Happy Atheist Forum

aslam alikom orhmt allah wabrkath (Peace, mercy and blessings of God)
       
I am a Muslim Arab
I want to put my point of view
I think that atheism fell long ago
Embrace of atheism often commit suicide does not live long
Atheism has no morals morality derives from religion
Atheism, terrorism is trying to suppress religion and his followers killed without pity or mercy

Quote from: "moslim"aslam alikom orhmt allah wabrkath (Peace, mercy and blessings of God)
       
I am a Muslim Arab
I want to put my point of view

Hello!

Quote from: "moslim"I think that atheism fell long ago

Meaningless. Atheism is a state of disbelief, not a monolithic system of beliefs. There's nothing to "fall".

Quote from: "moslim"Embrace of atheism often commit suicide does not live long

You've been lied to. The evidence suggests Atheists live to the same average age as believers.

Quote from: "moslim"Atheism has no morals morality derives from religion

You've been lied to again. Morality derives from the zeitgeist and is mutable despite religious texts, as can be seen by anyone who studies history.

Quote from: "moslim"Atheism, terrorism is trying to suppress religion and his followers killed without pity or mercy

Not sure what this means. So far, terrorists all seem to be believers of some stripe. Religion gets quite a free ride from even being criticized, never mind oppressed (Unless a majority religion is oppressing a minority religion.).

Do not believe Why do you put more???
I did not understand how it is not a belief?? Know me or possible beliefs, in your opinion??
Can you please explain to me more

Journal of Psychiatry man for
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... com.sa&usg (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=ar&langpair=en%7Car&u=http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/161/12/2303&rurl=translate.google.com.sa&usg) = ALkJrhjevPCoUKSaIZZ_v7hFhcPYk2iMvg
l

Please give me a guide that atheists live in the same average age of believers



Aoki, who came from the moral starting??
, Which calls for ethics is religion
And give me evidence of history


I mean see what I did in the world of communism and the Hitler Muslim Turkistan and China
We Muslims the world over judging in a time of times and lived
Religions, Christianity and Buddhism in India at peace with us
Even atheism is now live in peace with us did not kill Lara religious atheist Muslim countries

Thank you for your respect through dialogue

QuoteAtheism, terrorism

damn atheists, flying their planes into buildings...
and suicide bombing over mathematics...
and killing others in the name o gravity
stupid atheists...

Most of the atheists that I know in real life spend copious amounts of time playing video games.
I do not play video games at all.
Whoooa, mind blown  :crazy:

None of the atheists that I personally know have ever acted with the intent to harm anyone else (as far as I know).
Neither have I.
Whooooooaoooaaa, dude.....

easy there H.R! You're gonna make my brain explode!

I know I ride my plane into buildings, killing innocent people all the time.  I also enjoy eating aborted babies, having premarital sex, and working on holy days.

No rest for the wicked, you know how it goes.  

My brothers did not respond to my questions??
My brothers did not respond to my questions??
Did not respond to any point of the topic
I did not understand what you mean aircraft, buildings, and eat children and have sex before marriage


Whoever comes to me with evidence of his
Thanks

Quote from: "moslim"My brothers did not respond to my questions??
My brothers did not respond to my questions??
Did not respond to any point of the topic
I did not understand what you mean aircraft, buildings, and eat children and have sex before marriage


Whoever comes to me with evidence of his
Thanks

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.randomfunnypicture.com%2Fpictures%2F1871lol_wut.jpg&hash=99184425949d748a5f6eb1ef0523b389574296cf)

Quote from: "moslim"aslam alikom orhmt allah wabrkath (Peace, mercy and blessings of God)
       
I am a Muslim Arab
I want to put my point of view
I think that atheism fell long ago
Embrace of atheism often commit suicide does not live long
Atheism has no morals morality derives from religion
Atheism, terrorism is trying to suppress religion and his followers killed without pity or mercy

Hello Moslim.

-Maybe you are a Muslim Arab, I will have to take your word on that.
-And yes you have every right to your "point of view".
-Atheism is not fallen from anything, like say, a belief system such as yours could.
-You have no evidence for that claim (like many others!)    
-Morality does not come from religion and never has. What you get is a warped interpretation of it. And this is also a grave misunderstanding as Atheism, as it has NOTHING to do with morals. Please do more research into what the term "Atheism" actually means.
-Looks more like religion encourages terrorism.

Either you're being obtuse, or you just don't understand because of language issues, but it is very ironic to accuse atheists of terrorism when your own religion is known for extremists that commit acts of terrorism or threaten to on the basis of Islamic religious doctrine.  The Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition were conducted not by atheist,s but Christians who tortured and killed in the name of God.  Muslim extremists were behind 9/11, not atheists.  Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden are not atheists, either.  Saddam Hussein was responsible for the murder and torture of innocent people, some of them women and children.  The so-called morals of his religion didn't stop him from committing acts of atrocity that even people without religion find to be horrific, but rather endorsed some of those acts of torture.  Claiming that atheists have no morality because morality comes from religion is a baseless accusation.  Your own faith is full of people who are morally bankrupt in spite of whatever positive values the Qu'ran might advocate.  There are bad apples in every bunch, religious or not.  You can't lump them all together.

Some of the best people I know are Muslim.  I would not lump them in with the people who commit acts of terrorism just because they share common religious beliefs the way you so callously assume all atheists are absent of morals.

Quote from: "moslim"My brothers did not respond to my questions??
My brothers did not respond to my questions??

That's a shame. How many brothers do you have?

Welcome moslim

I don't think you have met any atheists have you? I am a 50yo father of 3 grown children, I have been married and faithful to my wife for 30 years. I do not need a myth (God) to tell me how to behave. I have never killed anybody in the name of a myth (God), I have never killed anybody, by accident or design. I have never raped or beaten a woman (although I have spanked a few (but only when they asked)). I don't waste my time talking to myself (preying). I don't hate anybody because a myth (God) tells me to, I hate people who kill in the name of a myth, I hate people who rape in the name of a myth, I hate Islam, but I don't hate Muslims unless they give me good reason to do so.

You know little and have been lied to a lot. Thank you for coming here and seeing the other side for yourself. But please, please don't tell us what we are. Ask us what we do and why we do it and you will learn a lot here.

Dretlin  Where From  morals??

http://www.iasp.info/pdf/papers/Bertolote.pdf (http://www.iasp.info/pdf/papers/Bertolote.pdf)
Put another link in my earlier intervention

philosoraptor they did not follow the teachings of Islam
But Hitler and communism destroyed the world the teachings of atheism
This difference

Tank, Why do not you do??
Nothing prevents you

Why not do these things,

So if you can identify bin Laden and Hussein as people who did not follow their faith, why can you not acknowledge that there moral atheists just as there are immoral practitioners of religion?

Atheist only be considered on the ethics of interest

There are no teachings for Atheism.  No guide book, no manual, no bible, no oral tradition.  Because it's NOT a religion.

There are fanatics in every race, religion, country, gender.  Doesn't matter what race, religion, country, gender you point to, you are going to find one.

And by the way...... Hitler is not a good example of anything other that how deranged a person can be, he changed religious ties throughout his reign to suit his needs, wants and to 'prove' he was doing what was right for 'racial purity'.  He was an extreme fanatic.  Atheism has nothing to do with that.

Quote from: "moslim"Dretlin  Where From  morals??

http://www.iasp.info/pdf/papers/Bertolote.pdf (http://www.iasp.info/pdf/papers/Bertolote.pdf)
Put another link in my earlier intervention

As your own link points out, having hammered into you, from a young age, that nothing but damnation awaits suicide is quite a deterrent. In that type of culture, suicide would be a taboo problem -compared to other moral choices? (http://www.ihatethemedia.com/128-gays-sentenced-to-death-in-iraq) I am sorry, you believe you have the moral high ground?

Welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately you have been lied to by the people who brought you up, as they themselves were lied to by their parents and those before them and so on and so on. I was going to try to explain the reasons why the things you think about atheists are incorrect but instead, i'd like to point you to the text on the front page of this forum. It provides a nice concise explanation of what atheism entails.

Just because we don't follow a holy doctrine with which to live our lives, doesn't mean we are bad people in the slightest. If that were the case, Sweden and Iceland would see perpetual civil war.

In fact, take Nordic countries as a case study. They happen to be the most atheist countries in the world (by percentage population) and yet consistently come top of the human development index. Ie, they have the most stable systems of governance, commerce and human development in the world. This isn't necessarily because they are predominantly atheist but you have to admit, if athesist are as lawless and morally corrupt as you'd believe, then it stands to reason those countries would be in dissaray, yes?

If you take the time to read many of the posts here (hopefully you will), i believe your mind will be swayed to a more positive stance towards us nafarious atheists

Book the Bible you have philosophers

Hitler Doing this from the teachings of Darwinism

Dretlin:  Does Islam embodied in them??

