Happy Atheist Forum

I just posted a blog (philosophicalponderings dot wordpress dot com) on my thoughts on the history of religion and how it relates to sociopathy, and am curious as to what anyone elses opinions and theories are...

FYI, you are more likely to get people to want to provide their opinion of your blog entry if you are a contributing member of the community(s) on which you post the request.

Sorry...but on the topic...

do you think there is an affiliation with religious leaders and sociopaths? Interested in different views...

You must appreciate that posting a one line OP, much of which is taken up with the address of your blog, in your first ever post, will lead a few to believe that you are somewhat disingenuous when claiming to seek discussion. Perhaps a better course of action would have been to post the article, sans link to your blog, and then engage in the ensuing discussion. As it is, your post could be construed as an advertisement for your blog, rather than an honest attempt to gather and discuss views.

Edit; Also, dismissing the owner of the site for being off topic, after the, in many ways lacking, OP, is not the wisest move either.

Quote from: "philosophical2"Sorry...but on the topic...

You probably should try to stay on my good side instead of dismissing my comment.

Quotedo you think there is an affiliation with religious leaders and sociopaths? Interested in different views...

I'll put as much effort as you did into your OP....no.

Lacking sympathy and shame it seems hard to believe a sociopath would ever believe in the Christian God, yet it seems some of the more known serial killers have. And not just hicks like Northcott... didn't Dahmer "find God"?

It's not very nice to compare sociapaths to those who are religious. Stalin and Hitler gave us all a taste of life under the atheist ideology and many millions were killed, so let's at least all be thankful for morals.

Quote from: "FredMore"It's not very nice to compare sociapaths to those who are religious. Stalin and Hitler gave us all a taste of life under the atheist ideology and many millions were killed, so let's at least all be thankful for morals.

Wow...just wow. Ok stalin had a Socialist ideology that had no room for any competing power includng religion. It wasn't an "Atheist idology" it was an idology that was actively anti-theist though. I won't argue that Stalin wasn't an Atheist because he patently was. I will however argue that the Roman Catholic Hitler was a Theist. He even picked as a national motto "gott mitt uns" or God is with us. Here are a few extremly easy to find quotes from Hitler on religion.

This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life. The various substitutes that have been offered have not shown any results that might warrant us in thinking that they might usefully replace the existing denominations. ...There may be a few hundreds of thousands of superior men who can live wisely and intelligently without depending on the general standards that prevail in everyday life, but the millions of others cannot do so.

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 10

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)


I could go on be there are literaly books of quotes by Hitler on his views of religion.


I was also woundering why in all you posts you refer to Atheists as "the atheist"? We are all idividuals who disagree as often as not and we have no guiding dogma so it's rather silly to lump the hundreds of millions of us into some pigeion hole you've decide we all fit in.

Quote from: "FredMore"It's not very nice to compare sociapaths to those who are religious. Stalin and Hitler gave us all a taste of life under the atheist ideology and many millions were killed, so let's at least all be thankful for morals.

Please describe precisely, in detail, the tenets put forth by this "atheist ideology". I'm very curious to know exactly what it is you're talking about. Also, please compare-and-contrast the differences between its ideological stance on morals and yours.

Quote from: "Tanker"

Quote from: "FredMore"It's not very nice to compare sociapaths to those who are religious. Stalin and Hitler gave us all a taste of life under the atheist ideology and many millions were killed, so let's at least all be thankful for morals.

Wow...just wow. Ok stalin had a Socialist ideology that had no room for any competing power includng religion. It wasn't an "Atheist idology" it was an idology that was actively anti-theist though. I won't argue that Stalin wasn't an Atheist because he patently was. I will however argue that the Roman Catholic Hitler was a Theist. He even picked as a national motto "gott mitt uns" or God is with us. Here are a few extremly easy to find quotes from Hitler on religion.

This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life. The various substitutes that have been offered have not shown any results that might warrant us in thinking that they might usefully replace the existing denominations. ...There may be a few hundreds of thousands of superior men who can live wisely and intelligently without depending on the general standards that prevail in everyday life, but the millions of others cannot do so.

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 10

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)


I could go on be there are literaly books of quotes by Hitler on his views of religion.


I was also woundering why in all you posts you refer to Atheists as "the atheist"? We are all idividuals who disagree as often as not and we have no guiding dogma so it's rather silly to lump the hundreds of millions of us into some pigeion hole you've decide we all fit in.

Thank you that's what I mean. Atheists are just as capable as everyone else of evil. The lack of basic morals doesn't exactly help it either. You are quite correct.

Quote from: "FredMore"Thank you that's what I mean. Christians are just evil. The lack of basic morals doesn't exactly help.

Fixed

Quote from: "FredMore"Christians are just as capable as everyone else of thinking. The lack of basic critical thinking skills doesn't exactly help it either. You are quite correct.

Yes, I agree.  No excuse.  No excuse at all.  

Quote from: "FredMore"Thank you that's what I mean. Atheists are just as capable as everyone else of evil. The lack of basic morals doesn't exactly help it either. You are quite correct.

No it isn't what you said was

Quote from: "FredMore"It's not very nice to compare sociapaths to those who are religious. Stalin and Hitler gave us all a taste of life under the atheist ideology and many millions were killed, so let's at least all be thankful for morals.

