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Getting To Know You => Introductions => Topic started by: Ex-Muslim on April 28, 2010, 11:30:16 AM

Title: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Ex-Muslim on April 28, 2010, 11:30:16 AM
hello everyone

i'm arabian human .. left the religion that i Inherited from my parents

because alot of reasons .. Including

- i believe that the goal of Punishment is reform
so i don't think that there is any reform in the immortal fire

- Error in the application (Acts of Muslims and And terrorist events) . is Error in theory (religion - islam)
Especially that the person who Initiated this religion is the creator of human minds and surely he know the Differences in thinking among people
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Logikos on April 28, 2010, 01:14:20 PM
Welcome Ex-Muslim,

I'm glad you are free from the shackles of Islam.   :)  Do your family know?

Logikos
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Ex-Muslim on April 28, 2010, 02:27:37 PM
Of course not

it's so hard here

Quotei'm glad you are free from the shackles of Islam

thank you Logikos
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Logikos on April 28, 2010, 03:40:31 PM
Quote from: "Ex-Muslim"Of course not

it's so hard here

Quotei'm glad you are free from the shackles of Islam

thank you Logikos
That's what I guessed.  :(   It must be so hard not being able to be yourself - I hope you can do that here on the forum and be able to express your thoughts and feelings.
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: pinkocommie on April 28, 2010, 04:06:52 PM
Welcome to the forum.  :)
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: elliebean on April 28, 2010, 04:37:46 PM
Hello and welcome, Ex-Muslim!

I hope you enjoy the forum.   :)
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Davin on April 28, 2010, 04:57:11 PM
Welcome.
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: philosoraptor on April 28, 2010, 05:43:17 PM
Sounds like you have a long struggle ahead of you.  'Coming out' to a family who is still religious is no easy feat, and I wish you luck.  Aside from that, welcoem to HAF.
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: elliebean on April 28, 2010, 06:03:20 PM
Quote from: "philosoraptor"'Coming out' to a family
I didn't get the impression Ex-Muslim has any intention of 'coming out' and I don't blame him (or her?).
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: philosoraptor on April 28, 2010, 06:38:09 PM
Quote from: "elliebean"
Quote from: "philosoraptor"'Coming out' to a family
I didn't get the impression Ex-Muslim has any intention of 'coming out' and I don't blame him (or her?).
I mean coming out in terms of telling them about his religious choices.  Even if he never does tell them, it's hard to deal with keeping it a secret, too.
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Logikos on April 28, 2010, 06:56:55 PM
Quote from: "philosoraptor"I mean coming out in terms of telling them about his religious choices.  Even if he never does tell them, it's hard to deal with keeping it a secret, too.
Are you aware of the consequences of being known as an atheist in an Islamic community?
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: pinkocommie on April 28, 2010, 07:01:18 PM
Quote from: "Logikos"
Quote from: "philosoraptor"I mean coming out in terms of telling them about his religious choices.  Even if he never does tell them, it's hard to deal with keeping it a secret, too.
Are you aware of the consequences of being known as an atheist in an Islamic community?

I'm not terribly familiar with Egyptian Islamic culture, but isn't honor killing a real concern with more fundamentalist believers?  Atheists whose families are Christian are often concerned about being open about their lack of belief out of fear of being shunned, but the threat of death is pretty low.  I may just be assuming way too much based on very little information, but the threat of being killed when you are an atheist in an Islamic culture is far greater isn't it?
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Logikos on April 28, 2010, 07:14:41 PM
Quote from: "pinkocommie"
Quote from: "Logikos"
Quote from: "philosoraptor"I mean coming out in terms of telling them about his religious choices.  Even if he never does tell them, it's hard to deal with keeping it a secret, too.
Are you aware of the consequences of being known as an atheist in an Islamic community?