Quote from: "moslim"Dretlin:  Does Islam embodied in them??

You tell me.

And Hitler was Catholic.

Quote from: "moslim"Dretlin  Where From  morals??

http://www.iasp.info/pdf/papers/Bertolote.pdf (http://www.iasp.info/pdf/papers/Bertolote.pdf)
Put another link in my earlier intervention

The pdf you posted by the way is cool, unfortunately the definition of atheist is wrong ... check the references section on page 3 ... the definition of atheist is and i quote "... Suicide rates in China 1995-99 Lancet ..." China has a very unique demographic, and religious perspective, i can hardly call the atheist in the normal way.

Quote from: "_7654_"

Quote from: "moslim"Dretlin  Where From  morals??

http://www.iasp.info/pdf/papers/Bertolote.pdf (http://www.iasp.info/pdf/papers/Bertolote.pdf)
Put another link in my earlier intervention

The pdf you posted by the way is cool, unfortunately the definition of atheist is wrong ... check the references section on page 3 ... the definition of atheist is and i quote "... Suicide rates in China 1995-99 Lancet ..." China has a very unique demographic, and religious perspective, i can hardly call the atheist in the normal way.

Taoism? If I am mistaken?  

Quote from: "moslim"Tank, Why do not you do??
Nothing prevents you

Why not do these things,

What?

Nothing's preventing you, either.

There are always consequences, but nothing's stopping you.

Quote from: "Dretlin"

Quote from: "moslim"Dretlin:  Does Islam embodied in them??

You tell me.

And Hitler was Catholic.

Among other things.

Hitler was racist.  Not atheist.  There is a HUGE difference there.  And yes he pulled from the concept of social darwinism (which is NOT atheism by the way, see link below).... well if you research/read a little deeper that was just another way he tried to prove racism was the way to go, it was more eugenics that anything else.
Do some research.  As in real research, not what you have been told by your family/peers, try reading these:
Hitler:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler)
Atheism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism)
http://www.atheists.org/ (http://www.atheists.org/)
Social Darwinism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism)

Quote from: "Dretlin"

Quote from: "_7654_"

Quote from: "moslim"Dretlin  Where From  morals??

http://www.iasp.info/pdf/papers/Bertolote.pdf (http://www.iasp.info/pdf/papers/Bertolote.pdf)
Put another link in my earlier intervention

The pdf you posted by the way is cool, unfortunately the definition of atheist is wrong ... check the references section on page 3 ... the definition of atheist is and i quote "... Suicide rates in China 1995-99 Lancet ..." China has a very unique demographic, and religious perspective, i can hardly call the atheist in the normal way.

Taoism? If I am mistaken?  

It's a mixed society, Taoism is only one belief system, there is also Confusion ism , and Buddhism ... all are non central deity supporting belief systems that otherwise do qualify as a religion. Calling them atheist is also wrong, since these are belief systems, be them without a deity...

Quote from: "moslim"aslam alikom orhmt allah wabrkath (Peace, mercy and blessings of God)
       
I am a Muslim Arab
I want to put my point of view
I think that atheism fell long ago
Embrace of atheism often commit suicide does not live long
Atheism has no morals morality derives from religion
Atheism, terrorism is trying to suppress religion and his followers killed without pity or mercy

well, congratulations :)

Atheists do not commit suicide any more or less than any other social groups, and i have provided more arguments later in the forum about you later posting regarding the statistics of this subject.

The question of Atheism and morality has been debated a lot lately, and there are very good arguments why an Atheist would be a moral person, one of these arguments, is that morality is merely co opted by religion , taken from the age old good and beneficial natural behavior of human beings , here is a good quote:  â€œThe greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion.” -- Arthur C. Clarke  

As for regarding your statement associating atheism with terrorism, i am yet to find an atheist blowing himself up, or flying an airplane into a building, so i really cant base your statement on any grounds belonging to reality.

As for your greeting, i accept it, but will notice, that a god that does not exist can not extend blessings or offer mercy, so a simple peace be upon you might would have sufficed

Quote from: "moslim"philosoraptor they did not follow the teachings of Islam
But Hitler and communism destroyed the world the teachings of atheism
This difference

I am sure that you are not old enough to have lived under a communist regime, or you are old enough, but did not live under a communist regime. And in both cases, you base your judgment upon what the "other" side have tried to pass as information to you. Always check both sides, before you pass judgment.

Ahh, Hitler... Hitler was a Catholic, just like the Pope :-)
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/quotes_hitler.html (http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/quotes_hitler.html)

Quote from: "_7654_"

Quote from: "moslim"philosoraptor they did not follow the teachings of Islam
But Hitler and communism destroyed the world the teachings of atheism
This difference

I am sure that you are not old enough to have lived under a communist regime, or you are old enough, but did not live under a communist regime.

I'm not sure how you could have come to this conclusion based on the limited information moslim has provided.  I don't agree with the things he/she has to say, but your assertion is just as groundless as the one's being made about atheists.

Quote from: "philosoraptor"

QuoteI am sure that you are not old enough to have lived under a communist regime, or you are old enough, but did not live under a communist regime.

I'm not sure how you could have come to this conclusion based on the limited information moslim has provided. I don't agree with the things he/she has to say, but your assertion is just as groundless as the one's being made about atheists.

I dissagree.  If someone is stating that the motivation of certain acts commited by communist or fascist regimes is atheism, then it is perfectly reasonable to assume that they have not lived under any active communist regime.

Atheism isn't a motivation for anything.  It is neutral.

Quote from: "philosoraptor"

Quote from: "_7654_"

Quote from: "moslim"philosoraptor they did not follow the teachings of Islam
But Hitler and communism destroyed the world the teachings of atheism
This difference

I am sure that you are not old enough to have lived under a communist regime, or you are old enough, but did not live under a communist regime.

I'm not sure how you could have come to this conclusion based on the limited information moslim has provided.  I don't agree with the things he/she has to say, but your assertion is just as groundless as the one's being made about atheists.

----

A communist regime would be a secular one, i understand that, but in nearly all cases, where there was a socialist or communist regime, religion fully survived, and was either utilized to exert control over the population, de fanged if it did have too much influence, or merely left alone. Look at Poland, a traditionally very religious country, still is, even the last pope was fron there, and yet it was quite the communist country... And i did not need moslim to provide me with any information. I have first hand personal experience

Quote from: "Heretical Rants"Atheism isn't a motivation for anything. It is neutral.

Except for riots.  We worship No One.  Insult Nobody, and we will get mad.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi213.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc95%2FFlyingdutchman07%2Fatheists.jpg&hash=3659909d391785b5a66d7235ce108eeb63f844b8)

"There are no gods, therefore you must die!!!"
--A top clergyman of the atheist church

Quote from: "moslim"Atheist only be considered on the ethics of interest

Well in that case, Mo' Slim, first you're going to have to explain what you mean by the "ethics of interest."

I know, I know, your English is lousy, I mean let's face it, your English is terrible. This means, to me anyway, that you're coming in here half-cocked as we say. Another way of putting it is that you don't have your shit together. And I know you don't understand anything I just said.

Sell crazy somewhere else. You might start with those brothers you mentioned earlier.

Jeez, what a mess.

Atheism means a disbelief in god or gods. It does not come with a set of ideologies or beliefs or even principles. It's only a disbelief in god or gods, the same way you, moslem, disbelieve in the existence of Zeus. You are an atheist when it comes to Zeus, and we are atheists when it comes to Allah, and all other gods. We just go one god further than you.

There's no evidence I can find anywhere suggesting that atheists have anything but a normal suicide rate. As an atheist, though, I don't feel restricted by religious dogma when it comes to suicide. Suicide, from my perspective, is not a sin. It can be very sad, of course, but ultimately a person's life is their own to do with as they so choose. I believe in personal liberty, though that philosophy is my own and doesn't necessarily share a causal link with my atheism.

Morality does not come from religion. I am irreligious, and I am moral, therefore morality does not come from religion. The source of morality is an interesting story. Are you familiar with the behavioral development of pre-humans? Paleontology, anthropology, evolutionary behaviorism and sociology? To make a very long story short, human beings and our ancestors have been a social species for millions of years. For millions of years, our ancestors needed to cooperate in order to survive. Those more capable of cooperating were more likely to survive than those unable to cooperate, which means their behavioral trans were passed along in the society and their genetics were passed on to the next generation. Morality is the rules by which humans can efficiently interact. Do not hurt other people without cause, do not steal, do not lie, consider what effect your words and actions will have on others, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.... think about those moral standards. All of them contribute to better societal cooperation, and thus survival.

