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((11. Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience.)) Surah 41

The previous verse from the holy Quran speaks about the beginning of creation . at this  moment there was no human to be a witness , but the holy Quran presented a trustful  scientific fact . and more than this , Allah Urges human  to discover  creation beginning  :
In Surah 29 : ((20. Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things. ))

Now back to our verse which mentioned the word SMOKE .
This word " smoke" describes the matter before the universe toll its shape-the hot cosmic smoke present during the creation of the universe . As now acknowledged  by scientist . This word in the Quran , in pinpoint fashion , describes this smoke for it is  a warm body of gas containing mobile particles connected to solid  . In the 20th century have scientists discovered that universe emerged from a hot gas in the form of smoke  .

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap980806.html (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap980806.html)

And the science discovered :
((Unlike household dust, cosmic 'dust' actually consists of tiny solid grains (mostly carbon and silicates) floating around in interstellar space, with similar sizes to the particles in cigarette smoke ))
 http://outreach.jach.hawaii.edu/pressroom/2003_casa/ (http://outreach.jach.hawaii.edu/pressroom/2003_casa/)

((The interstellar gas consists of atoms and molecules, mainly composed of hydrogen and helium.  Interstellar dust particles are the size of smoke particles.))
https://www.courses.psu.edu/astro/astro ... birth.html (https://www.courses.psu.edu/astro/astro001_pjm25/star_birth.html)

((Interstellar and interplanetary dust grains between about .6 micrometers and 1.4 micrometers are captured by Jupiter's magnetosphere, or area of magnetic influence, according to the study. Such particles are smaller than the diameter of a human hair and about the size of smoke particles. ))
http://www.xs4all.nl/~carlkop/dustring.html (http://www.xs4all.nl/~carlkop/dustring.html)

this modern  discovering  has been mentioned in the holy Quran before 1400 years .

the logical question is : who did tell prophet Mohammad about the beginning of creation ?

there aremore ..

I wish that you are happy , but I am looking  for you : the everlasting happiness ..
My regard . thanks

Ahem: viewtopic.php?t=1827 (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1827)

If all 3 main monotheists religions came from the god of abraham how did they wind up so different? There are many similarities but enough differences to create a different religion all together. Is this merely a result of different cultures take on the same god?    
And not to insult or put down your chosen faith, but why should I listen to your story of creation over the old testament? The old testament came before islam.
Having said that
Aken Ferryman of the Underworld
Aker Guardian and Gatekeeper of the Underworld
Am-Heh - Devourer of Millions
Ament Greeter of the Dead
Ammit Devourer of the Wicked
Amun and Amun-Re The King of the Gods
Anat Mother of Gods
Andjety A precursor of Osiris
Anqet The Embracer, Goddess of Fertility and the Nile at Aswan  
Anubis God of Embalming
Anuke Goddess of War
Anuket Goddess of the Nile
Apep The Great Destroyer
Arensnuphis Anthropomorphic Nubian Deity
As Kindly God of the Desert
Astarte, Warrior Goddess of Canaan
Aten The Sun Disk and later God
Atum The All-Father
Auf (Efu Ra) An aspect of the sun god Ra
Baal, God of Thunder
Ba-Pef - The Soul
Babi - The Dominant Male Baboon God
Banebdjetet God of Lower Egypt
Bast Beautiful Cat-Goddess
Bat - Ancient Cow Goddess
Benu (Bennu) - The Bird of Creation
Bes Protector of Childbirth
Dedwen - Nubian God of Resources
Denwen - The Fiery Serpent
The Ennead The Nine Great Osirian Gods
Fetket - The Sun God's Butler
Geb God of the Earth
Gengen Wer - The Great Honker
Hapi God of the Nile River
Hathor Goddess of Music and Dance
Hatmehyt - The Fish Goddess
Haurun, The Victorious Herdsman
Heh and Hauhet Deities of Infinity and Eternity
Heqet Frog Goddess
Heret-Kau - She who is Above the Spirits
Heryshef, Ruler of the Riverbanks
Heset Goddess of Plenty
Hetepes-Sekhus - An Eye of Re
Hike God of Magic and Medicine
Horus King of the Gods on Earth
Hu God of the Spoken Word
Iabet, Cleanser of Re, Personification of the East
Ihy - The Child God
Imhotep Lord of Science and Thought
Ipy (Opet), A Mother of Osiris
Isis Queen of the Gods
Iusaas - Creator Goddess
Kabechet Helper of Anubis
Kek and Kauket, Deities of Darkness, Obscurity and Night
Khenmu The Great Potter
Kherty - Ram-headed God
Kephri The Great Scarab
Khonsu God of the Moon
Maat Lady of Truth and Order
Mafdet Goddess of Scorpions and Snakes
Mahaf - The Ferryman
Mahes The Lord of the Massacre
Male Child Gods of Egypt
Mandulis - The Lower Nubian Sun God
Mehen Defender of the Sun Boat
Mehet-Weret - Cow Goddess of the Sky
Menhit Lion-headed War Goddess
Mertseger Guardian of the Valley of the Kings
Meskhenet - Goddess of Childbrith
Mihos - Son of Bastet
Min God of Fertility
Montu, Warrior and Solar God
Mut Grandmother of the Gods
Nefertem Lord of the Sunrise
Nehebkau, the God who Joined the Ka to the Body
Nekhbet Goddess of the Power of Kings
Neith Goddess of War and Funerals
Nephthys Lady of the Wings
Nun and Naunet Gods of Chaos and Water
Nut Goddess of the Firmament
The Ogdoad The Primordial Creation Gods
Onuris The War God
Osiris Lord of the Dead
Pakhet The Strength of Woman
Panebtawy - The Child God
Peteese and Pihor - Brother Gods
Ptah The Creator
Qadesh - Goddess of Esctasy and Sexual Pleasure
Re (Ra) The Sun God
Renenutet Goddess of the Harvest
Reshep - The Syrian War God
Sah and Sopdet (Sothis) The Astral God and Goddess
Satet Goddess of the Inundation
Satis Guardian of the Borders
Sebiumeker - Meroitic God of Procreation
Sefkhet-Abwy - Goddess of Writing and Temple Libraries
Seker The Resurrected Osiris
Sekhmet The Eye of Ra
Sepa - Centipede God
Serapis the Composit God
Serqet (Selkis) Scorpion Goddess
Seshat Goddess of writing, measurements
Set God of Evil
Shay - Personified Destiny
Shesmetet - Leonine Goddess
Shesmu Demon god of the Win Press
Shu God of the Air and Sky
Sia - The Perceptive Mind
Sobek Guard of the Gods
Sons of Horus Gods of the Viscera and the Canopic Jars
Sopedu - The Border Patrol God
Ta-Bitjet - A Wife of Horus
Tasenetnofret - The Good Sister
Taweret Goddess Demoness of Birth
Tayet - Goddess of Weaving
Tefnut Goddess of Moisture
Tatenen - "Father of Gods" and the God of the Rising Earth
Thoth God of Wisdom
Wadj Wer - The Pregnant God
Wadjet The Serpent Goddess
Weneg - Ancient Son of Re
Wepwawet (Upuaut) The Opener of the Ways
Wosret - Goddess of Thebes
Yah - Another Moon God
Yamm - God of the Sea

Here is a SHORT list of gods that came before the god of abraham. How is it that all these gods that where here way before god, but the the monotheists god is still credited with creation? All religion that came before the current god is dismissed as myth. Why shouldn’t we just cast off your belief like these other gods and their stories of creation?

eTo some light pls

  I admit that what you posted is interesting, but as with the Christian and Jewish holy books they too contain things which if looked at in a certain way might seem to make sense.  I and others have invalidated the Old and new testaments as being the infallible truth of a God or Gods.  While I have never looked at the Koran I would bet dollars to donuts that it to contains lies and contradictions within it’s pages.

  To know that Islam is no different then the Christian and Jewish beliefs is to look at their past and history.  Is there any thing in the history of Islam that shows the hand of a divine being protecting it or blessing it.  No, the holy lands of Islam have been invaded and conquered by heathens for centuries.  Did Allah at any time in the history of Islam smite with a mighty hand the enemies of his followers, No.

