Happy Atheist Forum

God or religion, which are atheists more unhappy with?



Yrreg

Quote from: "Yrreg"God or religion, which are atheists more unhappy with?



Yrreg

Welcome Back Yrreg.  I think last time we had this misunderstanding too.  We can't be unhappy (or happy or angry or mad or any other emotion) with the tooth fairy because it isn't real ... just like your god.

I'm displeased with religion :animeyay: .

neither. what since does it make to throw a bunch of completely different individuals into a huge generalization?

what tool do rational theists prefer?
screw driver or a hammer?

Likewise (late edit: some of) the above, count me extremely unhappy with religion (and dogma in general) due to the harm it can entice others to do because of it.  As for the concepts of the gods I've heard talked about, they are so laughably implausible (or irrelevant even if amusingly carved in the case of the ones like tikis and totems) there's no reason for concern of any kind, happy, unhappy or otherwise, just like with the tooth fairy or generic garden fairies or pick your other mythical creature.

I'm more unhappy with some religions than others and the idea of god doesn't bother me just what some people do with that idea.

I don't think you are going to get an across the board answer on this one....atheist, after all, isn't a religion and therefore is free of the dogma that would produce boxed answers.

I'm unhappy about some religion because it is a real thing that can and does have unpleasant consequences on my life and on the lives of others.  I am not unhappy with God because, as something that doesn't exist, it has no consequence on my life or anyone else's.  Belief in God exists, God probably doesn't.

God does not exist, so obviously religion would be what bothers me. <3

Quote from: "Yrreg"God or religion, which are atheists more unhappy with?



Yrreg

God..............no religion.............no god...............no religion.............no god.............no religion............no god............no religion..........no god..............no religion..............no god................no religion..............no god..............no religion..............no god.............no religion..........

Quote from: "LoneMateria"Welcome Back Yrreg.  I think last time we had this misunderstanding too.  We can't be unhappy (or happy or angry or mad or any other emotion) with the tooth fairy because it isn't real ... just like your god.

Exactly. Being unhappy with God is like being unhappy with Darth Vader.

Religions are the ones that have exploited the idea of god, so I would say that they really bother me. Gods, since they do not exist, would nor cause any harm. The problem is religious people have made them "say and do" things that have affected billions. It is the hierarchy of the churches around the word that has made gods what they are today, beings that kill you and send you to hell, but they love you! And always need money.

What makes me unhappy, if I were to actually take it to heart, is that there are people whose lives are so empty and meaningless and devoid of original thought that they buy into all this sky-god-resurrected-Jesus rubbish. Now that's just sad.

I've already answered my bit about imaginary being, but how about religion?  Well I think most days believers are more angry at religion then atheists.  I know I personally view religion as an annoyance and only become angry at it when it is used to justify atrocities and blatantly immoral behavior.  I think most believers have the same view like when Christians look at Islam, or when Protestants look at Catholics.  All believers tolerate one another to an extent, but become outraged when say a protestant looks at the catholic churches covering up child molesters, or when catholics see protestant children dying because their parents believe in faith healing instead of traditional medicine, or when Christians see Jihads being declared by Islamic Priests, or when Islams see Christians attempting to control governments and then advocating invading Islamic countries (such as for Gog and Magog like our last president).  The point is whatever religion a believer is that person typically gets angry at opposing religions from time to time.  Like the old adage goes atheists believe in one less god then Christians, well something similar can be said in regards to religions, an atheist is a person who gets angry at one more religion then a believer.  Why is this and what makes everyones religion wrong regardless?

Religion devalues human life (mostly women but often times minorities).  It asserts that we are pathetic dirty beings who deserve eternal punishment for finite crimes (such as being born look up baptism if you don't believe me) and even "thought crimes"(such as not believing in Jesus or Allah).  It tries to stop and reverse scientific progress but most followers of it won't hesitate to reap the benefits.  It is often times used to justify atrocities.  It is the biggest spreader of misinformation in human history.  Those who speak for it are allowed to unscrupulously declare anything they want and do not have to defend themselves when proven wrong.  Followers of it are often encouraged to suspend their critical thinking skills and submit to it an all areas of their life because it claims to be infallible.  It claims the moral high ground when clearly it's up to its ears in its own shit.  It tells people to be satisfied with what they have and know and not strive to have or learn more.  Religion is one argument away from a holy war on any given day.  It allows people to to avoid responsibility for their actions, have you ever wondered why there are so many born again Christians on death row?  It turns people into hypocrites.  It is a barbaric and immoral system of profit that exists because of ignorance, superstition, an and plain old every day bullying.  It is a blight of our society and needs to go the way of polio.

I'd say I'm unhappy with most religions, as it brainwashes people into following a certain lifestyle and deprives them of independent thought.

And being unhappy with God is like being unhappy with a minotaur, as both are fictional beasts quick to anger and slow to reason.

I can see that since atheists don't believe in God's existence, logically they should claim to be neither happy nor unhappy with God.

On the other hand, since religious people do exist and atheists know they do exist, atheists can be and should be either happy or unhappy with religious people, hence with religion.

And they certainly are unhappy with religion or concretely with religious people, unless they are being dishonest and say that they are not unhappy with religion or religious people.


In regard to God, if atheists were administered a lie detector test, and asked the question whether they are unhappy with God or not, if they say dishonestly that they have no emotional happy sentiment or unhappy sentiment with God, the lie detector could show them to be lying -- what do you think?



Yrreg

QuoteIn regard to God, if atheists were administered a lie detector test, and asked the question whether they are unhappy with God or not, if they say dishonestly that they have no emotional happy sentiment or unhappy sentiment with God, the lie detector could show them to be lying -- what do you think?

and what would this accomplish? if the religion ALL atheists (i say all rather than some or even a majority) are unhappy with stems from this god/gods, why wouldnt at least a slight spike come up in the lie detector test?
and when it does what does it prove?

QuoteIn regard to God, if theists were administered a lie detector test, and asked the question whether they believe in God or not, if they say dishonestly that they have belief in God, the lie detector could show them to be lying -- what do you think?

what if we spin it that way?

Quote from: "Yrreg"I can see that since atheists don't believe in God's existence, logically they should claim to be neither happy nor unhappy with God.

Then why were you asking a yes/no question?

Quote from: "Yrreg"On the other hand, since religious people do exist and atheists know they do exist, atheists can be and should be either happy or unhappy with religious people, hence with religion.

Wait what ... seriously?  False dichotomy much?  

Quote from: "Yrreg"And they certainly are unhappy with religion or concretely with religious people, unless they are being dishonest and say that they are not unhappy with religion or religious people.

You have brought generalizing to a whole new level with this statement.  Not only are you generalizing atheists but then you are generalizing theists as well.  You are trying to make it sound like there is only one kind of theist and that we are being dishonest if we say we are not unhappy with them.  If memory serves this is the type of crap that got you banned the first time around.  I think you are just looking for a reason to vilify atheists and are trying to say we hate the rest of the world.  You are wrong.  All of your statements here are wrong.  Myself and others have tried to point this out and it seems like your response is, "Yes I understand that but ..." and then you put the same thing forward again.  

Quote from: "Yrreg"In regard to God, if atheists were administered a lie detector test, and asked the question whether they are unhappy with God or not, if they say dishonestly that they have no emotional happy sentiment or unhappy sentiment with God, the lie detector could show them to be lying -- what do you think?

We just explained we can't be emotional with a made up being.  This statement makes no sense in that regard.  Let me rephrase it and show you:

Quote from: "Fixed"In regard to Papa Smurf, if you were administered a lie detector test, and asked the question whether you are unhappy with Papa Smurf or not, if you say dishonestly that you have no emotional happy sentiment or unhappy sentiment with Papa Smurf, the lie detector could show you to be lying -- what do you think?

Does that really make sense?  Are you honestly able to feel any feelings toward Papa Smurf?

Quote from: "Yrreg"On the other hand, since religious people do exist and atheists know they do exist, atheists can be and should be either happy or unhappy with religious people, hence with religion.

Or they could be indifferent...kinda like I'm neither happy or unhappy with people who are professional chess fans.

QuoteAnd they certainly are unhappy with religion or concretely with religious people, unless they are being dishonest and say that they are not unhappy with religion or religious people.

So, either atheists fit into your little box of what they ought to be unhappy about otherwise they are being dishonest?  

Try this on for size, all theists certainly are unhappy with gay people, unless they are being dishonest and say that they are not unhappy with gay people.

QuoteIn regard to God, if atheists were administered a lie detector test, and asked the question whether they are unhappy with God or not, if they say dishonestly that they have no emotional happy sentiment or unhappy sentiment with God, the lie detector could show them to be lying -- what do you think?

I seriously have no emotional reaction to the word "god."

btw....what happened to the first part of your stated worldview, did you drop it in the hallway?

Of course if infants are also, as alleged by some atheists, atheists by default state, then they cannot be unhappy or happy with God and religion, and no lie detector can be intelligently employed on them.

Now with adult atheists who are literate they can manipulate concepts and words to convince people about their being indifferent since they profess not to know God to exist or to not exist, in effect for them there is no God.

However, as emotional entities atheists do have emotional reaction to words which a lie detector can pick up and the inventor of the lie detector can interpret as truthful or untruthful or what we call a lie.



