Happy Atheist Forum

preface
the falsification which has been done on bible [ OT , NT ] by the hand of Jews and Christians , also the changing of the messages of Prophets " Moses and Jesus " was the main reason for the appearance of atheism . in my opinion the atheist is a person who gives his brain a space of thinking , so he sees :
1- a killer god , a racial  god , his holy book contains  scientific mistakes and contradictions , has no wisdom , must not be worshipped .
2- a weak god ( Jesus ) not capable to defend himself , must not be worshipped .
3- a sinner prophets , who did a big sins , must not be followed . and should not be a pattern for humankind .
therefore the atheist taken off the religious dress  , telling himself : " I will escape from religion to my morals  and act good with people  " .

also the evolution of knowledge and modern sciences appearance in a wrong   environment [ religion ] was helpful to disable  The spiritual part  in human . because human became capable to know the reasons of many phenomenon in nature , until he reached to  a level thinks that he is capable to control  this world . and the only part remains for him is to defeat death and become " immortal " . his interest became in two parts :
1-   body's feeding : by foods and pleasures .
2-   brain's feeding : by  knowledge and science .  
3-   spirit's feeding : …………………………………….. null .

our bodies are ( flesh and water ) from our birth until death's time , also during death's time  we are ( flesh and water ) .
which thing will depart from our bodies ?
who will take it ?
why are we unable to Prevent it ?
why he chooses this time to apply death on us ?
why he did not wait until we become very old ?
do we have the ability to Prevent it for a blink of an eye ?

((61. He is the irresistible, (watching) from above over His worshippers, and He sets guardians over you. At length, when death approaches one of you, Our angels take his soul, and they never fail in their duty. )) Surah 6

((42. It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death; and those that die not (He takes) during their sleep: those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back (from returning to life), but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed verily in this are Signs for those who reflect. )) Surah 39

----------------------------

our bodies :
Did we come to this life by our will ?
Did we choose our shapes and our image by our will ?
Did we grow from a baby to a boy to a young then an adult by our own and by our will  ?
are we capable  to avoid old age if we live ?
Do we have the ability to avoid death ?
Do we have the ability to control our body operations ?

(( 6. O man! What has seduced thee from thy Lord Most Beneficent?- 7. Him Who created thee. Fashioned thee in due proportion, and gave thee a just bias; 8. In whatever Form He wills, does He put thee together. )) Surah 82

My advice to read the beginning of this Surah 82

please : save your comments until i prove it

Quote from: "some light plz"please : save your comments until i prove it

Quote from: "some light plz"My advice to read the beginning of this Surah 82

Already did. It reminds me of the Bible.

Quote from: "some light plz"please : save your comments until i prove it

Sorry.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi86.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk86%2Fsolidsquid%2Fplissken.jpg&hash=3c179e8e2b018eb8e14eeeadbedd97117864c972)

Until now even when you became an atheist , unable to get out from the circle of Bible …
more than once " the writers of the bible lied about God and prophets "

my friends , I will show you something different above your imagination .

my regard

Quote from: "some light plz"Until now even when you became an atheist , unable to get out from the circle of Bible …

I have never been Christian or of any religion for that matter.

Quote from: "some light plz"Until now even when you became an atheist , unable to get out from the circle of Bible …
more than once " the writers of the bible lied about God and prophets "

my friends , I will show you something different above your imagination .

my regard

This may seem a little rude, since my English also isn't exactly perfect all the time, however... I really can't even understand what you say about 129/130th of the time....

so...

waa?

I think is he trying to convert us to Islam, but...?

i've gotten tired of reading his posts...use the report button if he is preaching again.

I wrote only one  verse of many verses mentioned human's stages in wombs :

(( [5] O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs). )) Surah 22

The verse directs its speech to the doubters about the resurrection !!!!

well most of my friends here are those people …,

therefore before 1400 years the holy Quran mentioned human's creation and the stages of creation in wombs . which means Allah lets the mission for science and scientists to prove it , to became strong witness against persons who does not believe in God .

and in deed professor Keith L. Moore proved that Quran is speaking the truth : [Because the staging of human embryos is complex, owing to the continuous process of change during development, it is proposed that a new system of classification could be developed using the terms mentioned in the Quran and Sunnah. The proposed system is simple, comprehensive, and conforms with present embryological knowledge. ] .
Professor Keith L. Moore added the Quranic verses about human creation to his famous book : " the Developing human " .

[youtube:3o2gvy7f]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx434UE3SYw[/youtube:3o2gvy7f]

Who did tell prophet Mohammad about it ?

Any person who has ever domesticated animals, you know raised them from birth and butchered them later for food.  

Watch your heard of goats long enough and you'll figure out a little bit of reproductive biology.

When it comes time to slaughter a few for food, you'll figure out the rest when you see the insides outside.

Its not much more than a tiny leap of the imagination to see that maybe, just maybe, human reproduction processes are similar to another mammal.

Now that I've typed this, I find myself confused as to what this has to do with resurrection.

Quote from: "Jolly Sapper"Any person who has ever domesticated animals, you know raised them from birth and butchered them later for food.  

Watch your heard of goats long enough and you'll figure out a little bit of reproductive biology.

When it comes time to slaughter a few for food, you'll figure out the rest when you see the insides outside.