  All of the European nations who raped, pillaged and plundered Islamic Holy Lands all still exist.  The United States who now occupies vast tracks of Holy Islamic Lands is still here and still powerful, though bankrupted and hurting.  If Allah was truly real and truly interested in the health and welfare of his followers why would he allow such enemy nations to still exist and still plague his chosen followers.

  And in Islam like Christianity and Judaism cannot even agree on the interpretations and understandings of the Koran.  There is no unified or universal belief structure in Islam before the Christian Crusaders the Islamic tribes were fighting and killing each other because each group thought that only they had the infallible truths of Allah and that all others needed to accept that belief and killed those that rejected their authority.

  In the end Islamic history has very little difference from Christian history.  The differing sects fight among themselves for dominance and unite only when an outside threat comes around and when that threat is over they go back to fighting for dominance among themselves.  One of the greatest fears in western Islam is not the United States or it’s allies invading and occupying the holy lands.  The fear is that Iran will invade and occupy the Sunni holy lands.

  If Allah was truly interested in the health and welfare of his chosen followers would not he establish his chosen followers above all others in Islam.  Would not Allah say the Sunni’s or Shiite’s are my true followers and that any member of Islam who does not heed them will be forsaken.  That is why I reject the God/Jesus because Christianity is to fractured and independent of each other for any of the sects to lay claim to being the only true and righteous followers of the only true and living God.

  While I do believe that God or Gods exist I believe they are individual and personal Gods.  That they establish followers on a personal and individual basis, that they do not write infallible holy books which can be so easily invalidated.  That they do not demand obedience at the point of a divine gun barrel.  Any God who can establish a relationship with an individual and who can provide the evidence and proofs needed for that individual to believe.

  Can do the same to everyone, why would a God who can establish personal and individual relationships with people have any need for so called holy books.
 

Quote from: "some light plz"the logical question is : who did tell prophet Mohammad about the beginning of creation ?

If Mohammed had actually known about how the earth began and wasn't just rambling then the description of how everything started wouldn't have to be written so cryptically.

It's like Nostradamus' junk, when you write poetically in a vague manner it's only a matter of time till some of what you said can be singled out as applying to a historical event.  Yet those who want to believe you are a prophet will ignore all the misses and celebrate the hits.

Funny how the scientists who figured out the creation of planets from nebulae used real evidence and scientific reasoning, , and then, AFTER that had happened, we realised the Koran held the answer. If the Koran held so much scientific information within its pages, you would expect Muslim scholars to lead the field, using the book to guide them in the right direction, but it seems to more usual sequence of events involves a scientific discovery, and then after that, a Muslim searches through the pages for something that could be interpreted in such a way as to be in line with the science.

QuoteThis word " smoke" describes the matter before the universe toll its shape-the hot cosmic smoke present during the creation of the universe . As now acknowledged by scientist .

  No.  The earliest eras of the universe did not contain particles the size of smoke particles.  In fact, there were not even atoms in the first three eras of the universe, according to current thinking by cosmologists.  It was not until many thousands of years after the Big Bang that atoms were able to form.  Atoms are considerably smaller than smoke particles, as you well know.  All of your sources are talking about cosmic dust.  This is a product of the universe that developed long, long after the very earliest periods.  A couple of pages for you to look at, since you're willing to examine current thinking in cosmology in comparison to your holy book:

The Physics of the Early Universe (http://www.ph.surrey.ac.uk/astrophysics/files/earlyphysics.html)

Graphical timeline of the Big Bang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphical_timeline_of_the_Big_Bang)

Thanks Mark , for these  interesting notes

Quote from: "Mark L Holland"eTo some light pls

  I admit that what you posted is interesting, but as with the Christian and Jewish holy books they too contain things which if looked at in a certain way might seem to make sense.  I and others have invalidated the Old and new testaments as being the infallible truth of a God or Gods.  While I have never looked at the Koran I would bet dollars to donuts that it to contains lies and contradictions within it’s pages.

The challenge of the holy Quran has been established before 1400 years by these verses :
((88. Say: "If the whole of mankind and Jinns were to gather together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support. )) Surah 17
((23. And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true. 24. But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.)) Surah 2 .
And no person dares to challenge the holy Quran , my comment is not a challenge for you [ forbid ]. I will be you hand and helper at this point . if you wish to choose one of two ways :
1- directly read the holy Quran for multi reasons : [ to know Islam , to know why you are living , and the most important to know God , challenging  ] in any way you will not find one error .
2- visit the websites that attack the holy Quran , I will be glad to reveal the truth for you .

Quote from: "Mark L Holland"eTo some light pls
  To know that Islam is no different then the Christian and Jewish beliefs is to look at their past and history.  Is there any thing in the history of Islam that shows the hand of a divine being protecting it or blessing it.  No, the holy lands of Islam have been invaded and conquered by heathens for centuries.  Did Allah at any time in the history of Islam smite with a mighty hand the enemies of his followers, No.

I think you know  the golden age of the Islamic civilization which was from the border of China in east to the Atlantic Ocean in west  to Spain in Europe , this civilization  continued more than 1000 years. But it passed as many civilizations before it . also it will return . this civilization was not  raise up if prophet Mohammad and the holy Quran are not existed.
Why Allah allowed this to happen to his followers ?
((214. Or do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him cried: "When (will come) the help of Allah." Ah! Verily, the help of Allah is (always) near! )) Surah 2
I hope you read the verse well ,
Through history , prophets were the most persons who faced [ suffering , annoying ,persecution , even some prophets have been killed ] . also after they died many people still annoying them
Our life in this earth is a station for the everlasting  life in paradise or hell , and Allah is testing us . are we going to succeed or fail in this test  ?
 ((1. Blessed be He in Whose hands is Dominion; and He over all things hath Power;- 2. He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving;-  )) Surah 67
Therefore the love of Allah does not mean you must live in a palace or become a rich person , or to enjoy the delights of this life . contrary if Allah loves a person the test will be harder  and stronger and the examples are his prophets

Quote from: "Mark L Holland"eTo some light pls
 All of the European nations who raped, pillaged and plundered Islamic Holy Lands all still exist.  The United States who now occupies vast tracks of Holy Islamic Lands is still here and still powerful, though bankrupted and hurting.  If Allah was truly real and truly interested in the health and welfare of his followers why would he allow such enemy nations to still exist and still plague his chosen followers

Before 1400 years , Prophet Mohammad peace be upon him said : ((It will come a time where other nations will attack the Muslim Omah and cut pieces of  its body. The companions wondered and said, is it because we are few at that time prophet of Allah, he said no, you will be so many, but you will be like the trash sweeped by the flood, there is a lot of trash flushed by the flood, but it has no value. And Allah will take away the fear to you from the hearts of your enemies, and Allah will put the diseases of weakness in you heart called (Wahan). The companions asked him what is this decease of weakness prophet of Allah, he said the love of this life (Donia) and the hatred of death.))

Quote from: "Mark L Holland"eTo some light pls
And in Islam like Christianity and Judaism cannot even agree on the interpretations and understandings of the Koran.  There is no unified or universal belief structure in Islam before the Christian Crusaders the Islamic tribes were fighting and killing each other because each group thought that only they had the infallible truths of Allah and that all others needed to accept that belief and killed those that rejected their authority. In the end Islamic history has very little difference from Christian history.  The differing sects fight among themselves for dominance and unite only when an outside threat comes around and when that threat is over they go back to fighting for dominance among themselves.  One of the greatest fears in western Islam is not the United States or it’s allies invading and occupying the holy lands.  The fear is that Iran will invade and occupy the Sunni holy lands.

Prophet Mohammad mentioned that before 1400 years about us , he said : Allah drew the ends of the world near one another for my sake. And I have seen its eastern and western ends. And the dominion of my Unimah would reach those ends which have been drawn near me and I have been granted the red and the white trea- sure and I begged my Lord for my Ummah that it should not be destroyed because of famine, nor be dominated by an enemy who is not amongst them to take their lives and destroy them root and branch, and my Lord said: Muhammad, whenever I make a decision, there is none to change it. Well, I grant you for your Ummah that it would not be destroyed by famine and it would not be dominated by an enemy who would not be amongst it and would take their lives and destroy them root and branch even if all the people from the different parts of the world join hands together (for this purpose), but it would be from amongst them, viz. your Ummah, that some people would kill the others or imprison the others.

