Happy Atheist Forum

Hi,
   Perhaps you are wondering why a Christian is joining an atheist forum. Well it is pretty simple; I like to be challenged. Joining a Christian forum would achieve little except perhaps a weak sickly feeling when the latest oddball starts preaching anti-Semitism/homophobia/islamophobia/sexism/all of the above. Joining an atheist forum is far more productive as I will be confronted by people who do not necessarily share my world-view, and hence I will be forced to constantly re-evaluate and justify my views. This is healthy, I think.

Hello Dagda. All are welcome here. Hopefully you'll find conversation with the other users here intellectually nourishing. I know i do.

 

:welcome:  

Yes it's healthy to question your beliefs.  Thats why a lot of us are atheists today.  We enjoy talking to many different people in different religions and I hope that we can answer any questions or concerns you have about your religion or even atheism (which is not a religion).  Tell us a little more about yourself ... how did you become a Christian?  Were you brought up a Christian (indoctrinated) or were you part of another religion all together and came to Christianity?

Welcome to the forum. I hope you learn a lot about agnostics, atheists, free-thinkers, etc., and that they will learn about you and your beliefs. You will most definitely be challenged here, and I hope that everyone understands that it is the nature of people to be skeptical of other people with differing opinions.

Also, it should never be the person who is "attacked", but the arguments or beliefs themselves. We sometimes manage that really well, and we sometimes mess it up.  

But welcome, again, from a former catholic (and baptist!).

I guess that on most Christian forums your follow Christians would claim that Roman Catholics are not real Christians. Don't worry, we treat all Christians equally bad around here   . Just kidding, Welcome to the forum, Dagda.

Welcome to the forum! Please note the emergency exits to the front and back of the forum. In the event of a decrease in forum pressure, an oxygen mask will fall from the overhead compartment. Place the mask over your mouth and breathe normally. The bag may seem not to inflate, but there is oxygen flowing.

 :D

Thank you for the friendly welcome!

LoneMateria, I was brought up in a Protestant family, so you probably couldn’t say I was indoctrinated into anything, although I don’t think I could claim I have switched religion. Between Protestantism and Catholicism I wandered in the wilderness, so to speak. I flirted with Hinduism for a while before almost becoming an atheist; I was driven away from atheism by a group of what you could call militant or ‘new’ Atheists-quite a similar experience to what many people have with groups of fundamentalist Christians which drives them away from Christianity, I suppose. Spent a year or so as a devoted Gnostic before finally settling on Catholicism. What a spiritual adventure I have had!

Quote from: "Dagda"Thank you for the friendly welcome!

LoneMateria, I was brought up in a Protestant family, so you probably couldn’t say I was indoctrinated into anything, although I don’t think I could claim I have switched religion. Between Protestantism and Catholicism I wandered in the wilderness, so to speak. I flirted with Hinduism for a while before almost becoming an atheist; I was driven away from atheism by a group of what you could call militant or ‘new’ Atheists-quite a similar experience to what many people have with groups of fundamentalist Christians which drives them away from Christianity, I suppose. Spent a year or so as a devoted Gnostic before finally settling on Catholicism. What a spiritual adventure I have had!

Thanks for sharing.  I'm sure I could make a case for indoctrination but it usually doesn't mean much when I do.  I'm honestly not sure what a militant atheist or a "new atheist" is.  I've heard mostly Christians use that term before and it seems to be a derogatory term when someone is vocal about their atheism instead of keeping their mouth shut.  Maybe you can clear that up for me ^_^ what is a militant or 'new' atheist?  Also how exactly do you be a devoted Gnostic?  I don't think i've heard someone ever claim to be Gnostic ... I've heard Agnostic but never Gnostic.

You've had quite a spiritual adventure .  Mine was a lot simpler.  I was born into a Presbyterian family who never went to church.  My dad ended up marring my step mom who was/is Catholic.  I went to Church a few times with her.  Another church experience is when my grandma would take me to a Presbyterian Church in Michigan when I visited them.  Which I never payed attention because my friend would always go with.  The only other experience I had at church when I was at that stage of my life was when my friend took me to his Southern Baptist Church once.  When I was in high school one of my atheist friends (I didn't know what an atheist was then) asked me a few questions about why I believed in God.  I literally had 0 answers.  I thought about it for a little while (and did a little research on the internet) and I declared myself an agnostic because I no longer was sure.  When I realized that was just a weak atheist position I just changed what I called myself to atheist.  Since then i've learned a lot about the bible and about the apologists arguments for the existence of God.  I've started reading the bible but it's long and dry reading.

Quote from: "LoneMateria"I've started reading the bible but it's long and dry reading.

They weren't very good fiction writers were they?  

Wonder why they even managed to sell so many copies...

Quote from: "Reginus"

Quote from: "LoneMateria"I've started reading the bible but it's long and dry reading.

They weren't very good fiction writers were they?  

Wonder why they even managed to sell so many copies...

It typically has to do with threats, intimidation and a good old fashion burning.  Since those times the book has been a household item.  But hey ... i'm sure L. Ron Hubbard's fiction is just as just as dry.  

Also do I notice a theme with the founders of these religions?  Jesus Christ was a convicted criminal and was put to death.  Joseph Smith was a convicted con-artist who fled to escape prosecution.  L Ron Hubbard had relations with children on his private Yachts ... does every religious figure have to be a douche to society?