You implied Hitler was an Atheist. You were wrong and are now back peddeling. Theists seem to do this alot disavow anyone in thier faith who makes them look bad, and as often as not call them Atheists. I not sure if someone lied to you that Hitler was an Atheist or you read some dilibratly misleading information. It seems some believe that the ends justify the means. Lieing about Hitler falls into this often. Either that or you like many theists before you may have amazing mental gymnastic skills. Which is possible since you obvious back peddeling on this thread.

i wish i had basic morals....  

i wish i knew the difference of right and wrong...
i wish i had the motivation to help people....

i wish i wasnt stuck in my atheist ideology. i wish even more that i knew what atheist ideology was... so i googled it and found this:

QuoteMyth:
Atheism is more dangerous than religion because atheists like Adolf Hitler killed millions in the name of their atheistic ideologies like Nazism. That's far more than have been killed in the name of religion.

Response:
A popular image of the Nazis is that they were fundamentally anti-Christian while devout Christians were anti-Nazi. The truth is that German Christians supported the Nazis because they believed that Adolf Hitler was a gift to the German people from God.

Quote from: "FredMore"It's not very nice to compare sociapaths to those who are religious. Stalin and Hitler gave us all a taste of life under the atheist ideology and many millions were killed, so let's at least all be thankful for morals.

Hitler was a Christian who pledged to support and protect the Roman Catholic Church.  Below is a quote from the Catholic Library site.
 

Concordat Between the Holy See and the German Reich
July 20, 1933

His Holiness Pope Pius XI and the President of the German Reich, moved by a common desire to consolidate and enhance the friendly relations existing between the Holy See and the German Reich, wish to regulate the relations between the Catholic Church and the State for the whole territory of the German Reich in a permanent manner and on a basis acceptable to both parties. They have decided to conclude a solemn agreement, which will supplement the Concordats already concluded with certain individual German states, and will ensure for the remaining States fundamentally uniform treatment of their respective problems.

For this purpose:

His Holiness Pope Pius XI has appointed as his Plenipotentiary His Eminence the Most Reverend Lord Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli, his Secretary of State.

The President of the German Reich has appointed as Plenipotentiary the Vice-Chancellor of the German Reich, Herr Franz von Papen.

Who, having exchanged their respective credentials and found them to be in due and proper form, have agreed to the following articles:

Article 1

The German Reich guarantees freedom of profession and public practice of the Catholic religion.

It acknowledges the right of the Catholic Church, within the limit of those laws which are applicable to all, to manage and regulate her own affairs independently, and, within the framework of her own competence, to publish laws and ordinances binding on her members.

Article 2

The Concordats concluded with Bavaria (1924), Prussia (1929) and Baden (1932) remain in force, and the rights and privileges of the Catholic Church recognized therein are secured unchanged within the territories of the States concerned. For the remaining States the agreements entered into in the present Concordat come into force in their entirety. These last are also binding for those States named above in so far as they affect matters not regulated by the regional Concordats or are complementary to the settlement already made.

In the future, regional Concordats with States of the German Reich will be concluded only with the agreement of the Reich Government.

Article 3

In order to foster good relations between the Holy See and the German Reich, an Apostolic Nuncio will reside in the capital of the German Reich and an Ambassador of the German Reich at the Holy See, as heretofore.

Article 4

In its relations and correspondence with the bishops, clergy and other members of the Catholic Church in Germany, the Holy See enjoys full freedom. The same applies to the bishops and other diocesan officials in their dealings with the faithful in all matters belonging to their pastoral office.

Instructions, ordinances, Pastoral Letters, official diocesan gazettes, and other enactments regarding the spiritual direction of the faithful issued by the ecclesiastical authorities within the framework of their competence (Art. 1, Sect. 2) may be published without hindrance and brought to the notice of the faithful in the form hitherto usual.

Article 5

In the exercise of their spiritual activities the clergy enjoy the protection of the State in the same way as State officials. The State will take proceedings in accordance with the general provisions of State law against any outrage offered to the clergy personally or directed against their ecclesiastical character, or any interference with the duties of their office, and in case of need will provide official protection...

I'm not even really sure if Hitler or Stalin would fit the psychological makeup of a sociopath.

Quote from: "Tanker"

Quote from: "FredMore"Thank you that's what I mean. Atheists are just as capable as everyone else of evil. The lack of basic morals doesn't exactly help it either. You are quite correct.

No it isn't what you said was

Quote from: "FredMore"It's not very nice to compare sociapaths to those who are religious. Stalin and Hitler gave us all a taste of life under the atheist ideology and many millions were killed, so let's at least all be thankful for morals.

You implied Hitler was an Atheist. You were wrong and are now back peddeling. Theists seem to do this alot disavow anyone in thier faith who makes them look bad, and as often as not call them Atheists. I not sure if someone lied to you that Hitler was an Atheist or you read some dilibratly misleading information. It seems some believe that the ends justify the means. Lieing about Hitler falls into this often. Either that or you like many theists before you may have amazing mental gymnastic skills. Which is possible since you obvious back peddeling on this thread.

Whatever Hitler was, we know that the theories of Darwin were used by him and his ilk to justify their actions in WW2.  Gould is reported to have written:
"Darwin's theories came to be openly set out in political and military text books as the full justification for war and highly organized schemes of national policy in which the doctrine of force became the doctrine of Right."
Stephen Jay Gould, "William Jennings Bryan's Last Campaign," Natural History, November 1987, pp. 22-24.

I shamelessly stole this quotation from some site.  Haven't checked the reference.

So what?  It does not prove anything other than Hitler counted on no one actually reading the book. Darwin wrote about natural selection not euthanasia or ethnic cleansing.

Oh, believe me, the Holocaust would have happened with or without Darwin.