Something written on us by Allah … this is his will as long as the Muslims became sects . and it will disappear when Muslims follow one path , the path of prophet Mohammad

 

Quote from: "Mark L Holland"eTo some light pls
If Allah was truly interested in the health and welfare of his chosen followers would not he establish his chosen followers above all others in Islam.  Would not Allah say the Sunni’s or Shiite’s are my true followers and that any member of Islam who does not heed them will be forsaken.  That is why I reject the God/Jesus because Christianity is to fractured and independent of each other for any of the sects to lay claim to being the only true and righteous followers of the only true and living God.

Allah did not command us to follow the people , he commanded us to follow the paths of prophet Mohammad  . it is very easy to know the path without looking to Sunni or Shiites .

Quote from: "Mark L Holland"eTo some light pls
While I do believe that God or Gods exist I believe they are individual and personal Gods.  That they establish followers on a personal and individual basis, that they do not write infallible holy books which can be so easily invalidated.  That they do not demand obedience at the point of a divine gun barrel.  Any God who can establish a relationship with an individual and who can provide the evidence and proofs needed for that individual to believe.  Can do the same to everyone, why would a God who can establish personal and individual relationships with people have any need for so called holy books.
 

All prophets have the same call to worship one God " the creator of heavens and earth " . therefore I would like to tell you that the holy Quran is different than other holy books [ OT and NT ] . the holy Quran reveals the truth about :
1-   God .
2-   prophets .
3-   the great slander against God and prophets in the bible .
4-   reveals the truth for Christians about God .
5-   reveals the truth for atheists about God .

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat":brick:

Its still better than magic, or magik, or majic apologetics. However you want to spell it. I dated this chick once who claimed she couldn’t find her car keys. So she set up some ritual and casted a spell. Maybe a week later she stumbled upon her keys. The spell had worked!!!  lol  What about the truth for muslims and jews?

Quote from: "G-Roll"

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat":brick:

Its still better than magic, or magik, or majic apologetics. However you want to spell it. I dated this chick once who claimed she couldn’t find her car keys. So she set up some ritual and casted a spell. Maybe a week later she stumbled upon her keys. The spell had worked!!!  :brick: was for: anything that can possibly come up in this thread has likely already been addressed in that thread well over a year ago.

Quote from: "SSY"Funny how the scientists who figured out the creation of planets from nebulae used real evidence and scientific reasoning, , and then, AFTER that had happened, we realised the Koran held the answer. If the Koran held so much scientific information within its pages, you would expect Muslim scholars to lead the field, using the book to guide them in the right direction, but it seems to more usual sequence of events involves a scientific discovery, and then after that, a Muslim searches through the pages for something that could be interpreted in such a way as to be in line with the science.

I am sure this verse is enough to reveal the truth
((53  . Soon will We show them our Signs in the (furthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things? )) Surah 41
indeed , the unbelievers  are the people who discover the signs of Allah in regions and our body . why ??
1-   to believe in Allah , the one and the only .
2-   these signs are going to be a witness against them , if  they insist to reject Allah .

therefore Allah revealed for  his prophet and for all believers , what their hearts tells :

( 13. But when Our Signs came to them, that should have opened their eyes, they said: "This is sorcery manifest!"14. And they rejected those Signs in iniquity and arrogance, though their souls were convinced thereof: so see what was the end of those who acted corruptly! ) Surah 27 .

I hope that all of you are not among  them

the logical question is : who did tell prophet Mohammad that the unbelievers will discover regions and our human's body   ?

Quote from: "some light plz"therefore Allah revealed for  his prophet and for all believers , what their hearts tells :

( 13. But when Our Signs came to them, that should have opened their eyes, they said: "This is sorcery manifest!"14. And they rejected those Signs in iniquity and arrogance, though their souls were convinced thereof: so see what was the end of those who acted corruptly! ) Surah 27 .

That verse is not related to the other verses you claim talk about the universe:

QuoteSurah12 Now put your hand into your bosom, and it will come forth white without stain: these are among the nine signs you will take to Firaun and his people: for they are a people rebellious in transgression.

It was talking about miraculous signs...not scientists finding things that people later (incorrectly) attribute to having been said in the Koran.

To some light pls

  I appreciated your post,  it was well written and thought out.  The problem I have with Allah is the same problem I have with Jehovah and God/Jesus.  Any God that needs holy books and second hand testimony to prove his/her/it’s existence is a weak God.  The God that I believe in simply touched my soul and said “I am here” to prove his/her/it’s existence.  While I believe my God guided me to write my book, my book was not about him/her/it.

  It was simply to invalidate the N/T and O/T Gods and their holy books, my God has never given me his/her/it’s infallible truths or asked me to write his/her/it’s  infallible holy book.  He/she/it simply proved his/her/it’s existence and then let me to find out on my own what his/her/it’s name, image and persona is that I need to believe in.  And the name, image and persona that I have applies to me only, they are not valid to others.  It is up to the Gods to prove their existence, not so called holy books or righteous priesthoods, but the Gods themselves must give the evidence and proofs needed to establish their existence.

  One day I might be motivated enough to read the Koran and document it’s flaws and contradictions even though you consider it to be infallible the Christian made the same false claims about their bible and they were proven wrong.  If Allah has given you the evidence and proofs you need to believe in him, then be happy with that but the simple fact is that second hand testimony and so called holy books cannot prove the existence of Gods only Gods can do that.
 

Some light plz, I would like to point out something and ask a question:

First, I believe you are a good person. You probably do not endorse the killing of women or children. I don't think you would endorse fanatical conquest of america killing all infidels. My question, then, is that if some other verse were put in place of the ones you have pointed out, if the koran had been written differently, would that in any way change your views towards murder or genocide, of torture or stealing? Would trampling on the dignity of a baby have any different meaning in your view?

I do not think that you would suddenly commit all sorts of atrocities towards fathers, children, and orphans, or rape the poor and drink vodka every day, even if the koran had been written completely differently. If this is true, then I would like to ask you to consider other cultures and beliefs as simply alternative korans, ones that don't have the truth behind them, for that alone belongs to the koran, but alternative korans. Like you, these people reading their alternative korans and with their different beliefs, they also do not condone evil. They do not rape or kill or steal normally. In fact, if terrorists do not follow the will of allah because of their hate, then perhaps people who maybe do not read the koran but lead lives of love and fellowship also follow the will of allah, who is present in everything.

I respect your beliefs, founded by Allah, and I do not claim at all in any way that they are definitively false. I don't want you to convert to atheism, I don't want you to become christian. I feel that it is enough that we are all Allah's children, and I only ask that you not burden yourself with trying to justify islam in the face of all threats. So long as you live as one with Allah, you will most likely be happy and in paradise, and is that not a small price to pay for reprieve from defending your faith?

Inshallah, my friend, (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg707.imageshack.us%2Fimg707%2F4130%2Fm7yt5l.gif&hash=391de2ab825dd64994b447404864587d1481f95f)

To Whitney

the holy Quran written by Arabic language and the message of Allah by the Arabic language  , and we are reading an effort of a good people such as you who try to translate  this message to you by your language .. therefore we named these books " translation of the holy Quran ' .
there is very clear difference  between the Arabic and the English language .the Arabic language is  stronger and more beautiful than the English language .

((190. Verily in that is a Sign: but most of them do not believe. 191. And verily thy Lord is He, the Exalted in Might, Most Merciful. 192. Verily this is a Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds: 193. With it came down the spirit of Faith and Truth- 194. To thy heart and mind, that thou mayest admonish. 195. In the perspicuous Arabic tongue)) Surah 26

Dear Whitney :
just to inform you maybe my next words  are against the rules of AHF , .. and you have the right to delete them if you consider it  preaching .

