew someone who had it even worse and probably still does, even though he's generally a far better critical thinker than I am. The only advice I know of is to speak to a therapist to try to sort out why you're obsessed with this question. It doesn't mean you're crazy, you don't have to check into a psychiatric hospital (please, ffs don't), and talking it out might do you some good. I realise you're trying to avoid it, but even if you have gotten through it in the past, you seem to keep going back to it, so there's something lacking in your approach into which a professional might have better insight.

If you look at the situation critically we have much to be skeptical about.

First, human memory of specific events years prior.  I'm not saying your mother is lying - not at all.  I am saying that human memory is notoriously malleable the further it gets from specific events that happened in the past.

Second, assuming the memory is completely accurate we have to ask - how long was this clock broken? Minutes, days, months, years?  And then, how many births have taken place in that room?  Maybe just a incident of law of averages?  Sell enough lottery tickets and someone will win - the winner is usually awed that they won against the "staggering odds".

Third, would such an event even constitute something supernatural?  A clock had stopped close to your birth time - but were you born in the A.M. or P.M.?  Does it count if it stopped in the A.M. if you were born in the P.M. and vice versa?  What if it was a 24 hour clock and it read  ~ 18:00 rather than ~ 6:00, does that still count?  What if you were born at 0600 and it read 1800?

Bottom line is that there are many factors to consider and we as pattern seeking organisms tend to eschew many factors and focus primarily on just the ones where we see things sync up.  If we paid enough attention through out our day we'd probably see more coincidences in our everyday lives - but we aren't usually actively seeking these out and when something such as this occurs during some significant event - we naturally consider that coincidence significant as well.

Quote from: "elliebean"It seems to me the reason for that has less to do with the clock or probability or chance or coincidences than it has do do with you.

Agreed...

Hey guys, it's been a while and I have been quite a lot better in general recently. Although I'm still having blips like where I'll have a few off days, it's been a good few weeks since I've had a real episode with my anxieties on this issue. Each time I have those phases, I feel stronger too. Sometimes when it gets bad i still consider therapy, but i think with time and learning about science and dealing with it rationally i'm learning to get out of it completely.

Yes i think Ellie could be very right about her post on me having a slight OCD glitch, and i'd like to thank her for pointing that out, as it has helped, and although I am starting to accept the idea there couldn't have been any 'higher power' to influence the clock more and more, i'm still struggling to accept that the battery was just stopped.

It's like when I look at it from a certain perspective - there is NO scientific evidence to suggest anything else was responsible for the clock, then I start to feel better. However, when I take the situation head-on and try to analyze the probability and see it as just a stopped/broken clock, there's still a bit of a problem there. Could be the glitches, ey? My imagination does kinda run away with it. But at the end of the day, even if i don't seek therapy, what normally gets me out of this is taking a look at it scientifically. Can anybody help me finally rationalize and see that it was DEFINITELY just the battery and nothing else?

Another thing.... Richard Dawkins has also helped a lot. As he tends to debunk EVERYTHING supernatural in the slightest, seeing things from his point of view has worked for me recently. Also, I'm thinking of purchasing 'Unweaving The Rainbow' soon, which has a section which deals with coincidences.

Good to see you jimmorrisonbabe. I'm glad you're doing better.

Quote from: "jimmorrisonbabe"Can anybody help me finally rationalize and see that it was DEFINITELY just the battery and nothing else?

The only thing I can say here is that; what makes more sense? Some sort of supernational force stopping the clock or that the battery just run out?

The battery running out

But then I start to think as well - if there was a supernatural force, you couldn't necessarily observe it could you? But yes, it does make a lot more sense the battery just running out. It's just how to focus on that as an explanation that i find confusing XD

Quote from: "jimmorrisonbabe"The battery running out

But then I start to think as well - if there was a supernatural force, you couldn't necessarily observe it could you? But yes, it does make a lot more sense the battery just running out. It's just how to focus on that as an explanation that i find confusing XD

How is the battery in a clock running out, which is something that does happen quite often in many devices, harder to explain than some supernatural force focusing on making this clock stop at specific point in time?  If you wish to apply Occam's razor, it is much more parsimonious to go with the battery explanation than needing to rationalize how some invisible, undetectable supernatural force.

What exactly do you find hard "to focus on" about the battery running out?  Batteries run out in devices all the time, it's a common occurrence.  Unless someone changes the battery, that clock will just sit there with the same time on it.