Its not much more than a tiny leap of the imagination to see that maybe, just maybe, human reproduction processes are similar to another mammal.

Now that I've typed this, I find myself confused as to what this has to do with resurrection.

I want to see a clear response to your post from some light plz, otherwise I will be adequately convinced that he is just proselytizing.  I would hate to dismiss someone trying to have a real discussion or debate about these issues simply because of difficulty with communication because I want to learn about the Muslim faith from a Muslim, but it seems to me these posts are less about communication and more about preaching.  Am I wrong?

To Pinkocommie

  No your not wrong.
 

Quote from: "Whitney"i've gotten tired of reading his posts...use the report button if he is preaching again.

Haha, i never knew there was report button.  

Is it preaching if you really can't understand what the OP is trying to say? I don't think his posts are simple cut/paste. I just think he's using an awful translation program.

Either way, his posts made my eyes hurt.

As long  as you do not understand me, I will stop writing
Please Whitney : delete all my posts , thanks

To Some Light pls

   The problem is not you making yourself understood, the problem is you offering no evidence whatsoever to back up what you say.  You claim to know the truths of Allah and to know the mind of Allah, but have given no evidence whatsoever that you know the truths of Allah nor have you given any evidence to show that you know the mind of Allah.  All you have done is show that there is little difference between Islam and Christianity.  All either of you do is say "yada yada yada and that is why God is real"  without giving any evidence in the process.

 :bananacolor:

I agree with Mark, I understand your posts perfectly, I just don't understand where you're coming from.
I watched the Keith Moore vid that you posted and I got my copy of the Qu'ran out and looked up the verses that he quoted.
I don't see anything out of the ordinary.  I think Dr. Moore was kissing the butts of the people who were funding his research, to be honest.
Yes the Qu'ran says some very interesting things about how sexual reproduction works, but it isn't anything that any farmer or shepherd of the 7th century wouldn't know. Sorry.

To Zyva

  I would also mention that Some Light pls references to astronomical references in the Koran as being advanced to all other knowledge at the time is not realistic in the face of the Mayan and Inca’s.  Thousands of years before the best part of Islam or Christianity dripped down the leg of who ever invented them, the Inca and Mayan knowledge of astrology would remain unsurpassed until modern times.
 

Quote from: "Mark L Holland"Thousands of years before the best part of Islam or Christianity dripped down the leg of who ever invented them, the Inca and Mayan knowledge of astrology would remain unsurpassed until modern times.

:hail:

Quote from: "Mark L Holland"To Some Light pls

   The problem is not you making yourself understood, the problem is you offering no evidence whatsoever to back up what you say.  You claim to know the truths of Allah and to know the mind of Allah, but have given no evidence whatsoever that you know the truths of Allah nor have you given any evidence to show that you know the mind of Allah.  All you have done is show that there is little difference between Islam and Christianity.  All either of you do is say "yada yada yada and that is why God is real"  without giving any evidence in the process.

 :bananacolor:

To Mark L Holland
Correct me if I am wrong :
you believe in intelligent design . but this intelligent design is not done by God .
you are against The proposition that human beings are created in the image of God . [ as the bible said ]
also you do not believe God existent  .
I will get back to your last comment after your answer .

Take care …

To some light pls

  I believe that there is at least one God but there can be as many Gods as there are beliefs in Gods.  I believe that God or Gods created everything, or more precisely I believe that the Universe is a living entity that is God so as God or Gods were created so were all other things created.  As for being created in the image of God or Gods physically of course not.  I do not believe that God or Gods are physical beings, I believe they are beings of power and energy that may take on physical forms but those forms are by their choice.

  I do not believe in intelligent design as is described by Christianity.  I believe in creation as science has explained creation from the big bang on forward, but that during the evolution of things as they occurred God or Gods added ingredients here or there, stirred this or that, tweaked this or that to guide evolution into the outcomes that were desired.   I see no conflict between what science says happened and with the creation theory, if God or Gods created everything then it was done through the big bang and the evolution of things that came afterward.
 

Quote from: "Mark L Holland"To Zyva

  I would also mention that Some Light pls references to astronomical references in the Koran as being advanced to all other knowledge at the time is not realistic in the face of the Mayan and Inca’s.  Thousands of years before the best part of Islam or Christianity dripped down the leg of who ever invented them, the Inca and Mayan knowledge of astrology would remain unsurpassed until modern times.
 lol  
 I missed those references, Thanks for pointing it out and I agree!
I also appreciate the above post about your beliefs, Mark Holland.

Quote from: "some light plz"Until now even when you became an atheist , unable to get out from the circle of Bible …
more than once " the writers of the bible lied about God and prophets "

my friends , I will show you something different above your imagination .

my regard

isnt that what the Quran is based on? the old testament? the first book of the god of abraham?

Quote from: "Mark L Holland"To Some Light pls

   The problem is not you making yourself understood, the problem is you offering no evidence whatsoever to back up what you say.  You claim to know the truths of Allah and to know the mind of Allah, but have given no evidence whatsoever that you know the truths of Allah nor have you given any evidence to show that you know the mind of Allah.  All you have done is show that there is little difference between Islam and Christianity.  All either of you do is say "yada yada yada and that is why God is real"  without giving any evidence in the process.