I'm not terribly familiar with Egyptian Islamic culture, but isn't honor killing a real concern with more fundamentalist believers?  Atheists whose families are Christian are often concerned about being open about their lack of belief out of fear of being shunned, but the threat of death is pretty low.  I may just be assuming way too much based on very little information, but the threat of being killed when you are an atheist in an Islamic culture is far greater isn't it?
It depends on the country and the particular community (from what I've heard from various Muslims) but suffice it to say that it's a much bigger deal than being shunned by a fundamentalist Christian family.
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Ex-Muslim on April 28, 2010, 08:57:56 PM
Thanks for the welcome

Here is a complex

In my country Egypt there is a law called blasphemy and punishable by imprisonment of 3 years .. Even if it is to know that I discussed in religions with scorn, and particularly Islam will be the fate prison ..
If you are married will be to differentiate between you and your wife

QuoteI mean coming out in terms of telling them about his religious choices. Even if he never does tell them, it's hard to deal with keeping it a secret, too.

you are right .

what can i do  :(
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Heretical Rants on April 28, 2010, 10:18:17 PM
The best thing would be to get rid of the blasphemy law...
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: elliebean on April 28, 2010, 10:32:35 PM
Quote from: "Heretical Rants"The best thing would be to get rid of the blasphemy law...
The trick is doing that without being percieved as commiting blasphemy.
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Davin on April 28, 2010, 10:39:26 PM
Quote from: "elliebean"
Quote from: "Heretical Rants"The best thing would be to get rid of the blasphemy law...
The trick is doing that without being percieved as commiting blasphemy.
Or appearing to want to blaspheme.
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: philosoraptor on April 28, 2010, 11:46:57 PM
Quote from: "Ex-Muslim"Thanks for the welcome

Here is a complex

In my country Egypt there is a law called blasphemy and punishable by imprisonment of 3 years .. Even if it is to know that I discussed in religions with scorn, and particularly Islam will be the fate prison ..
If you are married will be to differentiate between you and your wife

QuoteI mean coming out in terms of telling them about his religious choices. Even if he never does tell them, it's hard to deal with keeping it a secret, too.

you are right .

what can i do  :(

Are you still living in Egypt?  Just curious.
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Ex-Muslim on April 29, 2010, 01:13:22 AM
yes i still living in egypt ..

problem is not the Present .. I am used to it

my problem is the future ..  Marriage - parents - work - the constitution of religious.. etc

thnaks for your advices...
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: philosoraptor on April 29, 2010, 02:23:57 AM
In high school, I had a friend whose parents were from Egypt, and they were Coptic Catholics.  Is this similar to the situation in Ireland, where half the country is Catholic and the other half is Protestant (or in this case, Muslim)?  I'm trying to understand how you could be imprisoned for renouncing Islam in a country where that isn't the only practiced faith.  Or can you be imprisoned for renouncing religion in general?
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Ex-Muslim on April 29, 2010, 04:31:41 AM
The vast majority are Muslims

in law

it's possible to be prisoner cause i left my religion

i mean here Criticism -renouncing of religions .. it 's a crime And can be punished in prison for 3 years at least

Here, a society ruled by the imams not low ..And the extremists are always in their service
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: philosoraptor on April 29, 2010, 06:45:01 AM
Quote from: "Ex-Muslim"The vast majority are Muslims

in law

it's possible to be prisoner cause i left my religion

i mean here Criticism -renouncing of religions .. it 's a crime And can be punished in prison for 3 years at least

Here, a society ruled by the imams not low ..And the extremists are always in their service

I'm sorry you are stuck in such a difficult situation.  As it is, it seems like keeping quiet probably is the best option for you at this point.
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: karadan on April 29, 2010, 09:06:16 AM
Quote from: "Heretical Rants"The best thing would be to get rid of the blasphemy law...

Or move to Sweden.
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: philosoraptor on April 29, 2010, 11:03:01 AM
Quote from: "karadan"
Quote from: "Heretical Rants"The best thing would be to get rid of the blasphemy law...

Or move to Sweden.

I hear the cookies there are delicious.
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: SSY on April 29, 2010, 11:03:36 AM
Interesting that appealing against the blasphemy law could be construed as blasphemous, very pernicious indeed.