Yrreg

Religion and God are both the same, can have one withough the other. Many theist say that they don't believe in Religion but that they believe in God. This people are fooling themselves or just feel that by separeting themselve from the rest of the " BOBY " it makes everthing O'K. Well, Religion has done so much harm and committed so many criminals acts that many don't want to be associated with Religion so they want to negate Religion. The problem with this is the the head of Religion is none other than GOD and in any Religion were this GOD is found there are so many horrendeous criminal acts. This question can't be a separate question so it should state " how unhappy are atheist with the Religious-God on planet earth ? ", or " how unhappy are atheist with believers that keep on re-enforcing this Religious-God from generations through generations ? ". DON'T BE AFRAID TO BE A GOOD PERSON EVEN IF THERES A PRICE TO PAID. Asks the right questions............................................................

Quote from: "Yrreg"Of course if infants are also, as alleged by some atheists, atheists by default state, then they cannot be unhappy or happy with God and religion, and no lie detector can be intelligently employed on them.

Now with adult atheists who are literate they can manipulate concepts and words to convince people about their being indifferent since they profess not to know God to exist or to not exist, in effect for them there is no God.

However, as emotional entities atheists do have emotional reaction to words which a lie detector can pick up and the inventor of the lie detector can interpret as truthful or untruthful or what we call a lie.



Yrreg

either i dont get your point, or you need hurry and get to it. i dont get why it matters if people have emotional attachments to words.
and i agree a lie is a lie. but if i was asked do i believe in allah, and i say no. but the lie detector spikes and says i lied.... now what? am i now the worst muslim ever? what is your point?

QuoteReligion and God are both the same, can have one withough the other. Many theist say that they don't believe in Religion but that they believe in God. This people are fooling themselves or just feel that by separeting themselve from the rest of the " BOBY " it makes everthing O'K.

i disagree. there are many religions that have no deity. also pagan norsemen went viking back in the day. but they kind of stopped that. you dont really hear of people harmed by paganism now a days.

religon isnt evil... just people. and there are "evil" people everywhere. there are good christians and bad atheists. there are good muslims and buddhist that touch little boys.
i will agree that religon is one thing that retards use to act retarded. it has sprouted some very nasty things. but at the same time a good individual is a good person for whatever reason. regardless of what they believe.

Quote from: "G-Roll"Good stuff

^ Well said.

I'm just gonna go ahead and be a smartass here.

A "lie detector" is just an incorrect word for a polygraph machine.
Also, polygraphs are not generally accepted as court evidence, because the average success rate of a polygraph machine is about 61%. This is due to how a polygraph works. A polygraph examines the blood pressure, pulse rate, respiration and skin conductivity. None of these factors can tell for sure if a person is lying. The validity of a polygraph test can be influenced by a multitude of factors, such as sleep deprivation, stress, location, and even the subject's mental state .

Lie detectors have an average success rate of 61%!

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnotallbits.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F09%2Fthe_more_you_know2.jpg&hash=73f33df2749bab7685324e1325b7c860e975730f)

QuoteLie detectors have an average success rate of 61%!

DONT TELL MORRY POVITCH THAT!!

maybe its just me but i watch that show when i need a warm fuzzy. there is something about hearing "you are not the father" that makes me so happy for that poor guy sweating on stage. its almost tear inducing to watch him slip from the grasps of that hoochie momma and be free.

Quote from: "G-Roll"

QuoteLie detectors have an average success rate of 61%!

DONT TELL MORRY POVITCH THAT!!

maybe its just me but i watch that show when i need a warm fuzzy. there is something about hearing "you are not the father" that makes me so happy for that poor guy sweating on stage. its almost tear inducing to watch him slip from the grasps of that hoochie momma and be free.

Funny, I get the same warm, fuzzy feeling at the same time, but for a different reason; I'm so glad the poor child doesn't have to grow up with a tool like that for a father. :eek:

^^^^^
now that would be worth watching...  

Wouldn't that be the epic 'switched at birth!' shows?  I remember seeing one where one mom gave her baby up for adoption, then found out her daughter was switched at birth and tried to get legal custody of her bio child that another family was raising like 3 years after she gave up what she thought was her child.  I remember lots of shouting and cursing and tears...oh the tears.  Aren't those shows fake a good part of the time?

There are many atheists who couldn´t care less about either.

They just don´t tend to be quite as active on forums such as this one.

I was going to try and nudge the thread back toward the topic at hand.  But Yrreg doesn't seem like he wants to address what we all put up.  So more about M.P..  The people on his show are often times out of their f**king minds.  I've seen this nasty woman who brought 9 guys on the show saying any of them could be the father, none were it, then she came back on a few months later with another group of 9 guys and none of them were it ... I couldn't believe that many guys would sleep with her in the first place >.<.  But there was one where this blatantly manipulative 80 year old grandmother was faking being nice to the woman who thought her grandson was the father ... then hopped up on stage and started dancing when he wasn't.  Some people are just f**ked up.  And they just don't understand that America is laughing at them for being so f**ked up.

QuoteI've seen this nasty woman who brought 9 guys on the show saying any of them could be the father, none were it, then she came back on a few months later with another group of 9 guys and none of them were it

i think i saw that one. or maybe it was one just like it....

i swear im not a MP fan. i truely cant stand those cheesy talk shows. but i do love the baby daddy episodes.

QuoteAnd they just don't understand that America is laughing at them for being so f**ked up

in some way i figure they have to know. or perhaps its just there 15 mins of fame?

QuoteI was going to try and nudge the thread back toward the topic at hand. But Yrreg doesn't seem like he wants to address what we all put up. So more about M.P..

MP the new shampoo?

Quote from: "Heretical Rants"There are many atheists who couldn´t care less about either.

They just don´t tend to be quite as active on forums such as this one.

I hardly care about either, .  For the most part, worrying about god or religion (other than how it affects politics) has kinda faded off my radar over the years.

Definitely religion!  If a god did exist, the one good thing we could say about him is that s/he  doesn't show up at your bloody door at 10am Sunday morning to tell you about himself.

Quote from: "url=http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=61972&sid=9722f29a57f0c092b35fa3cb97c7786f#p61972]Yrreg[/url]"]

Of course if infants are also, as alleged by some atheists, atheists by default state, then they cannot be unhappy or happy with God and religion, and no lie detector can be intelligently employed on them [ I should have added: because they still don't have any acquaintance with God ].

Now with adult atheists who are literate they can manipulate concepts and words to convince people about their being indifferent since they profess not to know God to exist or to not exist, in effect for them there is no God.

However, as emotional entities atheists do have emotional reaction to words which a lie detector can pick up and the inventor of the lie detector can interpret as truthful or untruthful or what we call a lie.

This is a website with the name Happy Atheist Forum, there is also a website with the name Friendly Atheist.

Such websites show that atheists want to be known as happy people and friendly people.

What about atheists also hosting a website with the name of peaceful atheists, or polite atheists, or good atheists, or atheists for a good God (good to atheists) and good religion (good to atheists)?


You are angry at me?


Now, you also are defensive about not being identified as angry atheists or that you are angry at God and at Christians.

I think perhaps the best way to describe atheists is that they have grudges against God and against Christians specifically and religious peoples generally.

In that respect they are unhappy with God and religion, and I tend to see more unhappy with religion than with God, which I can see also that it is because religious peoples give God a bad PR.


No matter that they insist that they cannot be angry against God because they don't believe He exists, but they do admit to being angry at Christians because Christians annoy them at least if nothing else.


How about I say that atheists are emotionally angry at God but claim to have no logical grounds to be angry at God because they claim to not believe that God exists -- and therefore they can't be logically angry with someone they don't believe to be existing?

So, the distinction between emotional anger and logical anger might be a useful way to understand why Christians get the picture of atheists as being angry at God, i.e., only emotionally but not logically.


Wherefore the question now is, Why are atheists emotionally angry at God?

Because He represents everything that they don't like or are unhappy with in life?



Yrreg

Quote from: "Yrreg"Wherefore the question now is, Why are atheists emotionally angry at God?

Because He represents everything that they don't like or are unhappy with in life?

Yrreg

No atheists are angry at God. Some are angry at certain God-believers. I am not angry at God, nor am I angry at Santa Claus because I didn't get anything from him for Christmas last year.

Quote from: "Yrreg"Wherefore the question now is, Why are atheists emotionally angry at God?

Way to ignore everything that everyone said in light of your preconceived notion.

Quote from: "Yrreg"This is a website with the name Happy Atheist Forum, there is also a website with the name Friendly Atheist.

Such websites show that atheists want to be known as happy people and friendly people.

It shows that there are some atheists who prefer to hang out with other atheist who aren't jerks.

[/quote]What about atheists also hosting a website with the name of peaceful atheists, or polite atheists, or good atheists, or atheists for a good God (good to atheists) and good religion (good to atheists)?[/quote]
What about them?

QuoteYou are angry at me?

I'm not, but I can predict from your obvious persecution complex that I might be soon if you continue with this sort of drivel. Where in any of the posts in this thread has anyone expressed anger toward you or anyone without being called on it by other members?

QuoteNow, you also are defensive about not being identified as angry atheists or that you are angry at God and at Christians.

Says you. I could give two shits if I'm labeled as angry or not. It doesn't change anything. Nevermind the fact that a) there is no god to be angry about, b) I'm not angry at christians, and c) your original question didn't mention christians or christianity and I answered only the question you asked, albeit rather dismissively.

QuoteI think perhaps the best way to describe atheists is that they have grudges against God and against Christians specifically and religious peoples generally.

I think you are stretching the definition of the word "think".... and "best" and "describe" and "atheists" and "have" and "grudges".... do you have a dictionary? Nothing you've posted so far reveals even a rudimentary comprehension of any of the concepts within anyone else's posts. I suppose you could just be skipping over them and responding to what you expect them to say. Imagine that.

QuoteIn that respect they are unhappy with God and religion, and I tend to see more unhappy with religion than with God, which I can see also that it is because religious peoples give God a bad PR.