 :bananacolor:

Sorry for late ,
I did not say I know the mind of Allah .  (never ) .. but I know  :
why  did  Allah create human  ?
for one target :
(( 56. I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me. 57. No Sustenance do I require of them, nor do I require that they should feed Me. 58. For Allah is He Who gives (all) Sustenance,- Lord of Power,- Steadfast (for ever). ))

who am I ?
yes , I am a creature as many creatures in this universe , but I am also :
( A) :   a vicegerent on earth :
He commanded me to build this earth by good deeds and righteous , therefore the explanation of the bible about " human beings are created in the image of God  "  is a false explanation . I will write my own explanation :
the idea that human looks like God in shape  wrong idea . God is perfect in hearing   , seeing   , strength .. actually he is   perfect in everything . if   We have done a comparison between human and   other creatures: we will find Human is downgraded in ranking . There are many creatures   better   than human in (( hearing , seeing , strength , speed ,…… )) . the fact human is weak . and this is not the image of God , he is not weak . therefore (man in our image ) has one meaning : the ability of thinking and creating our own universe on this earth like what  God did by creating this universe  . he created for us the helpful  tools and the materials to Build this earth . This image does not achieve in other creatures , but it achieved in human .human is the only creature able to develop his life , to use the materials of earth for a better life . and the engine in this is the brain .   which means that human   a vicegerent on earth .
 in Quran  : (( (He is) the Creator of the heavens and the earth: He has made for you pairs from among yourselves, and pairs among cattle: by this means does He multiply you: there is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees (all things). )) . Observe :almighty Allah   spoke about ( human , cattle , heavens and earth ) . then he announced that he hears and sees all things but there is nothing whatever like unto him .

( B ) : a honorable creature .
In Quran : ((70. We have honored the sons of Adam; provided them with transport on land and sea; given them for sustenance things good and pure; and conferred on them special favours, above a great part of our creation. ))

Why Did Allah created this universe ?
1-   for truth :
((27. Not without purpose did We create heaven and earth and all between! that were the thought of Unbelievers! but woe to the Unbelievers because of the Fire (of Hell)! )) Surah 38
((16. Not for (idle) sport did We create the heavens and the earth and all that is between! 17. If it had been Our wish to take (just) a pastime, We should surely have taken it from the things nearest to Us, if We would do (such a thing)! )) Surah 21
2-   To serve human ,
in Quran : ((13. And He has subjected to you, as from Him, all that is in the heavens and on earth: Behold, in that are Signs indeed for those who reflect. )) Surah 45
((32. It is Allah Who hath created the heavens and the earth and sendeth down rain from the skies, and with it bringeth out fruits wherewith to feed you; it is He Who hath made the ships subject to you, that they may sail through the sea by His command; and the rivers (also) hath He made subject to you.  )) Surah 14

are there any gods partner the Real God ( Allah ) in his kingdom ?
NO , one god , one path , one way to worship him ,
((2. He to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth: no son has He begotten, nor has He a partner in His dominion: it is He who created all things, and ordered them in due proportions. 3. Yet have they taken, besides him, gods that can create nothing but are themselves created; that have no control of hurt or good to themselves; nor can they control death nor life nor resurrection. ))Surah 25

Logical answers :
((42. Say: If there had been (other) gods with Him, as they say,- behold, they would certainly have sought out a way to the Lord of the Throne! 43. Glory to Him! He is high above all that they say!- Exalted and Great (beyond measure)! )) Surah 17
((91. No son did Allah beget, nor is there any god along with Him: (if there were many gods), behold, each god would have taken away what he had created, and some would have lorded it over others! Glory to Allah. (He is free) from the (sort of) things they attribute to Him! 92. He knows what is hidden and what is open: too high is He for the partners they attribute to Him! )) Surah 23

59. Say: Praise be to Allah, and Peace on his servants whom He has chosen (for his Message). (Who) is better?- Allah or the false gods they associate (with Him)?
60. Or, Who has created the heavens and the earth, and Who sends you down rain from the sky? Yea, with it We cause to grow well-planted orchards full of beauty of delight: it is not in your power to cause the growth of the trees in them. (Can there be another) god besides Allah. Nay, they are a people who swerve from justice. 61. Or, Who has made the earth firm to live in; made rivers in its midst; set thereon mountains immovable; and made a separating bar between the two bodies of flowing water? (can there be another) god besides Allah. Nay, most of them know not. 62. Or, Who listens to the (soul) distressed when it calls on Him, and Who relieves its suffering, and makes you (mankind) inheritors of the earth? (Can there be another) god besides Allah. Little it is that ye heed! 63. Or, Who guides you through the depths of darkness on land and sea, and Who sends the winds as heralds of glad tidings, going before His Mercy? (Can there be another) god besides Allah.- High is Allah above what they associate with Him!  64. Or, Who originates creation, then repeats it, and who gives you sustenance from heaven and earth? (Can there be another) god besides Allah. Say, "Bring forth your argument, if ye are telling the truth!"  65. Say: None in the heavens or on earth, except Allah, knows what is hidden: nor can they perceive when they shall be raised up (for Judgment).
66. Still less can their knowledge comprehend the Hereafter: Nay, they are in doubt and uncertainty thereanent; nay, they are blind thereunto!

