Happy Atheist Forum

I was out with my family at a restaurant for dinner, we rarely ever go out for a meal and we all went went. Most of them are very religious and atheism is a taboo thing.

What happened when we got our meals was something I was not expecting. I started eating and then had it brought to my attention that we hadn't said grace. Oh Darn. I wasn't prepared to say anything and cause a huge fuss in public so I bowed my head and while they said grace, I thought about how much the overdue mobile bill was.

I could tell them sometime in private but shit would fly. Half of my family is okay with it and half wouldn't be. The half that are knew years ago.

What should be done in situations like this?  I don't know if I handled the situation well or not. I'd prefer not to participate in things like that, but I'd also like to not be disowned.

A good way to avoid the visibly awkward part is to not start eating till someone else does.

When I'm with family that does mealtime prayer (which they only do at holidays) I tilt my dead down and dodge any requests to say the prayer myself.  I only have this come up with my husband's family and figure that it's a small sign of respect to them when at their home for a holiday dinner and doesn't hurt me.

If it were something I had to do every day I think I'd just tell them I don't believe and pretending to pray makes me feel awkward.

That happens to me sometimes, too.

Quote from: "Whitney"When I'm with family that does mealtime prayer (which they only do at holidays) I tilt my dead down and dodge any requests to say the prayer myself.  I only have this come up with my husband's family and figure that it's a small sign of respect to them when at their home for a holiday dinner and doesn't hurt me.

This is generally what I do in a situation like that. It doesn't hurt and it shows respect. It's not even bending towards religion if you're not saying the prayer yourself.

Quote from: "Whitney"If it were something I had to do every day I think I'd just tell them I don't believe and pretending to pray makes me feel awkward.

That would be a hard choice, though. I mean, every day, you're the only one that's not praying?
Not that I have a better alternative, though.
This is why a family of religious people can be tough... I'm glad I'm hardly around my overly-religious family members.

But, anyway, my main piece of advice is come to expect it with certain family members. Just make it something to keep in mind when you're going to have dinner with whomever.

There is no shame in it.
But you should be open about it.
Talking is the best form of communication between people.........

So what if you fone bill is too high, you are an adult afterall. You can run up a bill as large as you like.

Quote from: "happynewyear"There is no shame in it.
But you should be open about it.

I wouldn't go shoulding people, not knowing eerything about their situation. In many cases, it really isn't worth it to 'come out' to some people, especially family.

My family is very religious and they pray before every meal (and on birthdays, and before road trips, etc.) I hold my loved ones' hands and bow my head a bit, but I don't close my eyes and I don't pray. And that works for me. I'm a non-confrontational type person. To me, it's not that big of a deal to be quiet for ten seconds with my head bowed for the sake of peace.  But everyone is different. In the end, it's up to you what you do  

I honestly cannot remember whether I conformed to mealtime prayer at school out of respect for the religious people around me or through fear of retribution from particularly hard-nosed teachers. Maybe it was a bit of both.

I've grown a bit of a tough shell these last few years. As much as I still try to avoid confrontation (diplomacy is great) there are times when I feel some people really need to be told how they are behaving and how it is affecting people around them.

I really dislike energy thieves. By that I mean people who steal conversations. Many simply don't know they do it. Christopher Hitchens for example. I like much of what he says but he doesn't ever give people much time to ask a question or elaborate in any way. He gives them just enough time to say two words then cuts them off. It is a profoundly annoying psychological tool and I'm very surprised no one has pointed it out to him. I don't think it is calculated, just something maybe he's grown into from years of debating theists. If I were interviewing him, I'd definitely point it out to him.

That is something I regularly (politely of course) have no issue pointing out to people who may display a propensity to steal a disproportionate amount of conversation time.

I had to tell a work colleague that they needed to wear deodorant recently. It was an uncomfortable conversation but I felt compelled. Our entire corner of the office smelt of his armpit odour. He'd obviously grown accustomed to his own musk but I'll be damned if I'm going be forced to become accustomed to it too. He looked hurt but dealt with it. There hasn't been an issue since.

If I was with a group of religious people about to have dinner, I'd have no issue in bowing my head and closing my eyes for ten seconds. Doesn't hurt anyone. I think situations like this need to be looked at from a numbers point of view. If one person is forcing everyone else to conform to their own standard, then I believe that to be a questionable ethic. As long, of course, an action by the majority does not cause physical or emotional harm to an individual in any way. So this mainly applies to social situations.