No, you give religious people bad PR. If anyone should be unhappy it's them. Unfortunately, too many of them are too busy looking for excuses to be unhappy with us.

QuoteNo matter that they insist that they cannot be angry against God because they don't believe He exists, but they do admit to being angry at Christians because Christians annoy them at least if nothing else.

At most, we admit to being annoyed, then. Some of us. Sometimes.

QuoteHow about I say that atheists are emotionally angry at God but claim to have no logical grounds to be angry at God because they claim to not believe that God exists -- and therefore they can't be logically angry with someone they don't believe to be existing?

Say whatever you want; it won't make it true.

QuoteSo, the distinction between emotional anger and logical anger might be a useful way to understand why Christians get the picture of atheists as being angry at God, i.e., only emotionally but not logically.

The only good way to understand why *some* christians "get the picture of atheists as being angry at God," is to realise that many of *those* christians are ignorant bigots who can't be bothered with facts.

QuoteWherefore the question now is, Why are atheists emotionally angry at God?

It's been pretty well established here that we're not. If you don't see that, it's because you don't want to. Why are you so invested in persisting in this falsehood (ie. "lies")?

QuoteBecause He represents everything that they don't like or are unhappy with in life?

Thank you, Glenn Beck, for ending a statement with a question mark so you can't be held to own up to it when you're proven wrong.

So...is it okay if I ban this idiot again? it's not like he's actually paying attention to anything anyone says....

Well, if you atheists here insist that you are not unhappy, not angry, have no grudges, etc.

I am happy for you.



What about non-atheists not happy with atheists in the US?


A poll made by a professor of sociology at the University of Minnesota came up with the finding that Americans hold atheists to be the most distrusted minority in the US.

What do you think, isn't that tantamount to Americans who are non-atheists being generally unhappy with atheists in their society?



And why should I care about atheists and non-atheists being unhappy with God and with each other?

I am curious about the issue; and besides it is a good study to come to ways and means whereby everyone would be happy with everyone else, including with Gold or no God.

Isn't that the purpose of every human whether atheist or non-atheist whatever, to be happy or to have a happy life?



Yrreg

Yrreg: If you're about promoting togetherness and reconciliation and kumbaya and all that, and you have facts to support that theists are generally unhappy about atheists, why don't you go bug them on some of their websites and see how far you get with that?

Quote from: "Whitney"So...is it okay if I ban this idiot again? it's not like he's actually paying attention to anything anyone says....

I'm cool either way, as long as it stays in this thread. I can see how things could get mucked up if this were to turn into another Typist-type situation, where every thread suddenly becomes about him, but so far it's been a little amusing to me.  :blush:

Quote from: "Whitney"So...is it okay if I ban this idiot again? it's not like he's actually paying attention to anything anyone says....

If memory serves this was what he got banned for in the first place.  He doesn't seem to be interested in a discussion or a conversation he just seems like he wants to assert things and ignore anything and everything anyone says that goes against it.  He didn't learn from his temp ban.  I think we've all humored him long enough.  Unless Yrreg really wants to hold a discussion I think he needs to go.  Sorry Yrreg, I really would enjoy a discussion with you, but just saying the same thing over and over and ignoring everyone else isn't a discussion.  If I thought you would actually participate in any discussion i'd vote for you to stay ... but I don't see that happening.

Quote from: "Yrreg"the most distrusted minority in the US.

Scientology now holds that spot....

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"

Quote from: "LoneMateria"Welcome Back Yrreg.  I think last time we had this misunderstanding too.  We can't be unhappy (or happy or angry or mad or any other emotion) with the tooth fairy because it isn't real ... just like your god.

Exactly. Being unhappy with God is like being unhappy with Darth Vader.

I'm unhappy with Darth Vader! He was very unpleasant to a great number of rebels.  

And what is rubbing atheists the wrong way, that I am into studying ways and means whereby atheists and theists can live together without being unhappy with each other?


There is the proverbial antagonism between dogs and cats, and if I were a dog or a cat and you being dogs or cats keep telling me that there is no antagonism or there is antagonism, but I keep on studying the antagonism, you will ban me from your forum of dogs or of cats?

Well, since you are atheists and not theists, or dogs and not cats or cats and not dogs, and this is your forum, I cannot prevent you from banning me, can I?



I will still say that to my impression atheists are not happy with God and religion, in effect not happy with Christians in the concrete in the West which happens to be what I call Christendom.

And contrariwise, Christians are not happy with atheists in their midst in the US, or Americans generally are not happy with atheists in America.


Now if atheists find themselves in an Islamic society like in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, would you be happy or unhappy with the Muslims in your midst or you being in the midst of Muslims?

And if you are indeed unhappy for being in a Muslim society, don't you try to do something about it, so that you will not be unhappy or Muslims not unhappy with you, so that you all atheists and Muslims in the Muslim society where you find yourselves can be happy and do live and interact happily with Muslims and Muslims with you, though you are in their society, i.e., of Muslims?




Anyway, thanks for my not being so far banned or banned again, this is a sign that the atheists the powers that be here are more tolerant now toward me than before.

That is good for all of us, to be happy together.




Yrreg

Quote from: "Yrreg"I will still say that to my impression atheists are not happy with God and religion, in effect not happy with Christians in the concrete in the West which happens to be what I call Christendom.

Why do you ignore what is said and why do you insist that atheists think God is real?  I think that is part of the problem.  You have decided that atheists are liars, much as many other Christians do.  You probably won't read or retain or have comprehension of what I'm going to say here - atheists don't believe in God, nor do atheists think God is real.  

Atheists are unhappy with religion and people who follow religion because religious people will not leave us alone.  Some religious people will  never leave us alone until all of their religious beliefs are made into law and we are all required to follow them.  You think that is OK because you think that your religion is correct, but guess what?  Everyone else also thinks their religion is correct.

Atheists are unhappy with religion because many of us have to live in the closet to protect our jobs and families.  We are unhappy that bigotry against atheists is accepted by so many.  We are unhappy with religion for all the children who are forced to die for their parents beliefs.  

Quote from: "Yrreg"And contrariwise, Christians are not happy with atheists in their midst in the US, or Americans generally are not happy with atheists in America.

Yes, this is a symptom of religious bigotry.  I believe the religious bigotry comes from the misinformation spread about atheists.  For instance, many Christians believe that atheists think God is real but hate God.  Also, many Christians think atheists are mean and evil.  It is also likely because it's legal to make hate speech against atheists and thus, Christians do.

Quote from: "Yrreg"Now if atheists find themselves in an Islamic society like in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, would you be happy or unhappy with the Muslims in your midst or you being in the midst of Muslims?

And if you are indeed unhappy for being in a Muslim society, don't you try to do something about it, so that you will not be unhappy or Muslims not unhappy with you, so that you all atheists and Muslims in the Muslim society where you find yourselves can be happy and do live and interact happily with Muslims and Muslims with you, though you are in their society, i.e., of Muslims?

The only real options for atheists in a Muslim society are for them to hide that they are not believers, to leave, or to be punished by that society, sometimes with the death penalty.  Inferring that a Christian society is better than a Muslim society because American Christian society doesn't legally kill atheists is about the same as saying rape is just peachy because murder is worse.

In Uganda, Christians are trying to legally kill homosexuals.

You know very well that a person cannot survive as an open atheist in a Muslim country.  To me, it looks like you are slyly suggesting that we behave as we would as atheists in a Muslim country - get out, shut up, or get punished.

I'm still pretty sure the OP won't read this, so I'm not sure why I bothered.

...Yes, Kylyssa, but why are you so ANGRY with God?  

That was a well thought out response.  I was going to respond, but judging from this person's past posts and the fact that they've already been banned once, it seemed like an exercise in futility.  I'm glad you responded, though.   Apathy is counterproductive.

Yrreg, dogs who pay attention to what the cats say and don't force feed them dog biscuits don't get kicked off the cat forum.

Quote from: "Whitney"Yrreg, dogs who pay attention to what the cats say and don't force feed them dog biscuits don't get kicked off the cat forum.

Owned.

Quote from: "pinkocommie"...Yes, Kylyssa...That was a well thought out response.

Yeah, she does that.  :drool

I'm still pretty sure the OP won't read this, so I'm not sure why I bothered.

Yes, I read you, and no I don't say that you are lying in saying that for you God is not real.

There are all kinds of non-realities, and God is a very special non-reality for atheists, one which they write so much about to deny that He does exist as the moon and your nose exist, of course in His own manner, but no less real as you and I and our nose and the moon and the sun are real.


Please don't bring in lying in our exchange of views, we are just exchanging views about atheists being unhappy with God and with believers in God.

If you don't share my observation, you just say that I get it all wrong, even though I insist that my observation is real.

No one is accusing no one of lying, not me of you and I am certain not you of me.

---------------

You give one reason why you are not happy with believers in God, because they want you to observe what they observe owing to their faith in God.

Is it really that bad, that they want you to observe what they do observe owing to their faith in God, i.e., knowledge that God really exists?

Suppose you be specific and itemize concretely what they don't tolerate you doing or not doing owing to your not accepting God as real.

Okay, so they don't vote you to government elective offices because they don't want people who don't believe as they do in God, to be occupants of government offices, isn't that totally within their political rights?

You do the same, don't vote for God believers.

Now, what other things do they insist, mind you, insist that you also observe to do or to not do as they who believe in God's really existing?

Like for examples, no stealing, no murdering, no making a racket at night in the neighborhood when people are trying to get some sleep for tomorrow?



Yrreg

Quote from: "Yrreg"God or religion, which are atheists more unhappy with?