I think there is a clear difference between Islam and Christianity .
Any Muslim's opinion about life and God will be according to Quran , our life moves according to an exact doctrine which is the message of Allah ( the holy Quran ) .

Quote from: "Zyva"I agree with Mark, I understand your posts perfectly, I just don't understand where you're coming from.
I watched the Keith Moore vid that you posted and I got my copy of the Qu'ran out and looked up the verses that he quoted.
I don't see anything out of the ordinary.  I think Dr. Moore was kissing the butts of the people who were funding his research, to be honest.
Yes the Qu'ran says some very interesting things about how sexual reproduction works, but it isn't anything that any farmer or shepherd of the 7th century wouldn't know. Sorry.

I said in  my post : " I wrote only one verse of many verses mentioned human's stages in wombs "
If you want to read more about this truth : " human creation between science and Quran  "

http://www.quranandscience.com/human/86 ... ce-27.html (http://www.quranandscience.com/human/86-embryology-and-human-creation-between-quran-a-science-27.html)

thanks

my friend Mark
One more thing  :
I thought you are an atheist , therefore my posts were  proving that Allah's existent .

thnaks

Just to explain important thing ,
 in Arabic language it is allowable for the  singular to  use the pronoun [ We ] … if this singular is a great person or an important one . as kings or the presidents . also before the holy Quran , the Arabian poets used this pronoun [ We ] in poems to glorify  themselves  .
And for Allah there is nothing greater than him , and no one deserve to be glorify more than him .

Quote from: "some light plz"Just to explain important thing ,
 in Arabic language it is allowable for the  singular to  use the pronoun [ We ] … if this singular is a great person or an important one . as kings or the presidents . also before the holy Quran , the Arabian poets used this pronoun [ We ] in poems to glorify  themselves  .
And for Allah there is nothing greater than him , and no one deserve to be glorify more than him .

fyi, in English it is commonly called the Royal We http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majestic_plural (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majestic_plural)

Quote from: "some light plz"I said in  my post : " I wrote only one verse of many verses mentioned human's stages in wombs "
If you want to read more about this truth : " human creation between science and Quran  "

http://www.quranandscience.com/human/86 ... ce-27.html (http://www.quranandscience.com/human/86-embryology-and-human-creation-between-quran-a-science-27.html)

thanks

Thanks for the link somelight, very interesting.
Listen, I respect your right to follow whatever religion suits you and I don't want to seem disrespectful, but I also don't agree with you.  
 Genesis 38:9 mentions that a guy named Onan "spilled his seed on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother",  so obviously people already knew that semen was necessary for creating babies before the Quran was written.

Also, as far back as the 2nd century there was a Greek doctor named Claudius Galenus, he was born in what is now Turkey. His theories in medicine were studied for over a thousand years and he knew in the 2nd century that there were at least 4 stages of embryonic development.
1. unformed white conceptus like semen
2. a bloody vascularised foetus
3. other features mapped out but not fully formed
4.all the organs are formed and joints freely movable
 I'm almost sure that over the 500 years between his death and Muhammad's birth word of his discoveries got around.

The Quran says that a baby is created from the man's nuftah (semen) and then becomes a alaqa (clot) but it doesn't mention the egg at all. If Muhammad knew how babies were formed in the uterus why didn't he mention the egg?

Anyone who spends enough time around animals and butchering animals for food, has ample opportunity to see the embryonic stages of development in the uterus's of the animals that they are butchering. It's not a far stretch to assume that the same is true of humans.

I'm not dogging your prophet, somelightplz, I'm just saying that because of the above reasons, I don't buy it.

Quote from: "G-Roll"

Quote from: "some light plz"Until now even when you became an atheist , unable to get out from the circle of Bible …
more than once " the writers of the bible lied about God and prophets "

my friends , I will show you something different above your imagination .

my regard

isnt that what the Quran is based on? the old testament? the first book of the god of abraham?

Islam is the oldest religion on earth , it appeared  before Jewish and Christianity for many reasons  :
1- prophet Abraham was not a Jew or a Christian .

2-the covenant between Allah and prophet Abraham has 2conditions :
( a ) : Abraham and his sons should Guide people to worship one god only .
( b ) : Allah will make people bless prophet Abraham for ever .

3- the covenant has been broken more than once by the hand of Jews by killing many prophets or rejecting the messengers of Allah or hiding the truth  but not by the hands prophets [ prophets were not sinners ]  , until the time of prophet Jesus who came for preaching about the New kingdom of God which is [ Islam ] and the new nation [ Sons of prophet Ishmael ]  which going to take the Responsibility  to spread the message of Allah   when he said in Mat 21 : 43-44 : ((Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. ))  .

4- Islam declared itself clearly  through many verses : Not a Jew or a Christian but a follower of Abraham  in Surah 2 : ((135. They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah." )) The inspiration comes at this verse very clearly to follow the Law of prophet Abraham peace be upon him in Surah 16 : ((123. So We have taught thee the inspired (Message), "Follow the ways of Abraham the True in Faith, and he joined not gods with Allah.))

5- Muslims are keeping the covenant , also we bless prophet Abraham and his sons in our prayers more than 15 times per day . we perform Hajj as he did , we sacrifices sheep as he did . all things that have been done by prophet Abraham we do .