A lot of people promoters of this saying (( the Quran has been authorship by  Mohammad  )) But the Quranic verses answered them very clearly with this bright truth :(( This book is impossible to be author by prophet Mohamed ))

1-    sometimes inspiration of Allah came to admonish Prophet Mohammad : (([1] (The Prophet) frowned and turned away, [2] Because there came to him the blind man (interrupting). [3] But what could tell thee but that perchance he might grow (in spiritual understanding)? )) Surah 80

2-    sometimes inspiration of Allah Contrary to conduct of the Prophet Mohammad: (([67] It is not fitting for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he hath thoroughly subdued the land. Ye look for the temporal goods of this world; but Allah looketh to the Hereafter: and Allah is Exalted in might, Wise. [68] Had it not been for a previous ordainment from Allah, a severe penalty would have reached you for the (ransom) that ye took. )) Surah 8

3-    sometimes the inspiration of Allah came as a command : ((O Apostle! proclaim the (Message) which hath been sent to thee from thy Lord. If thou didst not, thou wouldst not have fulfilled and proclaimed His Mission. And Allah will defend thee from men (who mean mischief). For Allah guideth not those who reject Faith. )) Surah 67 …
 
4-    this verse is more dangers : ((Behold! thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favour: "Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah." But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah )) Surah 37

5-    or he was able to  say that I am the one who achieved all victories : ((Assuredly Allah did help you in many battle-fields and on the day of Hunain: behold! your great numbers elated you, but they availed you naught: the land, for all that it is wide, did constrain you, and ye turned back in retreat. )) Surah 9 :25 and also in this verse  : ((It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah's: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself: for Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things). )) Surah  8 : 17

6-  if it is not inspiration  he should hide this verse : ((Say: "I am no bringer of new-fangled doctrine among the Messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration: I am but a Warner open and clear." )) Surah

7-      and this verse should be hidden ((Say: "It is not in my power to cause you harm, or to bring you to right conduct." ))Surah 72

8-  and this verse is impossible to be from prophet Mohammad : ((But it has already been revealed to thee, - as it was to those before thee - "If thou wert to join (gods with Allah), truly fruitless will be thy work (in life), and thou wilt surely be in the ranks of those who lose (all spiritual good)." )) .

9-    the verse explains itself ((And thus have We, by Our command, sent inspiration to thee: thou knewest not (before) what was Revelation, and what was Faith: but We have made the (Qur-an) a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will; and verily thou dost guide (men) to the Straight Way; ))

10 - The Holy Koran does not speaks about the human Mohammad who lives as other humans and Faced in his life  shocks and sadness, for examples :his wife and his uncle died in the same year and you will never find a word in Quran mentioned them , also when his Childs three sons died the Quran never mentioned them . this  book does not speaks about his happiness times or his sadness times . it is a book about almighty  Allah .

these were some examples.

furthermore : it is impossible for prophet Mohammad who was unlettered person lived in desert environment .. his early life was in Grazing sheep .. lived among  a people  does not know prophets in them , to speak about the modern sciences  before 1400 . and more than that he speaks about  beginning and the end of universe and the modern science proves that he was right in each word .

thanks

Quote from: "some light plz"Arabic language is  stronger and more beautiful than the English language .

People who speak English have no problem conveying their intentions when writing.  There is no reason why whatever is said in the Quran can't be translated coherently into English.

It also doesn't change the fact that the verse I pointed out in my previous post has absolutely nothing to do with the other verses you were using to claim the Koran demonstrated knowledge about the universe that was ahead of its time.

To  Renegnicat

  Damn that was a good post.   :bananacolor:

Quote from: "Renegnicat"Some light plz, I would like to point out something and ask a question:

First, I believe you are a good person. You probably do not endorse the killing of women or children. I don't think you would endorse fanatical conquest of america killing all infidels. My question, then, is that if some other verse were put in place of the ones you have pointed out, if the koran had been written differently, would that in any way change your views towards murder or genocide, of torture or stealing? Would trampling on the dignity of a baby have any different meaning in your view?

I do not think that you would suddenly commit all sorts of atrocities towards fathers, children, and orphans, or rape the poor and drink vodka every day, even if the koran had been written completely differently. If this is true, then I would like to ask you to consider other cultures and beliefs as simply alternative korans, ones that don't have the truth behind them, for that alone belongs to the koran, but alternative korans. Like you, these people reading their alternative korans and with their different beliefs, they also do not condone evil. They do not rape or kill or steal normally. In fact, if terrorists do not follow the will of allah because of their hate, then perhaps people who maybe do not read the koran but lead lives of love and fellowship also follow the will of allah, who is present in everything.

I respect your beliefs, founded by Allah, and I do not claim at all in any way that they are definitively false. I don't want you to convert to atheism, I don't want you to become christian. I feel that it is enough that we are all Allah's children, and I only ask that you not burden yourself with trying to justify islam in the face of all threats. So long as you live as one with Allah, you will most likely be happy and in paradise, and is that not a small price to pay for reprieve from defending your faith?

Inshallah, my friend, (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg707.imageshack.us%2Fimg707%2F4130%2Fm7yt5l.gif&hash=391de2ab825dd64994b447404864587d1481f95f)

the treasure of  USA  was the perfect image which is the land of freedom and human rights . but through the past 30 years the government of the USA Destroyed  this image ,more than that  this image is only a fake image .

Yes , yes , yes .

The USA government knew the importance of this image and its value , so it spent   much money on propaganda and fake media to improve its image . but what happened is the opposite of that , day after day the ugly face for this country , sorry your government appears and expose more and more .

even if USA has a full authority on world media and using it in sinking the world by [ movies , programs , ..... ] and as long as I mentioned movies  then surely Hollywood will be available through the American soldiers who are going to save the world and our mother America from communism of Russia , fascism of Italy   , or Nazism of  Germany , and our moment the terrorism of Islam . or their myths heroes [ superman , hellboy , Rambo,……… ] . truly the American people in need for these movies so they do not feel the frustration about what happening in the real world against their ugly  government .

I am sure that most of the American people are infected by the flood of material desires and pleasures : [ women , sex , wine , drugs , stars , music and songs ,parties , dance , joy  â€¦â€¦â€¦ ] and truly they do not know what is happening in the world .

After 9/11 : the USA media asked a silly question to let  their people live in darkness  : why they hate us ?

This question was false and faked , but the answer was more unsavory and futile and racial , the answer was : they hate us because we are democrat  and wonderful and rich !!!

The Americans forgot : more than 50 years  supported and helped the Jews against the Palestine by money and weapons , also the objections by [ VITO ] on many decisions against Israel .

The Americans forgot : that they are the cause of many wars in the world and many troubles in many countries .

The Americans forgot : that they came to our lands with their technology, Navy forces to kill us for Oil of Iraq or for strategic place as Afghanistan by depending on a false claim : [ war against terrorism ] or [ who is not with us , then he is against us ] .

Truly : I do not blame the American people , but I blame  your government's tyranny . because: for each victim in 9/11 the revenge was 1000 victims Muslims . 1 American = 1000 Muslims .

But did your government achieve its targets and destroy  terrorism ?

No . USA is capitalist country , which means your humanity level depend on your wallet . and USA losses in its war in Iraq and Afghanistan [ billions of dollars , soldiers , prestige , confederates ,  â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦ ] and the Americans people and the world are paying the bills of these mirage wars .

I would like to continue . but I know I will face a big wave of anger from many people here .

Sorry :we do not blame the peaceful people  but we blame your government .
----------------------------------------------
But did you look at Islam through the lens  of your brain , or the lens of your Media  ?
Do you accept that Muslims judge on your nation  according to  government acts  ?

My friend :
Islam comes from the word Salam which means peace . if the admin allows me to write about  the Islamic Law with non Muslims . you will be amaze in what you will read .
But a verse will lights for you the way :
((O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware. )) Surah 49:13
Allah said : that ye may know one another ,  not kill each other .

So if 10 thousands Muslims were mistaken and acted wrong . pelase do not judge on 1.2 billion Muslims who want to live in peace like you but your government do not want this peace for them .