I am apathetic.

Quote from: "Yrreg"You give one reason why you are not happy with believers in God,

Right now... You. Is that a good enough reason?

Quote from: "Yrreg"Please don't bring in lying in our exchange of views, we are just exchanging views about atheists being unhappy with God and with believers in God.

I note that you persist in saying atheists have a problem with God, even though we keep telling you that we don't think God is real.  So, explain to me your big beef with Zeus and unicorns, why you are unhappy with them.

Quote from: "Yrreg"You give one reason why you are not happy with believers in God, because they want you to observe what they observe owing to their faith in God.

Is it really that bad, that they want you to observe what they do observe owing to their faith in God, i.e., knowledge that God really exists?

When they burn books, let their children die without medical treatment, plot to murder police officers at funerals, oppress minorities, and fire us for not believing as they do - yes, it is that bad.

Have you read the Bible????
If you have, you should know why people wouldn't want those rules forced on them.  The Bible contains rules requiring a disobedient and drunk sons be stoned to death, that women who are raped and then not married to the rapist may be stoned to death, that slaves may be kept, that homosexuals should be killed, that women are lesser beings than men, that people be punished for eating seafood or wearing wool mixed with cotton, and other such crazy and/or blood-thirsty rules.  

Don't try to tell me the rules are not there.  American Christians went to Uganda to support their Christian concept of a law which would have homosexuals put to death and put anyone who does not inform on a homosexual put in prison.  That's what Christian laws can look like when fundamentalist Christians get hold of the government.

What if Muslims, knowing that their version of God really exists were to force you to follow their beliefs?  They believe they are right just as much as you.  You believe a lot of the same things, too.  Your holy books both call for homosexuals, adulterers, and certain victims of rape to be killed by stoning.  Your holy books both call for women to cover their hair.  Your holy books are both about the Abrahamic God.  Since you agree with so much you'd be comfortable having Muslim rulers force you to follow their religious rules, right?

Quote from: "Yrreg"Suppose you be specific and itemize concretely what they don't tolerate you doing or not doing owing to your not accepting God as real.

For starters, they don't tolerate admissions of being an atheist.  Even if you accidentally are found out to be an atheist, they are not OK with it.  I have been spat on and beaten for getting outed as an atheist (not by my own doing) and I have received death threats and threats of rape from Christians who disagreed with things I've written from an atheist perspective.  I have had the window in my kitchen broken in and my car vandalized by Christians after I was outed as an atheist.  One Christian woman decided to terrorize me with threatening phone calls at home and at work and said such lovely things as "I pray for you to die you" and "your husband can't protect you from the will of God."  This went on for over two months.

Basically, fundamentalist Christians do not tolerate our existence.

Quote from: "Yrreg"Okay, so they don't vote you to government elective offices because they don't want people who don't believe as they do in God, to be occupants of government offices, isn't that totally within their political rights?

They won't just not vote an atheist into office, they will not allow any office to be held by atheists, even such offices that are not elected positions such as notary.  People have to fight long legal battles because Christians don't want them to sign and stamp legal papers as witnesses.

Quote from: "Yrreg"You do the same, don't vote for God believers.

WRONG!
I have voted in all but one Presidential election since adulthood and all presidential candidates in my lifetime have been religious.  I have also voted in State and local elections during that time as well and every single available candidate for everything has always been Christian.  I vote for people based on what I think they will do in office.  I'm not bigoted against people based on their religion, I judge them on what they do instead.

Quote from: "Yrreg"Now, what other things do they insist, mind you, insist that you also observe to do or to not do as they who believe in God's really existing?

Like for examples, no stealing, no murdering, no making a racket at night in the neighborhood when people are trying to get some sleep for tomorrow?

Cute, I see what you did there, taking the most logical Biblical rules and putting them up as if blood-thirsty and/or illogical rules don't exist in the Bible.  By the way, those rules also pre-date the Bible and exist in non-Christian cultures.

Here are some examples of what I, personally, have been required, mind you, required to do or not do because of other people's belief in God.

1. Hide my parents' absence of belief to avoid beatings in school.

2.  Put up with visits from social services when I was a child due to my parents not taking me to church.

3.  Put up with proselyting while I was in the hospital due to being beaten by Christians for being an atheist.
 
4. Hide my absence of religious beliefs to keep my job in workplaces where hate speech against atheists, Muslims, non-Christians in general and Catholics was an everyday occurrence.

5.  Pay to get my kitchen window replaced and to get my car re-painted and repaired after Christians vandalized both.

6.  Worry about my safety when Christians threaten me with rape and/or death simply because I believe differently than they do.

My parents had to worry about losing their children and about keeping them safe.

If you want unvarnished truth, I am writing this thinking that you find nothing wrong with any of that, that it's OK to beat someone for not believing, it's OK to threaten them or vandalize their property, it's OK to harass them and threaten their children - as long as they are non-believers.  I have lost count how many times a Christian has told me that my suffering was well-deserved or a sign from God that I need to straighten up.  

Would you be just peachy keen if you were required to hide your belief to stay safe, keep a job, keep your children safe?

As far as laws go -

1.  I can't get married to someone I love if that person happens to be the same sex as I am.
2.  I can't buy or sell sex toys in several states in the country.
3.  I can't legally have oral sex, even with a member of the opposite sex, even if we were married, in several states, including my own.
3.  I can't testify in court or hold public office in seven states.
4.  I can't go shopping on Sunday in certain areas of the country.

But it goes deeper.  Christians are trying to make many, many more laws.  How far with those laws would you go?  Would you make it a law that sons who are disobedient and drunkards be stoned to death?  Would you have women and girls stoned to death for losing their virginity?  Would you keep slaves?  Would you kill suspected witches?  Would you have homosexuals executed?  Would you kill non-believers?  If you wouldn't, can you absolutely, totally guarantee that other Christians wouldn't?  They have in other countries, so why not here?  

Can you guarantee the behavior of other Christians?  In other countries, Christians are performing sometimes deadly exorcisms and killing children they claim are witches.  In other countries Christians are killing homosexuals.  In other countries Christians are "correctively" raping lesbians.  They are finding justifications for all of it in the Bible.  How can you guarantee it won't go that far in America?

Kylyssa, I don't think this one is worth your blood pressure going up.

It's probably not.

@Kylyssa

It sounds like you've had too many bad experiences with the wrong people.

I'm Christian, and I know a lot of people who do not act that way. At all...
Mind you there are the annoying ones...Who just can't believe that you don't believe in GOD!!!
But if you ask me they need to learn some respect and grow up.

QuoteHave you read the Bible????

The Bible was written thousands of years ago, people had a different mind set back then. While time keeps moving, culture keeps changing, we keep learning. "Stoning" shouldn't even be considered (If you were simply making a point though, I understand)
Rules are there, I agree with you. But these rules are meant to keep you on track of simply being a good human being and strengthen your belief.

QuoteBut it goes deeper. Christians are trying to make many, many more laws.

Where are these laws you are talking about?

QuoteIn other countries, Christians are performing sometimes deadly exorcisms and killing children they claim are witches. In other countries Christians are killing homosexuals. In other countries Christians are "correctively" raping lesbians. They are finding justifications for all of it in the Bible. How can you guarantee it won't go that far in America?

Where are you finding this information, I'm honestly just curious...

Quote from: "plinkoblinko"It sounds like you've had too many bad experiences with the wrong people.

Those wrong people often travel in groups and for some atheists can make their lives a living hell.  Those same wrong people think they are doing god's work too...just look at Westboro Baptist Church at least they don't actually physically harm anyone.  I know people who are closeted atheists because in their area speaking openly about differences in opinion over religion is practically a death sentence.

Yes, there are a lot of good Christians, but they are good despite what is written in their holy book not because of it.

Quote from: "Whitney"Those wrong people often travel in groups and for some atheists can make their lives a living hell. Those same wrong people think they are doing god's work too...just look at Westboro Baptist Church at least they don't actually physically harm anyone. I know people who are closeted atheists because in their area speaking openly about differences in opinion over religion is practically a death sentence.

Life's a trip, those people are nuts, and my suggestion would be get the hell out of there.
Kind of interesting though how you point out people suffering because of what they believe....I think that pretty much happens to everyone. Not just atheists.

Quote from: "Whitney"Yes, there are a lot of good Christians, but they are good despite what is written in their holy book not because of it.

And the good always outweighs the bad. And I agree most people are genuinely good, but their holy book can strengthen that is all I'm saying.

Quote from: "plinkoblinko"

Quote from: "kylyssa"Have you read the Bible????

The Bible was written thousands of years ago, people had a different mind set back then. While time keeps moving, culture keeps changing, we keep learning. "Stoning" shouldn't even be considered (If you were simply making a point though, I understand)

If people are trying to enforce other Old Testament laws how can we be sure they won't enforce others?  The people that take the Bible literally (six day creation, etc.) believe the Bible is the word of God, not, as you mention, a book written by people in a different time that followed a different morality.

Quote from: "plinkoblinko"Rules are there, I agree with you. But these rules are meant to keep you on track of simply being a good human being and strengthen your belief.

Which is just fine so long as your rules don't infringe on other people's rights and safety (i.e. letting your child die without medical treatment, harming others) and you don't make your rules into laws and force everyone to follow them.

Quote from: "plinkoblinko"

Quote from: "kylyssa"But it goes deeper. Christians are trying to make many, many more laws.

Where are these laws you are talking about?

Anti-blasphemy laws, anti-homosexuality laws.  And seriously, you haven't noticed the religious fundamentalists trying to get evolution and science-based sex ed out of schools?  Haven't you seen the book burnings?  