---------------------------------------------

one of the faith pillars : a Muslim must  believe that all  holy books  which have been  mentioned in the holy Quran  are an inspiration from Allah to his messengers . the holy Books : [ Torah , gospel , Psalms , the Books of Abraham  ] .

((285. The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His apostles. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His apostles." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys." )) .
Also these books were lights and guide for humankind  , but the Jews changed the word of Allah , [ they lied about Allah , they lied about prophets ,  also they hid the truth ] . by adding or deleted anything  they want
In Surah 2 : ((79. Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. ))

1- Lied about Allah : they described him with an ugly depictions . until they reach that Jesus is God , the whole glory for Allah .  he is not like this .

2- Lied about prophets : they accused all prophets that they were  sinners . in it also accusing  Allah that he is unable to choose a good person for his  message .

3- Adding and deleting : therefore you will find these books full with mistakes and contradictions .

4- They hid the truth : Allah commanded them to reveal the message for humankind but they did the opposite of that , therefore you will find a many prophets have been sent to them to return them to the truth , and each time they refuse . in Isaiah chapter 59 .  

The Holy Quran is different than these books, in telling about : " Allah , religion , prophets ,  science and knowledge "
 
My regard .. and sorry for my long posts .. but I had to explain

Quote from: "Zyva"

Quote from: "some light plz"I said in  my post : " I wrote only one verse of many verses mentioned human's stages in wombs "
If you want to read more about this truth : " human creation between science and Quran  "

http://www.quranandscience.com/human/86 ... ce-27.html (http://www.quranandscience.com/human/86-embryology-and-human-creation-between-quran-a-science-27.html)

thanks

Thanks for the link somelight, very interesting.
Listen, I respect your right to follow whatever religion suits you and I don't want to seem disrespectful, but I also don't agree with you.  
 Genesis 38:9 mentions that a guy named Onan "spilled his seed on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother",  so obviously people already knew that semen was necessary for creating babies before the Quran was written.

Also, as far back as the 2nd century there was a Greek doctor named Claudius Galenus, he was born in what is now Turkey. His theories in medicine were studied for over a thousand years and he knew in the 2nd century that there were at least 4 stages of embryonic development.
1. unformed white conceptus like semen
2. a bloody vascularised foetus
3. other features mapped out but not fully formed
4.all the organs are formed and joints freely movable
 I'm almost sure that over the 500 years between his death and Muhammad's birth word of his discoveries got around.

The Quran says that a baby is created from the man's nuftah (semen) and then becomes a alaqa (clot) but it doesn't mention the egg at all. If Muhammad knew how babies were formed in the uterus why didn't he mention the egg?

Anyone who spends enough time around animals and butchering animals for food, has ample opportunity to see the embryonic stages of development in the uterus's of the animals that they are butchering. It's not a far stretch to assume that the same is true of humans.

I'm not dogging your prophet, somelightplz, I'm just saying that because of the above reasons, I don't buy it.

You have the right to ask , also my duty  is  to answer these questions to reveal the truth , also to remove the doubts :
1-   prophet Mohammad was a person who can not read nor  write .
2-   the Arabs " nation of prophet Mohammad " were a nation lived in darkness far  away from knowledge and sciences , all they knew the barbaric life . and killing each other .  also the nature of the Arab land is harsh not fit to build  a civilization " desert " .they are not like Greek civilization .
3-   prophet Mohammad lived an orphan , his father died before he came to life , and his mother died while he was at the age of 6 years . he lived as a poor person with his grandfather then his uncle who was a poor person .. even after his  marriage  2 months and more passed on him and on his family without burning a fire in his house for food .
4-   before the inspiration , most of his time was in the cave of Hiraa looking at the heavens also escaping from his nation religion " they were idols worshippers " .
5-   after the inspiration , his life was full with many huge events " the message , battles , learning his companions , migration , persecution,  he faced torture     " .
6-   sperm's diameter = 0.1  Millimeter  ( only can be seen by microscopes ) .leech-like clot diameter = (0.7 â€" 3.0 ) Millimeter .morsel of flesh diameter = ( 3.2 â€" 13 ) Millimeter . because of the small size of these stages , scientists were unable to discover these exact details  until the 20th century , by using advanced technology . . also  professor Kith Moor did not ignore or forget  Galen's research , but he compared between the two facts and the result of his researches . and he found the exact result in Quran not  in Galen's researches
Galen : Geniture - an unformed white conceptus like semen
prophet Mohammad : We placed him as (a drop of) sperm in a place of rest, firmly fixed

Galen : A bloody vascularised foetus with brain, liver and heart
prophet Mohammad : Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood

Galen : Other features were mapped out but unformed
prophet Mohammad : ; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump

Galen : Puer - all the organs were well formed and joints were freely moveable.
prophet Mohammad : then we made out of that lump bones

Galen : …………………………………….
Prophet Mohammad : and clothed the bones with flesh;

Galen : …………………………………….
Prophet Mohammad : then produced it as another creation

((12. Man We did create from a quintessence (of clay); 13. Then We placed him as (a drop of) sperm in a place of rest, firmly fixed; 14. Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump;then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create! )) Surah 23
did prophet Mohammad has a supernatural eyes to see these stages ?
how many animals have been slain by prophet Mohammad  to record his notes about  embryology ? he can not read nor write  .

