Happy Atheist Forum

Anyone know of any good reads on the death and resurrection claims of Jesus? I've always found it interesting that Christians spout eyewitnesses to both but I've never heard of any evidence for either. Those that wrote the Gospels surely never witnessed it so - anybody have any idea what they're talking about?

There is no agreement among the four gospels about the story of the resurection.  I don't want to bother with a link.  It's late here.

Hey Sophus!

Do you mean "the death and resurrection claims about Jesus"? I have not read any reports of (the alleged man called) Jesus claiming anything after his death.

I'm being an ass. I know almost nothing about Christianity and definitely can't answer. Just wanted to say hello.  

Why does the question interest you?

On another topic, have you read Albert Camus? He's my favorite existentialist and I know you're interested in Nietzsche. I think you would like Camus' work as well. Much more interesting than Bible.

Quote from: "AlP"Hey Sophus!

Do you mean "the death and resurrection claims about Jesus"? I have not read any reports of (the alleged man called) Jesus claiming anything after his death.

I'm being an ass. I know almost nothing about Christianity and definitely can't answer. Just wanted to say hello.  

Why does the question interest you?

On another topic, have you read Albert Camus? He's my favorite existentialist and I know you're interested in Nietzsche. I think you would like Camus' work as well. Much more interesting than Bible.

Hey A|P! Yes, Camus is wonderful! I've read L'Etranger (the John Butt translation) just recently and immediately saw the connection to his essay on Sisyphus. Good stuff! Any others amongst his work you would suggest? Oh btw, I was also surprised to learn that Albert Camus did not consider himself an Existentialist.

And I don't know why it interests me all of the sudden. Suppose I've just been hearing more claims of witnesses. Even the History channel sometimes gives it more credit than I think it deserves.

Quote from: "Sophus"Hey A|P! Yes, Camus is wonderful! I've read L'Etranger (the John Butt translation) just recently and immediately saw the connection to his essay on Sisyphus. Good stuff! Any others amongst his work you would suggest? Oh btw, I was also surprised to learn that Albert Camus did not consider himself an Existentialist.

I've only read The Stranger and The Myth of Sisyphus so it sounds like you're ahead of me. Do you have any links to translations of his other works? Yeah he thought of himself as an absurdist. But there weren't all that many well known existentialists. They can't each one of them give themselves a whole new category of their own! Well actually they can... That's kind of the point of existentialism. Won't derail thread further.

Quote from: "Sophus"Even the History channel sometimes gives it more credit than I think it deserves.

The history channel has annoyed the hell out of me lately.  I've been watching Clash of the Gods both on youtube and the history channel website.  It's interesting but it frustrates me because it frequently compares the various gods (often greek gods and heroes like Hercules and Odysseus) to the Jesus story yet treats the jesus story as absolute truth and the greek stories as almost laughable fiction.  The episode about Hades particularly irks me.  At the end of it History Channel claimed that Jesus claimed he would throw Hades into the fires of the Hell he ran, making the tragic story of Hades complete.

Now about the topic of death and resurrection.  If you think about what many Christians claim that Jesus is God.  Does that mean God died(w00t) and it took himself 3 days to get his shit together?  Also the bible was written years after the events supposedly took place.  It was written by unknown authors and the names, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were attached to it much later to make it seem more credible.  If you want to argue the route of authenticity then the bible is a translation of a translation of a translation of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of hearsay of hearsay of hearsay of hearsay.  The bible wasn't written until 50+ years after Jesus's supposed death, and we don't have any of the originals.  So we don't even know what was actually said and if it depicts any truth.  We just have stories by nameless authors lost in history.  No real witnesses.

Now say that you don't want to argue that.  The Resurrection story isn't unique to Christianity by any measure.  Pagan culture has many resurrections stories.  The most notable would probably be that of Hercules.  The hero who spent his life repenting (where as Jesus told others to) for the killing of his wife and children which wasn't his fault.  Hercules was the son of Zeus the King of the gods (Jesus was son to Yahweh the supposed one true god king of kings).  At the end of Hercules tasks he committed suicide by burning himself alive (Jesus didn't leave while he had the chance).  After Hercules burned his flesh away (thats right he made his own funeral pyre and lit himself on fire) his father Zeus saw that he had suffered enough and he ascended to Olympus to live with his father and the Gods (Jesus died and became a zombie 3 days later after which all the gospels have different accounts of what happened but he eventually ascended to heaven to live with his father).

Why anyone believes the Jesus story is beyond me.

Quote from: "AlP"Do you have any links to translations of his other works?

I don't - are his works online? From what I've read though it sounds like he pretty much focused on the same idea throughout his career. Even The Stranger was based off of an earlier work of his which also involved a criminal coming to peace with his approaching death. A shame Camus didn't live longer.

Quote from: "LoneMateria"The history channel has annoyed the hell out of me lately. I've been watching Clash of the Gods both on youtube and the history channel website. It's interesting but it frustrates me because it frequently compares the various gods (often greek gods and heroes like Hercules and Odysseus) to the Jesus story yet treats the jesus story as absolute truth and the greek stories as almost laughable fiction. The episode about Hades particularly irks me. At the end of it History Channel claimed that Jesus claimed he would throw Hades into the fires of the Hell he ran, making the tragic story of Hades complete.

Yeah, I'm really disappointed in it. It didn't use to be this bad.  

QuoteIf you want to argue the route of authenticity then the bible is a translation of a translation of a translation of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of hearsay of hearsay of hearsay of hearsay. The bible wasn't written until 50+ years after Jesus's supposed death, and we don't have any of the originals. So we don't even know what was actually said and if it depicts any truth. We just have stories by nameless authors lost in history. No real witnesses.

That's what I've always thought. I once had a man tell e there were over 2,000 witnesses or soemthing. I wonder if he personally made up that crap or borrowed it from  other source. Typically with things like that they're some TV preacher's bull.

Quote from: "Sophus"I don't - are his works online? From what I've read though it sounds like he pretty much focused on the same idea throughout his career. Even The Stranger was based off of an earlier work of his which also involved a criminal coming to peace with his approaching death. A shame Camus didn't live longer.

Thinking about it probably not many. The last chapter of The Myth of Sisyphus is online but most of his work is probably still covered by copyright. I'm so used to just pulling up all Nietzsche's stuff on the web! I don't actually own any of his books at all!

Quote from: "Sophus"That's what I've always thought. I once had a man tell e there were over 2,000 witnesses or soemthing. I wonder if he personally made up that crap or borrowed it from  other source. Typically with things like that they're some TV preacher's bull.

Well he lied.  If you are interested in the translations of the bible i'm a big fan of  "Misquoting Jesus" (http://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jesus-Story-Behind-Changed/dp/0060859512/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1268284880&sr=8-1)  by Bart Ehrman.  Whoever told you that either was lying to you or honestly did not know.

Quote from: "AlP"Thinking about it probably not many. The last chapter of The Myth of Sisyphus is online but most of his work is probably still covered by copyright. I'm so used to just pulling up all Nietzsche's stuff on the web! I don't actually own any of his books at all!

Nietzsche's certainly old enough for his work to be found online, but probably just the old translations. I've never read all of the older translations that I've found online because I think Walter Kauffman does such a better job of it. Are his translations online? Seems he would too recent for that to be legal yet.

Quote from: "LoneMateria"Well he lied. If you are interested in the translations of the bible i'm a big fan of "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart Ehrman. Whoever told you that either was lying to you or honestly did not know.

Ooohhhh... thanks! I love a new read!

Look up Zombie Jesus on uncyclopedia, that's one of my favourite interpretations.