Quote from: "plinkoblinko"

Quote from: "kylyssa"In other countries, Christians are performing sometimes deadly exorcisms and killing children they claim are witches. In other countries Christians are killing homosexuals. In other countries Christians are "correctively" raping lesbians. They are finding justifications for all of it in the Bible. How can you guarantee it won't go that far in America?

Where are you finding this information, I'm honestly just curious...

It's called the news.  Go to .  Type in the following combinations of keywords each set separately and then read the results -
"evangelical exorcisms children"
"child witches"
"Uganda homosexuals"
"South Africa corrective rape"

I can already hear the, "Yes, but not all Christians support that stuff" already.  No, not all Christians do, most Christians don't.  But enough do that those things are happening and you had zero idea that they were.  I can also almost hear the "but they are not REAL Christians" coming next.  How would you guarantee that only REAL Christians would be listened to when it comes to lawmaking based on the Bible?  

Most Christians are great people but we can't trust that all Christians are great people.  Most Muslims are great people, too, and I'm sure you how Muslim theocracies are working out.

In America, we've tried to prevent a theocracy by not giving any single religion official control over government.

Quote from: "plinkoblinko"Life's a trip, those people are nuts, and my suggestion would be get the hell out of there.

So your answer is leave America, how original.  No thanks, I'd rather speak up and try to change it.

Quote from: "plinkoblinko"Kind of interesting though how you point out people suffering because of what they believe....I think that pretty much happens to everyone. Not just atheists.

So that makes it fine.  It's OK if Christians make people suffer because other people make Christians suffer?  Seriously?  What kind of morality is that?

Quote from: "plinkoblinko"@Kylyssa

It sounds like you've had too many bad experiences with the wrong people.

Yes, because there are too many "wrong people" and they are tolerated by many and supported by others.

Quote from: "plinkoblinko"I'm Christian, and I know a lot of people who do not act that way. At all...

You know, me too.  Most Christians are great people.  But the existence of Christians that are great people doesn't negate the existence of Christians that are not - and vice-versa.  Almost all of the people I know are Christians and most of them are nice.  But it doesn't make it just fine when a few of the Christians I know refuse to serve Muslims or to set up flowers in a Jewish temple or Catholic church (did you know - fundies don't think Catholics are Christians?!?) or when they suggest that atheists should get rounded up into internment camps.

You see, by talking about this dirty underbelly, good Christians like yourself can see what's going on and maybe speak up and say, "hey, cut it out, that's not nice" to the other Christians doing this crap in your religion's name.  My Christian friends are horrified when they learn of this stuff going on.  And they say so and spread the word.

Kylyssa this is the easiest way to go about this without getting angry or frustrated.

Quote from: "Yrreg"There are all kinds of non-realities,

Prove it.

Quote from: "Yrreg"and God is a very special non-reality for atheists

Prove it.

Quote from: "Yrreg"one which they write so much about to deny that He does exist as the moon and your nose exist

Prove it.

Quote from: "Yrreg"of course in His own manner, but no less real as you and I and our nose and the moon and the sun are real.

Prove it.

Quote from: "Yrreg"Please don't bring in lying in our exchange of views, we are just exchanging views about atheists being unhappy with God and with believers in God.

Prove that while you are at it.

Quote from: "Yrreg"If you don't share my observation, you just say that I get it all wrong, even though I insist that my observation is real.

Prove it's an observation.

Quote from: "Yrreg"No one is accusing no one of lying, not me of you and I am certain not you of me.

Then why are you rejecting what we are saying?

Quote from: "Yrreg"You give one reason why you are not happy with believers in God, because they want you to observe what they observe owing to their faith in God.

Reread the conversation in the thread if you really think that.

Quote from: "Yrreg"Is it really that bad, that they want you to observe what they do observe owing to their faith in God, i.e., knowledge that God really exists?

When they are trying to pass laws because of it ... then yes.

Quote from: "Yrreg"Suppose you be specific and itemize concretely what they don't tolerate you doing or not doing owing to your not accepting God as real.

Can you rephrase that into a cohesive sentence please?

Quote from: "Yrreg"Okay, so they don't vote you to government elective offices because they don't want people who don't believe as they do in God, to be occupants of government offices, isn't that totally within their political rights?

Let me fix this:  So what if we don't vote for Christians in government elective offices, we don't want Christians to be occupants of government offices, we are totally within our political rights to do so. (Now replace Christians with Blacks, Jews, Muslims,  and Gays)

Quote from: "Yrreg"You do the same, don't vote for God believers.

Prove it.

Quote from: "Yrreg"Now, what other things do they insist, mind you, insist that you also observe to do or to not do as they who believe in God's really existing?

Your grammar is terrible.  And prove that is all they do.

Quote from: "Yrreg"Like for examples, no stealing, no murdering, no making a racket at night in the neighborhood when people are trying to get some sleep for tomorrow?

Prove that is all they do.

You are unhappy with me or with my opinions?

And are my opinions so bad for your taste that you have to be unhappy with me?

Do I engage in blatant foul language on you here?

I am just saying that I am of the valid observation that you atheists are not happy with God and with believers in God.

Now it turns out that you have no reasons to be unhappy with God because God for you does not exist, but you are unhappy with believers in God because they in effect get in your way with having a happy existence and life.


Come to my country, the Philippines, it is a Christian country but the peoples are the most tolerant when it comes to religion.

Wait, except in the very tip of the southern islands, because there are Muslims there who claim to be fighting for autonomy, even when they have already an autonomous big slice of land there, and they can have very unhappy ways and means (for the rest of the country) of raising funds for their cause.

But right in the USA it is a very big country, I am sure you can live elsewhere where there are no fundamentalist believers in God who can send you death threats for being unbelievers in God.

Bill Gates is supposed to be an atheist but he is not unhappy with believers in God, is he? well not the way you are in this forum.

So, what is preventing you from becoming like Bill Gates, very rich and very happy and a good citizen and a moral one of the USA?

Even without believing in God.

Tell you what, you atheists should all get together and work together to buy a very big slice of land in the USA like what the Mormons did (in a way), and live among yourselves but still enjoying all the fabulous opportunities of being citizens of the USA, to get ahead in life and have a very happy existence.



You know what, you should be like infants which you claim also to be born atheists, then you would not have to be unhappy with believers, because infants are just happy to be alive and comfortable and fed regularly from mama's breast.



By the way is this the forum where I was once banned temporarily, because I kept repeating my idea about how atheists when they get to be in charge of the government will do terrible things to believers in God, like what they did in Russia during the cold war years?

But now there are no more militant atheists in Russia, everyone is now proud to be Russian and heir to the great tradition of the Russian Orthodox Church.

-----------------

You know what, you are unhappy with believers in God because they give you the suspicion of their being happier than you with their existence and life and world.



Ryrge

Quote from: "Yrreg"You know what, you are unhappy with believers in God because they give you the suspicion of their being happier than you with their existence and life and world.
Ryrge

You know what, you came to the conclusion you planned to come to when you wrote the original post.  Coming to a conclusion, asking people what they think, then ignoring it and sticking to the conclusion you started with - par for the course.

Quote from: "Yrreg"You know what, you are unhappy with believers in God because they give you the suspicion of their being happier than you with their existence and life and world.
Ryrge

You come to this conclusion after completely ignoring what we all said about the problem we have with believers.  You ignore the rape and death threats mentioned, the vandalism, the stalking, the fear for jobs and safety - and you come to the conclusion atheists aren't upset by the threats, violence, terror tactics, and legislation but that, no, those things don't bother us a bit, we're just jealous that believers are happier than us.

But you know what?  I don't go to Christian forums and tell them they are wrong.  Why do you need to go to atheist forums and basically try to prove your superiority?

Quote from: "Kylyssa"Which is just fine so long as your rules don't infringe on other people's rights and safety (i.e. letting your child die without medical treatment, harming others) and you don't make your rules into laws and force everyone to follow them.

Those rules are not "my" rules. If those rules are actually made into laws, we've got a serious problem.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"Anti-blasphemy laws, anti-homosexuality laws. And seriously, you haven't noticed the religious fundamentalists trying to get evolution and science-based sex ed out of schools? Haven't you seen the book burnings?

Not really. But that is some pretty crazy stuff. Do you really think that's going to happen? People (I hope) are just a little smarter than that.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"So your answer is leave America, how original. No thanks, I'd rather speak up and try to change it.

No, It's not.
Whatever you want to do though to get away is great. And If you want to change things, that's great too.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"So that makes it fine. It's OK if Christians make people suffer because other people make Christians suffer? Seriously? What kind of morality is that?

No, It's not OK.
I was simply saying that there has been suffering concerning beliefs since the beginning of time. Everyone suffers, and it takes an individual or group to respond and change that.

When I started with this thread it was to find out whether atheists can know the distinction between God and believers in God, or God and religion.

Because they voice out their frustrations and dissatisfactions with one and the other confusedly, so that God is religion and religion is God as if they make up the same lump in their (atheists') throats.


You say I started with the conclusion already that atheists are unhappy with God and religion.

Yes, that is true but not so much the conclusion as the valid observation that atheists are unhappy with God and religion.

However, I was ready to hear from atheists whether they should and could be objective in their self-examination, why they are unhappy with God and believers in God, specifically the Christian faith or in particular Christians.


What I am now aware of is that atheists feel the need to project themselves as not being unhappy with God, because He does not exist, and not with Christians except that Christians are a pain in the neck for them, to say the least.

So I have the impression now that atheists want to convince themselves and everyone else that logically they have no reasons to be unhappy with God, and not with Christians unless Christians restrict their freedom to do what they want to do and also of course to not do, all within the lawful constraints of a society founded upon the institution of law.

