Title: Mysticism - your views
Post by: Chewbie Chan on April 17, 2010, 12:04:11 AM
Post by: Chewbie Chan on April 17, 2010, 12:04:11 AM
I'm curious what your views on mysticism are, in general.
If you don't have much of an opinion on the matter then try to think whether there is a place for mysticism in a secular outlook. If there was, what might a secular mystic be like?
If you don't have much of an opinion on the matter then try to think whether there is a place for mysticism in a secular outlook. If there was, what might a secular mystic be like?
Title: Re: Mysticism - your views
Post by: pinkocommie on April 17, 2010, 01:00:47 AM
Post by: pinkocommie on April 17, 2010, 01:00:47 AM
My opinion of mysticism is along the lines of the third definition listed on merriam-webster.com
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mysticism
Main Entry: mys·ti·cism
Pronunciation: \ˈmis-tə-ˌsi-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1735
1 : the experience of mystical union or direct communion with ultimate reality reported by mystics
2 : the belief that direct knowledge of God, spiritual truth, or ultimate reality can be attained through subjective experience (as intuition or insight)
3 a : vague speculation : a belief without sound basis b : a theory postulating the possibility of direct and intuitive acquisition of ineffable knowledge or power
I'm extremely skeptic of anyone who refers to themselves as a mystic because I think it's a vague term that can mean almost anything. I think that the nature of mysticism is entirely personal, so my belief or lack of belief regarding mysticism shouldn't matter in any way to someone who considers themselves a mystic. Considering part of being a mystic has to do with understanding information that can't be expressed, I think it's kind of impossible to distinguish between someone who honestly feels they have experienced something like that versus a liar or someone who wants to feel special or is otherwise faking. Even with the people who genuinely feel they have been imparted with some kind of ineffable knowledge, it seems like it would be difficult to distinguish between genuine occurrences of mysticism (if any) versus perfectly rationally explained occurrences that are mistaken for a mystic experience.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mysticism
Main Entry: mys·ti·cism
Pronunciation: \ˈmis-tə-ˌsi-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1735
1 : the experience of mystical union or direct communion with ultimate reality reported by mystics
2 : the belief that direct knowledge of God, spiritual truth, or ultimate reality can be attained through subjective experience (as intuition or insight)
3 a : vague speculation : a belief without sound basis b : a theory postulating the possibility of direct and intuitive acquisition of ineffable knowledge or power
I'm extremely skeptic of anyone who refers to themselves as a mystic because I think it's a vague term that can mean almost anything. I think that the nature of mysticism is entirely personal, so my belief or lack of belief regarding mysticism shouldn't matter in any way to someone who considers themselves a mystic. Considering part of being a mystic has to do with understanding information that can't be expressed, I think it's kind of impossible to distinguish between someone who honestly feels they have experienced something like that versus a liar or someone who wants to feel special or is otherwise faking. Even with the people who genuinely feel they have been imparted with some kind of ineffable knowledge, it seems like it would be difficult to distinguish between genuine occurrences of mysticism (if any) versus perfectly rationally explained occurrences that are mistaken for a mystic experience.
Title: Re: Mysticism - your views
Post by: Whitney on April 17, 2010, 01:05:25 AM
Post by: Whitney on April 17, 2010, 01:05:25 AM
I would view mysticism as something that falls in the spiritual category which means it isn't secular by definition.
However, I think what you are asking is probably more related to if a freethinker/skeptic can also be a mystic.
I guess one could but they'd need to arrive at their mysticism using reason (as flawed as I think their reason may be).
A friend of mine frequently points out that all skeptics have beliefs that aren't necessarily based on facts....it's hard for any one person to be entirely skeptical or rational on every view they may hold.
However, I think what you are asking is probably more related to if a freethinker/skeptic can also be a mystic.
I guess one could but they'd need to arrive at their mysticism using reason (as flawed as I think their reason may be).
A friend of mine frequently points out that all skeptics have beliefs that aren't necessarily based on facts....it's hard for any one person to be entirely skeptical or rational on every view they may hold.
Title: Re: Mysticism - your views
Post by: Chewbie Chan on April 17, 2010, 07:36:28 PM
Post by: Chewbie Chan on April 17, 2010, 07:36:28 PM
pinkocommie, I do think its practically impossible to distinguish between honest experience and deceptive pretense when it comes to mystical knowledge, whatever that is. To cut a long philosophical story short, I think this stems from there being human experiences that will not lend themselves to being usefully defined by a consistent logic. For various reasons people still try to force such experiences into a consistent logic, which creates an enormous amount of confusion.
Whitney, what do you imagine a mysticism arrived at through reason would be like?
Whitney, what do you imagine a mysticism arrived at through reason would be like?
Title: Re: Mysticism - your views
Post by: Whitney on April 17, 2010, 09:54:12 PM
Post by: Whitney on April 17, 2010, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: "Chewbie Chan"Whitney, what do you imagine a mysticism arrived at through reason would be like?
I have no clue.
Title: Re: Mysticism - your views
Post by: elliebean on April 17, 2010, 11:13:56 PM
Post by: elliebean on April 17, 2010, 11:13:56 PM
Douglas Adams sums up my view of mysticism pretty well in the following quote from Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency:
QuoteHe believed in a door. He must find that door. The door was the way to... to...
The Door was The Way.
Good.
Capital letters were always the best way of dealing with things you didn't have a good answer to.