The disturbances and wars in :
1-   Sudan .
2-   Yemen .
3-   Pakistan .
4-   Iraq .
5-   Lebanon .
6-   Somali.
7-   Afghanistan 0
8-   South of Saudi Arabia .
9-   Iran .
10-   Palestine .
11-    Chechnya .
12-    Indonesia .
By secularism governments. they destroyed the communism in Russia and the only enemy remained is Islam . not the terrorism as they claim.   but they can not :
((Fain would they put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light however much the disbelievers are averse. )) Surah 61 :8

3 months were enough to solve the world economic problem , but 70 years were not enough to solve the Palestinian problem . those on thrones are laughing on us .
You are reading the news , and Muslims its events .
Thanks …. My regard .

To some light pls

  You are right, and please accept my apologies for what we have done.
 

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "some light plz"Arabic language is stronger and more beautiful than the English language .

People who speak English have no problem conveying their intentions when writing.  There is no reason why whatever is said in the Quran can't be translated coherently into English.

It also doesn't change the fact that the verse I pointed out in my previous post has absolutely nothing to do with the other verses you were using to claim the Koran demonstrated knowledge about the universe that was ahead of its time.

There are perfectly good reasons that the Quran can't be translated coherently into English namely all the grammatical mistakes that are in... oh wait... I shouldn't be saying this... I'll "disappear" like all the experts who were willing to admit this over the years.  The Quran *is* absolutely perfect in every way...even grammar... I mean... it was Mohamed's only miracle to prove his prophet status after all...

I must admit the amazing devotion that is given to the book though is quite amazing... I mean, changing an entire language's grammatical and syntactical rules based on the grammatical errors of the compiler! Wowsers!

-Ihateusernames

QuoteThe disturbances and wars in :
1- Sudan .
2- Yemen .
3- Pakistan .
4- Iraq .
5- Lebanon .
6- Somali.
7- Afghanistan 0
8- South of Saudi Arabia .
9- Iran .
10- Palestine .
11- Chechnya .
12- Indonesia .

im not saying i trust our government or that our capitalism is helpful to the rest of the world. nor am i saying that we actually have any businesses in some of those areas of the world....
but i dont care what countries you put on that list, i would much rather travel out millions of miles and fight in one of those countries than fight their troops here in the US. maybe that makes me a bad person... but im cool with that. i dont want to be the home team. im sure the countries listed above dont want us killing their people and breaking their shit either, but we got the bigger stick and swing it harder. and i have no doubt if we where the weaker country and any of those countries listed could just show up and take what they wanted to... would they not? if they had the power would the tables not be turned?

Mark L Holland

QuoteTo some light pls

You are right, and please accept my apologies for what we have done.

i do respect that you would apologize because our government has done some f*cked up stuff, but i just hope you dont enjoy reaping the benefits of everyday american life. if you live some alternative lifestyle i will retract this statement, but it erks me to hear americans complain about how evil we are then go and take FULL advantage of the boon those evil deeds bring to our country. again im not saying we do right by world peace... but name a government who does. name a perfect county... no one wants peace except peaceful civilians (how many of those do you truly know? By truly I mean willing to give up their current lifestyle, beliefs, and prejudices for peace).  Everyone wants something from someone else and if need be they will kill for it. whether it be oil, territory, religion, or they just plain dont like them.

bah this post is turning into a rant...

all humans are equally disgusting… it doesn’t matter where you live.

Hello G-roll
The holy Quran mentioned the names of the gods during prophet Noah peace be upon him
((And they have said: Forsake not your gods. Forsake not Wadd, nor Suwa', nor Yaghuth and Ya'uq and Nasr. )) Surah 71 :23

Also the holy Quran mentioned a unique false  god , hidden god
((Hast thou seen him who maketh his desire his god ; and Allah sendeth him astray purposely, and sealeth up his hearing and his heart, and setteth on his sight a covering? Then who will lead him after Allah (hath condemned him)? Will ye not then heed?)) Surah 45 : 23

many false gods . does not mean we reject and deny the real god . but prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him will show you the path , with his highest logic against those people who follow false gods :
1-A conversation with people who worshipped stars [ sun and moon ] :

75. So also did We show Abraham the power and the laws of the heavens and the earth, that he might (with understanding) have certitude.
76. When the night covered him over, He saw a star: He said: "This is my Lord." But when it set, He said: "I love not those that set."
77. When he saw the moon rising in splendour, he said: "This is my Lord." But when the moon set, He said: "unless my Lord guide me, I shall surely be among those who go astray."
78. When he saw the sun rising in splendour, he said: "This is my Lord; this is the greatest (of all)." But when the sun set, he said: "O my people! I am indeed free from your (guilt) of giving partners to Allah.
79. "For me, I have set my face, firmly and truly, towards Him Who created the heavens and the earth, and never shall I give partners to Allah."
80. His people disputed with him. He said: "(Come) ye to dispute with me, about Allah, when He (Himself) hath guided me? I fear not (the beings) ye associate with Allah. Unless my Lord willeth, (nothing can happen). My Lord comprehendeth in His knowledge all things. Will ye not (yourselves) be admonished?
81. "How should I fear (the beings) ye associate with Allah, when ye fear not to give partners to Allah without any warrant having been given to you? Which of (us) two parties hath more right to security? (tell me) if ye know.
82. "It is those who believe and confuse not their beliefs with wrong - that are (truly) in security, for they are on (right) guidance."
83. That was the reasoning about Us, which We gave to Abraham (to use) against his people: We raise whom We will, degree after degree: for thy Lord is full of wisdom and knowledge.

2-A conversation with people who worshipped idols :
51. We bestowed aforetime on Abraham his rectitude of conduct, and well were We acquainted with him.
52. Behold! he said to his father and his people, "What are these images, to which ye are (so assiduously) devoted?"
53. They said, "We found our fathers worshipping them."
54. He said, "Indeed ye have been in manifest error - ye and your fathers."
55. They said, "Have you brought us the Truth, or are you one of those who jest?"
56. He said, "Nay, your Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, He Who created them (from nothing): and I am a witness to this (Truth).
57. "And by Allah, I have a plan for your idols - after ye go away and turn your backs"..
58. So he broke them to pieces, (all) but the biggest of them, that they might turn (and address themselves) to it.
59. They said, "Who has done this to our gods? He must indeed be some man of impiety!"
60. They said, "We heard a youth talk of them: He is called Abraham."
61. They said, "Then bring him before the eyes of the people, that they may bear witness."
62. They said, "Art thou the one that did this with our gods, O Abraham?"
63. He said: "Nay, this was done by - this is their biggest one! ask them, if they can speak intelligently!"
64. So they turned to themselves and said, "Surely ye are the ones in the wrong!"
65. Then were they confounded with shame: (they said), "Thou knowest full well that these (idols) do not speak!"
66. (Abraham) said, "Do ye then worship, besides Allah, things that can neither be of any good to you nor do you harm?
67. "Fie upon you, and upon the things that ye worship besides Allah. Have ye no sense?"..

3-   A conversation with a king  who thinks he is a god :((258. Hast thou not Turned thy vision to one who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, because Allah had granted him power? Abraham said: "My Lord is He Who Giveth life and death." He said: "I give life and death". Said Abraham: "But it is Allah that causeth the sun to rise from the east: Do thou then cause him to rise from the West." Thus was he confounded who (in arrogance) rejected faith. Nor doth Allah Give guidance to a people unjust. )) Surah 2

Dear G-roll
All the false gods will fail in front of your great mind and the only  god who will remain is the real God , but you need a guide

I will continue with prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him .
Thanks , my regard

To G-roll

  And many of those things that we have gained by our actions are the death and destructions of the wars that have sprung up from those actions.  We felt safe behind our ocean walls.  Believing that we could not be attacked and we acted with the pride that false belief caused.  The United States is on it’s way to becoming a second world nation, it is bankrupting itself to sustain the image that we are the great caretakers of righteousness in the world.

  Those who refuse to learn history are destined to repeat history.  Ignoring our mistakes and refusing to acknowledge those mistakes only means that those same mistakes will occur again and again.  The United States is quickly going the way of the Roman impire who reached the peak of their power and authority and collapsed because of their ego’s and belief that they were the greatest nation on earth and that nothing could change that.