Also, I would be inclined to agree with the earlier mention of possible OCD as this focusing on this event and the need to explain it in such detail does seem to fall into the behavior exhibited by that disorder.

It's because it was close to my birth time that I find it hard not to attribute a supernatural meaning behind it. I mean imagine if it stopped DEAD ON when i was born, wouldn't that be considered somewhat supernatural? Or could it still be explained scientifically?

I see this as having gone beyond whatever a clock did when you were born and being more about your fixation on this. Now I don't know anything about OCD but I get the impression that this is troubling you way beyond all proportion. The very fact that you continue to post about this shows that.

You're absolutely right where you say in the title of this thread that you need help, and help is available, you know. You need help getting out from under this, I can see that. And it's okay, it's perfectly okay. If you had a chronic severe pain in your chest you'd go to a doctor, wouldn't you?

You said earlier that you are trying to avoid psychotherapy, as you don't believe you really need it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with therapy and I think it would do you a world of good. Just talking about something with a therapist can often be the first step to letting go, getting clear of what it is that's bothering you, and this is really, really bothering you.

Make an appointment with a psychiatrist, tell him everything you've told us here and let him take it from there. Just taking that first step will make you feel a lot better, trust me.

Quote from: "i_am_i"I see this as having gone beyond whatever a clock did when you were born and being more about your fixation on this. Now I don't know anything about OCD but I get the impression that this is troubling you way beyond all proportion. The very fact that you continue to post about this shows that.

You're absolutely right where you say in the title of this thread that you need help, and help is available, you know. You need help getting out from under this, I can see that. And it's okay, it's perfectly okay. If you had a chronic severe pain in your chest you'd go to a doctor, wouldn't you?

You said earlier that you are trying to avoid psychotherapy, as you don't believe you really need it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with therapy and I think it would do you a world of good. Just talking about something with a therapist can often be the first step to letting go, getting clear of what it is that's bothering you, and this is really, really bothering you.

Make an appointment with a psychiatrist, tell him everything you've told us here and let him take it from there. Just taking that first step will make you feel a lot better, trust me.

Therapy doesn't always work though. At least it didn't on me, but then again I went (was forced) to therapy for a different reason.

Quote from: "jimmorrisonbabe"It's because it was close to my birth time that I find it hard not to attribute a supernatural meaning behind it. I mean imagine if it stopped DEAD ON when i was born, wouldn't that be considered somewhat supernatural? Or could it still be explained scientifically?

The thing is that there is no reason to believe it was of some supernatural event.  You can also look at it this way, as I said before - you have this information second hand, years after the fact.  Next, it is just a clock that is not working - I have a clock that is stuck on 12 - it's right twice a day.  The longer that clock is stuck on that time, the more likely that a perceived significant event will occur at that time (much of this I explained in an earlier post).  Next, let's assume it was supernatural - one of the many traits attributed to the supernatural is the idea of purpose.  What is the purpose of stopping a clock not ON the time of your birth but only close?  Wouldn't something supernatural be a bit more accurate? And stopping a clock?  Hell, I can do that just by unplugging it or taking out the battery, were I present I could have stopped the clock close to your birth time myself - nothing supernatural about me.  So, if I could perform the same action what makes that event so "supernatural"?  It's just a stopped clock.

Let me ask you, does the event being associated with something supernatural make you feel better in some way such as reducing anxiety or provide some sort of comfort?  I'm just curious as why such adamant fixation on the broken clock.

Let me give you an example from my own life.  A long while back a group of friends and I were playing the drinking game quarters where you attempt to bounce a quarter into a glass to make the other person drink.  I bounced one of the quarters and it jingled around in the glass eventually resting to everyone's awe on it's side - very slim odds of that happening and I'm the one who tossed it - supernatural intervention into my life?  No, just a quarter than ended up on its end.

Also I agree wholeheartedly with I am I that this fixation you have on this fairly innocuous event may be more telling of something more that only a mental health professional can determine with certainty.

The persistence you address this topic with seems to be resistant to any natural explanation almost to the point as if you want or need to think it was supernatural despite there being no reason to think that.  Please believe me that I'm saying all this with honest concern and in no way trying to be the hardass.  I genuinely think that sitting down and talking with a mental health professional may help, if possible, I'd recommend talking to an LPC (Licensed Professional Counsleor) - they are licensed therapists with masters level or higher academic training.

