Happy Atheist Forum

In speculation of what could spark awareness in a computer we could gain a greater understanding of what makes us conscious.

We have evolved to feel. Feel pain to avoid injury. Feel fear to avoid danger. Feel emotionally distraught over "immoral" deeds threatening to society/survival of the species. We've even evolved to both communicate and understand these feelings better. All are survival instincts, that without our own occasional analysis we would still be unaware of how are feelings dictate our will from the subconscious. Everything we pursue in life is to capture a feeling, avoid another, or we're merely acting instinctively on a feeling. Feelings are the driving force behind the will, will gives us the power to direct our own thought, thus opening the gate to consciousness.

Likely, feelings alone aren't enough, they need to be mixed with a certain amount of intelligence. And I think modern computers have th intelligence part down. How could we simulate feelings to a machine? Is it possible to create feelings without creating life? If chemical releases in our brains act as guides for us, what could serve this purpose in a machine? Perhaps real feelings don't need to be produced at all but through some complex programming we can get in the ball park by crudely imitating how feelings work (ex, preset variables of what is desirable and undesirable).

Machines do not experience. They carry out functions and record data/histories. What are all experiences made up of? I think it's the product of a rapid translation of the incoming information into feelings. The reactions of feelings are the product of evolutionary tendencies now programmed in our genes, but also depend on processing past experiences. However, more so than the specifics of what happened in certain events we usually remember the feelings induced by those experiences.

So am I missing anything else that would be a requirement to gain consciousness?

Quote from: "Sophus"In speculation of what could spark awareness in a computer we could gain a greater understanding of what makes us conscious.

We could "speculate" that god could spark awareness. Then all you would have to do is pray.
What about yourself (if you are aware) what sparked awareness in you?

Sophus, happynewyear just got you big time. "Sparked"? Good lord... Explain yourself!

 

Quote from: "Sophus"In speculation of what could spark awareness in a computer we could gain a greater understanding of what makes us conscious.

We have evolved to feel. Feel pain to avoid injury. Feel fear to avoid danger. Feel emotionally distraught over "immoral" deeds threatening to society/survival of the species. We've even evolved to both communicate and understand these feelings better. All are survival instincts, that without our own occasional analysis we would still be unaware of how are feelings dictate our will from the subconscious. Everything we pursue in life is to capture a feeling, avoid another, or we're merely acting instinctively on a feeling. Feelings are the driving force behind the will, will gives us the power to direct our own thought, thus opening the gate to consciousness.

Likely, feelings alone aren't enough, they need to be mixed with a certain amount of intelligence. And I think modern computers have th intelligence part down. How could we simulate feelings to a machine? Is it possible to create feelings without creating life? If chemical releases in our brains act as guides for us, what could serve this purpose in a machine? Perhaps real feelings don't need to be produced at all but through some complex programming we can get in the ball park by crudely imitating how feelings work (ex, preset variables of what is desirable and undesirable).

Machines do not experience. They carry out functions and record data/histories. What are all experiences made up of? I think it's the product of a rapid translation of the incoming information into feelings. The reactions of feelings are the product of evolutionary tendencies now programmed in our genes, but also depend on processing past experiences. However, more so than the specifics of what happened in certain events we usually remember the feelings induced by those experiences.

So am I missing anything else that would be a requirement to gain consciousness?

To feel does it not imply that there is something ( entity )within the Conscious experience that is the recipient of the feeling? What I mean is if for example we say a chemical is responsible for feeling does that mean that chemical if it were in a dish by itself will also have feelings or does the chemicals create a feeling in another entity?

Quote from: "AlP"Sophus, happynewyear just got you big time. "Sparked"? Good lord... Explain yourself!

 :eek: By "sparked" I simply meant what causes it; where does one's awareness officially begin? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness

Quote from: "Wikipedia"Consciousness is the subject of much research in philosophy of mind, psychology, neuroscience, cognitive science, cognitive neuroscience and artificial intelligence. Issues of practical concern include how the presence of consciousness can be assessed in severely ill or comatose people;[8] whether non-human consciousness exists and if so how it can be measured; at what point in fetal development consciousness begins; and whether computers can achieve a conscious state.[9][10][11]

Quote from: "Sophus"By "sparked" I simply meant what causes it; where does one's awareness officially begin?

Consciousness requires a cause and a beginning? This sounds familiar...

Quote from: "AlP"

Quote from: "Sophus"By "sparked" I simply meant what causes it; where does one's awareness officially begin?

Consciousness requires a cause and a beginning? This sounds familiar... :)

-Ihateusernames

Quote from: "Ihateusernames"Human consciousness on the other hand is basically universally agreed upon to have a starting point.