I am unaware of any recent instances of terrorism carried out by atheists, but even if there were it would be difficult to demonstrate a causal link between the individual's atheism and their act of terrorism. Would you, moslem, blame Islam for 9/11? I wouldn't, at least not directly. While the men that hijacked the planes were all of the Muslim faith, and all of them were promised paradise for their hateful sacrifice, the truth is that their motivations were more complex than their faith. There were serious political powers at work, there were monetary concerns, there were also concerns with the history of the US exploiting the Middle East. When you combine these with a particular way of teaching Islam, you get insane men willing to do horrible things because they feel justified. Still, you cannot say they weren't Muslim. They were. They believe most of the same things all Muslims believe. To deny that is to lie about your own beliefs.

Quote from: 'moslem'Atheist only be considered on the ethics of interest[/UOTE]
I've never seen it put quite that way, but I think I understand what you're suggesting. My response would be this: it's not as simple as you're making it out to be. Altruism, pure altruism, doesn't really exist. Regardless of what you do, there will always be some positive outcome to doing something selfless, even if it's just a sense of having done something good. Real life altruism is a bit different. The other day, I was in line at the market and I was buying several weeks worth of food. The person in line behind me had only one thing they were buying, so I offered to let that person go first. This is an act of real altruism. I recognized that, if the roles were reversed, I would certainly appreciate it if the person in front of me let me go ahead because I would be quicker. Recognizing that, I followed the golden rule. Why did I do it? Because society is a little better because of it. That's ultimately a bit selfish, though, because I'm hoping my society will be better to me. See?

No, Hitler was not using the ideas of Darwinism. Darwinism is natural selection, or selection which happens in nature without any interference. What Hitler was doing was the exact opposite: artificial selection, or selection which happens without nature and only by the hand of man. What Hitler did was the exact opposite of Darwinism.

I hope you can understand this.

Quote from: "moslim"Dretlin  Where From  morals??

http://www.iasp.info/pdf/papers/Bertolote.pdf (http://www.iasp.info/pdf/papers/Bertolote.pdf)
Put another link in my earlier intervention

The link you posted is very interesting.

karadan I do not agree with you the definitions of atheist


Dretlin Did Hitler go to church and preach the Christian religion

Give me the directory of the words and actions he is a Christian

Look here everyone
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/con ... 61/12/2303 (http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/161/12/2303)


Heretical Rants you afraid of the consequences only
Without consequences will kill me and Tsergni

KDbeads I have seen links
Search for a book of Daroyen to Hitler
Talk about the relationship between them in detail

_7654_ _7654_ Atheism was based on the theories fell and fell with

Give me evidence that God does not exist

Quote from: "moslim"karadan I do not agree with you the definitions of atheist

Dretlin you had to go to church you have been helped by Jesus when he fights another town

Proved to me that God does not exist

Agree or disagreeing with the definition does nothing to change it.

I need to help Jesus fight against the town next to me?

And prove to me it does - or the sugar palm fairy, prove that does not exist.

Dretlin I mean Hitler

So, Moslim, you are saying that before you became a Muslim you were always fighting back a desire to kill, steal and rape?

People who are always fighting back an urge to kill, steal, rape, or harm others in any way and only refrain from doing so for fear of punishment are called sociopaths.  It isn't a normal  state of being either for religious people or non-religious people.  If your religion is necessary for you to not desire to harm others then you are in need of mental health care.  

You seriously feel nothing when someone gets hurt?  You really don't have any feelings of grief or empathy when you think about or hear about other people getting hurt?  Then, in your case, until you can get mental health care, please stick to your religious beliefs.

If the idea of hurting someone does not, on its own, make you feel ill, you are not well.  Please seek help.

Dear moslim, I'm not going to repeat the explanations the others have given you because I believe they were enough to reply to your first post. However I am only going to add two points to the whole discussion:

1) The research you posted on suicide is an interesting one but I want you to consider the following. Even if there is somehow a correlation between the lack of belief and suicide (which I believe is absurd) it doesn't even support your statement that "atheism fell long ago" or that Atheists have shorter lives than believers. Also since you brought up the subject of suicide, I'd like to ask you: What about the Muslim fanatics who commit suicide by blowing up themselves and taking the lives of hundreds of innocent people so that they can enjoy 72 virgins in heaven (considering the number of young Jihadists, the 72 virgins could be all MALE by the way)? Who's putting the lives of others in danger, the atheist? Considering your previous replies, I'm sure you will respond by saying "well what about Hitler then?" which brings me to my second point.

2) I would like to recommend a book to you by John Gray, "Black Mass: Apocalyptic Religion and the Death of Utopia" which depicts the true motives behind Hitler's eugenics "experiments". As a Catholic, Hitler believed in the Apocalypse (that Christ will return to this world and destroy it and then judge everyone who has every lived). Also, antisemitism (hatred against Jews) was very common in Germany; many people believed that Jews are a lower race which needed to be either exterminated or converted into Christianity before the second coming of Christ. Hitler, being an antisemitic as well as psychopath, believed that it was his duty to remove Judaism from existence, and when he came to power, this was exactly what he tried to do.

Quote from: "philosoraptor"Either you're being obtuse, or you just don't understand because of language issues

Or he is trolling....

Most people who have chosen to learn English know it well enough to not seem crazy when they try to have a conversation in English.

Quote from: "JillSwift"

Quote from: "moslim"aslam alikom orhmt allah wabrkath (Peace, mercy and blessings of God)
       
I am a Muslim Arab
I want to put my point of view

Hello!

Quote from: "moslim"I think that atheism fell long ago

Meaningless. Atheism is a state of disbelief, not a monolithic system of beliefs. There's nothing to "fall".

Quote from: "moslim"Embrace of atheism often commit suicide does not live long

You've been lied to. The evidence suggests Atheists live to the same average age as believers.

Quote from: "moslim"Atheism has no morals morality derives from religion

You've been lied to again. Morality derives from the zeitgeist and is mutable despite religious texts, as can be seen by anyone who studies history.

Quote from: "moslim"Atheism, terrorism is trying to suppress religion and his followers killed without pity or mercy

Not sure what this means. So far, terrorists all seem to be believers of some stripe. Religion gets quite a free ride from even being criticized, never mind oppressed (Unless a majority religion is oppressing a minority religion.).

Hello.
I was about to annihilate your "argument" like the piece of blahblah hogwash it is, then I saw JillSwift already did post this, and now I don't have to any more. Woot.  

Quote from: "moslim"I do not agree with you the definitions of atheist

Then you're talking to the wrong people. Go find 'atheists' that fit your definition and bother them instead. You're out of your league here anyway.

Quote from: "elliebean"

Quote from: "moslim"I do not agree with you the definitions of atheist

Then you're talking to the wrong people. Go find 'atheists' that fit your definition and bother them instead. You're out of your league here anyway.

Don't kill the fun!  

Quote from: "moslim"karadan I do not agree with you the definitions of atheist


Dretlin Did Hitler go to church and preach the Christian religion

Give me the directory of the words and actions he is a Christian

Look here everyone
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/con ... 61/12/2303 (http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/161/12/2303)


Heretical Rants you afraid of the consequences only
Without consequences will kill me and Tsergni

KDbeads I have seen links
Search for a book of Daroyen to Hitler
Talk about the relationship between them in detail

_7654_ _7654_ Atheism was based on the theories fell and fell with

Give me evidence that God does not exist

So my understanding that the last 2 questions are for me ..
Atheism was not based on a theory or theories that happen to have been fallen somehow. Again,
we are Atheists, we do exist, and we correctly think there is no god. Your information about falling is vastly
inaccurate

I a way, your second question is a classic fallacy on it's own. Since it is philosophically known that you can't prove a negative.
it is akin to me asking you to show me that no blue nosed dolphins exist. A much simpler preposition, but i am sure you will
fail to provide convincing evidence for the nonexistence of blue nosed dolphins.

moslim

With respect to you. Your English is simply not good enough to be accurately understood. What you have typed is close to meaningless. But you have tried and that is good, very good as learning to speak English is a huge step towards real understanding. As the English language is now the effective international language of science (apologies to any non-native English speakers here) it is critical that you understand it if you are to really find out what the world is all about.

You have been misled (not lied) to all your life by the people you trust most, your parents, teachers and friends. They know nothing of atheism or even worse have been told lies about us. If you want to know what atheists think about the world why don't you ask us rather than tell us what we think?

You are a Muslim. Do you like being told what Muslims think? I don't think you like being told what you think. I know I don't like being told what I think by somebody who does not know me, has never met me, who knows nothing of my family, knows nothing of my education and who knows nothing of the culture I grew up in.

moslim, you have found a place where lots of friendly people meet and chat. If this were real life would you burst into somebodies house and start shouting abut how evil they were, how immoral they were? I hope not, because you probably have better manners and respect for others in real life. So why have you behaved in such a bad mannered, rude and inconsiderate way here? I thing your Mother and Father would be most upset with you if you behaved like this in real life so why do you behave so badly here. I would be ashamed of my children if they went on a Muslim site and behaved the way you have. You have no respect for other people, their views or their experiences.

