Happy Atheist Forum

The best argument against Creationism/Intelligent Design is this;
Who made God?

Yea, but that's always countered with:

"So where did all the matter that exploded in the Big Bang come from?"

Which is, unfortunately, something no one quite knows yet (as far as I know. I willingly stand to be corrected..?).

I asked a teacher that question once just to be cocky and the natural response was, "God is infinite, he has always been there, he exists beyond our understanding of time and space" etc. There always seems a way to argue around the fact that some things we Just Don't Know.The origin of the universe or god is always a tricky path to navigate because we start wandering into the realms of things which aren't easily explained yet.

Quote from: "kelltrill"Yea, but that's always countered with:

"So where did all the matter that exploded in the Big Bang come from?"

Which is, unfortunately, something no one quite knows yet (as far as I know. I willingly stand to be corrected..?).

I asked a teacher that question once just to be cocky and the natural response was, "God is infinite, he has always been there, he exists beyond our understanding of time and space" etc.

Well, when you're making shit up from the word Go, it's natural to keep it up.

Quote from: "kelltrill"I asked a teacher that question once just to be cocky and the natural response was, "God is infinite, he has always been there, he exists beyond our understanding of time and space" etc. There always seems a way to argue around the fact that some things we Just Don't Know.The origin of the universe or god is always a tricky path to navigate because we start wandering into the realms of things which aren't easily explained yet.

But what observable difference is there between a universe created by such a god [infinite, always been there, exists beyond our understanding of time and space] and one that is itself infinite, always been there, and exists beyond our understanding of time and space, that we should be able to tell one from the other?

Well I guess I'll have to answer my own question (Who created God?).
I think it was some idiot who thought the world was flat and that the sky would fall on his head who came up with the whole God concept to explain the pimple that suddenly appeared on his bum. Just as plausible as all the other BS. Do they really teach this stuff in American schools? and isn't "intelligent design" the religios community's way of saying "alright we were wrong about creationism and Darwin was kind of right - but here's what really happened..............

Quote from: "strikemedown"Well I guess I'll have to answer my own question (Who created God?).

Wait, your OP didn't seem like it was asking us the question, why would you think we would answer?  Who created God?  Oh, that was Ted from marketing...

Does Ted do kids party's?

Quote from: "strikemedown"Does Ted do kids party's?

He's not a catholic priest if that's what you're asking.

Most scientists accept quantum mechanics and in it we find that something are produce out of  " NOTHING ", they just pot-up and them is gone. That is to say that the life-span of some particles/matters is very, very short. Again, the believe in a GOD by theist must be a GOD that is a more than just a BEING of INFINITE and all of the other attributes which humans can never even hope to acquire and cause of that its very difficult for anyone to define such a GOD. How can you imagine such a God as in what form, can't give it form cause you must firts have some kind of idea and definition. The invention of Jesus gave beleiver a close idea of GOD, so they will want to  claim, in JESUS, they had seem the Father. The question to asked the teacher is " how can anything come to existence minus SPACE " ?. In other words the first thing to exist is " SPACE " and all other existences will come later to occupied " SPACE ". In oder for you to exist, " SPACE " must be there first for you to occupied it. That so called GOD is not the creator of " SPACE ". From there you can go on as to the things that such a GOD did not created until you arrieved at the fact that no such a God exist. You can them spend your entire life arguing that.

Quote from: "hvargas"Most scientists accept quantum mechanics and in it we find that something are produce out of  " NOTHING ", they just pot-up and them is gone. That is to say that the life-span of some particles/matters is very, very short. Again, the believe in a GOD by theist must be a GOD that is a more than just a BEING of INFINITE and all of the other attributes which humans can never even hope to acquire and cause of that its very difficult for anyone to define such a GOD. How can you imagine such a God as in what form, can't give it form cause you must firts have some kind of idea and definition. The invention of Jesus gave beleiver a close idea of GOD, so they will want to  claim, in JESUS, they had seem the Father. The question to asked the teacher is " how can anything come to existence minus SPACE " ?. In other words the first thing to exist is " SPACE " and all other existences will come later to occupied " SPACE ". In oder for you to exist, " SPACE " must be there first for you to occupied it. That so called GOD is not the creator of " SPACE ". From there you can go on as to the things that such a GOD did not created until you arrieved at the fact that no such a God exist. You can them spend your entire life arguing that.

Have you not heard the expression "space is the body of god"?

The trouble is, space that i called "god" (or the body of god) is indistinguishable from space that is called "space"; and a god that exists outside of space (and/or time) is indistinguishable from no god at all.

My favorite thing to do when presented with a religious nut is to quote Epicurus
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is impotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Whence then is evil?"

I used this against a girl in my English class, she knows I am atheist an has been trying to convert me to Christianity for the past couple weeks. She had no response other than "free will".
She's one of the sweetest and brightest girls I've ever met, I just wish she wasn't so blinded by religion. Really, it's a shame when you see someone that has been brainwashed into their parent's ideals.

But don't think I go around preaching atheism, because I don't, if people want their faith they can have it. Though I will give my opinion if asked.

Quote from: "skwurll"My favorite thing to do when presented with a religious nut is to quote Epicurus
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is impotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Whence then is evil?"

I used this against a girl in my English class, she knows I am atheist an has been trying to convert me to Christianity for the past couple weeks. She had no response other than "free will". :brick:

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Unfortunately, in American culture, an atheist being openly atheist is pushing ideals upon others. A Christian being openly Christian is being American.  

Sadly true, but then again there's loads of hypocrisy when it comes to Christians.

Time is a creation from an intelligent mind and is used as a measure of its own existence. After it has done that it them relates " TIME " to define its own surroudings. A probem that atheists are having is that they are too much involved and concerned with what theists hold to be their true. Time, will be the one that will reveal to all human existence just how wrong they had been just as it has been revealing through science many things that were impossible to humans just a century ago. There is no creation and no intelligent design, there are fossils records that state the contrary and more evidence are coming forward but theist ignore it  and wish it just go away. To contested they claimed that dating such records are not reliable, so they denied the evolution cause to accept it is to accept that God does not exis, and it will end the debate of Creationism/Intelligent Design. As of recent the church and other denominations have accepted evolution to some extend while maintaining their believe in a creator which to them will be the creator of evolution. Atheist have to end their debate with theist and concentrate on living while ignoring all theist cause not to do so leads them to ridicule. For you to be a good person you don't have to believe but once you become a believer you cease being a good person.

Quote from: "hvargas"...once you become a believer you cease being a good person.

Not necessarily.

For you to be a good person you don't have to believe but once you become a believer you cease being a good person.

Yeah, I just can't get on board with that logic.  Sounds an awful lot like the 'once you become an atheist you cease being a moral person' argument.  Realistically in day to day life, belief and non belief are simply differences of opinion.  I think that a of of believers don't think too much about why they believe or the extent that others use that unquestioned belief to their advantage and so inadvertently they end up supporting by proxy a lot of terrible shit, but doesn't make them bad people.  You might not want to hang out with them, and a lot of them can be pretty intense or jerky, but believer=cease being a good person?  Thaaaaats a little extreme for my taste.

Quote from: "pinkocommie"For you to be a good person you don't have to believe but once you become a believer you cease being a good person.

Yeah, I just can't get on board with that logic.  Sounds an awful lot like the 'once you become an atheist you cease being a moral person' argument.  Realistically in day to day life, belief and non belief are simply differences of opinion.  I think that a of of believers don't think too much about why they believe or the extent that others use that unquestioned belief to their advantage and so inadvertently they end up supporting by proxy a lot of terrible shit, but doesn't make them bad people.  You might not want to hang out with them, and a lot of them can be pretty intense or jerky, but believer=cease being a good person?  Thaaaaats a little extreme for my taste.

I second this. A lot of Christians I know are really more apatheistic as far as behavior goes. They aren't religious or judgemental, and are even quite liberal, not that you must be liberal to be a good person either.

We need to define what the word " GOOD ". In every day used of it we can related to taste and that can become a matter of opinion, of the " likes and dislike ". We can then move to a dictionary definition and so on. When looking in terms of theology and others belief the word " Good " takes a different turn in its definitions. Are there " good christians or theist " the answer is NO when the word is taken into the realm of " BELIEVES " . What are they passing on from generations to generations is a crime towards human composition. This is not a half way thing but something complete. Atheist are also not being good in this definition cause they are let on by the only comparison that they can compare themselves to. You may say my parents were good parents and that can be true but it will not be true if their religious belief were passed on to you. It created a psychological profile along with many unconscious behaviours that made you the person that  you are today. You can denied it to yourself or you can accept it and investigate yourself or what I tell some " you need to re-educate yourself ". There's a lot of garbage that has been  passed on to you even if you call yourself an atheist or whatever you may define yourself as being. The Mind must be cleanse of all that has been injected not only through heredity but also through social upbringing and when you accomplished this you get to a place where you are able to see what has been kept from you. Still living in this world but no one can fool you and at that point there are no choices cause there's only one. This is where you are or become " A GOOD PERSON ". Once you choose in selecting the choices which the world is presenting you with it lures you into that blind world where it constantly reenforsces all that it has practice to keep you trapped. You choose to be an atheist and this is another choice that it allows you to select just like the theist. You think you have the true and therefore think it correct, while someone else finds that its false and therefore incorrect. For this reason the atheist does not know exactly why it does not believe and thus negates the rest of existences. Redefine your defintion of " GOOD " and redefine yourself as to how you fit in that definition.

So, not only are my parents not good people, but because they're theists, neither am I. Great. You really know how to get people to want to know what the hell you're talking about so they can argue your point of view on it's merit, if it has any. Even the most strictly logically structured argument has room for tact, but you've offered us neither.

Btw, there's nothing wrong with my definition of "GOOD", tyvm. Perhaps some reevaluation is called for on your part.

Quote from: "hvargas"You may say my parents were good parents and that can be true but it will not be true if their religious belief were passed on to you. It created a psychological profile along with many unconscious behaviours that made you the person that  you are today. You can denied it to yourself or you can accept it and investigate yourself or what I tell some " you need to re-educate yourself ". There's a lot of garbage that has been  passed on to you even if you call yourself an atheist or whatever you may define yourself as being. The Mind must be cleanse of all that has been injected not only through heredity but also through social upbringing and when you accomplished this you get to a place where you are able to see what has been kept from you.

Sooo...what does it mean when I'm an atheist raised by atheists and I disagree with you?  Maybe you need to re-educate yourself...

There are ways of knowings just what you really believe in or how strong you are in your believes. Let me asked you this question " do you believe that there had been " GREAT NATIONS " and " GREAT MEN/WOMEN " on PLANET EARTH ? The answer to this is a very BIG NO. Look into what all such great civilizations had done and what so called great men/women had really done.