And just the same emotionally they are unhappy with God and with religion.

You cannot cease being emotional just because you can manipulate concepts and words to logically convince yourselves that you are not unhappy with God and religion.



My impression now in sum is that atheists want to by logic show themselves and others that they are not unhappy with God and with believers in God, but for being emotional entities as humans all are emotional entities they cannot keep from being emotionally unhappy with God and with believers in God.

Can you agree with me that emotionally you are not happy with God and with religion, more with religion than with God, no matter how you want to be logical that you need not be unhappy with them, because it is impossible for being human entities which are essentially emotional before anything else.


Now, you are unhappy with me because I see you as being unhappy with God and with religion, which you want to convince me with words and concepts and logic that you are not, but you are emotionally unhappy, that is what I see in you -- with God and with religion.

The only way you will not give me the idea that you are emotionally unhappy with God and religion is: when you should be robotized and your master programmer did not program God and believers in God into your operating system.

In which case you could be like smart bombs but not humans.


And as long as the powers that be here don't ban me forever from this forum, you just have to live with me in this forum with my idea that you guys are emotionally unhappy with God and religion, no matter how you want me to join you in your conviction that you are not, not even emotionally unhappy with God and with religion.

Rest assured however that I have other topics I like to raise up here with you, not connected -- is that possible? -- with God and religion.

Wait and see -- if I am still around.

[  If I don't appear here again because I have been banned in perpetuity, then I am glad to have met you atheists here and know about you, and also of course fellow theists here. ]

Yrreg

I seriously couldn't care less about what you believe until you start passing legislature limiting my rights based on it, or threatening my rights or the rights of others in other ways because of it.

I have nothing against the church when it stays nice and separate from the state.

Would you like it if a Muslim majority voted that all women had to wear burkas at all times?

Quote from: "plinkoblinko"

Quote from: "Kylyssa"Anti-blasphemy laws, anti-homosexuality laws. And seriously, you haven't noticed the religious fundamentalists trying to get evolution and science-based sex ed out of schools? Haven't you seen the book burnings?

Not really. But that is some pretty crazy stuff. Do you really think that's going to happen? People (I hope) are just a little smarter than that.

Ireland passed anti-blasphemy laws similar to the ones groups in the US are proposing.  Anti-homosexual laws have already been passed preventing homosexuals from marrying.  Fundies are trying to introduce legislature to remove evolution from school curricula.  So far they've only succeeded in putting disclaimers in textbooks, but they admit they want more.  For about ten years, many science-based sex education programs were replaced with religion based "abstinence only" education at a cost of something like $75 million per year with a net result of not preventing teen pregnancies or STDs and not increasing the age at which teens become sexually active.

Quote from: "Yrreg"crap

Look when you admit to having preconceived notions and are blatantly looking for some way to validate them including lying (which you are doing) then you make yourself and your religion look foolish.  We've all told you that you are not listening to what we are saying.  Maybe it's because of these preconceived notions that you distort your view with.  All you have done here is constantly assert more and more garbage and when asked to defend it you conveniently ignore the challenge and any criticism you get, and then moan about getting banned.  No one feels sorry for you because you don't listen and you don't learn.  You are like the kid who sticks his finger in the light socket for the twelfth time and is debating about going for thirteen.  No one feels sorry for you because you haven't learned a damn thing.

If you honestly came here to look at what atheists have to say then READ WHAT WE HAVE TO SAY.  Don't glance at it and reject it because it doesn't fit into the view you had at the start.  When you do this you are lying to yourself.  This is called willful ignorance and there is no nice way to put it to you.  If your argument is so poor that it can't handle criticisms and challenges then what makes you think it is correct?  Please give us some evidence that atheists are angry at your god and show why it doesn't apply to already well known made up characters.  If you can't do it then your argument isn't worth the amount of space it takes up on the internet.

Quote from: "Yrreg"God or religion, which are atheists more unhappy with?



Yrreg

Oh we all knew what this was from the get go, right?  Let's just respond with equally absurd questions -

Science or reality, which are theists more frightened of?  

Yrreg, can you honestly not understand how blatantly unfair a question like that is?

Ubi dubium ibi libertas: Where there is doubt, there is freedom.
http://alliedatheistalliance.blogspot.com/ (http://alliedatheistalliance.blogspot.com/)[/list]

You get it a bit wrong there, mate.



Where there is doubt there is liberty should be better formulated as: where there is no intolerance and that includes intolerance from atheists, there is liberty of thought and speech.


---------------

I see that you all seem to have failed to grasp the distinction between logical stance and emotional stance.

You keep harping on logic but your words are all about unhappiness with God and religion, that you would be happy if there be no God and no religion and no one to even so much as mention God and practice religion.


And the fact that you accuse me of lying is the proof that you are unhappy with me.

Haha!

It does not at all convince anyone on the veracity of your accusation, but it does show how you can be against a person and not just limiting yourselves to his observations which he expresses as much as possible impassively.



Yrreg

Quote from: "Yrreg"

You keep harping on logic but your words are all about unhappiness with God and religion, that you would be happy if there be no God and no religion and no one to even so much as mention God and practice religion.
And the fact that you accuse me of lying is the proof that you are unhappy with me.

Haha!

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freewebs.com%2Fbloodterror%2FFailboat.jpg&hash=33f7cfa95a5e09168aa996b7dd79e9c7b4863cc4)

Can we just ban this guy and be done with it?

Quote from: "Yrreg"

Ubi dubium ibi libertas: Where there is doubt, there is freedom.
http://alliedatheistalliance.blogspot.com/ (http://alliedatheistalliance.blogspot.com/)[/list]

You get it a bit wrong there, mate.



Where there is doubt there is liberty should be better formulated as: where there is no intolerance and that includes intolerance from atheists, there is liberty of thought and speech.

Uh oh, must have touched a nerve...sucks being on the receiving end of that kind of irrational question, huh?  You seem, dare I say, unhappy.    :ban:[/quote]

I'm shocked this person hasn't been banned already.  Oh, wait...

I've stayed out of this thread because to me the initial question was pointless and smelled strongly of, "Have you stopped beating your wife?"  So Yrreg's subsequent posts have not been all that surprising to me.  However, after (yet another) careful reading of the Forum Rules (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1522), I don't find any which are being blatantly violated by him.  You might conceivably accuse him of trolling, but I think that he's honestly here to attempt dialog (even though he seems to have trouble accomplishing that, in light of his refusal to take statements by other forum members at face value), rather than merely provoke and rile.  Indeed, there is an occasional glimmer of actual give and take in his posts, before he reverts to his preconceived position.  

 

QuoteFrom the Wiki definition of trolls, as quoted in the masterful OP of Trolling 101 (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2332):

...someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community...  ...with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

This thread has been undeniably on topic, in as much as it has been about atheism.  The "provoking emotional response" issue is dubious in this context, in that many of the topics discussed at HAF are inevitably emotion laden.  I think that a good part of the "normal on-topic discussion" at HAF is responding to crusading clowns in various striped, polka-dotted and zig-zagged get-ups, most of them wielding cross or crescent moon shaped slapsticks, so once again, this thread is not pushing the limits of what's "normal" here.  While Yrreg does seem intransigent/thick-headed, I don't get the feeling that he's here merely to provoke.  That's a hard call, though, and his posts could be read either way.  I would vote for the "more rope" approach, because it doesn't hurt any of the members of  HAF to give Yrreg a chance to prove himself definitively a troll or not, and because of the following:

I admit that I have a tendency to defend borderline cases such as Yrreg, merely because I find reading the threads in which they are involved somewhat entertaining.  That's a purely selfish motive, but I don't think I'm the only one with a semi-morbid sense of humor.  

As for the OP:  I'm at least as unhappy with YHVH as I am with any other fictional thug.  Religion per se I take on a case by case basis, but I hold to Mencken's statement, as seen in the second of my signature quotes.  

Which are you more unhappy with Yrreg:  Atheist lack of belief in your favorite deity, or the ongoing discovery and understanding of the universe as a godless place?

Quote from: "Yrreg"

Ubi dubium ibi libertas: Where there is doubt, there is freedom.
http://alliedatheistalliance.blogspot.com/ (http://alliedatheistalliance.blogspot.com/)[/list]

You get it a bit wrong there, mate.



Where there is doubt there is liberty should be better formulated as: where there is no intolerance and that includes intolerance from atheists, there is liberty of thought and speech.

Don't derail your own thread in an attempt to beat up someone who responded to you....that's not nice and it makes jesus cry.

Got to love South Park, "The otters are attacking us sir!" (reference to the link yrreg posted)

I still haven't seen you back up anything you've said Yrreg ... so you are still sinking with the failboat.

Quote from: "Yrreg"blah blah...
Ryrge

did you just misspell your own name? or get your sn's confused?  

Well, since gods are a fabrication of religion I take issue with both equally, first of all, almost all religions demand some kind of blind devotion at some point and have slowed, if not completely halted, scientific progress. As well as the introduction and continued practice of some undignified traditions, many times religion has been used to justify morally unjustifiable acts. As for god, many gods depicted by religions act in a manner unbecoming of an omnipotent/benevolent deity. I don't care how powerful you are you can't just kill anyone just because they don't believe in you. There are billions of people on earth who've never heard of me, that doesn't mean I can go around killing them as an example to others who don't know me. Anyway if a god gets in the way of science he immediatly goes on my bad list.

Thanks everyone here who is not for banning me, and keep up the good work, because it is a testament to your being tolerant if nothing else, for atheists pride themselves in being tolerant unlike people [sic] who know God exists.