8 â€" the word " nuftah " is not the man's water only . it has been explained in the holy Quran at Surah 76 â€" 2 ((2. Verily We created Man from a drop of mingled sperm, in order to try him: So We gave him (the gifts), of Hearing and Sight ))  .


thanks

Quote from: "some light plz"Islam is the oldest religion on earth , it appeared  before Jewish and Christianity for many reasons  :
1- prophet Abraham was not a Jew or a Christian .

Vedic Hinduism is generally regarded as the oldest organized religion. Sanskrit is the oldest written language that contains religious texts, as far as organized religion is concerned, it is said that Rama appeared approx. a million or so years ago.  Krishna, God himself according to the Vedic scriptures, appeared here 5,000 years ago. In comparison with Hinduism, all Abrahamic religions are very young, because Abraham dates back to 1800 BC.

Quote from: "Tom62"Vedic Hinduism is generally regarded as the oldest organized religion. Sanskrit is the oldest written language that contains religious texts, as far as organized religion is concerned, it is said that Rama appeared approx. a million or so years ago.  Krishna, God himself according to the Vedic scriptures, appeared here 5,000 years ago. In comparison with Hinduism, all Abrahamic religions are very young, because Abraham dates back to 1800 BC.

Thanks tom62
My comment was about the 3 main heavenly religions  after prophet Abraham .
-------------
The word religion is a general word in it a true religions also a false religions , but the  true religions are 5 religions  :
1-   the message of prophet Noah .
2-   the message of prophet Abraham .
3-   the message of prophet Moses .
4-   the message of prophet Jesus .
5-   and the last  message of prophet Mohammad .peace be upon all  prophets

all these messages invite to worship one god only " Allah " .

I hope you watch this video about Krishna very interesting :

[youtube:3dn7hu0f]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnUOPNs3EFc[/youtube:3dn7hu0f]

death is the beginning of the story  â€¦ from a faithful heart : I wish the everlasting happiness for all of you . my regard .

Quote from: "some light plz"You have the right to ask , also my duty  is  to answer these questions to reveal the truth , also to remove the doubts :
1-   prophet Mohammad was a person who can not read nor  write .

Saying that Mohammad could not read or write, and then saying that he wrote the Quran is an obvious misunderstanding. Apparently, he could write.

Quote2-   the Arabs " nation of prophet Mohammad " were a nation lived in darkness far  away from knowledge and sciences , all they knew the barbaric life . and killing each other .  also the nature of the Arab land is harsh not fit to build  a civilization " desert " .they are not like Greek civilization .

I'll agree that it was not an ideal place to live.

Quote3-   prophet Mohammad lived an orphan , his father died before he came to life , and his mother died while he was at the age of 6 years . he lived as a poor person with his grandfather then his uncle who was a poor person .. even after his  marriage  2 months and more passed on him and on his family without burning a fire in his house for food .

Mohammad was born in Mecca, one of the largest cities in Arabia at that time, I can't imagine a merchant in Mecca who couldn't read or write, I'm sure it's possible though. Mohammad being poor doesn't impress me. I grew up poor.

Quote4-   before the inspiration , most of his time was in the cave of Hiraa looking at the heavens also escaping from his nation religion " they were idols worshippers " .

Yes, Mecca was a large meeting place for pagans  and that disturbed Mohammad so he moved out of the city and into the cave.

Quote5-   after the inspiration , his life was full with many huge events " the message , battles , learning his companions , migration , persecution,  he faced torture     " .

Like all of the prophets before him, he wasn't important until he became a prophet.

Quotedid prophet Mohammad has a supernatural eyes to see these stages ?

I've already stated why he didn't need supernatural eyes to see the stages, it was common knowledge at that time.

Quotehow many animals have been slain by prophet Mohammad  to record his notes about  embryology ? he can not read nor write  .

If he wrote the Quran, then he could write.

Quote8 â€" the word " nuftah " is not the man's water only . it has been explained in the holy Quran at Surah 76 â€" 2 ((2. Verily We created Man from a drop of mingled sperm, in order to try him: So We gave him (the gifts), of Hearing and Sight ))  .

Once again, I'll ask why leave out the egg? It's just as important as the sperm. The sperm could not create anything without the egg and vice versa.  How about I tell you why instead?
The common idea among scholars in the 7th century was that the sperm created the child. No one knew (not even the inspired Mohammad) that there was an egg involved in the process.
The fact that the prophet never mentions the woman's part of the nuftah leads me to believe that his observations or prophecies if you like to call them that, are lacking.
Now, if Mohammad had mentioned the egg (or even anything resembling the woman's part in the creation of a baby) in his version, that would be impressive and worth looking into, but the fact that the Quran doesn't contain any information that wasn't common knowledge at the time of it's writing, leaves me unimpressed.
Once again, I don't want to offend, but I don't buy it.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages22.fotki.com%2Fv518%2Fphotos%2F8%2F892548%2F6145789%2Fheathensvi-vi.jpg&hash=511f934b3ae62f341816608d330c183bad05c548)

some light plz has been issues a warning for preaching and was sent the following message:

QuoteYou have been told not to preach and given a lot of time to figure out how not to do so.  However, all you are doing is throwing out verses from your holy text and very largely disregarding criticism.

