Happy Atheist Forum

I find myself both loving and hating Twilight. I've always been attracted to tortured characters. (Grumpy bear was my favorite Care Bear, Raphael my favorite turtle, Gladiator my favorite movie, etc.) But Edward and Bella just make me want to smack people. (Particularly Bella.) Okay, so I've had my fair share of asshole boyfriends, but Bella's simpering whinny, teen angst filled moroseness drives me crazy. Edward I like sometimes, in my opinion vampires are sort of supposed to be jerks. Lestat was the jerk of all jerks and much more fun. I get that the books are supposed to be for teens and written by a Mormon, but I keep expecting to see emo kids in every corner of New Moon cutting them selves with rusty razors. A pink lady bic. (Hey, how many emo kids does it take to screw in a light bulb? None they just sit in the dark and cry about it.)

I mean as far as teen books go I'm all for Twilight, the 1st, 3rd and 4th books were pretty okay, no Austen, (like Meyers was going for) but not bad reads. New Moon though, drives me batshit crazy! At least it isn't Gossip Girl. I'm sickened by all the books marketed to teens that promote sex and drugs, and being shitty to your "friends." Parent's never read what they're kids are into any more. I can't count how many parents I've talked out of buying gossip girl books because I don't feel they have good messages for tweens and teens. What ever happened to the Secret Garden? I'm not advocating super wholesomeness, kids will rebel, but I just think there is a lot of horrible messages being put into today's youth literature. Sometimes I feel like the upcoming generation are being brainwashed to be brain dead fashionistas with no care for others completely driven by their own selfishness.

New Moon (accidentally I feel) is showing teen girls that it's okay to depend on a man for everything. That without that one special person everything, family, friends, school work, jobs, what have you,means nothing when you're dumped. Let's cry for five months and maybe if I wish hard enough Bobby will come back to me. Meyers wrote Bella into jumping off a cliff because she wanted to hallucinate Edwards face telling her to be a good girl! Great!!! All you dissatisfied teens can follow me! All your heroes and friends are jumping off cliffs, let's kill ourselves cos no one loves us.

Feminism is dead, and Bella killed it.

And I like the books... What is wrong with me? Quick! I need an IV of Pride and Prejudice Stat!!! At least Lizzy had the courage to stand up for herself, and reject Mr. Darcy when she thought he was being a Jerk and he was the one who had to do the changing. Edward and Bella just don't grow into strong characters. He really is a soul sucking vampire. Let's sic Lestat on him. Show him what a real vampire is capable of.

I live in Washington state.  We used to go to the quaint little undiscovered Forks and camp.  Holy smokes, did that town undergo a change.  Even the locksmith sells Twilight paraphenalia.  It's weird.

I read all the books.  I agree that they tend to promote weak female role models.  Bella doesn't have a drive or seem to want anything in her life other than "her man."  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZwM3GvaTRM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZwM3GvaTRM) is a commentary on that...with over a million views.  Buffy the Vampire Slayer vs Edward.  Now THAT is a positive role model for young girls!  Also, a lot more entertaining IMHO.

Quote from: "Puddinhead"I live in Washington state.  We used to go to the quaint little undiscovered Forks and camp.  Holy smokes, did that town undergo a change.  Even the locksmith sells Twilight paraphernalia.  It's weird.

I read all the books.  I agree that they tend to promote weak female role models.  Bella doesn't have a drive or seem to want anything in her life other than "her man."  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZwM3GvaTRM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZwM3GvaTRM) is a commentary on that...with over a million views.  Buffy the Vampire Slayer vs Edward.  Now THAT is a positive role model for young girls!  Also, a lot more entertaining IMHO.

That was a pretty funny little video. I am a big fan of the original Buffy movie. (But then again like many girls who came of age in the 90's I totally had it for Luke Perry. What ever happened to him?) But I always thought it was cool that it was the dude who was the damsel in distress in the movie, though towards the end he was holding his own pretty well. I must admit that I've never seen more than a few Buffy TV episodes. I'm guessing that clips used in the youtube video either involved Angel or that fake Brit Spike.

Some of Meyers plot seems to me to be borrowed from full on vampire romance novels. I read this one about Kit Marlow being transformed on the verge of death, then years later falling for a human woman who's a vegetarian and has an over powering scent.  "Kiss Me Forever" by Rosemary Laurey.

Werewolf and Vamp romances have been gaining popularity even before Twilight, and I think Meyers was taking advantage of that when she wrote Twilight. There was a whole generation of people who fell for Lestat after the "Interview with a Vampire" movie came out, and after Rice became born-again and started writing about Jesus there was this big hole left to be filled. So you get people like Amanda Ashley and Christine Feehan out there writing quality vampire romances. Meyers could learn a thing or two from them about writing strong female leading ladies. Feehan in particular uses elements that turn up in Twilight. She's got good vampires "The Carpathians" who fight the urge to kill humans, and become bonded with their intended. If a Carpathian does kill a human that person becomes a Vampire and as such is hunted. In a few books of her books there is even the ability to read minds. (She doesn't only write about Vampires and her Ghostwalker series is really detailed and interesting from a science fiction point of view.) Ashley writes about bout Vampires and shape shifters and even has one with Dracula himself in the male lead.

Course everyone is, at heart, ripping off Stoker, and that's probably a good thing. He only took a bunch of old legends and myths that he half researched and transformed them into a dry sort of narrative. Dracula is not that sexy in his work, but I think most people (read women) really wanted him to be.

I've always been fascinated with how myths and folk heroes grow and transform themselves over time. There are a lot of monsters and heroes out there growing by leaps and bounds every day. From Robin Hood  and Zorro to the Phantom (of the opera) and even good 'ol Dracula. Things start out small. An old tale of a wolfs head turns into a rebel and freedom fighter. Dracula becomes less a monster and more a sex symbol. My how things change, the paths they take and how they get there is just a fascinating as the stories themselves.