As it has been pointed out, if no one changes the battery, it will eventually run itself out. Since the clock is located in a maternity ward, eventually someone will be born at that time, give or take a few minutes. It's an inevitability. Not even an oddity or an improbability. It might seem mildly poignant, if you look at it from a certain point of view, but that point of view has no meaning. It's just a way to feel about unconnected events when one of them happens to be important to you. It wasn't even symbolic. It's just a mostly unremarkable inevitability, like someone tripping, eventually, if something is left on the floor.  

Quote from: "Cecilie"Therapy doesn't always work though. At least it didn't on me, but then again I went (was forced) to therapy for a different reason.

I can see how being forced into therapy wouldn't have a positive effect.

I went into therapy at the recomendation of my psychiatrist, but I was the one who make the choice to seek psychiatric help in the first place. Just doing something about how I was feeling made me start feeling better, more hopeful and positive.

For me therapy, combined with medication, worked very well, better than I ever hoped it would. Just talking about how I was feeling and what I was going through served to lessen the burden I'd been carrying around for most of my life, and it taught me how to step up and face my problems for what they are. It was, in a word, liberating.

Quote from: "i_am_i"

Quote from: "Cecilie"Therapy doesn't always work though. At least it didn't on me, but then again I went (was forced) to therapy for a different reason.

I can see how being forced into therapy wouldn't have a positive effect.

I went into therapy at the recomendation of my psychiatrist, but I was the one who make the choice to seek psychiatric help in the first place. Just doing something about how I was feeling made me start feeling better, more hopeful and positive.

For me therapy, combined with medication, worked very well, better than I ever hoped it would. Just talking about how I was feeling and what I was going through served to lessen the burden I'd been carrying around for most of my life, and it taught me how to step up and face my problems for what they are. It was, in a word, liberating.

I see what you mean. The first therapist I had was awful. She was a student with no experience, and that didn't exactly make me want to get more therapy even if it was with someone else. I'm the kind of person who doesn't share my feelings. I never do, and I guess that's a bad thing. I have never tried medication though. I've always feared getting addicted.

Quote from: "Cecilie"

Quote from: "i_am_i"

Quote from: "Cecilie"Therapy doesn't always work though. At least it didn't on me, but then again I went (was forced) to therapy for a different reason.

I can see how being forced into therapy wouldn't have a positive effect.

I went into therapy at the recomendation of my psychiatrist, but I was the one who make the choice to seek psychiatric help in the first place. Just doing something about how I was feeling made me start feeling better, more hopeful and positive.

For me therapy, combined with medication, worked very well, better than I ever hoped it would. Just talking about how I was feeling and what I was going through served to lessen the burden I'd been carrying around for most of my life, and it taught me how to step up and face my problems for what they are. It was, in a word, liberating.

I see what you mean. The first therapist I had was awful. She was a student with no experience, and that didn't exactly make me want to get more therapy even if it was with someone else. I'm the kind of person who doesn't share my feelings. I never do, and I guess that's a bad thing. I have never tried medication though. I've always feared getting addicted.

Addicted, well, yeah, I suppose you could call it that. I'll probably be taking my pills for the rest of my life, probably. But then my case is rather extreme, I suppose. And don't get me wrong, I love my pills! They work!

It does no good to anyone to cast therapy and medication in a bad light. SSRI medication and talking therapy has vastly improved my life. No one should be made to feel afraid of seeking that kind of help because, for many people, it's a life saver.

Quote from: "i_am_i"Addicted, well, yeah, I suppose you could call it that. I'll probably be taking my pills for the rest of my life, probably. But then my case is rather extreme, I suppose. And don't get me wrong, I love my pills! They work!

It does no good to anyone to cast therapy and medication in a bad light. SSRI medication and talking therapy has vastly improved my life. No one should be made to feel afraid of seeking that kind of help because, for many people, it's a life saver.

I agree. If you are really depressed, medication may be the solution. 'Cause nothing is worse than being truly unhappy. And I know from personal experience.