  The only difference between us and the Romans is that they went out with a wimper, whereas with our nuclear and advance technologies we can go out with one hell of a big bang.  And based upon the history of our governments actions, it seems likely that we will take the world with us before allowing ourselves to become second rate.
 :bananacolor:

QuoteThose who refuse to learn history are destined to repeat history. Ignoring our mistakes and refusing to acknowledge those mistakes only means that those same mistakes will occur again and again. The United States is quickly going the way of the Roman impire who reached the peak of their power and authority and collapsed because of their ego’s and belief that they were the greatest nation on earth and that nothing could change that.

i often find myself saying that.

i know most of what you typed is true/right. i just hope we can take our country back from whatever super power stole it or bought it out from under us when we werent looking. i could just be crazy but maybe i just somehow became wiser in my age instead of just older, but the US today is not the country i remember growing up in.

Lol, i still mean my comment about the stick and swinging it.

Quote from: "G-Roll"

QuoteThose who refuse to learn history are destined to repeat history. Ignoring our mistakes and refusing to acknowledge those mistakes only means that those same mistakes will occur again and again. The United States is quickly going the way of the Roman impire who reached the peak of their power and authority and collapsed because of their ego’s and belief that they were the greatest nation on earth and that nothing could change that.

i often find myself saying that.

i know most of what you typed is true/right. i just hope we can take our country back from whatever super power stole it or bought it out from under us when we werent looking. i could just be crazy but maybe i just somehow became wiser in my age instead of just older, but the US today is not the country i remember growing up in.

Lol, i still mean my comment about the stick and swinging it.

Good points, guys. We've been giving this country away for a long time, and patting ourselves on our collective backs while doing it. Definitely akin to the adage about Nero, a fiddle, and a big, big fire.

To McQ and G-Roll

  While the selling out of the country was done behind the backs of the citizens, it was not done accidentally or blindly.   I still do not know what Clinton got in selling out our rocket and missile technology to China, I personally cannot see any benefit that we got out of the deal.  But what I would like to know is what kind of back room deals were made by Bush the Father to buy off China and Russia to get his war, and what kind of back room deals Bush the Son made to get his war in Iraq.

  It is no accident that Chinese dry wall that turns into mold within months of instillation or Chinese steel that collapses under it’s own weight went through the US customs without any verification whatsoever or Chinese drugs that kill people or dog food that kills pets.  This is happening because giving the Chinese a free ride into our economy by supplying inferior or dangerous products at reduced prices under cutting American manufacturers was their payoff for not vetoing the war.

  While Russia’s pay off was our updating and advancing their the early warning system and dropping restrictions against them bringing in advanced technologies.  Which actually I do not mind, people would be scared silly to know just how many times we came close to having nuclear wars either through stupidity or accidentally so I have no problems with upgrading Russian early warning technologies.  But it was still a pay off.
 

25. And We also sent down iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind )) Surah 57

http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/70mi ... f_iron.php (http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/70miracle_of_iron.php)

who did tell prophet Mohammad about Iron ?

Quote from: "some light plz"25. And We also sent down iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind )) Surah 57

http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/70mi ... f_iron.php (http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/70miracle_of_iron.php)

who did tell prophet Mohammad about Iron ?

I notice that you didn't bother to take note of or reply in any way to my previous response to your original post, so I expect to receive the same silence again.  You really should work on your technique.  Have you ever heard the phrase, "qui tacet consentit" (silence implies consent)?  I'm not saying that you agree with my answer, but by not replying, you make it seem like maybe you don't have any reasonable (or even unreasonable) way to respond.  Onward...

You may not be aware of the fact that a good percentage of the Earth is iron.  Most of it is under our feet, not "sent down."  There was no "down" for iron to be sent to until the planet was formed, and as I said, a certain percentage of the material that accumulated to form the planet was iron.  So that iron, in reality, was never "sent down."  The fact that this iron originated inside stars which lived and died before this solar system even came into existence is not even hinted at in the line from your holy book which you quote.  Once the Earth formed, the only iron which has come from the sky has been in the form of meteorites, which were in fact a source of relatively easily accessible iron during the the Iron Age.  But no deity needed to tell your prophet about that.  People knew about meteoric iron for thousands of years before he was born.  Pull the other one.

QuoteOnce the Earth formed, the only iron which has come from the sky has been in the form of meteorites, which were in fact a source of relatively easily accessible iron during the the Iron Age. But no deity needed to tell your prophet about that. People knew about meteoric iron for thousands of years before he was born. Pull the other one.

It truly is a lost cause.....  I suppose this is what you get when one mistakes ancient mysticism for a science text book.  

To some light pls

  Sorry but nothing you quote from the Torah can prove the existence of God or Gods.  The only thing that can prove the existence of God or Gods is if God or Gods give the evidences and proofs needed for one or everyone to know of their existence
 

QuoteI notice that you didn't bother to take note of or reply in any way to my previous response to your original post, so I expect to receive the same silence again.  You really should work on your technique.  Have you ever heard the phrase, "qui tacet consentit" (silence implies consent)?  I'm not saying that you agree with my answer, but by not replying, you make it seem like maybe you don't have any reasonable (or even unreasonable) way to respond.  Onward...

You may not be aware of the fact that a good percentage of the Earth is iron.  Most of it is under our feet, not "sent down."  There was no "down" for iron to be sent to until the planet was formed, and as I said, a certain percentage of the material that accumulated to form the planet was iron.  So that iron, in reality, was never "sent down."  The fact that this iron originated inside stars which lived and died before this solar system even came into existence is not even hinted at in the line from your holy book which you quote.  Once the Earth formed, the only iron which has come from the sky has been in the form of meteorites, which were in fact a source of relatively easily accessible iron during the the Iron Age.  But no deity needed to tell your prophet about that.  People knew about meteoric iron for thousands of years before he was born.  Pull the other one.

To Recusant
your first comment
You brought your sources like I did  . also you announced your judgment when you said directly " NO " . which means :You refused my comment completely , even the sources .
But the doubting fills your heart about your information . so you sent this note " silence implies consent " ! to see my response .
there is a big difference between the discusser and the denier . please read the verse  again and again . you are in a valley and people in a valley
at last  :let the readers Judge .

your second comment  :
the verse speaks about Iron as an external metal comes from space .
did any one say this  before prophet Mohammad  ?
and your objection not about Iron … we both agreed that iron came from space after stars explosion " Dr. Harun yahya " mentioned that at the link . but your objection on the past verb " sent " because this verb needs an object " the sender " who is Allah .
also you did not bring any new information , once again :
did any one say  : " the iron has been sent down or came down " before prophet Mohammad  ?
and thanks for this valuable information about iron... you did not add anything .

-----------------------------------

therefore you try hard to avoid As far as possible Allah  . because if you agreed with my posts . means you agreed that Allah is existent . and this destroy your belief
keep on objections , it will not serve you

Quote from: "some light plz"...Dr. Harun yahya

Just a quick note, to my knowledge Oktar does not hold a doctorate in anything and Harun Yahya is a pen name.

Quote from: "some light plz"To Recusant
your first comment
You brought your sources like I did  . also you announced your judgment when you said directly " NO " . which means :You refused my comment completely , even the sources .
But the doubting fills your heart about your information . so you sent this note " silence implies consent " ! to see my response .
there is a big difference between the discusser and the denier . please read the verse  again and again . you are in a valley and people in a valley
at last  :let the readers Judge .

Apparently you did not actually read my reply to your original post, or are purposely ignoring what I said.  I specifically answered your contention that the early universe was comprised of "smoke."  It was not, thus my "No."  Your sources, as I pointed out in my reply, are all talking about cosmic dust.  Cosmic dust did not exist in the early eras of the universe.  I can read the verses you present for the rest of my life, and they still will not be relevant to the actual origin of the universe.  As you can see, I did read your sources, before I posted my first reply.  I wonder if you did the same with the sources which I provided?