I'm not familiar with this claim. If it is universally agreed upon that human consciousness had a starting point then I expect you will have no difficulty in providing a link or reference demonstrating this universal agreement. Link or reference please :)

I'll elaborate on this once I am home because I have some great sources of reference on this very subject. For now, I'll muse over the 'spark' bit :) I'm happy saying a cat is conscious but do they possess moral values? I'm not sure. My mums cat doesn't walk on the kitchen surfaces. This isn't because it has a sense of hygiene but because it is afraid of reprimand by my mum. It reacts to the water sprayer with great alacrity. ;)

Quote from: "AlP"

Quote from: "Ihateusernames"Human consciousness on the other hand is basically universally agreed upon to have a starting point.

I'm not familiar with this claim. If it is universally agreed upon that human consciousness had a starting point then I expect you will have no difficulty in providing a link or reference demonstrating this universal agreement. Link or reference please :)

Sure A|P! the pleasure is all mine!  http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/basically as requested!

 

-Ihateusernames

Random ideas about what consciousness is:

The state of being awake, i.e. not being asleep.
Awareness of ourselves with respect to others and our environment.
Feeling responsible for our actions.
When I ask you to reflect on the physical sensation in your feet caused by the shoes you are currently wearing, something will get derailed and stop reading.
Our undivided attention.
The thing that reflects on what we are doing.
Talking to ourselves internally.

We have form. The form contains organs which pick up sensations.  The sensations are converted into feeling in the brain, i.e hot/cold.  The sensations are converted into mental formations, i.e. good/bad - pleasant/unpleasant.  The form, sensations, feelings, and mental formations are combined with consciousness to create a sense of self.

Just some very old thoughts.

Quote from: "fdesilva"To feel does it not imply that there is something ( entity )within the Conscious experience that is the recipient of the feeling?

We are talking about the system as a whole so it doesn't make sense to speak of the feeler as a separate entity.

Quote from: "fdesilva"What I mean is if for example we say a chemical is responsible for feeling does that mean that chemical if it were in a dish by itself will also have feelings or does the chemicals create a feeling in another entity?

Chemical reactions...not just a chemical.  Our bodies and what makes us who we are is one gigantic chain of chemical reactions; in a way we are just big organic computers with engines.  Given this it make sense to assume that consciousness could exist in a non-biological computer and this topic is about not only how a computer might reach consciousness but how we'd know when it happened.

Basically it's about how to we create a real life C3PO or Data

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "fdesilva"To feel does it not imply that there is something ( entity )within the Conscious experience that is the recipient of the feeling?

We are talking about the system as a whole so it doesn't make sense to speak of the feeler as a separate entity.

Why would it not make sense. Lets say we have a consciouss computer, Now if we were to say it can see a monkey, Do we mean that each and every cmponent including its casing can see a monkey?
Or our we saying that an image of a monkey created by a camera has become the focal point of some set of components within?

Quote from: "notself"We have form. The form contains organs which pick up sensations.  The sensations are converted into feeling in the brain, i.e hot/cold.  The sensations are converted into mental formations, i.e. good/bad - pleasant/unpleasant.  The form, sensations, feelings, and mental formations are combined with consciousness to create a sense of self.

Just some very old thoughts.

Combined with consciousness? Not the components of it?

Quote from: "AlP"Random ideas about what consciousness is:

The state of being awake, i.e. not being asleep.
Awareness of ourselves with respect to others and our environment.
Feeling responsible for our actions.
When I ask you to reflect on the physical sensation in your feet caused by the shoes you are currently wearing, something will get derailed and stop reading.
Our undivided attention.
The thing that reflects on what we are doing.
Talking to ourselves internally.

Is there a way we could make a computer follow a stream of internal "thought" without having a will of its own? It seems we do so because we will it, then again we kind of think whether we want to or not because we don't have freewill.

If a machine had desire and feelings I think counsciousness could be acheived.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.calico.ie%2Fblog%2Fuploaded_images%2Firobot-775093.jpg&hash=bd8e01bbe43b2d1ecae6ace439069fe49a33649a)

Quote from: "fdesilva"

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "fdesilva"To feel does it not imply that there is something ( entity )within the Conscious experience that is the recipient of the feeling?

We are talking about the system as a whole so it doesn't make sense to speak of the feeler as a separate entity.

Why would it not make sense. Lets say we have a consciouss computer, Now if we were to say it can see a monkey, Do we mean that each and every cmponent including its casing can see a monkey?
Or our we saying that an image of a monkey created by a camera has become the focal point of some set of components within?

The system as a whole sees the monkey.

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "fdesilva"Why would it not make sense. Lets say we have a consciouss computer, Now if we were to say it can see a monkey, Do we mean that each and every cmponent including its casing can see a monkey?
Or our we saying that an image of a monkey created by a camera has become the focal point of some set of components within?

The system as a whole sees the monkey.

If we replace the camera with a bit stream that is a recording of a camera output of a monkey, will the system cease to be conscious?

I give up...

Quote from: "fdesilva"If we replace the camera with a bit stream that is a recording of a camera output of a monkey, will the system cease to be conscious?

If I read one more word written by you, I fear, I will cease to be conscious.