Quote from: "some light plz"

Quote from: "G-Roll"

Quote from: "some light plz"Until now even when you became an atheist , unable to get out from the circle of Bible …
more than once " the writers of the bible lied about God and prophets "

my friends , I will show you something different above your imagination .

my regard

isnt that what the Quran is based on? the old testament? the first book of the god of abraham?

Islam is the oldest religion on earth , it appeared  before Jewish and Christianity for many reasons  :
1- prophet Abraham was not a Jew or a Christian .

2-the covenant between Allah and prophet Abraham has 2conditions :
( a ) : Abraham and his sons should Guide people to worship one god only .
( b ) : Allah will make people bless prophet Abraham for ever .

 

"Islam is the oldest religion on earth , it appeared  before Jewish and Christianity for many reasons  :
1- prophet Abraham was not a Jew or a Christian ."
Lol what do you have to back this claim? or is this a conspiracy you/muslims have?  
i have read much on the contrary:

QuoteThe Koran was written after the Torah, in the late 7th century, while much of the Torah was written at least 3,000 years ago.

QuoteJudaism is the oldest monotheistic religion, and the history of Judaism cannot be separated from the history of the Jewish people. Its foundation lies in the original covenant made between Abraham and God, circa 1900 BCE, when Abraham was called to leave his home in Ur and travel to Cannan (later known as Palestine and Israel), a land which God promised to give to his descendants. The second and chief covenant was made 450 years later when Moses led the Jews out of slavery in Egypt (the exodus) back to the lands of Canaan. At Mt Horeb (Sinai), God gave the Jewish people the 10 Commandants and other rules to live by (contained in the Torah, the first five books of the Bible), marking the beginning of Judaism as a structured religion.

QuoteMany of those who follow Judaism and Christianity probably regard the founder of Judaism to be Abraham, whom they consider to have lived before 2000 BCE. Others may regard the true founder of Judaism to be Moses, who is traditionally considered to have lived around 1400 BCE. On these views, Judaism is around 4000 or 3400 years old.

QuoteThe beginning date of Judaism could be:
•   During Abraham's time, as he is the forefather of Judaism some around 1900 BCE; nearly 4000 years ago.
•   At the time the Torah was given the the Jews on Mount Sinai some 400 years later.


Islam was founded in 610 A.D, by Muhammed

QuoteMost religious historians view Islam as having been founded in 622 CE by Muhammad the Prophet (peace be upon him).* He lived from about 570 to 632 CE). The religion started in Mecca, when the angel Jibril (a.k.a. Jibreel; Gabriel in English) read the first revelation to Muhammad (pbuh). (Mohammed and Muhammed (pbuh) are alternative spellings for his name.) Islam is the youngest of the world's very large religions -- those with over 300 million members -- which include Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism.
Jesus crucifixion: The Anno Domini system was developed by a monk named Dionysius Exiguus (born in Scythia Minor) in Rome in 525, as an outcome of his work on calculating the date of Easter.
33 AD is a commonly accepted date (for the death of jesus). In this year it was Friday April 3rd.

QuoteDate of founding: Christianity circa 30 CE.  date of founding islam 622 CE.

i would state my sources but you can just google and find islam is the youngest monotheistic religion in MILLIONS of different sites.

how is it that in the time of moses (lets pretend he was real) leading the israelites  out of egypt.... that moses was actually a muslim? islam wasnt even a thought yet. you simply cant take another religion and steal it and claim it to be yours just because. i dont see how that makes anything you state after that relevant, coherent, or even thought out.

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages22.fotki.com%2Fv518%2Fphotos%2F8%2F892548%2F6145789%2Fheathensvi-vi.jpg&hash=511f934b3ae62f341816608d330c183bad05c548)

:D

to Zyva
At the first time you said : [  The Quran says that a baby is created from the man's nuftah (semen) and then becomes a alaqa (clot) but it doesn't mention the egg at all. If Muhammad knew how babies were formed in the uterus why didn't he mention the egg? ]
And I explained the word " Nutfaa "

then you changed your question : [Once again, I'll ask why leave out the egg? It's just as important as the sperm. The sperm could not create anything without the egg and vice versa. How about I tell you why instead? The common idea among scholars in the 7th century was that the sperm created the child. No one knew (not even the inspired Mohammad) that there was an egg involved in the process. ]

the holy Quran is speaking about a creation process , this process  can not be achieved without meeting of both " male and female " . the ****** knows this information , and the holy Quran does not talk with ******.