Quote from: "some light plz"your second comment  :
the verse speaks about Iron as an external metal comes from space .
did any one say this  before prophet Mohammad  ?
and your objection not about Iron … we both agreed that iron came from space after stars explosion " Dr. Harun yahya " mentioned that at the link . but your objection on the past verb " sent " because this verb needs an object " the sender " who is Allah .
also you did not bring any new information , once again :
did any one say  : " the iron has been sent down or came down " before prophet Mohammad  ?
and thanks for this valuable information about iron... you did not add anything .

  All of this planet, other than helium, hydrogen, beryllium and lithium, originated inside stars.  Your prophet speaks only of iron, however.  Why is that? I would suggest that your prophet was speaking about meteoric iron, which as I said, was known well before his birth.  Why would he have singled out iron as something "sent down," as opposed to copper, gold, silver, etc. otherwise?

Quote from: "some light plz"therefore you try hard to avoid As far as possible Allah  . because if you agreed with my posts . means you agreed that Allah is existent . and this destroy your belief
keep on objections , it will not serve you

You brought your ideas about your holy book here.  You obviously want some response from those who do not agree with those ideas, otherwise you would be posting them in an Islamic website.  I have provided such response.  I do not "try hard to avoid As far as possible Allah," because I simply do not believe he exists.  It takes no effort to avoid that which does not exist.  I have put a bit of effort into providing replies which you have sought out by coming here, nothing more and nothing less.

Quote from: "some light plz"the verse speaks about Iron as an external metal comes from space .
did any one say this  before prophet Mohammad  ?
and your objection not about Iron … we both agreed that iron came from space after stars explosion " Dr. Harun yahya " mentioned that at the link . but your objection on the past verb " sent " because this verb needs an object " the sender " who is Allah .
also you did not bring any new information , once again :
did any one say  : " the iron has been sent down or came down " before prophet Mohammad  ?
and thanks for this valuable information about iron... you did not add anything .

-----------------------------------

therefore you try hard to avoid As far as possible Allah  . because if you agreed with my posts . means you agreed that Allah is existent . and this destroy your belief
keep on objections , it will not serve you

These words of yours stink of ignorance, plain and simple ignorance.

Sorry, but this stuff is just too much.

This post has been heavily edited due to extremely vulgar language directed at another poster.I don't do this without extremely good reason.

Quote from: "i_am_i"

Quote from: "some light plz"the verse speaks about Iron as an external metal comes from space .
did any one say this  before prophet Mohammad  ?
and your objection not about Iron … we both agreed that iron came from space after stars explosion " Dr. Harun yahya " mentioned that at the link . but your objection on the past verb " sent " because this verb needs an object " the sender " who is Allah .
also you did not bring any new information , once again :
did any one say  : " the iron has been sent down or came down " before prophet Mohammad  ?
and thanks for this valuable information about iron... you did not add anything .

-----------------------------------

therefore you try hard to avoid As far as possible Allah  . because if you agreed with my posts . means you agreed that Allah is existent . and this destroy your belief
keep on objections , it will not serve you

You ************. These words of yours stink of ignorance, plain and simple ignorance. You stupid ********. You don't know shit, do you?

Sorry, but this stuff is just too much. You ************.
************************.

i_am_i, you are getting an official warning about this post, as it is in every way, a violation of the rules of the forum. Please read the forum rules and note that it is not permissible to flame like this. In fact, I had to edit your post because of the extreme derogatory content.

To some light pls

  Only Allah can prove Allah.
 

To Recusant

a Simple word " Smoke " , the holy Quran cuts short the far distances in  research and the definitions and scientific names  " cosmic dust , Gas , hot Gas , ….. " to give you the exact word " SMOKE "
My sources said :
((with similar sizes to the particles in cigarette smoke ))
(( Interstellar dust particles are the size of smoke particles.))
(( Such particles are smaller than the diameter of a human hair and about the size of smoke particles. ))
which thing has the size of smoke particles ? Is it dust ,  or is it smoke .

------------------------
You said at  first comment :
No. The earliest eras of the universe did not contain particles the size of smoke particles. In fact, there were not even atoms in the first three eras of the universe, according to current thinking by cosmologists. It was not until many thousands of years after the Big Bang that atoms were able to form. Atoms are considerably smaller than smoke particles, as you well know. All of your sources are talking about cosmic dust. This is a product of the universe that developed long, long after the very earliest periods. A couple of pages for you to look at, since you're willing to examine current thinking in cosmology in comparison to your holy book:

Back to Quranic verses same Saurh :
((9. Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds.))
In Arabic the word " day " means : 24 hours or a very long period .

Which means Allah created earth in the first two ears .

((10. He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measure therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in four Days, in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance).))

In the fourth era Allah finished the creation of earth , also during the fourth era the sky  was smoke . then :
 
(( 11. Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."  ))

So cosmology agreed with Quran that Allah designed the sky in the fourth era .  long after the  big bang
----------------------------
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0307/16supernova/ (http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0307/16supernova/)

 " A team of UK astronomers have announced the discovery that some supernovae have bad habits -- they belch out huge quantities of 'smoke' known as cosmic dust. "
The name cosmic dust is a metaphorical name , the exact name is " smoke " .

To some light pls

  Look at it this way, even if Allah guided the writting of the Koran, which is as likely as king kong writing it.  All that would prove is that 1600 years ago there may have been a God called Allah, it does not prove that this God Allah is still alive and kicking.  If the only evidence for this God is 1600 years old then there is no knowing whether this God still exists or not.  If this God does not give modern proofs or evidence to show he exists then he does not exist.  He might have taken one look at how screwed up man kind was becoming and had a stroke and has been laying in a cosmic hospital bed for the last 1400 years crying like a little girl.
 

The Expansion of the Universe

In the holy Quran , which was revealed 1400 years  ago at a time when the science of astronomy was still primitive, the expansion of the universe was described like this:

( 47. And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it.) Surah 51

The word “heaven”, as stated in this verse, is used in various places in the Quran with the meaning of space and universe. Here again, the word is used with this meaning. In other words, in the Quran, it is communicated that the universe “expands”.

And this is the very conclusion that science has reached today.

Until the dawn of the 20th century, the only view prevailing in the world of science was that “the universe has a constant nature and it has existed since infinite time”. The research, observations, and calculations carried out by means of modern technology, however, revealed that the universe in fact had a beginning and that it constantly expands.

At the beginning of the 20th century, the Russian physicist Alexander Friedmann and the Belgian cosmologist Georges Lemaitre theoretically calculated that the universe is in constant motion and that it is expanding.

This fact was proved also by observational data in 1929. While observing the sky with a telescope, Edwin Hubble, the American astronomer, discovered that the stars and galaxies were constantly moving away from each other. A universe where everything constantly moves away from each other implied a constantly expanding universe. The observations carried out in the following years verified that the universe constantly expands. This fact was explained in the Quran when it was yet unknown by anyone.

The question : who did tell prophet Mohammad about the expanding universe ?

((53 . Soon will We show them our Signs in the (furthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things? )) Surah 41

Uhm, some light plz, you're really just wasting your time. Your efforts would be better served working on a group of people who don't demand actual, tangible, scientific evidence for these things.

I'll say it again in no uncertain terms: you are wasting your time.

Quote from: "some light plz"...So cosmology agreed with Quran...

I can understand why you would believe that the Quran has valid scientific information which pre-dates modern science in it.  It's been asserted by Maurice Bucaille, "Harun Yahya" and others, and as curiosityandthecat said earlier in this thread, people have come here before, saying the same thing.  Fortunately (I suppose) for you, your faith does not depend on these 'revelations of scientific fact' in the Quran.  Because there are other passages in the Quran which are clearly contrary to modern science.  The passages you have been quoting can be made to seem to agree with modern science, but in fact are vague enough that they can be understood in many different ways.  The Quran is written in the language of poetry, and good poetry is made to communicate on a deeper level than dry prose such as that written by scientists.  If you find that it strengthens your faith to give a scientific meaning to certain passages, then by all means do so.  If, on the other hand, you expect me, or any non-believer to accept that the Quran contains valid 21st century science, you will have a difficult time, because none of the passages you have quoted so far seem to have anything of the sort.  From what I've read, the science of the Quran is accurate by 7th century standards, but it does not contain any information which was not available at that time.  In fact, as recently as 1982, the respected sheikh Abdul Aziz Bin Baz issued a "fatwa that earth is flat and those Muslims who say otherwise contradict the Quranic teachings." **

Quote from: "some light plz"a Simple word " Smoke " , the holy Quran cuts short the far distances in research and the definitions and scientific names " cosmic dust , Gas , hot Gas , ….. " to give you the exact word " SMOKE "
My sources said :
((with similar sizes to the particles in cigarette smoke ))
(( Interstellar dust particles are the size of smoke particles.))
(( Such particles are smaller than the diameter of a human hair and about the size of smoke particles. ))
which thing has the size of smoke particles ? Is it dust , or is it smoke .