You have come to a place where you can learn. The best thing to do is ask questions rather than attempt to teach.

Tank

Excellent post, Tank.

Quote from: "philosoraptor"Excellent post, Tank.

Thank you, Philosoraptor. Sometimes on forums people get so tied up in getting their message over they just loose sight of the simple things that allow meaningful discussion to take place, such as politeness.  

Will * If atheism minus
Your word is incorrect Because the ideas of philosophers into ideologies
* Give me a guide that morality does not come with Religion
This new science and ethics existed since time immemorial
This science can not prove that the proportion of those who Ethics
Morals have her relative
You will not steal because people look at you
If you're in a society that allows for murder killed

* There is a political trick in Afghanistan you do not know what happened and what is happening there
By the United States

* Altruism does not exist Why did if
You took a strange paradox term preference of religion

* Harun Yahya Read his article
http://www.mediamonitors.net/harunyahya20.html (http://www.mediamonitors.net/harunyahya20.html)

http://www.mediamonitors.net/harunyahya20 (http://www.mediamonitors.net/harunyahya20). html

Thank you for your esteemed Hawwark

QuoteAdnan Oktar (born Ankara, February 2, 1956), also known by his pen name, Harun Yahya, is a Turkish proponent of Islamic creationism, anti-Zionism and Holocaust denial.[1] and, more particularly, supports Old Earth creationism.[2][3] Oktar denounces Zionism as racism and Freemasonry, and Darwinism as the source of terrorism.[4] He has created controversies in the past few years by sending out thousands of unsolicited texts advocating Islam and creationism to schools and colleges in several European countries and USA.[5][3] Oktar had defended his views by litigation; he is responsible for the blocking of numerous, high-profile Web sites in Turkey.

Oktar runs two organizations: Bilim Araştırma Vakfı ("Science Research Foundation", BAV, established 1990), which promotes creationism and Milli Değerleri Koruma Vakfı ("Foundation to Protect National Values", established 1995), which focuses on "moral issues".[6]

Oktar has spent 19 months in jail for writing provocative and inflammatory articles about Jews and their customs in his book Judaism and Freemasonry and in 2008 he was convicted of creating an illegal organization for personal gain, and he and 17 other members of his organisation were sentenced to three years in prison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Oktar

THAT guy is someone you link to as a compelling source?  Yikes.  Holocaust denier...that does not make me trust his opinion on anything, honestly.

Kylyssa  Religious taught me to respect others and not Awvem
You are of your knowledge, respect for others
I'll stay a Muslim and will die a Muslim
Give me evidence that the atheist does not want to kill
Feelings are relative

Quote from: "moslim"Give me evidence that the atheist does not want to kill

I am evidence.  I am an atheist and I don't want to kill.  Therefore your grossly inappropriate over-generalization of atheists immediately fails.

moslim

Throughout time and across the world morality has been and continues to be mutable. Each isolated society has developed and adhered to its own moral code that suited its own circumstances. My morality stems from my upbringing by my parents, the behaviour of my friends and the cultural influences I have been exposed to. Your morality has been bequeathed to you in exactly the same manner. When you were born you were a moral 'blank page' your morality has been written on you just as it has on me. However your morality is full of mysticism, bigotry and ignorance caused by the religion your parents followed, because they were mislead by their parents and way on back into the distant past.

My family broke the link between morality and mysticism and so have I with my children. You need to understand you are the product of your upbringing. You have to understand you don't know everything (I know less than I could possibly understand in ten lifetimes) and never can. We (humans) are all more ignorant than knowledgeable, the trouble is we don't like 'not knowing' so we invent the perfect father (God) we expect the perfect father to look after us and always know the answers. It's very difficult to realise that the perfect father (God) is a figment of our imagination, our desire to feel safe. We attribute this perfect father with perfect insight and perfect fairness and our ancestors wrote these ideas down in books. These books took on lives of there own and became the embodiment of the perfect father, they became our rules because when they were written only powerful people could read and write and were held in awe and respect.

Morals from an old book are faulty because they were based on primitive values influenced by the desire for power and the 'alpha male' desires of those that wrote them. We are moving on from those times now we have a much better understanding (self consistent and repeatable/predictable) of the universe around us. We understand the need to pay more than lip-service to 'The Golden Rule' that the 'alpha male' attitude of times past may not be the best way to run a world where there are people everywhere.

Morals are human constructs, mutable and fallible. The best we can do is not hurt one and other.  We can't do that as long as we hold the primitive views of our unsophisticated ancestors as inviolate pronunciations of a mystical/mythical perfect father who has never really existed.

Tank

Quote from: "pinkocommie"

Quote from: "moslim"Give me evidence that the atheist does not want to kill

I am evidence.  I am an atheist and I don't want to kill.  Therefore your grossly inappropriate over-generalization of atheists immediately fails.

I too am an atheist I would not kill except to protect myself, my family or an innocent person under threat of death.

moslim

You can't tell people what they are. It is very rude and bad mannered.

Quote from: "moslim"Give me evidence that the atheist does not want to kill

Give me evidence that the Moslim does not want to kill.

FTLebanon           *I mean theories that crashed and was based upon atheism
Islam prohibits suicide he committed suicide we have in the Fire
well what about Hitler then hhhhhh
Joked with you

*See Link

Quote from: "i_am_i"

Quote from: "moslim"Give me evidence that the atheist does not want to kill

Give me evidence that the Moslim does not want to kill.

Bump.

Quote from: "moslim"FTLebanon           *I mean theories that crashed and was based upon atheism
Islam prohibits suicide he committed suicide we have in the Fire
well what about Hitler then hhhhhh
Joked with you

*See Link

This is clearly a joke.

Really?  Clearly?  I don't know what to make of it, but I am comfortable regarding this person as a (possibly unintentional) troll.

Quote from: "pinkocommie"Really?  Clearly?  I don't know what to make of it, but I am comfortable regarding this person as a (possibly unintentional) troll.

Really? Possibly?
 

?

I don't understand a thing that moslim is trying to say. I couldn't write english that bad even if I tried...

It's becoming increasingly difficult to engage in positive discussion with you moslim, as your answers are making less and less sense, and looking more like they were run through a poor online translator.  You obviously have your mind made up about what an atheist is either way, however you are dead wrong and are not going to convince anyone here.  Just a thought, maybe someone who is an atheist knows more about what it means to be one than someone who is not.

I've compiled everything moslim has posted to this thread and made it into modern poetry. It's subversive and very much cutting edge. Hell, it's almost brilliant. I'm thinking about submiting it to the New Yorker.

Atheism, Terrorism

I am a Muslim Arab
I want to put my point of view
I think that atheism fell long ago
Embrace of atheism often commit suicide does not live long
Atheism has no morals morality derives from religion
Atheism, terrorism is trying to suppress religion and his followers killed without pity or mercy
Do not believe Why do you put more???
I did not understand how it is not a belief?? Know me or possible beliefs, in your opinion??
Can you please explain to me more
Please give me a guide that atheists live in the same average age of believers
Aoki, who came from the moral starting??
Which calls for ethics is religion
And give me evidence of history
I mean see what I did in the world of communism and the Hitler Muslim Turkistan and China
We Muslims the world over judging in a time of times and lived
Religions, Christianity and Buddhism in India at peace with us
Even atheism is now live in peace with us did not kill Lara religious atheist Muslim countries
Thank you for your respect through dialogue
My brothers did not respond to my questions??
My brothers did not respond to my questions??
Did not respond to any point of the topic
I did not understand what you mean aircraft, buildings, and eat children and have sex before marriage
Dretlin Where From morals??
philosoraptor they did not follow the teachings of Islam
But Hitler and communism destroyed the world the teachings of atheism
This difference
Tank, Why do not you do??
Nothing prevents you
Why not do these things
Atheist only be considered on the ethics of interest
Book the Bible you have philosophers
Hitler Doing this from the teachings of Darwinism
karadan I do not agree with you the definitions of atheist
Dretlin Did Hitler go to church and preach the Christian religion
Give me the directory of the words and actions he is a Christian
Heretical Rants you afraid of the consequences only
Without consequences will kill me and Tsergni
KDbeads I have seen links
Search for a book of Daroyen to Hitler
Talk about the relationship between them in detail
Give me evidence that God does not exist
Dretlin I mean Hitler
Will If atheism minus
Your word is incorrect Because the ideas of philosophers into ideologies
Give me a guide that morality does not come with Religion
This new science and ethics existed since time immemorial
This science can not prove that the proportion of those who Ethics
Morals have her relative
You will not steal because people look at you
If you're in a society that allows for murder killed
There is a political trick in Afghanistan you do not know what happened and what is happening there
By the United States
Altruism does not exist Why did if
You took a strange paradox term preference of religion
Thank you for your esteemed Hawwark
Kylyssa Religious taught me to respect others and not Awvem
You are of your knowledge, respect for others
I'll stay a Muslim and will die a Muslim
Give me evidence that the atheist does not want to kill
Feelings are relative
FTLebanon I mean theories that crashed and was based upon atheism
Islam prohibits suicide he committed suicide we have in the Fire
well what about Hitler then hhhhhh
Joked with you

Haha. That is so great. Maybe you could turn it into a song next. I would totally buy that on iTunes.