Since people here can express their heart and mind on their desire to get someone banned, I think I may also voice my idea that judging people to be trolls on the basis of their messages, that rule should be banned from this forum.

Why? Because it is absolutely not in keeping with freedom of thought and speech; it is actually a fertile but foul soil for abusive discrimination against members, who happen to have opinions and views not contributing to your happiness index, no matter how civilly expressed.



Tell you what, happy atheists here and specially the powers that operate this forum, only keep one or two rules: no spamming, and no blatantly foul language in particular directed against any fellow poster here.

That should make your forum the most welcome to all men who love to exchange views on anything and everything that is of concern to humankind, no matter that it is not of the kind as to jibe with the spirit of the atheists' manifesto -- I guess there is one, of course there is one, with this number 1 statement of faith, we atheists do not have any belief in God or deities whatever.



Okay, now let me tell you, why you guys who are unhappy with me here are unhappy, because you are frustrated in seeing that I don't docilely accept your words as Gospel truths, but instead keep on saying nay nay nay to them.

Talk about you guys being against dogmatism in religion, you are certainly giving the lie to yourselves, for the fact is that you are also lapsing conspicuously into dogmatism.

Of course your dogmatism is founded on reason and logic, hahaha!

But other peoples' dogmatism is pure dogmatism, because they dare to say nay to your words.

----------------

Coming now to the topic of this thread, God or religion, which are you atheists more unhappy with?

Actually you should be more unhappy with religion, as I have already said earlier, religion has to do with people who want to legislate you guys out of commission; but God, He leaves you all alone to do whatever you want.

Do you know that there are atheists who love to call God bad names and encourage others to do so, because that makes them so happy.

Silly.


I am sure you happy atheists are not into that stunt which is a most glaring example of being unhappy with God which you don't believe to exist.

Okay, what do you think about your fellow atheists who go for public and outrageous blasphemies against God all in the name of free speech and get a terrific kick out of that, hahaha!

Very silly and immature and infantile.



Ryrge

Quote from: "Yrreg"Okay, what do you think about your fellow atheists who go for public and outrageous blasphemies against God all in the name of free speech and get a terrific kick out of that, hahaha!

So what if they do? They have the same freedom of speech as anyone else, and who does it hurt? Anyway, if they're saying these things about a god they (obviously) don't believe is real, clearly it's to provoke a negative reaction from religious people, whom we've agreed, have we not, are the real objects of these atheists' disdain, if anyone. I'm sure they have their reasons; and being silly, immature, and infantile, only makes it more fun - if not more effective.

For my part, I used to be mature but I grew out of that nonsense when I realized that, as long as my actions don't intrude on the rights of others within reasonable limits (ie. in due proportion to my own rights), that which makes me smile is worth doing.

Gerry,

The reason so many are upset is not because you "don't take thier word as gospel". It's because you ask us specificly what we believe and why then totaly disregard the answer you've gotten when it doesn't match your biased view. We all have biases it's part of the human condition. However the act of asking for other opinions usually signifies a willingness to learn or at the least a willingness to accept that mabye our pre-question biased is not as complete as we would like.

You have esentialy asked us a question which we took on good faith your willingness to learn a point of view other the your own. Not nessicarily to change your point of view but a willingness to learn someone else's. What you have instead done is ask our point of view, recieve it, then totaly disregard it, then tell us what we believe. Thereby keeping your original bias intact.

If I asked you why you believed in god, recieved your answer, then said "Nuh uh, the real reason is because you're too stupid to understand science". If I held you to my preconcieved notion of your being dumb, regardless of you trying to describe what your faith mant to you and why you had it, I believe you would find it as agravating as many in the thread have found your continued obstinence.

Unless you can accept that the people on this forum will answer you honestly, that the views individuals state here are as truthfull as your own, any conversation will ultimatly be futile. You don't have to take anyone's word as "gospel" but like any converstaion untill a person proves themselves untruthful treat it as honest. You should give the people here the benifit of a doubt that they are being honest even if from your perspective they are wrong.

My 2 cents.

QuoteSince people here can express their heart and mind on their desire to get someone banned, I think I may also voice my idea that judging people to be trolls on the basis of their messages, that rule should be banned from this forum.

Why? Because it is absolutely not in keeping with freedom of thought and speech; it is actually a fertile but foul soil for abusive discrimination against members, who happen to have opinions and views not contributing to your happiness index, no matter how civilly expressed.

not to get off track but you seem to have confused this forum with a democracy. Whitney is the admin. she pays the bills. she keeps the site running and ultimately decides who uses and is welcome to use the space she pays for.
should Whitney so decide to be a tyrant, a dictator, or just a cold bitch.... she has every right to because ITS HER SITE.

not to come across in any aggressive manner but it gets really old when people cry about freedom of well... anything on a internet forum. if you dont like it here i would suggest you post elsewhere. or enjoy your stay with whatever rules the admin should decide to enforce. even if they "infringe" upon your freedoms outside the internet in the real world.

I am not unhappy with God. God does not exist. You can not be pissed at what does not exist.
I am unhappy with religion. I would love to see it destroyed. Except for in novels and fan fictions, because it provides an excellent base for kinky storytelling.  

Yrreg,  if you say that "atheists are mad at god" again or in any way continue to imply that everyone here is lying to you about their not being mad at god you'll be banned permanently.  If you don't like that, just don't post here anymore.

P.S. only productively contributing members of a forum get an input on the rules.

Yrreg, you're like a broken record, repeating the same thing over and over. Do you not understand that atheists don't believe there is such a thing as god? How can an atheist be unhappy with something that doesn't exist? I'm not unhappy with the easter bunny or santa either. I am unhappy with anyone who uses poor rhetoric to make fallacious arguments and uses straw man arguments to misrepresent others.

Get your act together and listen to what people are saying, not what you think they are saying.

First, before anything else, please don't use that word lying as an accusation, and attribute it to me as if I am really in fact accusing anyone of lying, and please also don't say that I am lying.

Just say you disagree with me and I disagree with you.

Or you are terribly mistaken or I am terribly mistaken about you.

Because accusing someone of lying is to claim that you know what is in his heart and mind, and that he is into deception, fraud, whatever, but not in any honest intention to say what is his true mind and heart, even though to your understanding he is in error or not acquainted with the facts.


Just say if you want to accuse me of lying -- and I for myself never use that word lying on anyone here -- that I am terribly mistaken.


So if you think that I do not accept your statement that you are not unhappy, etc., just say that I am not observing your emotional mood correctly.




This is of course, this forum, is a private property and thanks for allowing me to post here.

But I am sure Whitney the private owner and operator here wants also to see that everyone is enjoying free thought and expressing his free thoughts here on condition that he writes in civil language.




Back to unhappy with God and religion on your part as atheists, you don't want people to get that impression from the totality of their observation of all your actuations in regard to God and religion, understanding religion as people with religious ideas and practices, and you explain to them why you are not unhappy; well, then don't give them any importance, okay?

On my part I will just say -- and you will continue to be unhappy with me -- that you want to project the illogic of any conclusion from peoples not atheists about you atheists being unhappy with God -- because God does not exist for you, but to my impression you are still emotionally unhappy with God.


There must be some poll on how peoples who are not atheists, at least not like your kind of atheists, look at you in regard to your being unhappy with God.

Anyone know of any such poll?

------------------


By the way, if Whitney is around, thanks for not banning me so far.

About that temporary banning some time back, I guess you have now mellowed down a bit, and  you no longer believe in death sentence even temporary 'death' sentence on posters here who are just into disagreeing with your fellow atheists here, notwithstanding that some here might cry out for my blood.

Now, it will very disappointing if any atheists here should abandon this forum of happy atheists because they can't get the powers that be here to throw me out in perpetuity.

-----------------

Addressing Whitney, please don't ban me, I still have other ideas I want to explore with happy atheists here.

How about the idea of chance as the 'God' in place of God for atheists?


Is that a trollish topic here with happy atheists?




Ryrge

lol

You seem to be disingenuously confused about how your actions might be considered trollish.  In case you're being sincere, here's an explanation of why the things you say and the way you say them might be considered trolling  -

Quote from: "Yrreg"Back to unhappy with God and religion on your part as atheists, you don't want people to get that impression from the totality of their observation of all your actuations in regard to God and religion, understanding religion as people with religious ideas and practices, and you explain to them why you are not unhappy; well, then don't give them any importance, okay?

On my part I will just say -- and you will continue to be unhappy with me -- that you want to project the illogic of any conclusion from peoples not atheists about you atheists being unhappy with God -- because God does not exist for you, but to my impression you are still emotionally unhappy with God.


There must be some poll on how peoples who are not atheists, at least not like your kind of atheists, look at you in regard to your being unhappy with God.

Once again, you repeat that atheists are unhappy with god even though nearly every regularly participating atheist on the board has explained why this is illogical and an entirely incorrect assumption.  You also continue to assert factually how we really feel and why we're unhappy with your input on the forum, ignoring everything that everyone has said to the contrary in favor of your own assumptions and evident desire to be magically internet-clairvoyant.  

Quote from: "Yrreg"By the way, if Whitney is around, thanks for not banning me so far.

About that temporary banning some time back, I guess you have now mellowed down a bit, and  you no longer believe in death sentence even temporary 'death' sentence on posters here who are just into disagreeing with your fellow atheists here, notwithstanding that some here might cry out for my blood.

Now, it will very disappointing if any atheists here should abandon this forum of happy atheists because they can't get the powers that be here to throw me out in perpetuity.