[attachment=0:23q73cdm]Vampire-Fight.jpg[/attachment:23q73cdm]

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Quote from: "quizlixx":) (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages2.fanpop.com%2Fimages%2Fphotos%2F7200000%2Ftwilight-blade-twilight-series-7218972-400-267.jpg&hash=6eb2c781bb206c006deca860f0a06136ca9e1e6d)

BWUHAHAHAHA!   lol

My main problem with Twilight is the fan club. There's at least 3 girls in my school that are obsessed. 1 even got her hair cut and colored to look like one of the vampire girls. It's this level of stupid that makes me wonder if there's going to be a Twilight religion.

I've never actually read the books, but I have major respect for the author, as writing a fantasy novel that other people will read is hard work. I've tried my hand at writing before, it wasn't pretty. I've heard from a few friends that the books are much more interesting than the movies.
As for the movies, I've seen the first and the first 15 minutes of the second.

I have to admit, I am always a little amused when people decry the corruption of youth through whatever youth culture is prevalent at the time. Books have always had unsavoury messages, some are hailed as classics, 1984, Lord of the Flies, Shakespeare's collected works, while others, like in this case Twilight, are vilified for somehow, not promoting the right sort of behaviours to people. While the obvious difference between these two sets of books, is the quality of the writing, the content in the former set is much, much darker. Almost every piece of media consumed by the young is initially pilloried, videogames, films, magazines and all the rest, but attitudes change, they become accepted. I fail to see how this criticism of Twilight is any different. Every generation sees the next generation as lacking in moral fibre and the like, this has gone on for centuries at the very least, I frequently catch myself doing it, despite being so young myself.

I hasten to add, despite what may appearances from the above post, I am not a Twilight fan. Honest

For anyone not familiar with Rifftrax, it's basically audio commentary from the former MST3K crew. For anyone not familiar with MST3K, it's basically where they watched cheesy old movies and commented over them with hilarious remarks. MST3K got cancelled, and they formed Rifftrax.  The difference is now, since they only supply the audio, they do not have to purchase licensing rights to show the movie. This means they can Riff new releases, instead of old movies no one has ever heard of.

ANYWAY, the Rifftrax for Twilight are widely regarded as the best ones the group has ever done.  Needless to say, New Moon was highly anticipated by the Rifftrax following.  I watched it tonight with my girlfriend (who is a huge fan of the books), and I am happy to say that they may have seriously out done themselves again.

I rarely plug any commercial endeavor on internet forums, but if you want a good laugh at your least favorite movies past and present, I highly recommend you check it out. They have samples on their website so you'll know what you're getting yourself into.  Not linking because google is your friend.

You might really enjoy these blog posts/conversations about Twilight (I love NPR!). They're hilarious discussions and commentaries about the writing style and what the characters are all about.

The Writing Style Of 'Twilight': We Kick Off The 'I Will If You Will' Book Club (http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2010/03/the_writing_style_of_twilight.html?sc=fb&cc=fp)
More 'Twilight': Is Bella A Sympathetic Teenager Or A Weird Marble Fetishist? (http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2010/03/more_twilight_is_bella_a_sympa.html)
'Twilight': Edward The Vampire Sulker And His Beloved: Does This Story Work? (http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2010/03/twilight_edward_the_vampire_su.html)
'Twilight' Odds And Ends: Generations, Curiosity Levels, And Summing Up (http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2010/03/twilight_odds_and_ends_generat.html)
The 'Twilight' Book Club Concludes With A Cacophonous Live Chat (http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2010/03/the_twilight_book_club_conclud.html)


Oh yes, watch the Rifftrax versions! Drop-dead hilarious. Here's a clip:
[youtube:26e8ix7j]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFSn5rs70Rc[/youtube:26e8ix7j]

The idea of cold Mormon vampire penis kills the whole thing for me.

[youtube:2h03pg2h]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L253VLwH3w[/youtube:2h03pg2h]

I'm cool with Twilight books. The movies, however... I find the cast rather un-professional, the shortcuts a bit too cheap and the fans a bit too... Teenager-ish.

I've watched this phenomena from a distance, is it worth dabbling?

Quote from: "Tank"I've watched this phenomena from a distance, is it worth dabbling?

No.

Quote from: "karadan"

Quote from: "Tank"I've watched this phenomena from a distance, is it worth dabbling?

No.

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I personally don't mind the Twilight series in the least. It's not spectacular, amazing, awesomeness of super mega ultra happy time, but I don't think it's bad. I have many friends that like Transformers 2 and Avatar but expressed some pretty intense hatred for Twilight and how awful the Twilight series is. Transformers 2 had a plot, acting talent and a script worse than the original cartoons and Avatar is the exact plot and story as Disney's Pocahontas. I can't really say that Twilight is any worse than either of those movies, but I can at least say that the plot, acting and story is much better than Transformers 2 and it's a hell of a lot more original than Avatar. So it doesn't make me feel bad if someone makes fun of me for watching and reading the Twilight series, but still it's not one of my favourites.

I do think however there is some undue bias due to the amount of teenage girls that like the series. I hated one of the last teenage girl carried movies; Titanic. It was as boring as watching toe nails grow. My point is here, don't let a bunch of screaming young girls get in the way of actually giving something a chance, because while I really thought that Titanic was a terrible waste of time, I'll never regret giving it an unbiased chance. Of course I haven't seen the latest Twilight movie, but I usually don't watch movies in the theater unless my significant other drags me or asks to go see something. But both she and I hate screaming little girls, so if we see it we'll probably wait a little while.