Welcome to the real world (ie, the internet)
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: EssejSllim on April 30, 2010, 12:51:19 AM
Welcome,

I actually joined after you but still. I have a similar situation (though not to your extreme - thank you USA) so I can understand - to a degree how you feel. Good to have you.
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Ex-Muslim on May 10, 2010, 11:02:14 AM
sorry

i were busy last days

i'm amoderator in arab atheists forum .. can i put link of the site here ?

i'm in deed looking for immigration or Asylum .. just for feel free before the death

but i see it's complicated .. can you help me ?
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: philosoraptor on May 10, 2010, 09:33:33 PM
Where are you looking to immigrate to?  Somewhere else in the Middle East, Europe, the US?

I would think you'd have more luck attempting to immigrate to a European country, but I don't know the specifics of the law.  The US isn't really hospitable towards immigrants in general right now, but Muslims especially since 9/11, and I'd think elsewhere in the Middle East you'd be just as likely to experience the same issues you are currently having in Egypt.

Perhaps try to track down an immigration lawyer to discuss the specifics with?
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: elliebean on May 10, 2010, 10:52:38 PM
Quote from: "philosoraptor"Where are you looking to immigrate to?  Somewhere else in the Middle East, Europe, the US?

I would think you'd have more luck attempting to immigrate to a European country, but I don't know the specifics of the law.  The US isn't really hospitable towards immigrants in general right now, but non-whites, non-christians, non-English-speakers and ESLers, gays, trans-anything, and the French especially since 9/11, and I'd think elsewhere in the Middle East you'd be just as likely to experience the same issues you are currently having in Egypt.

Perhaps try to track down an immigration lawyer to discuss the specifics with?

FIFY  :)
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Ex-Muslim on May 11, 2010, 03:06:11 AM
Quoteand I'd think elsewhere in the Middle East you'd be just as likely to experience the same issues you are currently having in Egypt.


you are allright.. except tunisia

i hope immigrate to euro countries .. norway . sweden . england . denmark . Finland .. etc


Quotenon-whites, non-christians, non-English-speakers and ESLers, gays, trans-anything, and the French especially since 9/11

ohhhhh . are you kidding ?
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: elliebean on May 11, 2010, 04:02:07 AM
Quote from: "Ex-Muslim"ohhhhh . are you kidding ?
Maybe exaggerating some. I don't want to scare away, but since then a lot of people here have become more vocal in their prejudices against certain groups. I suspect our media makes things appear worse than they are.
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Ex-Muslim on May 11, 2010, 04:37:24 AM
QuoteMaybe exaggerating some. I don't want to scare away, but since then a lot of people here have become more vocal in their prejudices against certain groups. I suspect our media makes things appear worse than they are.


I wish to live the day when the Humanity become Religion for all
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Heretical Rants on May 11, 2010, 05:36:13 AM
I have no idea how that sounds in your native language, nor do I know exactly what it means on the other side of Google translator, but I love you, dude.
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Ex-Muslim on May 11, 2010, 06:40:09 AM
Quote from: "Heretical Rants"I have no idea how that sounds in your native language, nor do I know exactly what it means on the other side of Google translator, but I love you, dude.

thanks dear

sure i love you too
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Tank on May 11, 2010, 10:14:56 AM
Quote from: "Ex-Muslim"
QuoteMaybe exaggerating some. I don't want to scare away, but since then a lot of people here have become more vocal in their prejudices against certain groups. I suspect our media makes things appear worse than they are.


I wish to live the day when the Humanity become Religion for all
I agree with you completely.
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Cecilie on May 11, 2010, 06:51:41 PM
Of course I would recommend Norway even though Sweden is more of an atheist country. Why is Sweden more non-religious than Norway though? Does anybody know?

Oh, and welcome!  :)
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: philosoraptor on May 11, 2010, 07:28:50 PM
I wish I had more helpful advice regarding immigration, but if you are serious about moving to Europe, I would begin by contacting an immigration lawyer in whichever country you'd like to live to find out what kind of paper work you will need-you could probably find one through an internet search.  Applying for a visa is most likely going to be the first step either way, but residency visas are usually harder to obtain than just a visiting visa, which can sometimes be extended once you are actually in the country.
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: elliebean on May 11, 2010, 08:24:10 PM
What about student visas?
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: philosoraptor on May 12, 2010, 12:10:21 AM
Quote from: "elliebean"What about student visas?