((189. It is He Who created you from a single person, and made his mate of like nature, in order that he might dwell with her (in love). When they are united, she bears a light burden and carries it about (unnoticed). When she grows heavy, they both pray to Allah their Lord, (saying): "If Thou givest us a goodly child, we vow we shall (ever) be grateful.)) Surah 7

((13. O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, )) Surah 49
Which means creation in wombs could not be achieved without this meeting

I closed all doors , but you did not understand it :
1-   poor : means not rich , which means he has no animals [ cattle ] to slay .
2-   a barbaric nation : means unscientific  environment . unhelpful environment for science and knowledge
3-   you agree with me : the message of Allah is not for animals but for human , therefore the challenge must for the specific sex [ human ], to close this door against unfruitful  arguing . by speaking about unseen and undiscovered thing , even in our days you will not see the stages by your eyes ... you must use an advanced  microscopes .
4-   huge events : means he has no time to record his notes about animals . and how he could record while he can not read and write ?
5-   can not read or write : means can not read or write . and this is one of his great miracles by challenging all humankind :[ wises , scientists , doctors  ,  experts , .............. ]  with Laws in all life parts [economic , social, political , homely , ] to bring a Law equal or better than his Law . also the one who wrote Quran are his companions by his command .

I hope Recusant  who Discusses me very intelligent person knows the targets of each comment . Do you want me to increase the level of this discussion ?
Because you affirmed that you did not read  the link .
May Allah bless you professor Moor

Quotethe word " nuftah " is not the man's water only . it has been explained in the holy Quran at Surah 76 â€" 2 ((2. Verily We created Man from a drop of mingled sperm, in order to try him: So We gave him (the gifts), of Hearing and Sight ))

It's a big logic jump to assume that 'mingled sperm' must mean a sperm and an egg.  At this point it's pretty obvious that you have little interest in the information as it's presented, but rather you are trying to force the information from the Quran to prove a specific desired result.  When your argument is reduced to a point where 'mingled sperm' must be accepted as 'sperm and egg' when 'mingled sperm' in no way suggests the presence of an egg, you are officially trying to make reality fit the book and not witnessing the book reflecting reality.

I would love to see you respond in your own words without a single giant block of quoted text from the Quran.  The fact that you seem incapable of communicating without quoting giant chunks of an unverifiable religious text makes you a troll.  If you want to have a discussion, awesome.  But if you keep being a troll you're going to get banned.

why does it matter if the writter of the koran knows that it takes a male and a female to make a baby?  How is that proof of anything other than the writer's ability to observe what happens in real life?

QuoteIt's a big logic jump to assume that 'mingled sperm' must mean a sperm and an egg. At this point it's pretty obvious that you have little interest in the information as it's presented, but rather you are trying to force the information from the Quran to prove a specific desired result. When your argument is reduced to a point where 'mingled sperm' must be accepted as 'sperm and egg' when 'mingled sperm' in no way suggests the presence of an egg, you are officially trying to make reality fit the book and not witnessing the book reflecting reality.

It makes me think of an archer who shoots an arrow at the broad side of a barn. Then walks up to the arrow stuck in the barn and paints a target around it. Then claims to have hit a bulls eye.
All I got out of the last post was that by the 7th century people understood filling women with semen made babies. And that she thinks Recusant is an intelligent person.  Ill agree with that part...
And what is the “****** knows this information , and the holy Quran does not talk with ******?” my imagination runs wild with the ******. Its like an old choose your own adventure book.

Quote from: "G-Roll"

QuoteIt's a big logic jump to assume that 'mingled sperm' must mean a sperm and an egg. At this point it's pretty obvious that you have little interest in the information as it's presented, but rather you are trying to force the information from the Quran to prove a specific desired result. When your argument is reduced to a point where 'mingled sperm' must be accepted as 'sperm and egg' when 'mingled sperm' in no way suggests the presence of an egg, you are officially trying to make reality fit the book and not witnessing the book reflecting reality.

It makes me think of an archer who shoots an arrow at the broad side of a barn. Then walks up to the arrow stuck in the barn and paints a target around it. Then claims to have hit a bulls eye.
All I got out of the last post was that by the 7th century people understood filling women with semen made babies. And that she thinks Recusant is an intelligent person.  Ill agree with that part...
And what is the “****** knows this information , and the holy Quran does not talk with ******?” my imagination runs wild with the ******. Its like an old choose your own adventure book.

Yeah, I don't understand the ***** thing either.  Are we doing religious madlibs now or what?

honestly im glad you said that, i thought i might be the only one who didnt get the ******. i dont know of any bad 6 letter words.

Quote from: "some light plz"I hope Recusant  who Discusses me very intelligent person knows the targets of each comment . Do you want me to increase the level of this discussion ?

No that's ok,  I think it's a lost cause. You and I see things from a completely different point of view. That's not a bad thing, we just disagree.
If it makes you feel any better, I don't believe the bible is the word of god either.
It's been fun discussing this with you some light plz.

Quote from: "G-Roll"honestly im glad you said that, i thought i might be the only one who didnt get the ******. i dont know of any bad 6 letter words.

I have not clue what it is either...when I first saw it I thought maybe I had accidentally turned on the word filter.

but the word filter just stars out one letter. so it must be done on purpose?

Quote from: "G-Roll"but the word filter just stars out one letter. so it must be done on purpose?

and I don't have the word filter turned on.

Brownie points to anyone who can figure out what forum he is copy pasting his posts from....that's the only reason I can think of for the ******; it must have originally come from some place that was using a word filter; and apparently filtering out religious names;

(how it affects the word depends on the forum's software.  I was on one forum that had the word filter set to display "Jeebus" when someone wrote "Jesus"  As funny as that was at first, it got in the way of having serious discussions with Christians due to the inherent disrespect.)