Please do not confuse Gnostics and Agnostics. There are few similarities. Gnosticism is a rather complex belief system originating sometime in the 1st century BC. After Christ many of the sects blended Christian spirituality with Greek philosophy, Buddhist techniques and Jewish/Zoroastrian mythology. That is a very short introduction.

Militant atheist or ‘new’ atheist is just an umbrella term for various similar philosophical outlooks, used to make discussion about atheism and materialism more fluid rather than constantly having to refer to dozens of thinkers independently. In basic terms it is a group of atheists who embrace science to the point of religious devotion. They are usually violently opposed to religion, some demanding it to be made illegal, others embracing a utopian vision of a world freed from religion through education/argument with all the faith evangelical Christians  embrace End Time prophesies.

I fail to see how you could believe me to be indoctrinated when you have such few facts to create a psychological profile, but please continue; I am rather interested in psychology, and always looking for new information on religious belief.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv23%2Fpinkocommie%2Funholy_trinity3.jpg&hash=862f170e0bbec28c1d3b9b22a1157bbfe116a457)

Essentially the response to a criticism of New Atheism has been the pictorial claim that other militants are worse therefore you suck.

Quote from: "Dagda"Essentially the response to a criticism of New Atheism has been the pictorial claim that other militants are worse therefore you suck.

And I feel that religious people's insecurity about their own beliefs made obvious by unfairly labeling atheists as militant or violent with little to no evidence of this being true sucks.  We're even.

I meant militant or violent as a figure of speech e.g. I am violently opposed to Carol Ann Duffy, but I probably wouldn’t take up arms against her. Anyway, I have seen atheists describe themselves as militant, so I don’t really see how I caused offence: the equivalent of you calling some Christians fundamental-it is true, we are just going to have to live with it. However, I would say Communism is a pretty big indicator that atheism can become just as violent as Islam or Christianity (communism is really just a politicised form of New Atheism).

Quote from: "Dagda"I meant militant or violent as a figure of speech e.g. I am violently opposed to Carol Ann Duffy, but I probably wouldn’t take up arms against her. Anyway, I have seen atheists describe themselves as militant, so I don’t really see how I caused offence: the equivalent of you calling some Christians fundamental-it is true, we are just going to have to live with it. However, I would say Communism is a pretty big indicator that atheism can become just as violent as Islam or Christianity (communism is really just a politicised form of New Atheism).

I see your point, but I think it's disingenuous to ignore the fact that these labels are usually used by opposing points of view to demonize all atheists into some kind of singular, angry, negative crowd.  The whole 'new atheist' thing, long with the label 'militant atheist' originated as an insult and was meant to diminish atheists.  Some have since 'claimed' these terms the same way any slur is often assimilated into the minority's culture and is reclaimed as a way to empower the group against the ignorance that created the slur in the first place.  

The idea that there is some 'fundamental' form of atheism that some adhere to and therefor a label and distinction is fair doesn't make much sense to me.  If atheism is the lack of belief in god, is fundamentalist atheism the lack in belief in god like whoa?  I don't understand.  It's a mistake to think of people having different levels of atheism because it's still a very singular conclusion that makes one an atheist - there is no god.  Any maybes or even vaguely deistic ideals makes one an agnostic - not an atheist.

Quote from: "Dagda"However, I would say Communism is a pretty big indicator that atheism can become just as violent as Islam or Christianity (communism is really just a politicised form of New Atheism).

Jesus threw out the moneys-lenders from the temple and called them thieves. These money-lenders were at time ordinary businessmen. In the NT you can also read many statements from Jesus that he was not a promoter of a laissez-faire economy, like "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven." or  "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.". I therefore believe that, If Christians want to follow Jesus' footsteps then they should have nothing against communism.

Perhaps this is my fault for not making clear my meaning, and so I apologies. I agree that there is no ‘fundamentalist’ atheist, and that to say otherwise is absurd. There are also no atheist philosophies, but there are philosophies which are atheistic. For instance, some sects of Taoism are atheistic, but other than there denial of a deity, they have little in common with New Atheists. Apart from their belief in a deity, Theists have no central thread of thought, but there are theist religions and philosophies. In the same way there is no central thread to atheism, but there are atheistic philosophies and religions. My intention is not to create an atheist bogey man, but to show that there are a variety of different belief systems which happen to have an atheist element. The unfortunately named ‘new’ Atheists are one of these belief systems, and in much the same way as fundamental Christians can put someone off theism for life, so has this group put me off atheism for life. I hope I have created a clearer picture of my meaning.

Tom62, I meant no offence. Communism and New Atheism can find their roots in Christianity-that sense of blind devotion in a glorious End Time are clearly a branch-off from Christian theology. However, Communism’s embrace of science, distain for the past and hatred of religion, as well as the abandonment of St. Augustine’s City of God et. Al. Fail-safe mechanisms means that Communism has grown into a heresy, rather than a fulfilment of Christianity, meaning that the religion can’t quite embrace this particular political religion. However, the Communist mythology fits in with that of the New Atheists, hence my belief that they are essentially different sects of the same religion. Please do not take this as meaning that I think all atheists are a branch of the communist party, or that I am somehow insulting New Atheists-Communists have done some great things in Kerala etc.