Quote from: "Cecilie"Haha. That is so great. Maybe you could turn it into a song next. I would totally buy that on iTunes.

Oh man, putting that to music would be crazy! Hell, I might give it a go. Maybe some kind of funky drum 'n bass groove. Hah!

You really should do it! I'm super cereal! The only problem would be to remember the lyrics.

Quote from: "moslim"Will * If atheism minus
Your word is incorrect Because the ideas of philosophers into ideologies
* Give me a guide that morality does not come with Religion

I did when I gave a brief description of human behavioral evolution. If you would like me to elaborate in greater detail, I can. Still, the answer doesn't have to be that complicated:

I, Will, disbelieve the existence of god and gods. I am not religious at all and desrive none of my thoughts or behaviors from religion.
I, Will, am moral.  I think of others before myself, I assist those in need without asking anything in return and I treat others as I wish to be teated.
Therefore, morality does not necessarily come from religion.

Quote from: "moslim"This new science and ethics existed since time immemorial
This science can not prove that the proportion of those who Ethics
Morals have her relative
You will not steal because people look at you
If you're in a society that allows for murder killed

I will not steal for several reasons. The most obvious reason is that I live in a society and as such there are consequences for theft. In addition to this, however, is that I have an innate sense that theft is wrong. That innate sense comes from, as I said above, millions of years of social evolution. Thirdly, I do not steal because ultimately I am damaging the society of which I am a member. If I steal from my neighbor, there's a ripple effect that spreads out and effects more people.

Quote from: "moslim"* There is a political trick in Afghanistan you do not know what happened and what is happening there
By the United States

A very good friend of mine lives in Afghanistan, so I'll email him and ask about political trickery vs. religious indoctrination. If our previous discussions on the topic are any indication, though, I'm afraid he's going to back me up on this 100%. Islam can be and is used for terrible things. To deny that is to deny reality.

Quote from: "moslim"* Altruism does not exist Why did if
You took a strange paradox term preference of religion

Pure altruism can't exist, but practical altruism does. I elaborated on this above.

What language is native to you? Perhaps it would be easier to do this in Farsi or Arabic.

Quote from: "moslim"Kylyssa  Religious taught me to respect others and not Awvem
You are of your knowledge, respect for others
I'll stay a Muslim and will die a Muslim
Give me evidence that the atheist does not want to kill
Feelings are relative

Look, harun yahya is a crook, there is no truth in what he says, keeps misrepresenting scientific facts and mixes fact with mythology. What he does, is appeal to a simple mind by fulfilling it's wishes. There is a difference between that, and presenting the facts the way they are, without trying to appeal to any prepositions or predispositions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Oktar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Oktar) i don't think he has a nice track record if you care to read the document here. Also i won't be surprised that you can't read it because he would have wikipedia blocked anyways.

Many ppl i know said so, and let me tell you, they are no longer Muslim or anything like that. Humans have minds of their own, and until they realize that, and learn to use it properly they will just stay muslim, and if they stay long enough, they may never see the light.

An atheist does not want to kill, to put it simply using your words, because doing so is not beneficial to anybody. A society that condones killing will not do as well as another one that does not allow it, and over time that society will grow and prosper, mostly at the expense of the society that condones killing. And there is also the reciprocal golden rule: You shall no do onto others, what you do not want done onto you. Religion states that the punishment of murder is death, simply validating the golden rule, and the reciprocal golden rule, except these golden rules well predate any religion, they even exist in monkey and lion prides, as as many other social animals... it is not even human, it is part of how life and evolution works. This is a very unreasonable assumption from your side to even assume. The other interesting revelation is, atheists don't think there is an afterlife either, and that deals away with heaven (reward) and hell (punishment) aspect of the supernatural motivation or discouragement to murder. Add to that, that we atheist cherish our lives, and understand that this is our only chance to do good in the world, we don't want to waste it not doing good, and most importantly, we don't want to waste anyone Else's life for the very same reason. So an atheist would alternately have no urge to be violent towards his/her fellow human beings, and finds if far more useful and beneficial to harmoniously work together with others to achieve a better society.

Feelings, interesting to bring this one up. I am not sure if you actually meant it that way. They are the biochemical and psychological reaction of usually external inputs with your conscious and semi conscious mind. The reaction is based upon some hard wired behavioral patterns, like fear of snakes, fear of darkness etc.. and learned patterns, like fear of other religions and fear of an imaginary gods etc... but ultimately these are reactions within your mind, and they can be controlled and managed by you, either deliberately on inadvertently. You can exaggerated them, ignore them, suppress them, transform them, or amplify and express them. Ultimately you control your emotions, feelings and reactions, and not someone else.

elliebeanI have an objection
I have an objection
Do not compel me to your definition of
If you want to debate the topic

Quote from: "moslim"Tarivatkm Special

According to the internet, this doesn't exist.  Not even when capitalized!

Quote from: "moslim"Do not compel me to your definition of
If you want to debate the topic

Seriously?  Because you're trying to argue with a bunch of atheists about what atheism is.  Take your own advice, hypocrite.

Tank *   ok give me a definition of atheism

_7654_        
God article or nature

i_am_i
We have texts deny murder

This hardly seems constructive.  Are you here to talk or to fight with us about what we think?   It seems like you're just looking to fight which I think is considered preaching and will get you banned.  As for the definition of atheism, multiple people have presented the definition to you and you seem happy to reject it, so why ask for it again?  What is your point?

pinkocommie can criticize the books

Quote from: "moslim"pinkocommie can criticize the books

 moslim can look at the sky.

Ok, your turn to make a random statement that doesn't mean anything relevant!  

I know you're angry with me
I came to discuss the secular
If you see that my words wrong
Give me a directory

pinkocommie :

I mean the books of Harun Yahya

So I have to ask, why aren't you discussing the secular?  Telling people that they are killers and they they don't have a correct understanding of their own affiliations, then posting links to a some Turkish holocaust denying creationist clown who wrote about Hitler and Darwin is not the actions of someone looking for a discussion.

Quote from: "moslim"I know you're angry with me
I came to discuss the secular
If you see that my words wrong
Give me a directory

You had me fooled, because it seems evident you are pushing a religiously based agenda.  Atheism is secular, Islam is not.  You seem to be confused on this count.

philosoraptor

Why angry?
I agree with you man
Defined secularism??

pinkocommie :

We see that the oppressed
You can not prove the contrary
If you live with can speak about

Secularism supports the separation of church and state.  Secular on its own just means nonreligious or not affiliated with religious thinking.

Am I mad?  No.  Annoyed that you seem to think you know more about atheism than a group of atheists does?  Yes.

Quote from: "moslim"elliebeanI have an objection
I have an objection
Do not compel me to your definition of
If you want to debate the topic

While the topic is atheism, and we are the atheist, then, please, lets enlighten you, we kinda know what atheist means... for some blindingly obvious reasons.

philosoraptor :

Excellent
I agree with you man
I did not say I know more than you about atheism

You're sounding kind of culty, there, buddy.  The most absurd part of his rantings is the obsession with Freemasons.  I suppose if you're already comfortable with magical thinking, insane conspiracy theories might not seem that far fetched, but on the board like this I doubt you're going to get many people willing to take you seriously.

_7654_ _7654_  :

ok

Quote from: "moslim"philosoraptor :

Excellent
I agree with you man
I did not say I know more than you about atheism

It really comes across that way, though.  You might want to work on articulating yourself and being more clear, because I think most of us here are perceiving you as being purposefully antagonistic and willfully ignorant.

For the record, I also am not a man, at least not the last time I checked.

pinkocommie :


Please Stay away from personalization

Again, this coming from the person who said that atheists kill.  You set the tone and now you are being a hypocrite.

philosoraptor :

What do you want to know exactly??

Quote from: "moslim"philosoraptor :

What do you want to know exactly??

From you?  Nothing.  Those batshit crazy links you've posted tell me all I need to know about your point of view.

pinkocommie :


I said, what kept you from killing

Quote from: "moslim"_7654_ _7654_  :

ok

ok, that's all?  