You thank Whitney for not banning you, then immediately both insult her and insinuate that if you were to be banned, it would be because you were innocently disagreeing with a group of atheists and Whitney cruelly and callously banned you.  You seem to be willfully ignoring that in reality you are not innocently disagreeing, but rather ignoring our disagreement with your own uneducated assertions regarding our feelings in favor of repeating yourself.  Also, you seem to think that you have enough of an effect on this forum that people might actually stop coming here because of you which is a laughable and delusion of grandeur.

Quote from: "Yrreg"Addressing Whitney, please don't ban me, I still have other ideas I want to explore with happy atheists here.

How about the idea of chance as the 'God' in place of God for atheists?

I don't understand your inadequately explained idea of chance in place of god - can you explain what you mean by chance, by god, and exactly how you feel one could/might take the place of the other?  

Your own actions on this forum have proven that you are quite fond of asking ambiguous questions and then entirely ignoring the answers you receive in favor of repeating your uneducated opinion about what we think and feel and believe as fact.  I have no interest in your questions at this point and I'm not going to trust that you're anything but a troll until you start asking questions where you explain your ideas and concepts thoroughly.  Plenty of theists disagree with the atheists of this board regularly and are never called out as trolls.  The difference between them and you isn't some unseen atheist plot to quiet your voice here as you seem to believe, it's a difference between how you and those other theists conduct themselves.

Okay, let us all if you are interested go to my new thread on chance as the 'God' of atheists in place of God the maker of everything.



Ryrge

So, Yrreg, which are you more unhappy with, atheists or reason?

[sarcasm]Although you deny it, I think you are emotionally unhappy with atheists because you fear we may be right.[/sarcasm]

See how arrogant that "sounds" to you?  That's how arrogant you come across.  You come across as patronizing and arrogant.

Quote from: "Yrreg"Okay, let us all if you are interested go to my new thread on chance as the 'God' of atheists in place of God the maker of everything.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"So, Yrreg, which are you more unhappy with, atheists or reason?

I'm sure that thread will be interesting, but Kylyssa highlights an issue that shouldn't be passed over:  There were questions asked of you, Yrreg, by those who took the time to answer your question.  Speaking as a member of this forum (one who's still reserving judgment on whether you're more than just a hard-working troll), I would appreciate it if you made at least a token effort to address them.  So, I will repeat the question I asked of you:

 

QuoteWhich are you more unhappy with Yrreg: Atheist lack of belief in your favorite deity, or the ongoing discovery and understanding of the universe as a godless place?

Thank you in advance.

Quote from: "Yrreg"First, before anything else, please don't use that word lying as an accusation, and attribute it to me as if I am really in fact accusing anyone of lying, and please also don't say that I am lying.

Just say you disagree with me and I disagree with you.

Or you are terribly mistaken or I am terribly mistaken about you.

Because accusing someone of lying is to claim that you know what is in his heart and mind, and that he is into deception, fraud, whatever, but not in any honest intention to say what is his true mind and heart, even though to your understanding he is in error or not acquainted with the facts.

Just say if you want to accuse me of lying -- and I for myself never use that word lying on anyone here -- that I am terribly mistaken.

So if you think that I do not accept your statement that you are not unhappy, etc., just say that I am not observing your emotional mood correctly.

This is of course, this forum, is a private property and thanks for allowing me to post here.

But I am sure Whitney the private owner and operator here wants also to see that everyone is enjoying free thought and expressing his free thoughts here on condition that he writes in civil language.

Back to unhappy with God and religion on your part as atheists, you don't want people to get that impression from the totality of their observation of all your actuations in regard to God and religion, understanding religion as people with religious ideas and practices, and you explain to them why you are not unhappy; well, then don't give them any importance, okay?

On my part I will just say -- and you will continue to be unhappy with me -- that you want to project the illogic of any conclusion from peoples not atheists about you atheists being unhappy with God -- because God does not exist for you, but to my impression you are still emotionally unhappy with God.

There must be some poll on how peoples who are not atheists, at least not like your kind of atheists, look at you in regard to your being unhappy with God.

Anyone know of any such poll?

------------------

By the way, if Whitney is around, thanks for not banning me so far.

About that temporary banning some time back, I guess you have now mellowed down a bit, and  you no longer believe in death sentence even temporary 'death' sentence on posters here who are just into disagreeing with your fellow atheists here, notwithstanding that some here might cry out for my blood.

Now, it will very disappointing if any atheists here should abandon this forum of happy atheists because they can't get the powers that be here to throw me out in perpetuity.

-----------------
Addressing Whitney, please don't ban me, I still have other ideas I want to explore with happy atheists here.

How about the idea of chance as the 'God' in place of God for atheists?

Is that a trollish topic here with happy atheists?

Ryrge

Yrreg, your actions in your writing imply exactly what Whitney said, and you are now trying to twist words to suit whatever your purpose is. This post also contains language that is obviously intended to bait people and to antagonize. I will direct you right now to cease this behavior and stick to constructive and respectful dialog in this forum.

Do not continue to imply emotions to others here. Do not post messages baiting members into debate about topics like banning, or forum rules, or anything off the threads in which you participate. And do not simply abandon threads that you have derailed and start new threads until you can demonstrate that you can abide by social contract here on the forum.

My message to you is in no way emotional. It is a dispassionate directive to you and you either will follow it and move on to constructive topics, or you won't. But either way, do not continue this road you are on, of accusing members and admins of this forum of any emotional behavior or intent to ban you.

All I want from you at this point is for you to indicate you understand and for you to cooperate.

If anyone has any questions or suggestions regarding forum rules, please feel free to PM me (or another member of the staff) and I'll bet glad to discuss them with you. I promise to keep an open mind.


Regarding the OP, I'm unhappy with certain aspects of organized religion. While I have no interest in telling people what to or not to believe, under some circumstances churches can enable harmful words and actions. The most recent and glaring example is how a religious organization can shield pedophiles from prosecution, hiding their illegal activity and moving them so as to cover up their horrible behavior. While I suppose something other than religion could do something like this, there are very few organizations with the power to do so. Also, there are even fewer instances where an organization claims to be a source of moral and ethical rules for so many people. If a priest can touch a little boy sexually and receive protection from the Catholic church, what does that tell Catholic people looking for moral guidance? This makes me very unhappy, especially for the children being victimized by these practices.

I can't be mad at god or gods. Atheists are unconvinced of the existence of god, so having an emotional response to something we don't believe is there doesn't make sense.

Quote from: "Yrreg"I can see that since atheists don't believe in God's existence, logically they should claim to be neither happy nor unhappy with God.

On the other hand, since religious people do exist and atheists know they do exist, atheists can be and should be either happy or unhappy with religious people, hence with religion.

And they certainly are unhappy with religion or concretely with religious people, unless they are being dishonest and say that they are not unhappy with religion or religious people.


In regard to God, if atheists were administered a lie detector test, and asked the question whether they are unhappy with God or not, if they say dishonestly that they have no emotional happy sentiment or unhappy sentiment with God, the lie detector could show them to be lying -- what do you think?

Yrreg

I usually have no problem with religious people or the stuff they believe in. They have just as much right to believe in a deity as I have the right to not believe in a deity. On the micro scale, only the super religious pose any potential annoyance to me simply because that's all they think or talk about. As I have no interest in becoming religious, we have nothing in common. Usually they would feel the same way about me, which is totally fine. I will not be proselytized to, though. I just will not be spoken to like I'm a child which is essentially the way people speak to you when they feel you aren't living a wholesome life without the love of god.

On the macro scale I feel very strongly that religion has absolutely no use for humanity whatsoever. It does nothing other than destroy or maim everything it comes into contact with. It is the antithesis of education and progression. It is an archaic, barbaric, backward and nefarious disease of the mind which may be instrumental in the eventual whole-scale deconstruction of humanity and everything good which it has going for it.

I don't know is someone has brought it up already, but I think it's important to differentiate between atheists and anti-theists. In my opinion and personal experience, most atheists are anti-theistic as well, but you also get theists who are anti-theistic, or rather anti-organised/institutionalised religion.
With regards to the lie-detector test question: I would say I was unhappy with God, even though he does not exist. I agree on a logical, rhetorical scale that technically we should not have an opinion on the matter, so I would rather say that were he to exist I would not be happy with him. The way he is depicted in the Bible is as vicious, unmerciful, egotistical, genocidal, and sadistic, and I am naturally even less impressed with his followers.
Not only that, but with regards to modern day religious wars, hate crimes, hate speech, horrific websites crying out for the blood of anyone different, the war being waged against science, reason and evolution, and renowned pastors who say that the victims of tragic natural disasters deserved what they got, religion is a disgusting, immoral, ugly, ignorant system. For this reason, I speak out against religion since I find the entire religious system irrational and harmful. It infringes on people's rights and leads to an intellectual cul-de-sac since it does not inspire critical thinking.
So I suppose it could be said that I an unhappy with both God and religion.

I have noticed that you do not approve of people disagreeing with your opinion. I am not asking you to agree with me, only notice my opinion and consider that it has some truths and possibly valid arguments in it.

Quote from: "Yrreg"God or religion, which are atheists more unhappy with?



Yrreg

Neither. I am unhappy about someone else's views affecting the way I want to run my life. That is all I want. Do not bring your beliefs into my world or my home.

Quote from: "Yrreg"God or religion, which are atheists more unhappy with?
Yrreg

I don't have problems with God, because I don't think that he exists. I also don't have problems with moderate religious people. Religions doesn't bother me very much either, unless they have a bad track record in terms of suppressing other people, forcing their silly dogma's on other people or do despicable acts against humanity in the name of their Gods.