To put this in perspective, the Time to which you refer to is only a human concept to measure the passing of time by giving it a timed tick & tock.. Time is the inertia of forward progression, or oscillation. Energy itself. Nothing predicted your birth because an infinite number of events in the sum total infinite vastness of existence that would be far more extraordinary could have likely occurred at the very exact moment of your Birth..  Such as the Birth of a Star, a Black Hole to begin ripping apart a solar system, Or the birth of a Dolphin.. I know people want to think that somehow they are supernaturally special, and that existence is magically here just for them. However, what makes us special is that it's not. To quote myself "To be unique is not to come from the whom of fabrication, but rather from the emerging order of chaos". We are all beautiful unique butterflies to which effect the existing world and order around us. We are equally the stuff that makes a star shine as we are the stuff that thrives on it's energy to survive. We are in a dance of synchrony, like that of a symphony of oscillating energy. Hence, we are all natural material physical phenomenon, unique as chaotic systems to which give us our own Identities, personalities, and individual uniqueness. :bananacolor:

BTW, we are all irrational :) Relax, you are perfectly normal, and if you feel more comfortable embracing supernatural elements into who you are, don't feel like this will make you any less of a person.. The Razor's Edge is a prime example of why we can't define rationality 100% into any state of existence

Your posts have all helped so much, seriously. I know i AM still posting about it, and btw, i_am_i, i am (lol, notice the pattern there XD) taking therapy/seeing the doctor into serious consideration now. Although I do have long periods where i am rational, i always seem to float back to irrationality somehow, and i want to terminate that altogether. One day I know I will just see it as nothing more than a natural event, and i will laugh at it again just like when my parents used to tell me about it - and maybe seeing someone professional will make that more possible rather than me trying to tackle it myself

In terms of how other posters have helped, i think elliebean is right in pointing out that it is an INEVITABILITY that it will happen to someone, it's just partly getting my head round that, but i swear i'm starting to get there! Also with Squid, you're right in pointing out the supernaturality fail here.

...But as i_am_i said, i may just need that extra push with professional help, as i do think i've had an obsession with this for a while, and i probably wouldn't have such an obsession if there wasn't an underlying stress/cognitive/OCD problem somewhere.

Btw, I'm actually surprised at how many of you have saught help yourselves... do you mind me asking why or is that personal?

Quote from: "jimmorrisonbabe"Btw, I'm actually surprised at how many of you have saught help yourselves... do you mind me asking why or is that personal?

I imagine this is the type of thing that most would prefer not to disclose on a public forum, but I don't mind.  I'll jump in and pipe up.  

I should probably disclose that I was raised by therapists, who were, despite what you might suppose, excellent parents.  So I may be biased.

However, like you, I suffered from a kind of hyper-active pattern recognition, and attributed significance to accidentally coincident phenomena all the time.  I am convinced it contributed to my religious obsession when I was younger.  There is documentation in the literature on OCD regarding obsessions with religious thought and superstitious thinking.  So I second the advice that you seek help, if this is interfering in your quality of life.

A broken clock is bound to be right twice a day.

A broken clock in a maternity ward has a fair chance of "predicting" a birth-time, as Tank and Joe have pointed out, particularly if it is an urban hospital; but the real issue is how you are approaching the matter.

Ok, for fun I will provide an example of my own Birth.. I was born on the same day and to which the Fiske Planetarium was dedicated on.. It opened it's doors the next day to the public at 10am with it's amazing laser shows to which are fixed to the classics of Pink Floyd .. How FN awesome is that?

http://fiske.colorado.edu/history.php (http://fiske.colorado.edu/history.php)

QuoteFiske Planetarium was dedicated on September 19, 1975, and opened its doors to the public the next day with "Stardeath", an original show about supernovae written by Verschuur, and "Quaking Aspens", a visual program by CU Fine Arts Faculty Gary Metz.

Quote from: "The Black Jester"

Quote from: "jimmorrisonbabe"Btw, I'm actually surprised at how many of you have saught help yourselves... do you mind me asking why or is that personal?

I imagine this is the type of thing that most would prefer not to disclose on a public forum, but I don't mind.  I'll jump in and pipe up.  

I should probably disclose that I was raised by therapists, who were, despite what you might suppose, excellent parents.  So I may be biased.

However, like you, I suffered from a kind of hyper-active pattern recognition, and attributed significance to accidentally coincident phenomena all the time.  I am convinced it contributed to my religious obsession when I was younger.  There is documentation in the literature on OCD regarding obsessions with religious thought and superstitious thinking.  So I second the advice that you seek help, if this is interfering in your quality of life.

That's interesting to know, Black Jester :).. How FN awesome is that? [/quote]

That is AWESOME Jackel! I lovelovelove Pink Floyd! And astronomy!  :hail: