Happy Atheist Forum

I wasn't really sure where to start this thread but I would like for it to serve as just a general resource on the science of Aspergers and Autism as well as a discussion area for people with it or would like to learn more about it if that's okay with you, Whitney.  :headbang: It's not something I think generally needs "fixing" or therapy especially if you're able to function well and are completely happy with your life.  I came across this article and don't know if I agree with it. I don't think special treatment was ever necessary for me as a child. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123527833

I know people who have Aspergers/Autism.  From my understanding there is a statistically greater chance of producing a child with aspergers if the parents are both good in math.  I think this explains why there is a marked increase of Aspergers in the freethought community since being good at math would also be associated with applying logic.

Do you think this might be more helpful if it were in the parenting section?  Aspergers is one of those challenges someone can have without it being obvious and there are probably a lot of parents who don't even know they need to help their child be aware of why they are a little bit different so that they can learn how to adjust as is necessary to have social interactions.

Also, I know a couple people who are able to get along well with others in social settings but absolutely do not work well on group projects then don't understand why people get upset with them (even after the specifics of why people are upset are pointed out).  Could it be possible that they memorized how to act in a social setting and are actually somewhere on the autistic spectrum?  I'm just curious because it would make it easier to work with them if I knew why they don't work well with others.  Whatever these people are, they either aren't diagnosed or aren't revealing that they are diagnosed with something.

Yes, I have been diagnosed with Asperger's. To be absolutely honest about it I just don't give a damn. Okay, so that's what it's called. I see a psychiatrist twice a year, I take my pills for depression and anxiety and I take my sleeping pills and I just go about being myself. Not really all that big a deal when you think about all the really dire things that a lot of other people have to deal with.

Edit:  I know what it's like to struggle with being different and messed up, being alone and wondering how everyone else handles all this people stuff so well, and I don't mean to belittle any of that. It's just that eventually you've got to move beyond that and decide that it's actually okay to be weird, and fly your freak flag high.

I think I'm slightly autistic. I spend most of my free time looking through option chains and calculating profit / loss on hypothetical bets. Today I found some stats for historical total market capitalization for the AMEX, NYSE and NASDAQ exchanges. I just had to divide that by historical nominal US gross domestic product. Apart from HAF and one other forum, spreadsheets and numbers are what I spend most of my free time on.

I wish my parents had recognized this... I taught myself how to program computers when I was 8. I just read the manual with no help from anyone. 1 year later I wrote a video game for my younger brother. How many 8 year olds could do that?

I've given up on therapy. And psychiatrists are so fast to prescribe. I figure I'm not broken; it's the world that's broken. The secret to escaping my mental illness was to realize I'm not ill. I'm abnormal. Fuck the world: I like being abnormal.

Quote from: "AlP"I think I'm slightly autistic. I spend most of my free time looking through option chains and calculating profit / loss on hypothetical bets. Today I found some stats for historical total market capitalization for the AMEX, NYSE and NASDAQ exchanges. I just had to divide that by historical nominal US gross domestic product. Apart from HAF and one other forum, spreadsheets and numbers are what I spend most of my free time on.

I wish my parents had recognized this... I taught myself how to program computers when I was 8. I just read the manual with no help from anyone. 1 year later I wrote a video game for my younger brother. How many 8 year olds could do that?

I've given up on therapy. And psychiatrists are so fast to prescribe. I figure I'm not broken; it's the world that's broken. The secret to escaping my mental illness was to realize I'm not ill. I'm abnormal. Fuck the world: I like being abnormal.

Nothing wrong with taking the meds. I  love my pills! They work, you know.

^ Which meds? I was on major tranquilizers and anti-depressants for years. The doctors were trying to make me "normal". That seems to be what they try to do. What they didn't understand was that to be happy I just had to accept that not being "normal" is not necessarily a problem.

Quote from: "AlP"I think I'm slightly autistic. I spend most of my free time looking through option chains and calculating profit / loss on hypothetical bets. Today I found some stats for historical total market capitalization for the AMEX, NYSE and NASDAQ exchanges. I just had to divide that by historical nominal US gross domestic product. Apart from HAF and one other forum, spreadsheets and numbers are what I spend most of my free time on.

I wish my parents had recognized this... I taught myself how to program computers when I was 8. I just read the manual with no help from anyone. 1 year later I wrote a video game for my younger brother. How many 8 year olds could do that?

I've given up on therapy. And psychiatrists are so fast to prescribe. I figure I'm not broken; it's the world that's broken. The secret to escaping my mental illness was to realize I'm not ill. I'm abnormal. Fuck the world: I like being abnormal.

I do some programming too. Mostly PHP stuff. Video games sound a lot more challenging.

I don't know how much one can rely on online tests but these ones claim to be pretty accurate if you want to give it a try:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html

http://www.asperger-syndrome.me.uk/

Quote from: "Whitney"Do you think this might be more helpful if it were in the parenting section?

That would be decent fit.

QuoteAlso, I know a couple people who are able to get along well with others in social settings but absolutely do not work well on group projects then don't understand why people get upset with them (even after the specifics of why people are upset are pointed out). Could it be possible that they memorized how to act in a social setting and are actually somewhere on the autistic spectrum? I'm just curious because it would make it easier to work with them if I knew why they don't work well with others. Whatever these people are, they either aren't diagnosed or aren't revealing that they are diagnosed with something.

It's possible. Explaining why something upsets you wouldn't necessarily make me understand because I expect people to see things my way after I've done explained it. And by that I mean not just looking at things through both perspectives but completely agree with me and why I never agreed with you in the first place. This could just be more about my personality than having Aspergers. Another part of why I don't work well with others is because I don't communicate effectively in person and even attempting to do so is a chore unless I know you well.

Quote from: "i_am_i"I see a psychiatrist twice a year, I take my pills for depression and anxiety and I take my sleeping pills and I just go about being myself. Not really all that big a deal when you think about all the really dire things that a lot of other people have to deal with.

Edit: I know what it's like to struggle with being different and messed up, being alone and wondering how everyone else handles all this people stuff so well, and I don't mean to belittle any of that. It's just that eventually you've got to move beyond that and decide that it's actually okay to be weird, and fly your freak flag high.

I agree that it is not big deal. It seems to have more advantages than disadvantages.

Quote from: "AlP"^ Which meds? I was on major tranquilizers and anti-depressants for years. The doctors were trying to make me "normal". That seems to be what they try to do. What they didn't understand was that to be happy I just had to accept that not being "normal" is not necessarily a problem.

I really needed the meds. I was profoundly unhappy, prone to panic attacks and deep despair, couldn't sleep and was just generally miserable. I used to self-medicate with all kinds of dope and alcohol. I lived in a constant pot-haze. So, I'll stick with my meds.

Quote from: "Sophus"I don't know how much one can rely on online tests but these ones claim to be pretty accurate if you want to give it a try:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html

http://www.asperger-syndrome.me.uk/

I didn't find a test in the second link, only another link to the first one. Anyway, I scored 40 on that test.

From the site:

QuoteIn the first major trial using the test, the average score in the control group was 16.4. Eighty percent of those diagnosed with autism or a related disorder scored 32 or higher.

 lol

As a musician Asperger's has served me well in two ways. First, music is all I've ever really cared about and it has always come easy to me, and second, odd behavior in my business goes pretty much unnoticed. In fact it's kind of expected, especially from jazz drummers!

My friend's family runs the Stynchula Foundation (http://www.stynchulafoundation.org/). They do all kinds of charities to benefit autism research.

Quote from: "elliebean"

Quote from: "Sophus"I don't know how much one can rely on online tests but these ones claim to be pretty accurate if you want to give it a try:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html

http://www.asperger-syndrome.me.uk/

I didn't find a test in the second link, only another link to the first one. Anyway, I scored 40 on that test.

From the site:

QuoteIn the first major trial using the test, the average score in the control group was 16.4. Eighty percent of those diagnosed with autism or a related disorder scored 32 or higher.

Yeah, I scored 36 but I don't think I have Asperger's, I'm just horribly anti-social and awkward.  

I haven't been diagnosed yet but according to the doc I might as well be, he wants to be sure but I have all the indicators for it except for the good at math part. I'm actually terrible at math however, excuse my arrogance, the average consensus of my skill with  literature, biology and anything else that isn't related to math ( so I suck at physics and chemistry) is that I always excel above everyone else, assuming I can focus on the class long enough to care. I have ADD as well, it hasn't gotten any better since I was a kid. I could be in an argument one moment and be eating ice cream talking about how great my day was not even a second later.

I took an autism test a while back. In fact I posted it here and a lot of us took it! It was just for fun. I read the symptoms of autism immediately before taking the test so I regard the results as largely meaningless. I seem to remember I was at the autistic end of the spectrum for what it's worth.

I was diagnosed with low-functioning Aspergers/high-functioning autism when I went through treatment for PTSD.  It made so many things in my past make sense.  Things like why I became homeless but had a full ride National Merit scholarship plus a half dozen others suddenly made sense.  I have major meltdowns when the rules suddenly change on me and my parents leaving was too big a change for me to handle gracefully.

A "normal" smart kid would have couch surfed with relatives or something until fall and then started college.

Being autistic probably increased the amount of time I spent homeless.  I was completely naive and blindly walked into dangerous situations, often by taking people literally.  And if my initial situation cased meltdown, the rapes and assaults and other horrible, unfamiliar situations common to homelessness brought on a dissociative reaction and froze me.  I probably would have tested as a low-functioning autistic at that point.

I'm writing a little bit about being autistic now, in a memoir and I just found myself describing neurotypical people as "somewhat like Clever Hans plus a vocabulary of several thousand words."  Of course I first explained a little about Clever Hans, how the horse could tell what his trainer wanted or which math answer was correct by reading his body language, his expression, and his tone of voice - all so skillfully that his trainer didn't realize the horse was doing it.

In my experience, "normal" people just barely listen to what is being said.  They appear to focus on and react to the tone of voice, facial expressions, and body language far more than they do to words.  I first concluded this when I went to the doctor with a couple of broken bones (thumb and wrist).  I said that I thought it was broken because I fell on it very hard on the ice, it hurt a lot, there were unfamiliar painful lumps, and because the hand made crunchy, grindy noises when moved which coincided with a lot of pain and that the hand and wrist had not previously made such noises.  I had had broken bones before and the sensation was similar.  All of these things suggested to me that it was broken. I'm positive that if someone related those points to me, I would assume that they at least actually thought they had a broken bone.  However, he just manipulated the hand in an agonizing way, said that it couldn't be broken, and had the assistant get me an ace bandage.  I asked for some kind of painkiller but was told to take some ibuprofen.  

I ended up going to the hospital when the hand swelled up and turned odd colors.  An x-ray showed it was broken in two places, the wrist and the thumb.  Later, I found out that my original doctor had thought I was exhibiting drug-seeking behavior and lying about my injury because I didn't display the proper reactions.  I guess I was supposed to have made some non-word vocalizations in response to the pain and my speech should have sounded like I was in pain.  To me, it made it clear that my words were almost meaningless to him.  I found it distressing that a doctor would be so reliant on body language that he would be unable to properly interpret the English language, especially when I had so clearly presented my concerns.  

This led me to do more people watching and to examine how people seem to interpret what other people say.  I had known for a long time that I must make an attempt at imitating normal body language and facial expressions but I had never really examined or expected how much more important those things are to neurotypicals than words are.    

I wonder if this is why some "normals" can't or won't communicate with the written word?  Perhaps they can't understand enough of the language without the animal signals?

Quote from: "Kylyssa"This led me to do more people watching and to examine how people seem to interpret what other people say.  I had known for a long time that I must make an attempt at imitating normal body language and facial expressions but I had never really examined or expected how much more important those things are to neurotypicals than words are.    

I wonder if this is why some "normals" can't or won't communicate with the written word?  Perhaps they can't understand enough of the language without the animal signals?

Maybe so. I much prefer the written word over verbal communication for several reasons. One being I can plan out everything I'm going to say and don't make a mess of things (as I usually do). Everyone else I know prefers to "chat". Especially on those pesky telephones.    Writing and wording things eloquently may be too boring and studious a task for folks.

I've had similar instances such as yours, but no where near as severe. But likewise, ever since I've been rather good at taking mental not to consistently fake or exaggerate emotions like others in public. It comes naturally with loved ones or friends, but some reason I'm in a different mode when around strangers or mere acquaintances.

I do well enough making the expected faces and voice tones in more-or-less normal circumstances, I just can't seem to do it if I am suffering a major distraction.  Also, I don't have the volume of observations of what sounds, tones of voice and facial expressions are correct for when one is in pain that I have for normal, everyday occurrences.  I have seen others in pain but I have always been too distracted by providing aid to make note of the way they sounded and behaved.

I suppose you've all read about mercury in childhood vaccinations leading to higher cases of autism. I originally started hearing about Mercury through Billy Corgan's music, and I wondered why he seemed to have such an obsession with Mercury, the word appears several times in most of his albums. When I heard his little brother Jesse is autistic I thought I had it figured out. Come to find out recently that Billy himself suffered from both Mercury and Lead poisoning, and probably has Aspergers himself. Anyway, cos of Billy I've had my ear out about mercury for a long time and a few years ago I saw some weird late night info-science-show on late night NJN (I think.) It was all about this theory about childhood vaccines and autism. I goggled autism and mercury together and the first hit was excellent so I'm posting it. This is both great information for people with aspergers and autism as well as potential parents and I'll repost this link in parenting too.

http://www.naturalnews.com/011764.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/011764.html

The above webpage is very informative to anyone who might have kids ever. It's about how mercury in childhood vaccines can cause autism and aspergers. Which is basically just another way of saying "Someone with mercury poisoning." This information is still sort of hidden, and I strongly advise you to read the above material. And please ask your doctor for mercury/thimerosal free vaccines for yourselves and your children, and please tell your brothers and sisters so you can help protect your nieces and nephews. Oh, and your neighbors, coworkers, and friends.

Yours K. Kid

Hi K Kid. I don't think I've met yout. Hi

From the FDA:
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccin ... 096228.htm (http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/ucm096228.htm)

Autism/aspergers is not a word for mercury poisoning nor is there any valid reason to link them to vaccines.

It's just a bunch of hype based on nothing but vague assumptions because parents of autistic children had to find someone to blame.

Quote from: "Kidnapkid"I goggled autism and mercury together and the first hit was excellent so I'm posting it. This is both great information for people with aspergers and autism as well as potential parents and I'll repost this link in parenting too.

If I'm reading that article correctly, I can only say that "great information" should more rightly be written as "great misinformation" or "great scaremongering".

The article keeps mentioning 1999 and goes to some lengths to try and intimate that products produced before that date were still being distributed up to 3 years later.  What it omits is that even if providing of mercury-preserved vaccines was only finally stopped in 2001, that explains nothing since all infant vaccines have been mercury/thimerisol-free since then and yet the rate of incidence continues to rise.  That variable was changed and the outcome did not.  Add to that the fact that the only study to provide any kind of link has been definitively shown to have been fraudulent, there is not a single bit of data showing any kind of link.

The mercury/thimerisol situation is being taken extremely religiously by those that are proponents of the claim; unfortunately to the detriment of both the children and society as a whole due to the destruction of "herd immunity" that can be seen with a sufficient number of vaccinated individualt.

The "studies" linking autism to vaccines have been discredited.  The major one just recently was discredited when it was uncovered that the sampling used was bad - if I recall correctly, the study was done on just twelve children whose parents suspected that vaccination had caused their children's problems.  Which just proves that autistic children that have been vaccinated still have autism.

My father has autism.  He's 77 years old and got no vaccines until he got into the Army.  I'm pretty sure that those vaccinations did not retroactively give him autism as a child.  One of his cousins was severely autistic.  I am autistic. So I'm suspecting a genetic component here.    

People probably get more mercury from eating fish than from vaccines.  

Because of the scaremongering about vaccines causing autism, there have been outbreaks of measles.  The decision to not vaccinate your child not only affects your child, it affects children too young to get vaccinated that your child infects.  If a person chooses to have their children not vaccinated, I think that they should be required to homeschool and avoid day cares and other activities involving exposure to other children.

I moved kid's other topic claiming a autism/vaccine link into this thread because I didn't feel that a topic proclaiming false information was appropriate for the parenting section for fear that some naive parent would choose not to vaccinate their child.

Quote from: "Whitney"I moved kid's other topic claiming a autism/vaccine link into this thread because I didn't feel that a topic proclaiming false information was appropriate for the parenting section for fear that some naive parent would choose not to vaccinate their child.

Good plan, I had tried to answer as rapidly as I could on that topic since I hate to see bogus claims sitting out there unaddressed with regards to reality.  It was very much in the "someone is wrong on the internet" category for me:

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgs.xkcd.com%2Fcomics%2Fduty_calls.png&hash=b7375376f17d6d846063de7f89f87b7a574519a9)

Quote from: "Whitney"I moved kid's other topic claiming a autism/vaccine link into this thread because I didn't feel that a topic proclaiming false information was appropriate for the parenting section for fear that some naive parent would choose not to vaccinate their child.

Great idea.  I know that people who perpetuate this myth are doing so out of concern, but it's a really terrible practice to skip vaccinations for your kid.

Why Autism is the Key to the Mind and Why Philosopher's Should Take Note (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-imprinted-brain/201006/why-autism-is-the-key-the-mind-and-why-philosophers-should-take-note)

Or should I have posted this under Philosophy?  

The link to austism and any vaccines are less about science and more about needing something to blame.  There are two big papers in the austism-vaccinations world - one targeting the MMR vaccine.  This was a paper published by a guy named Wakefield and some colleagues.  Well, it later turned out he had doctored some of his numbers and also had a deal with a pharmaceutical company for a competing "safer" vaccine.  The paper was retracted by the journal and all the authors except Wakefield.  However due to the paper and the panic it caused, the U.K. stopped using that particular vaccine in the late 90's. Guess what?  Austim rates did NOT decrease but actually increased - however, as other papers have pointed out this is most likely not an increase in actual incidence but a reflection of technological and methodological advancements as well as more people having access to medical professionals and more common knowledge about such disorders.

The link between thimerosal and austism is not there either.  One paper that is constantly cited appeared in a non-reviewed journal (although they have since changed their policies of late I believe) called Medical Hypotheses.  However, other reviews of the evidence have not found any link between the use of vaccines with thimerosal in them and autism in children.  Thimerosal has been removed from infant vaccines for years now due to pressure from advocate groups and impressionable and decidedly NOT scientific members of congress even in the light of a extensive CDC study which concluded there was NO evidence for a link.  This is why I hate sleek looking internet sites which are not out to provide solid, scientific information but to push an agenda (such as a fight against big Pharma), sell a product (Dr. SoandSo's book) or both. Here's some scientific references in peer-reviewed journals to take a gander at:

Hviid, A. et al. (2003). Association Between Thimerosal-Containing Vaccine and Autism.  Journal of the American Medical Association, 290, 1763-1766.

"The results do not support a causal relationship between childhood vaccination with thimerosal-containing vaccines and development of autistic-spectrum disorders."

Nelson, K. & Bauman, M. (2003). Thimerosal and austism?  Pediatrics, 111, 674-679.

"On the basis of current evidence, we consider it improbable  that thimerosal and autism are linked."

A study in 2008 by a couple of researchers claims that (albeit they acknowledge the possible moderation of confounds upon their results)thimerosal containing vaccines were linked with the appearence of some developmental disorders in speech and thinking as well as autism and personality disorders (quite a wide array of stuff there).  The article was published in the International Journal of Toxicity (Grier & Grier (2008).  Neurodevelopmental Disorders Following Thimerosal-Containing Childhood Immunizations: A Follow-Up Analysis.  International Journal of Toxicity 23(6), 369 - 376).  HOWEVER, they performed a study on data using the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) - that is a kid gets a vaccine and then something goes wrong and it's reported.  Since thimerosal was a widely utilized preservative in vaccines it would make sense that it would pop up in the system many times.  Their angle was to show that the number of developmental disorders were at a significant rate compared to the use of a thimerosal-free vaccine verson - bottom line: bad design, piss poor planning and control of confounding factors.

However, they seem to ignore studies such as the one from a Danish population which discontinued use of thimerosal vaccines:

Madsen, K et al. (2003). Thimerosal and the Occurrence of Autism: Negative Ecological Evidence From Danish Population-Based Data.  Pediatrics, 112, 604-606.

"The discontinuation of thimerosal-containing vaccines in Denmark in 1992 was followed by an increase in the incidence of autism. Our ecological data do not support a correlation between thimerosal-containing vaccines and  the incidence of autism."

So if thimerosal was the culprit, why did Denmark see and INCREASE in austim?  Same situation with the U.K. and the discontinuation of the MMR vaccine.

Even large meta-analyses found no conclusion (looking at the published literature from 1966 to 2004):

Parker, D. et al. (2004). Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines and  Autistic Spectrum Disorder: A Critical Review of Published Original Data.  Pediatrics, 114, 793-804.:

"Studies do not demonstrate a link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and ASD, and the pharmacokinetics of ethylmercury make such an association less likely. Epidemiologic studies that support a link demonstrated significant design flaws that invalidate their conclusions. Evidence does not support a change in the standard of practice with regard to administration of thimerosal-containing vaccines in areas of the world where they are used."

A large inquiry into the vaccine-autism scare by the Immunization Safety Review Committee [(2004) Immunization Safety Review: Vaccines and Autism.  Washington, D.C.: National Academies Press] found no link and the inquiry was more in depth and larger than any other published papers on the subject:

"The committee concludes that the body of epidemiological evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between the MMR vaccine and autism. The committee also concludes that the body of epidemiological evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism."

The Natural News website is ran by Truth Publishing International, a publisher of a whole pile of pseudo-scientific, alternative medicine junk and supported by natural medicine activists who have more of a problem with coporate pharmaceutical companies than they do finding actual medical therapies for diseases and disorders.

There's some of the evidence, you make the call.  If you're a parent - they're your children you make that call on the vaccine thing.  But I would encourage all parents to make an informed decision based upon current scientific knowledge and not the agenda of a publishing company's website or the like.

Excellent post, Squid!

I wonder if people feel the need to blame their childrens' autism on an outside force because a genetic or developmental cause would make them feel guilty?  

I get about a comment a week or a contact via PM on my Aspergers page telling me about this or that "cure" or blaming vaccinations for my autism.  On other pages, I leave contrary posts up in the comments (so long as there's no profanity included to mess up my child-safe rating) but on my Aspergers page, I remove comments with misinformation links and those that discuss vaccination as if it were a cause of autism.  Some people have gotten quite angry when I removed their comments and have accused me of not having an open mind about the causes of autism.  Some have gone so far as to tell me that my "mental retardation" due to autism prevents me from considering vaccines as a cause of autism.

I do think a lot of it has to do with needing someone/something to blame - it's a natural reaction especially for parents.  And blaming evil, faceless corporations or the government is easy to do.  However, those who push bad information on the public refuse to see it can have terrible consequences.  Like with the vaccines containing ethylmercury perservatives, some parents side with alternative medicine practices of using chelation therapy (treatment for heavy metal poisoning) which is dangerous for the children - some cases of the treatment on children have been fatal.

Also, the work of Mark Geier (see the paper of his I cited earlier and I also think I spelled his name wrong earlier) has repeatedly been found to be methodologically unsound and purposefully vague in methodology and statistical analysis details.  Interestingly he and his son David hold a 2006 patent for using a chelating agent (Lupron) for autism treatment.  Sounds vaguely familiar to the Wakefield story doesn't it?  Even in the legal arena, Geier's shadiness has appeared -http://www.casewatch.org/civil/geier.shtml.

I too have mild autism and neuro fibromitosis type 1.

What does this mean? it means that i have a speech defect and nervous system.

There are several obvious things about autism:

1:A bit of anti social behavior.
2:Not like being touched(I hate being hugged and prefer not to be touched by anyone unless i say so)
3:concentration add(attention deficiency disorder) I took riddaline as a kid which is speed.When i got off it with all that energy i ended up crying because i no longer had this concentration i had with it.Caffeine can also help what speed did without the detrimental effects on your heart which can kill you.

I have lived my whole life with these problems of anti social behavior and desire to cut off and be alone in comfort doing my own thing.I have been told that its one of the obvious traits of the norm.

I do interact and talk to people(obviously) or else i would go insane,i just have my days of wanting to just go on my own and do my own stuff alone.

Quote from: "faith_no_more"I too have mild autism and neuro fibromitosis type 1.

What does this mean? it means that i have a speech defect and nervous system.

There are several obvious things about autism:

1:A bit of anti social behavior.
2:Not like being touched(I hate being hugged and prefer not to be touched by anyone unless i say so)
3:concentration add(attention deficiency disorder) I took riddaline as a kid which is speed.When i got off it with all that energy i ended up crying because i no longer had this concentration i had with it.Caffeine can also help what speed did without the detrimental effects on your heart which can kill you.

I have lived my whole life with these problems of anti social behavior and desire to cut off and be alone in comfort doing my own thing.I have been told that its one of the obvious traits of the norm.

I do interact and talk to people(obviously) or else i would go insane,i just have my days of wanting to just go on my own and do my own stuff alone.

I have asperger's, late diagnosis when I was 20. I enjoy being alone... but I got married and now I am almost never alone. My wife likes to do everything with me and spending all the time she can with me and rarely ever does anything without me. So I have to barter for time alone to program at home. She calls me an emotional amoeba or a robot because I have one facial expression and never really show any real emotions... she can now tell that I'm faking displays of emotion. Too many times now I've imitated the wrong emotional reaction to situations, it goes unnoticed with most other people including a lot of my family.

I was diagnosed as a kid and i don't have trouble with showing emotions,i just have little desire to socialize and sometimes i will have friends and talk a lot on msn or icq and then won't go on for 2 or 3 months.

Quote from: "i_am_i"It's just that eventually you've got to move beyond that and decide that it's actually okay to be weird, and fly your freak flag high.

+1! Very well said.

Quote from: "i_am_i"It's just that eventually you've got to move beyond that and decide that it's actually okay to be weird, and fly your freak flag high.

But that only works to a certain extent.  If you don't fake normal eye-contact and body language and try to emulate "normal" people you'll have a hard time getting a job or keeping one.  The only time it's really safe to relax is alone or perhaps with trusted friends.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"But that only works to a certain extent.  If you don't fake normal eye-contact and body language and try to emulate "normal" people you'll have a hard time getting a job or keeping one.  The only time it's really safe to relax is alone or perhaps with trusted friends.

QFT

Additionally, it can be hard to find people to make into trusted friends of that kind - they have to have the capacity to deal with the lack of social queues.

I'm usually stuck with my cats.

Do you ever hear a high pitch noise indoors sometimes when all else is quiet? I'm not sure what it is - if it's anything at all. Also whenever the television is muted I swear to [strike:2oqkmwnz]God[/strike:2oqkmwnz] the Flying Spaghetti Monster that it's not. I can't really make out what's going on but it does sound like people faintly talking.

Quote from: "Sophus"Do you ever hear a high pitch noise indoors sometimes when all else is quiet?

It could be an electrical appliance.
I have a monitor which whines if the brightness is set low with the monitor controls.
To avoid this I have to use software to lower brightness.

Quote from: "Sophus"Do you ever hear a high pitch noise indoors sometimes when all else is quiet? I'm not sure what it is - if it's anything at all. Also whenever the television is muted I swear to [strike:24e31o92]God[/strike:24e31o92] the Flying Spaghetti Monster that it's not. I can't really make out what's going on but it does sound like people faintly talking.

Tinnitus? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinnitus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinnitus)

I go through phases of this, usually when I get very stressed.

Quote from: "Sophus"Do you ever hear a high pitch noise indoors sometimes when all else is quiet? I'm not sure what it is - if it's anything at all. Also whenever the television is muted I swear to [strike:2k1v4m4s]God[/strike:2k1v4m4s] the Flying Spaghetti Monster that it's not. I can't really make out what's going on but it does sound like people faintly talking.

Yes.  I'm told that everyone has tinnitus to a greater or lesser degree.

And no, you're not going crazy about the TV; you have a faulty power attenuator.

Quote from: "Kidnapkid"http://www.naturalnews.com/011764.html

The above webpage is very informative to anyone who might have kids ever. It's about how mercury in childhood vaccines can cause autism and aspergers. Which is basically just another way of saying "Someone with mercury poisoning." This information is still sort of hidden, and I strongly advise you to read the above material. And please ask your doctor for mercury/thimerosal free vaccines for yourselves and your children, and please tell your brothers and sisters so you can help protect your nieces and nephews. Oh, and your neighbors, coworkers, and friends.

Yours K. Kid

Sorry, but this has been disproved. There are several threads over here that show plenty of evidence:
http://forums.randi.org/search.php?searchid=648258 (http://forums.randi.org/search.php?searchid=648258)

BTW, Squid you are awesome on a massive scale!
Also: http://www.stopjenny.com/ (http://www.stopjenny.com/)

Yeah, the "vaccines cause autism" crap drives me nuts.  They don't.  There's no scientific evidence that they do and there's plenty of evidence that autism is mostly genetic.  I get about four spam posts per week on vaccines or chelation on my pages about my experience with autism.  I moderate them out of existence.  People have bitched me out for not allowing opposing viewpoints but there's a difference between opposing viewpoints and the spreading of dangerous misinformation.

Quote from: "parrotpirate"BTW, Squid you are awesome on a massive scale!
Also: http://www.stopjenny.com/ (http://www.stopjenny.com/)

Why, thank ya...thank ya very much...

Unfortunately Jenny McCarthy isn't the only celeb that's parading this intellect-numbing crap.  People like Jim Carrey have hopped on-board with Jenny's craziness.  However, every so often, you get a surprise like Amanda Peet on Good Morning America a couple of years back saying, "'Please don't listen to me. Don't listen to actors. Go to the experts".  And when people go to the experts outside of the quacks I talked about earlier people will get a nearly unanimous -"no, vaccines do not cause autism".  People want to screw around in the realm of medical science who have no clue what the hell they're talking about - these jackass celebrities use their positions to influence people to not vaccinate their children and because of them, some of these kids will die from entirely preventable diseases....

http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/Jenny_McCarthy_Body_Count/Home.html

No matter how you slice it, there is no excuse for a kid dying because mommy and daddy rather listen to a celebrity then their pediatrician.

Does anyone know what the absolute origin of the "vaccinations cause autism" myth?  Like, what idiot is "patient zero", so to speak?

Quote from: "Kylyssa"Does anyone know what the absolute origin of the "vaccinations cause autism" myth?  Like, what idiot is "patient zero", so to speak?

This is a good starting point http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/ ... struck-off (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/may/24/mmr-doctor-andrew-wakefield-struck-off)

Here is a link to the GMC ruling http://www.gmc-uk.org/Wakefield_SPM_and ... 595267.pdf (http://www.gmc-uk.org/Wakefield_SPM_and_SANCTION.pdf_32595267.pdf)

Thanks for the links.  So Wakefield may be the source for this myth?

Quote from: "Kylyssa"Thanks for the links.  So Wakefield may be the source for this myth?

I do believe that he is the root of the whole bloody fiasco. Seriously he is the ground zero of this as far as I know.

This is an awesome explanation of the whole antivax affair in cute comic form in regard to Wakefield.  I'm sure there was a fringe group of antivaxxers before Wakefield lied about his unethical research, but as far as I know he is singularly responsible from turning a crazy disrespected fringe belief into a globally threatening misinformation locomotive.

http://tallguywrites.livejournal.com/148012.html

Quote from: "pinkocommie"This is an awesome explanation of the whole antivax affair in cute comic form in regard to Wakefield.  I'm sure there was a fringe group of antivaxxers before Wakefield lied about his unethical research, but as far as I know he is singularly responsible from turning a crazy disrespected fringe belief into a globally threatening misinformation locomotive.

http://tallguywrites.livejournal.com/148012.html

That was great, thanks for the link!

Great information and great links!  I'm making a little page right now that I'm writing that I hope will get traffic from anti-vaxxers and potential anti-vaxxers using SEO techniques to trick them to a page that may shake their misinformation.  

Vaccination efforts have dropped the number of worldwide measles deaths from 873,000 per year back in 1999 down to 345,000 per year in 2005.  Half a million fewer deaths per year due to vaccinations!

Don't forget to point out that the only disease totally eradicated from the human population, smallpox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox), was done by vaccination.

RE: Jim Carrey being involved in anti-vax idiocy, he might have caught the stupid from McCarthy when he was banging her. Not that's an excuse.

If stupidity is catching, I'd ought to take up celibacy.  Don't want to pass it on further.

I found an interesting story (http://www.northjersey.com/news/bergen/107154583_Autism__No_barrier_to_aiding_fallen_teen.html) about a man with Autism who saved a teens life.

QuoteEven though autism affects communication, the disability did not get in the way of Paul DeSavino.

The New Milford man went to aid of a youngster he saw lying on the ground in a New Milford park around the corner from the group home where he lives.

I wonder if the cause is the same for everybody with Aspergers.  Personality is such a complicated thing that there are any number of ways it could be messed up.  It's possible that it's a catchall diagnosis for a variety of conditions that interfere with social interaction.

Most of you who have indicated that you have Aspergers seem to communicate very well on this forum - certainly better than the average person out there.  An internet forum is a means of communication and a way to interact with others, just as face to face meetings are.  I'm curious if you Asperger people believe that you have trouble picking up written clues in this format as to what others are thinking.  The traditional list of symptoms of Aspergers includes a lack of a normal sense of humor.  Do you Asperger people indeed find that to be true in normal interactions with others, and how about on this forum and other internet conversations - do you think you have more trouble than the average person in knowing whether a poster is joking or not?  If so, does that bother you?

There was a great episode of Penn & Teller's Bullshit this last season on the topic of these morons who believe that vaccines cause autism. I think the episode is simply titled Vaccines. Recommend it, but prepare to throw some shit at your tv when some of the horrible parents who believe this nonsense, and the pediatrician who won't vaccinate and warns parents against it comes on. That episode, more than probably any other, pissed me off.

Quote from: "Wilson"Most of you who have indicated that you have Aspergers seem to communicate very well on this forum - certainly better than the average person out there.  An internet forum is a means of communication and a way to interact with others, just as face to face meetings are.

Psychologists do not use written communication level to diagnose autism.  Even some people formerly thought of as low-functioning autistics can communicate via the written word.  People with Aspergers don't tend to have too much trouble with logic and rules, we thrive on logic and rules and written language has an established convention of logic and rules.  It is emotions which people with autism have difficulty with.  It is the 50% of your language (the body language, the eye contact, the passive aggressive communication through subtext) which relies on instinct which is a trouble for us.    

Quote from: "Wilson"I'm curious if you Asperger people believe that you have trouble picking up written clues in this format as to what others are thinking.

Yes.  I often find the conversation I am having is far different from the one the other person is having.

Quote from: "Wilson"The traditional list of symptoms of Aspergers includes a lack of a normal sense of humor.

People don't seem to "get" my jokes most of the time.  And most of the time, I find their attempts at humor either incomprehensible or stupid.  

Quote from: "Wilson"Do you Asperger people indeed find that to be true in normal interactions with others,

By normal interactions do you mean face-to-face contact?  If so, it is even more true of face-to-face contact.  If I try to say something funny to a group of people, it usually meets blank stares and the laughter, if any laughter occurs, appears to be the uncomfortable kind rather than the having-found-a-joke-funny kind.  I seldom try to joke but people often laugh at what I say even when I'm being completely serious.
 

Quote from: "Wilson"and how about on this forum and other internet conversations - do you think you have more trouble than the average person in knowing whether a poster is joking or not?  If so, does that bother you?

Yes, I think I have a hard time knowing when a person is joking but I think it is easier for me on the Internet.  I can take time to read and re-read the statement.  Sometimes I cut and paste the statement and do a search to make sure I've found a joke if I think I have.  And yes, it bothers me.  I don't like it when people laugh at me.

I have a hard time reading subtext most of the time but I think I'm reading yours loud and clear, probably because I'm very familiar with the particular attitude.  Yes, just because I can communicate through the written word, it doesn't mean I'm not autistic and you likely believe it does.  I also think that maybe your use of "you Asperger people" is an insult.

For those of you who believe that autism leaves all of its victims both mute and too severely mentally retarded to use a keyboard, I suggest you look over the evidence.  People with Aspergers are often intellectually normal or sometimes, as in my case, intellectually superior.  We are able to use logic and deductive reasoning to figure things out before writing.

I think that "normal" people are actually hampered by their slavish reliance on body language, facial expressions, and eye contact when it comes to writing.  I think that many "normal" people are either unable or unwilling to admit that a person can "look normal" and still have something wrong with him or her.  

Don't be ashamed, even my doctor has the same problem.  He sent me away without an x-ray for a broken wrist and thumb because I wasn't using the correct voice tone or making the right gestures and body language.  Instead I simply told him I fell very hard on my palm, it was very painful, and the bones made a noise that was not usual when I moved the hand.  I also mentioned I had broken bones before and that the feeling was similar.  He wrapped my hand in an Ace bandage and wrote "drug seeking behavior" on my chart because I asked for something for the swelling and pain.  I later got an x-ray that showed breaks in the thumb and wrist bones.  He did not apologize when I asked him to.  He said it was my fault for not responding appropriately.  This shows me that some intelligent "normal" people are handicapped by their inability to understand communication without body language and facial expressions.  I've been practicing pain response, learning to yell "hey!" when I experience pain by poking myself with a pin and yelling, "hey!" after so I can perhaps avoid the experience of getting denied medical care because I can't make the right faces under stress.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"I have a hard time reading subtext most of the time but I think I'm reading yours loud and clear, probably because I'm very familiar with the particular attitude.  Yes, just because I can communicate through the written word, it doesn't mean I'm not autistic and you likely believe it does.  I also think that maybe your use of "you Asperger people" is an insult.

No offense intended, believe me.  Just trying to understand the nuances of the condition.  I actually like the fact that people are different from each other in such interesting ways.  In fact, I think I may have some mild Aspergers symptoms myself.

I agree completely Kylyssa!

Anyways, I came to visit this thread again to share this post about the gene that causes autism (http://crackingtheenigma.blogspot.com/2010/11/genes-for-autism-or-genes-for.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ResearchBloggingAllEnglish+%28Research+Blogging+-+English+-+All+Topics%29&utm_content=Twitter).

Quote from: "Wilson"I wonder if the cause is the same for everybody with Aspergers.  Personality is such a complicated thing that there are any number of ways it could be messed up.  It's possible that it's a catchall diagnosis for a variety of conditions that interfere with social interaction.

As a person with mild Aspergers, I don't think the cause is the same for every Aspie.  In my case, I think it relates to the fact that I was adopted at a very young age and for the first 3 months of my life, belonged to social services where I didn't get much individual attention.  I was then adopted by a single mom with untreated borderline personality disorder who, while she gave me enough physical attention, had no idea how to pick up on my emotions, mirror them and give me the right kind of emotional support - the 'right kind' meaning teaching me how to handle my emotions and express them in a healthy way, and also recognizing my emotions as part of being human, rather than criticizing, judging and completely ignoring them.  Growing up in an environment where you're constantly told your feelings are wrong can definitely mess with your head.

Quote from: "Wilson"Most of you who have indicated that you have Aspergers seem to communicate very well on this forum - certainly better than the average person out there.

In my experience with Aspie adults, myself included, most of us are fairly good to excellent communicators because clear communication and making sure we're understood is of utmost importance to us.

Quote from: "Wilson"An internet forum is a means of communication and a way to interact with others, just as face to face meetings are.  I'm curious if you Asperger people believe that you have trouble picking up written clues in this format as to what others are thinking.  The traditional list of symptoms of Aspergers includes a lack of a normal sense of humor.  Do you Asperger people indeed find that to be true in normal interactions with others, and how about on this forum and other internet conversations - do you think you have more trouble than the average person in knowing whether a poster is joking or not?  If so, does that bother you?

I think I'm actually better at picking up nuances in the written word than I am in person.  Short of the fact that I have mild Aspergers, I really don't know how to explain why that's the case.  Having mild AS, though, I'm usually just fine with picking up on sarcasm and humor in person.  What I usually tend to miss are the subtle facial expressions people sometimes use to convey meaning.  For example, yesterday at work, I was having lunch with some women co-workers in the staff cafeteria when a male teacher came in who they both don't like.  They greeted him, and once he was out of their eyeline, exchanged a look between them that I couldn't pick up on.  They had to explain it to me later in the day.  I guess because I've had a natural aptitude for writing and verbal communication from an early age, I think that's why I'm better at picking up those cues.  Whereas I'm not so good at picking up facial expressions and body language to understand other things people might be trying to convey.

An interesting article in Psychology Today published, erm... today. Imagine A World Where Aspergers Was the Norm (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/aspergirls/201012/imagine-world-where-aspergers-was-the-norm). She writes:

QuoteLet's try it: Those who feel the need to constantly be with a variety of friends are considered fickle. Those with no propensity for computers and science are called geeks. Those with no special interest are thought to be ungrounded and lost. Those without obsessive focus have to take classes to cultivate it.

Those who insist on saying ‘have a nice day' and other polite exchanges of fairly empty niceties are taught to be honest and say what they think. People who go to shake hands are simply thought unhygienic. And of course, you would never be expected to hug someone just because they shared an ancestor or a common acquaintance.

Teens who live for the mall are not as cool as those who read, write, draw, invent and play instruments all day. People who feel the need to dress like others are conformist and unimaginative. Girls who spend hours a day straightening their hair are recommended for counseling. People who never rock or squeal in public are considered repressed. People who talk about what other people are up to are gossips, while those who monologue are fountains of knowledge to be shared by anyone who cares to listen.

And then says:

QuoteAre you offended by this post? Does it sound strangely bigoted to you? Why? We aspies are expected to take social skills classes. We are expected to be team players. We are called geeks because we can throw together a system after just reading a manual or watching one Youtube video. We are weird because we can recite the entire script of the Holy Grail, or name every saxophone player of consequence in the history of jazz.

Absolutely brilliant!  

I'm wary of anything on the HuffPo science related but apparently there has been some ground made in the research of what causes Autism (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/autism-research-discovery_b_794967.html). It ends with this:

Quote from: "Mark Hyman, MD"[youtube:1yajft39]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XimasKn9Bmo[/youtube:1yajft39]

What do you think about a comprehensive approach to autism treatment? Do you think autism is "all in the head" or a systemic disorder that can be reversed? Do you have an autism story to share yourself? Please leave your thoughts or your story by adding a comment below.