Quote from: "moslim"We see that the oppressed
You can not prove the contrary
If you live with can speak about

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages36.fotki.com%2Fv1152%2Fphotos%2F8%2F892548%2F6116196%2FOkay_wtf_reaction-vi.gif&hash=98db7e139e03d6a1fcee538340f6feaf2d6f9d68)

Let's sort this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUbjpwyesk0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUbjpwyesk0)

I heavily :-) You just have to love agnostics , i do

Quote from: "moslim"Give me evidence that the atheist does not want to kill

I'm willing to cut you some slack because you're obviously struggling quite a bit with English in order to participate here, but when you requested proof that atheists don't want to kill, it is going to be commonly assumed that your position is that atheists want to kill and you are asking for proof to the contrary.  Which is just as insulting as someone asking you to prove that Muslims don't want to kill.  It begs a defensive response, which isn't very conducive to discussion.

Quote from: "i_am_i"I've compiled everything moslim has posted to this thread and made it into modern poetry. It's subversive and very much cutting edge. Hell, it's almost brilliant. I'm thinking about submiting it to the New Yorker.

Atheism, Terrorism

I am a Muslim Arab
I want to put my point of view
I think that atheism fell long ago
Embrace of atheism often commit suicide does not live long
Atheism has no morals morality derives from religion
Atheism, terrorism is trying to suppress religion and his followers killed without pity or mercy
Do not believe Why do you put more???
I did not understand how it is not a belief?? Know me or possible beliefs, in your opinion??
Can you please explain to me more
Please give me a guide that atheists live in the same average age of believers
Aoki, who came from the moral starting??
Which calls for ethics is religion
And give me evidence of history
I mean see what I did in the world of communism and the Hitler Muslim Turkistan and China
We Muslims the world over judging in a time of times and lived
Religions, Christianity and Buddhism in India at peace with us
Even atheism is now live in peace with us did not kill Lara religious atheist Muslim countries
Thank you for your respect through dialogue
My brothers did not respond to my questions??
My brothers did not respond to my questions??
Did not respond to any point of the topic
I did not understand what you mean aircraft, buildings, and eat children and have sex before marriage
Dretlin Where From morals??
philosoraptor they did not follow the teachings of Islam
But Hitler and communism destroyed the world the teachings of atheism
This difference
Tank, Why do not you do??
Nothing prevents you
Why not do these things
Atheist only be considered on the ethics of interest
Book the Bible you have philosophers
Hitler Doing this from the teachings of Darwinism
karadan I do not agree with you the definitions of atheist
Dretlin Did Hitler go to church and preach the Christian religion
Give me the directory of the words and actions he is a Christian
Heretical Rants you afraid of the consequences only
Without consequences will kill me and Tsergni
KDbeads I have seen links
Search for a book of Daroyen to Hitler
Talk about the relationship between them in detail
Give me evidence that God does not exist
Dretlin I mean Hitler
Will If atheism minus
Your word is incorrect Because the ideas of philosophers into ideologies
Give me a guide that morality does not come with Religion
This new science and ethics existed since time immemorial
This science can not prove that the proportion of those who Ethics
Morals have her relative
You will not steal because people look at you
If you're in a society that allows for murder killed
There is a political trick in Afghanistan you do not know what happened and what is happening there
By the United States
Altruism does not exist Why did if
You took a strange paradox term preference of religion
Thank you for your esteemed Hawwark
Kylyssa Religious taught me to respect others and not Awvem
You are of your knowledge, respect for others
I'll stay a Muslim and will die a Muslim
Give me evidence that the atheist does not want to kill
Feelings are relative
FTLebanon I mean theories that crashed and was based upon atheism
Islam prohibits suicide he committed suicide we have in the Fire
well what about Hitler then hhhhhh
Joked with you

Wow.  :eek:  :eek:

Will :


ok
Q: What is description?
What makes you feel Ethics
Where it came from ethics?

* If you steal in the desert??
 Proved that you have instinct?? Custom instinct
You are afraid of punishment if
Punishment and society is the deterrent to you

* You do not know what is happening there
I did not say I passed this act
See my earlier intervention
Arabic Language
Thank you for your esteemed Hawwark

Quote from: "moslim"Will :


ok
Q: What is description?
What makes you feel Ethics
Where it came from ethics?

* If you steal in the desert??
 Proved that you have instinct?? Custom instinct
You are afraid of punishment if
Punishment and society is the deterrent to you

* You do not know what is happening there
I did not say I passed this act
See my earlier intervention
Arabic Language
Thank you for your esteemed Hawwark

So if you were not a Muslim you would be stealing and killing non-stop?

Cecilie :

I'm sorry
I'm trying to
Excuse my mistakes
I try to the best of my responses
Who did not understand me the
I will try to point out to you

_7654_ :


I mean the feelings are different
From one person to another

The thief does not feel guilt when they steal
Do you understand the meaning??

Quote from: "i_am_i"[okay ;)

Makes me wish I'd jumped on this bus earlier. Looks like I've missed out on one hell of a good time. I'm just so excited to see a Muslim come here who will make rational, thought-out arguments and actually address the issues brought up by us! I can barely contain myself!

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages53.fotki.com%2Fv440%2Fphotos%2F8%2F892548%2F6116196%2Fnbodw4-vi.gif&hash=3302598ff32c8c501a3764e920afd01d92445080)

Quote from: "moslim"Tank *   ok give me a definition of atheism

I'll do my best.  

Here is a wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism) that gives a fairly good definition. However there are considered to be two main definitions of atheism

1) An atheist (75%)
2) A strong atheist (25%)

Roughly 75% of atheists fall into type 1) the remainder fall into type 2). The difference between the two views is that type 1) do not deny the very, very, very tiny chance that some sort of deity could exist. I am a type 1 atheist as I feel it would be foolish to deny something that I can not prove does not exist. It is also virtually impossible to prove a negative. A type 2 'strong atheist' would deny the possibility of any sort of deity ever existing under any circumstances. These figures are derived from a poll on the Richard Dawkins Forum that ran for about 3 years and had about 3,000 responses.

So most people who would call themselves atheists do not believe there is sufficient evidence to believe there is a deity, they do not deny there is a vanishingly small possibility there is a deity but this is more of a logical standpoint.

However take care with what I have said, just because I have said a deity could exist does not mean I think one does. I do not think a deity exists because so far no theist has been able to show me a consistent and logical argument based on current scientific knowledge that indicates any supernatural 'god like' behaviour has ever been found.

I hope this helps, please ask more if I have not explained myself very well.

moslim

You're doing a good job trying to talk to us, you are getting a little better.

Tank

Quote from: "moslim"Cecilie :

I'm sorry
I'm trying to
Excuse my mistakes
I try to the best of my responses
Who did not understand me the
I will try to point out to you

That's great. At least I understood that.

pinkocommie :


Astalin
When it is not something that prevents you
Killings
You can kill me
Do you have a guide
Will not you kill me??
I have the texts deny murder
My religion
And you ?????????????

Is not an insult Guide request

Dretlin :

All religions prohibit killing
Robbery
I will stay Muslim
Do you kill me??

Dretlin :

All religions prohibit killing
and Robbery
I will stay Muslim
Do you kill me??

Quote from: "moslim"Dretlin :

All religions prohibit killing
Robbery
I will stay Muslim
Do you kill me??

That's not entirely true.  The Old Testament of the Christian Bible (and the Torah) advocates killing sinners who commit certain acts in more than one instance.  The book of Leviticus specifically mentions a lot of the circumstances where a person should be killed for sinning.

The Qu'ran also advocates killing infidels, for example: Qur'an: 9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."  And here for a more complete list that advocates violence and killing against non-Muslims: http://prophetofdoom.net/Islamic_Quotes.Islam

These are the examples that come to the top of my mind, but I'm positive there are similar examples in other religions as well.

Quote from: "moslim"Q: What is description?
What makes you feel Ethics
Where it came from ethics?

تطور, نشوء, تحوÙ,,, Ù†Ù...Ùˆ, تÙ,دÙ...

Quote from: "moslim"* If you steal in the desert??
 Proved that you have instinct?? Custom instinct
You are afraid of punishment if
Punishment and society is the deterrent to you

غير Ù...تصÙ,, باÙ,,Ù...وضوع, ِ عِÙ,Ø© Ù,,Ù‡ Ù...ع اÙ,,Ù...وضوع

Quote from: "moslim"* You do not know what is happening there

I know more than you do, apparently.

Quote from: "moslim"Dretlin :

All religions prohibit killing
and Robbery
I will stay Muslim
Do you kill me??

I can honestly say - no. I do not wish to kill you.  

Quote from: "moslim"_7654_ :


I mean the feelings are different
From one person to another

The thief does not feel guilt when they steal
Do you understand the meaning??

The thief knows it is wrong, he feels the guilt, that is why it is easy for police to catch him, and he confesses of doing the wrong thing very quickly. These feeling however did not stop the thief from steeling.

The thief knows it is wrong and immoral to do what he is doing, that is why he tries to keep it a secret, by doing it at night, or by otherwise doing it very carefully not to be spotted.