If I was having dinner with a bunch of atheists and one theist and the theist asked if we could all pray, then I'd have no issue telling them no. The majority should rule in that situation, regardless of who gets 'offended'.

Just my long-winded two cents

Depends on who's dinner it is, if they are cooking or paying the bill, don't make a fuss. If you are paying or cooking, tell them they can go right ahead but you wont be joining them, if you're splitting the bill, the latter will again suffice. I would have no problem with starting to eat while they performed their pre meal ritual, I never eat a tepid steak. I think if someone is treating you to a meal, then you are obliged to make sacrifices to keep them happy, if you find the sacrifices too great, simply decline their offer of a meal/roadtrip/whatever.

Also, about telling your family, if half of them would not accept me because of my religious beliefs, I would not accept them for their intolerance, I would not consider them a great loss to my life were they to disown me. This of course changes if you are dependant on them for food, shelter etc, in that case, don't go getting yourself kicked out of home.

Quote from: "The Doctor"I was out with my family at a restaurant for dinner, we rarely ever go out for a meal and we all went went. Most of them are very religious and atheism is a taboo thing.

What happened when we got our meals was something I was not expecting. I started eating and then had it brought to my attention that we hadn't said grace. Oh Darn. I wasn't prepared to say anything and cause a huge fuss in public so I bowed my head and while they said grace, I thought about how much the overdue mobile bill was.

I could tell them sometime in private but shit would fly. Half of my family is okay with it and half wouldn't be. The half that are knew years ago.

What should be done in situations like this?  I don't know if I handled the situation well or not. I'd prefer not to participate in things like that, but I'd also like to not be disowned.

I have said something to the effect of "thank you great hostess for the food I am about to receive." In a restaurant situation I would refer somehow to the chef. The point is to make it clear that while I share the feeling of gratitude my family does I am directing it at someone who actually did something as opposed to an invisible being that didn't.

Of course I don't mince words with my family, either. They don't care how their religion offends you so why go to so much trouble to hide your atheism to keep from offending them. If people truly love you they will love you as an atheist if they don't - well- better to get over it now.

I live in a very heavily christian home. My family prays for every meal. I would love to tell them I'm atheist, but I don't think I'd be allowed back into the house after that. Believe me, I know what you're going through, it's a lot easier to just go along with it.

Whenever I'm in a circumstance where I have to pretend to pray, I just let my mind wander.  No harm, no foul, since it doesn't mean anything to me either way.  Thankfully, it doesn't happen often.

Bowing the head is a sign of respect. When I visit my grandmother and she prays, I bow my head. I'm not praying or pretending to pray, I'm just allowing her to have her prayers in peace. It's a respect thing.

What that also means is that people I don't respect don't get the same treatment. If I were to dine with Glenn Beck, I'd probably just dig in.

For a long time now my brother, one of my cousins and I have spent the time during family gathering prayers making faces at each other.  I have recently learned that this is something a family tradition started by my great aunt (now passed away), and carried on by those in my family that are less religious.

^ This has been my approach. It's a good one, too, because anyone who 'catches' you is automatically complicit in not praying.  

Quote from: "Will"Bowing the head is a sign of respect. When I visit my grandmother and she prays, I bow my head. I'm not praying or pretending to pray, I'm just allowing her to have her prayers in peace. It's a respect thing.

What that also means is that people I don't respect don't get the same treatment. If I were to dine with Glenn Beck, I'd probably just dig in.

In the army platoons often eat together. Especialy in the field or in combat. Most military personel are religious so prayers are common but rarely a group event. On normal meals I just dug in but during holidays, ceremonies, and solem events I would sit quietly and patiently until prayers where done. I don't bow my head though it always felt like I was pretending to fit in. Which made me feel...dirty I guess.

Ah that reminds of my grandma complaining that I refuse to say a grace.
I know that these aren't comfortable situations but you should never be ashamed to be an atheist. I seriously hope that your family can get along with this

I grew up Catholic, so we have a standard prayer before meals that may or may not be one of the beads of the rosary.  

But... when the family begins to recite this prayer, I take my right fist and place it against my open left palm right at my sternum, like you might imagine Mr. Miyagi doing whilst meditating. I kind of mumble the words, and always mock my mom because she was taught to nod her head every time The Virgin Mary's name is mentioned (which I think is 3), so I do a pronounced head bang.

It's all in fun and makes mom laugh.