I think you'd have to have been accepted into an institution first to qualify, but it's worth looking into.
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Ex-Muslim on May 15, 2010, 06:00:13 AM
thanks dear philosoraptor

I have some troubles needs to solve before immigrate

But off course I'm serious .

By the way of Sweden
What's your opinion about what happened there ..(The attack on the Swedish painter)
[youtube:dmzivy1a]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTWbY5PNnJU[/youtube:dmzivy1a]
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Cecilie on May 15, 2010, 05:23:46 PM
<:)-|--<   <--- Look, Muhammed!
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: JoElite on June 21, 2010, 05:10:59 AM
Ex Muslim, you are very brave, i would suggest that you move to another country when you grow up, somewhere where Atheists arnt hated, here in Sweden we are 80% Atheists or Agnostics.
Aside from that, you seem to be a VERY realistic person and i cant imagine how hard it must be to live as an Atheist and having to act like a Muslim, im really sorry your in that position, and i wish the best of luck for you.. Its important however that you value your safety before belief, to put yourself in danger at your age for being rational, ISNT something you need.
I feel for you, hope youll find comfort in the forum :)
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: JoElite on June 21, 2010, 05:15:00 AM
Quote from: "Ex-Muslim"thanks dear philosoraptor

I have some troubles needs to solve before immigrate

But off course I'm serious .

By the way of Sweden
What's your opinion about what happened there ..(The attack on the Swedish painter)
[youtube:1v0f3kfe]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTWbY5PNnJU[/youtube:1v0f3kfe]

From me as a Swedish person it was a chock to see Muslims acting like this, but as you can see there are some Muslims that tries to calm the others down, as a personal experience the only reason anyone at the age 17 - are muslims here is because they dont really understand its a belief, so the future for swedish Islam looks to be slowly but surly destroyed, i think more and more Muslims are becoming Agnostics.
But im very upset about what they did to Lars Vilks.. i made a drawing of Muhammad to, me and my friends made a video about it to inspire peeps to draw him :P ( to show that when someone threatens freedom of speech with violence they are only going to make it worse for them selves )
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: The Black Jester on June 21, 2010, 05:07:51 PM
I wish to second the well-wishing and the admiration of your bravery.  I wish you the very best - and most of all I wish you safety and happiness.

Quote from: "Ex-Muslim"I wish to live the day when the Humanity become Religion for all

Brilliant. I concur.
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: Thumpalumpacus on June 21, 2010, 05:19:57 PM
Yes, best wishes on your road.  It will be long and hard; it's up to you to make it worthwhile.  Good luck!
Title: Re: Ex-Muslim
Post by: JoElite on June 21, 2010, 07:20:51 PM
As ive stated, Muslims in Sweden are becoming more and more agnostic, we need more ex-muslims over here to show Muslims that it is OK not to believe in Quran even if their parents say its a must, you will be protected by the law over here, and racism barely exists ( towards foreigners ) women are almost higher up in ''rank'' here then men, men do everything here to please a woman, so if your a woman then you will fit like a glove here, feminism movements are a big part of our culture, some times it even goes TO far.
foreigners here are more then happy to take care of each other, we seem to mix very well, too judge someone by their skin colors is more rare here then anywhere i know

... If you choose to come to Sweden then i suggest you firstly learn Swedish, secondly believe in your self, get a Job and DO NOT try to use your race as an excuse for your position, i see way to many foreigners do that, the reason why some humans succeed is NOT because of their skin color , work hard is the main critic, there is no shortcut.
BUt here we also support everyone, if your having a hard time with a sickness, or something the community will help you out til you get better, the community is very effective in helping persons that hasnt learned Swedish, or doesnt feel well enough to work... ive never seen a bum in my entire life, ive never seen someone having to beg for moneys on the street, lets sum it up with, failing here isnt an option, that comes with both good and bad but, the community wont let you fail...
here we value everyone the same, its a multi-cultural society, but Atheism/ Agnostisicm still rules the country.
We are a very peaceful country, and very happy to :)
the community pays a bit each to the medical care here, so insurance isnt needed, and in most cases its VERY cheap to get your leg fixed if its broken, or things like that.
We find more value in Sweden to make sure everyone succeeds, we wanna make sure that everyone here can live in peace.
Best part about sweden is, we have democracy!.