Now you might find someone who does not feel the guilt, does not know right from wrong, but these we called insane, and they should be put in a mental health institution.

http://www.who.int/mental_health/preven ... erates/en/ (http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide/suiciderates/en/)

And here is one for the suicide rates.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... icide_rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiolo ... te_note-34 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_suicide#cite_note-34)
the document it references for religious correlation is missing by the way.

Tank:

I agree with you on the link
But atheism is a very broad did not come All sections
 And sections of each definition
And make Theories atheism and practical atheism,, and
Subdivisions weird
Agree to 60% of the link
Richard Unreliable study
1 - a person can enter the name of the one hundred and develop response
2 - Give me a link study
3 - is not a study
Methodology and scientific
But not on the ground
But the world of Default
So I am sorry will not accept it
Thank you for your respect

Quote from: "moslim"pinkocommie :


Astalin
When it is not something that prevents you
Killings
You can kill me
Do you have a guide
Will not you kill me??
I have the texts deny murder
My religion
And you ?????????????

Is not an insult Guide request

I don't require a guide or outside source to tell me that killing is wrong. I guess that must be one difference between you and me.  Though I have to say, knowing that the only thing seemingly keeping YOU from killing is your religion telling you not to makes me happy you're a religious person.  You are projecting your own reasoning onto everyone else though, which is a pretty glaring mistake.

All the claims attributed to god has been proved to have occurred otherwise, or have been proved to be false. If god still manages to exist, then he did nothing, and is not worthy of worship.

Quote from: "moslim"Tank:

Richard Unreliable study

It was not a professional study, I agree. However I watched it and the debate that developed around it. It was based on people self categorising themselves on Richard Dawkins Theist to Atheist scale of 1 to 7 where one is a strong theist and 7 is a strong atheist.

Quote from: "moslim"1 - a person can enter the name of the one hundred and develop response

moslim. You never saw the poll nor the software it was run on nor the circumstances under which it happened. Yet you make a blind assertion with no evidence whatsoever! The poll was carried out on Richard Dawkins forum. Which used the same software as here. At RDF we were very keen to stop sock-puppets (people with more than one identity). Each member was only allowed one identity and while I was a moderator there we were very keen on stopping duplicate identities. The members who created sock-puppet accounts were banned. So multiple votes were not an issue.

Quote from: "moslim"2 - Give me a link study

Found it http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtop ... f3360f37e6 (http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=742&sid=70440f48b30fd669fcd733f3360f37e6)

Here is a screen capture of the poll.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg594.imageshack.us%2Fimg594%2F2415%2Fatheistpoll.jpg&hash=2b465c97c004cd53a91f9fea8a2e86bbcfb646d0)

Of the 5,126 respondents 4,555 (89%) defined themselves as atheists. It is this segment of the population that is of interest. Of the self declared atheists 72% defined themselves as defacto atheists, they do not deny the remote possibility of there being a deity but do not expect one to be found or proven. 28% self defined as strong atheists where they do not believe a deity exists.

Quote from: "moslim"3 - is not a study

No, not a formal study. But it was very close to the heart of the question of atheist self identity and therefore very relevant to the issue of what is atheism as it was a long running debate by atheists about what being an atheist means. As a long running debate with thousands of votes and posts I feel it is a very good guide.

Quote from: "moslim"Methodology and scientific

Not a specific scientific study, but a very human and revealing one.

Quote from: "moslim"But not on the ground

I don't understand what you mean by this?

Quote from: "moslim"But the world of Default

Again not sure what you mean by this?

Quote from: "moslim"So I am sorry will not accept it

Well now you have access to the information maybe you should reconsider your view point.

Quote from: "moslim"Thank you for your respect

Take care, be well.

We are still affording this troll posting privileges after nine pages of drivel?

I think it's pretty clear it doesn't care for rational dialogue, even if its grasp of English is so poor.

Benefit of the doubt has worn off far more quickly on previous occasions.

 

philosoraptor :


We Muslims
Believe in Judaism and Christianity
We believe and we know
It's as wrong now

in origin
Was denied murder and theft

The Muslims are all the verses of self defense
in war
If you understand the Arab
I explained to you the most
Hand, language
The site where many
Of errors

Quote from: "karadan"We are still affording this troll posting privileges after nine pages of drivel?

I think it's pretty clear it doesn't care for rational dialogue, even if its grasp of English is so poor.

Benefit of the doubt has worn off far more quickly on previous occasions.

 

I don't think moslim is a troll, yet. A little more rope please.

Meh. Carry on banging your head against a wall by all means

I'll continue to read other topics which are of genuine interest.

Quote from: "karadan"Meh. Carry on banging your head against a wall by all means :)  In my opinion and experience an active troll is indistinguishable from a poe or a fundamental theist and each are worthy of an equal response. However I don't get to meet many genuine theists in RL so I like to take the opportunity to try and communicate with them on-line if at all possible. I realise that the chances of starting a useful dialogue is low, but worth the effort in my opinion. I am a member of TheologyWeb, but the overwhelming feeling I got there was one of desperation on the part of theists to justify there world views. The worst bit was watching Christians slagging each other off all the time and in the most rude and bad mannered terms, very depressing.

Will :


Good attempt
Congratulations
But the Arabic Language difficult
And the translation is Inaccurate
Englishman spoke to me the best

* The first point is Unintelligible
Explain more

* Is connected to
I mean fungal
And not instinct
Please see your response earlier

Quote from: "moslim"Richard Unreliable study
...
is not a study
Methodology and scientific
But not on the ground
But the world of Default
So I am sorry will not accept it

Says someone who believes in fairy tales.  

Moslim has demonstrated traits of closed-mindedness, in particular rejecting evidence out-of-hand.

I'm not sure there is anything to be gained in discussion with someone who will refuse to listen to ideas contrary to his own.

Quote from: "JillSwift"Moslim has demonstrated traits of closed-mindedness, in particular rejecting evidence out-of-hand.

I'm not sure there is anything to be gained in discussion with someone who will refuse to listen to ideas contrary to his own.

Indeed.

Can this thread be about shampoo now please?

Quote from: "JillSwift"Moslim has demonstrated traits of closed-mindedness, in particular rejecting evidence out-of-hand.

I'm not sure there is anything to be gained in discussion with someone who will refuse to listen to ideas contrary to his own.

Agreed.  I was convinced early on that moslim was a troll, then he (I'm assuming moslim is a he, I could be wrong) kind of seemed like he was trying to have a conversation, but now it would seem he's gone back to wasting time.  Though also, I suppose if Whitney doesn't feel compelled to ban him and Tank (and others?) still want to try to talk to him, there isn't much harm.  I do enjoy sitting back and reading a debate unfold, I just honestly feel like moslim's English is so bad (an observation, not an insult), he may not even be trying to say some of what we all are interpreting him as saying.  Though that is a generous portion of benefit of the doubt.

I can understand why people would think moslim is a troll, he behaves like one. However, how can one tell a troll from a true believer working in a non-native tongue they are just getting used to? I'm not sure one could.

Quote from: "Tank"I can understand why people would think moslim is a troll, he behaves like one. However, how can one tell a troll from a true believer working in a non-native tongue they are just getting used to? I'm not sure one could.

True. A troll is someone who is entertaining him or herself by purposefully egging-on posters, deliberately being difficult for the sake of fun. Moslem could just be a naive (albeit well-intentioned), non-native English speaker who believes s/he's making legitimate and meaningful contributions to a topic in which s/he has a great deal of personal interest. I'm honestly inclined to believe the latter.

Doesn't change the fact that s/he makes me want to  

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"

Quote from: "Tank"I can understand why people would think moslim is a troll, he behaves like one. However, how can one tell a troll from a true believer working in a non-native tongue they are just getting used to? I'm not sure one could.

True. A troll is someone who is entertaining him or herself by purposefully egging-on posters, deliberately being difficult for the sake of fun. Moslem could just be a naive (albeit well-intentioned), non-native English speaker who believes s/he's making legitimate and meaningful contributions to a topic in which s/he has a great deal of personal interest. I'm honestly inclined to believe the latter.

Doesn't change the fact that s/he makes me want to  

Frankly after a while these sort of interactions tend to want to make me :shootmyself:

But in my experience you can never change the mind of somebody who considers you their enemy. For there to be a meaningful dialogue one has to at least attain neutral ground, and that's where I'd like to get with moslim, neutral ground, it may not be possible, time has yet to tell us.

Weather or not he's a troll almost seems like a reverse 'Poe' argument. If a believer has unreasoning and absolute faith how can you tell him from someone who is delibratly trying to be confrontational and obtuse?

Quote from: "i_am_i"

Quote from: "moslim"Atheist only be considered on the ethics of interest

Well in that case, Mo' Slim, first you're going to have to explain what you mean by the "ethics of interest."

I know, I know, your English is lousy, I mean let's face it, your English is terrible. This means, to me anyway, that you're coming in here half-cocked as we say. Another way of putting it is that you don't have your shit together. And I know you don't understand anything I just said.

Sell crazy somewhere else. You might start with those brothers you mentioned earlier.

i have nothing to contribute to this train wreck of a thread. i didnt make it past this post either. i dont know what happens from here, it could be shampoo, or maybe even a really good post.
i just wanted to say that this is my favorite post.

QuoteWell in that case, Mo' Slim, first you're going to have to explain what you mean by the "ethics of interest."

I know, I know, your English is lousy, I mean let's face it, your English is terrible. This means, to me anyway, that you're coming in here half-cocked as we say. Another way of putting it is that you don't have your shit together. And I know you don't understand anything I just said.

grant it i know its not his fault (i say him because he said he is arabic and muslim. i dont think women are allowed to use computers in islamic countries... so i say its a he) that his english sucks, but its not mine either. so im stuck reading basically the same post or response over and over again from his "moral high ground" . should i reply i doubt my post would be understood and i get to once again reread the same shit yet again. and then some preaching on top of it.
i dont post on islamic forums because i cant read the squiggly lines on my computer screen. and i dont post "facts" about topics i know nothing about. Unless im trying to be thick headed… wich I have been known to do.
I would drag this rant out but I need to STFU.

Quote from: "Tanker"Weather or not he's a troll almost seems like a reverse 'Poe' argument. If a believer has unreasoning and absolute faith how can you tell him from someone who is delibratly trying to be confrontational and obtuse?

That's the problem, you can't! So one ends up choosing based on ones own preconceived world view. Frankly when faced with the utterly mind numbing dogma saturated mind of the theistic fundamentalist free thinking individuals can not comprehend what they are seeing. I suspect that when faced with a true believe it is easier to perceive them as a troll because the other option is to perceive them as effectively insane.

Quote from: "G-Roll"i dont think women are allowed to use computers in islamic countries...

AFAIK there is no Islamic prohibition against females using computers in Islamic countries. In a work environment they are analogous to pen and paper. What goes on in the home is of course down to the individuals in the home.

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "G-Roll"i dont think women are allowed to use computers in islamic countries...

AFAIK there is no Islamic prohibition against females using computers in Islamic countries. In a work environment they are analogous to pen and paper. What goes on in the home is of course down to the individuals in the home.

And generally the male individuals of the home will inform his property, i mean, his woman, that she is only allowed to use the computer to order cleaning products for the kitchen - under supervision of course. Allah knows a woman left to their own devices on a computer could spell potential disaster for the internet, such is their inherent incompetence with such things.

One thing I have to remind myself is that I have never met a Muslim in real life that I didn't get on with. Now to extrapolate that situation to say that I would like ALL Muslims would be as stupid as saying ALL Muslims are bad, particularly if one hasn't met one in real life. I don't live far away from Bradistan (Bradford) which as the nick name implies has a huge Pakistani immigrant population 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation now. They're just people trying to get on with their lives.

Indeed. It all depends on the country, region, county, sect, etc. Some areas of Pakistan are highly moderate whereas some areas of Saudi are horrendously oppressive. It all depends on where various muslims live as to how strict their practices have to be.

I've lived in a muslim country before so I can attest to what you say about the amiability of moderate muslims.

Dretlin :

What is the inhibitor ??


 _7654_ :


No he did not know it was a mistake
Keep it a secret
Because he knows he will
Go to jail
There are people who do not recognize the
Police
Murder crime
No
See its owner as a crime
Not
Psychiatric patients
Because they are sentenced
Death
Not
Go to a mental hospital
You may see something wrong
Others see it is true
Feelings relative

What??

  :twak:

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "G-Roll"i dont think women are allowed to use computers in islamic countries...

AFAIK there is no Islamic prohibition against females using computers in Islamic countries. In a work environment they are analogous to pen and paper. What goes on in the home is of course down to the individuals in the home.

 that was a joke.

_7654_ :


God Us Heaven
God created the universe
God created you you

Quote from: "moslim"_7654_ :


God Us Heaven
God created the universe
God created you you

Prove it.

Quote from: "moslim"_7654_ :


God Us Heaven
God created the universe
God created you you

You are just making assertions without any evidence.  I could say all kinds of crazy crap, that doesn't make it true.  Evidence is required in order to prove an assertion correct.

Tank :
You can not no matter how you try to
To prevent people to vote
10 times or 20 or 30
He can change it relates to
To vote again
Or change the ip

* Can any religious to vote
You can not prevent
The study on the ground
Be more confident

* So I am sorry I will not accept the
This drew my
Thank you for your respect

JillSwift :



Will not respond to you if you refuse to listen to you
But I respect your opinion but I will not shut up
I will put my point of view and I think that this is my right

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages42.fotki.com%2Fv1365%2Fphotos%2F8%2F892548%2F6116196%2FTruckTireOutOfNowhere-vi.gif&hash=93e053e7fc8263bcd17c17be61ab25de5a25f6dd)

Makes about as much sense.

Quote from: "moslim"JillSwift :


I will not want
If i am refuse
Listening to you
But I'd think
But I will not shut up
Never argue with and make
My point
I think this is my right

Please moslim, just put it all in one line. These lines with only a few words are probably making the translator fail more than it should.
Also try:
Google Translator (http://translate.google.com)
It's not perfect, but at least we might be able to understand what you're saying.

I think that
doing
a few words
per line
is destroying the
translation
---Arabic---
وأعتÙ,د أن
فعÙ,,
بضع ÙƒÙ,,Ù...ات
في ÙƒÙ,, سطر
تدÙ...ر
ترجÙ...Ø©
---English---
I think that
Act
A few words
Each line in the
Palmyra
Translation

Instead of doing that, do this:

I think that doing a few words per line is ruining the translation.
---Arabic---
وأعتÙ,د أن اÙ,,Ù,ياÙ... بضع ÙƒÙ,,Ù...ات في ÙƒÙ,, سطر هو تدÙ...ير اÙ,,ترجÙ...Ø©.
---English---
I think that a few words in each line is the destruction of the translation.

:blink:

Quote from: "G-Roll"

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "G-Roll"i dont think women are allowed to use computers in islamic countries...

AFAIK there is no Islamic prohibition against females using computers in Islamic countries. In a work environment they are analogous to pen and paper. What goes on in the home is of course down to the individuals in the home.

 that was a joke.

Ah! I don't spot jokes on occasion  

Quote from: "elliebean"May
It
Full
From this point
Practice fucking

 :bananacolor:

Quote from: "moslim"JillSwift :



Will not respond to you if you refuse to listen to you
But I respect your opinion but I will not shut up
I will put my point of view and I think that this is my right

The translator isn't doing its job very well.

You may speak your mind. I do not object.
You are not listening.

Quote from: "moslim"Tank :
You can not no matter how you try to
To prevent people to vote
10 times or 20 or 30

Yes you can, and we did.

The study is not rigorous, I agree. However it is relevant to the way 4,500 atheists see themselves.

Quote from: "elliebean"From this point
Practice fucking

Always good advice from those :D

Dretlin _________ pinkocommie :



Did not prove to me that you do not want to kill me ?

ok
I will show you
* The exact system of the universe
Which indicates that there is a Creator


* You are you are indicating that you are a creature

Quote from: "moslim"Dretlin _________ pinkocommie :



Did not prove to me that you do not want to kill me ?

ok
I will show you
* The exact system of the universe
Which indicates that there is a Creator


* You are you are indicating that you are a creature

You want me to prove to you that I do not want to kill? Why do you even think I want to kill anything? Let alone another human being?

You are the one making the claim about a god, so the burden of proof lies with you.

Quote from: "moslim"Dretlin _________ pinkocommie :



Did not prove to me that you do not want to kill me ?

ok
I will show you
* The exact system of the universe
Which indicates that there is a Creator


* You are you are indicating that you are a creature

So, you claim that atheists want to kill, I say you're wrong because I don't want to kill, and now you're asking me for proof that I don't want to kill you?  Considering your track record for rejecting perfectly valid information out of hand, I'm not certain it's possible for me to convince you I don't want to kill you.  Which is somewhat troubling, but not something I can do much about on a forum on the internet.  What proof will you accept?

Scouts honor, no backsies, super serial, I don't want to kill you or anyone else.  Is that enough?

It seems like you're arguing from a predetermined conclusion, which makes my part in this discussion frankly impossible.  For instance, let's say I was already convinced that you were a rapist.  Nothing you could possibly say over the internet would change my mind that you're not a rapist.  If you said 'Well I'm not a rapist' I would say 'How do I know you're not lying?  A rapist would lie.'  Would it then be fair for me to go around claiming that you're a rapist because you 'failed' to prove to me that it wasn't true?  No, of course not.

So I guess what I'm saying is, I want to kill people the exact same amount as you are a rapist. (this analogy only holds true in the event that you are NOT a rapist)

The second part of your comment doesn't make any sense to me.