It is dust.  "Dust" is what those who spend their lives studying it call it, simply because that's what it is. Heidelberg Dust Research Group (http://www.mpi-hd.mpg.de/dustgroup/)

Quote from: "some light plz"Back to Quranic verses same Saurh :
((9. Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds.))
In Arabic the word " day " means : 24 hours or a very long period .

Which means Allah created earth in the first two ears .

If you have read the links I supplied in my first reply, you know that there were no stars, no planets, no dust, no, not even atoms in the first two eras of the universe.  As for the next portion of your post where you say that, "Allah designed the sky in the fourth era," I'm not sure what you're trying to say.  According to the information in the page Physics of the Early Universe (http://www.ph.surrey.ac.uk/astrophysics/files/earlyphysics.html) which I linked in my first reply, the fourth era is when matter was able to form for the first time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And now, on to your latest post in this thread:

Quote from: "some light plz"The question : who did tell prophet Mohammad about the expanding universe ?

You bring to our attention Surah 51 Ayah 47.  ÙˆÙŽØ§Ù,,سَÙ'Ù...َاء بَنَيÙ'نَاهَا بِأَيÙ'دٍ وَإِنَÙ'ا Ù,,ÙŽÙ...ُوسِعُونَ  This ayah has been translated various ways over the years:

QuoteM. Ali-- "And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and We are Makers of the vast extent." (1917)

QuoteM. Pickthall-- "We have built the heaven with might, and We it is who make the vast extent (thereof)." (1930)

QuoteY. Ali-- "With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of space." (1938)

QuoteM. Asad-- "AND IT IS We who have built the universe with [Our creative] power; and, verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it." (1980)

QuoteM.H. Shakir-- "And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample." (1983, but widely believed to be a plagiarism of Maulana Muhammad Ali's work of 1917)

QuoteR. Khalifa-- "We constructed the sky with our hands, and we will continue to expand it." (1989)

I asked for some help with this passage from a person who was a professional translator of Arabic, and this was his reply:

QuoteIt's poetry, and a beautiful passage.
I love how much you can get out of two words.

وَإِنَÙ'ا Ù,,ÙŽÙ...ُوسِعُونَ

wa-inna: lamuwasi'u:n

wa-inna: is and-we with an emphatic particle
ws' is to be big, expansive.
The transitive form is "to expand (something), to spread out, to make it big."
I would translate this something along the line of "It is we who spread it out before you."

In the next ayah, this is set against farashna:ha: (the colon marking a long vowel) which means we spread it (the world) out. Same concept,

The Qur'an is very poetical and very elliptical. While some modern commentators do interpret passages like your Muslim friend suggests, I think it is far better to read this one as a passage of awe at the wonders of our God. Compare the Bible, Job Ch. 38.

I think that it's very significant that the translations using the sense "expand" came well after the relatively recent cosmological discoveries of scientists.  In other words, if you want to see this as the Quran predicting discoveries which took place in the 20th century, be my guest, but don't expect me to follow you down that path.  These passages you've been showing us are vague enough that one can point to them if one wants, but they don't clearly show any scientific knowledge that's ahead of it's time.


**The Myth of Scientific Miracles in the Quran (http://www.islam-watch.org/MuminSalih/myth_of_scientific_miracles.htm)

to Recusant ..

As you said : my faith in Allah does not depend on  these ' revelations of scientific fact ' . but it increase my faith . day after day science proved that I am following the straight  path .

And These scientific facts for the unbelievers " atheists " . a method from multi methods of proving " scientific , logical , inference ,...... " to make them believe in Allah . and to be a strong witness against them if they insist to reject Allah  : ((124. "But whosoever turns away from My Message, verily for him is a life narrowed down, and We shall raise him up blind on the Day of Judgment." 125. He will say: "O my Lord! why hast Thou raised me up blind, while I had sight (before)?" 126. ((Allah)) will say: "Thus didst Thou, when Our Signs came unto thee, disregard them: so wilt thou, this day, be disregarded." 127. And thus do We recompense him who transgresses beyond bounds and believes not in the Signs of his Lord: and the Penalty of the Hereafter is far more grievous and more enduring. ))  

The holy Quran does not talk to Muslims only . this book speaks to " Jews , Christians , atheists , Buddhism , …. whatever was this  faith  " to guide them to the straight  path " one god no god but Allah " . in Quran : ((8. Almost bursting with fury: Every time a Group is cast therein, its Keepers will ask, "Did no Warner come to you?"9. They will say: "Yes indeed; a Warner did come to us, but we rejected him and said, '(Allah) never sent down any (Message): ye are nothing but an egregious delusion!'" 10. They will further say: "Had we but listened or used our intelligence, we should not (now) be among the Companions of the Blazing Fire!" 11. They will then confess their sins: but far will be (Forgiveness) from the Companions of the Blazing Fire! ))
 
One God , then one way to worship him , and our brains are capable to know the differences between right and wrong, therefore the holy Quran speaks to brains , in many many positions : ((in order that they may receive admonition )) or ((Will they not then understand? ))  

QuoteBecause there are other passages in the Quran which are clearly contrary to modern science. And the passages you have been quoting can be made to seem to agree with modern science, but in fact are vague enough that they can be understood in many different ways. The Quran is written in the language of poetry, and good poetry is made to communicate on a deeper level than dry prose such as that written by scientists. If you find that it strengthens your faith to give a scientific meaning to certain passages, then by all means do so. If, on the other hand, you expect me, or any non-believer to accept that the Quran contains valid 21st century science, you will have a difficult time, because none of the passages you have quoted so far seem to have anything of the sort. From what I've read, the science of the Quran is accurate by 7th century standards, but it does not contain any information which was not available at that time

This part of your comment , I will leave it for the experts , and the noble scientists who have knowledge more than me , they stand on the opposite side of you and your site after they knew the facts in holy Quran

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfzFYEOV ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfzFYEOVDgM&feature=related)

is Mohammad the unlettered  person able to write  this , please watch  :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fZIQwnO ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fZIQwnOMCM&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUUPYs0g ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUUPYs0gElU&feature=related)

QuoteIn fact, as recently as 1982, the respected sheikh Abdul Aziz Bin Baz issued a "fatwa that earth is flat and those Muslims who say otherwise contradict the Quranic teachings." **

Bin Baz was a great Muslim scholar , but not he is not my prophet . he was  mistaken when he said that  . but the great thing in the real believer as Bin Baz , when Muslims revealed the truth for him about earth he admitted  that he was wrong .
you and I and all people we did mistakes while [ speaking , or behaviors with others ]

and here you did a mistake: when you did not reveal the whole truth about Bin Baz's say .

QuoteIt is dust. "Dust" is what those who spend their lives studying it call it, simply because that's what it is. Heidelberg Dust Research Group

***************************************************
I do not like arguing , but since you mentioned the cosmic  Dust  :

 ( 1 ) - Space dust annoys astronomers just as much as the household variety when it interferes with their observations of distant stars. And yet space dust also poses one of the great mysteries of astronomy.

( 2 ) - “We not only do not know what the stuff is, but we do not know where it is made or how it gets into space,” said Donald York, the Horace B. Horton Professor in Astronomy & Astrophysics at the University of Chicago .

( 3 ) Cosmic dust consists of tiny particles of solid material floating around in the space between the stars. It is not the same as the dust you find in your house but more like smoke with small particles varying from collections of just a few molecules to grains of 0.1 mm in size.

( 4 ) Cosmic dust particles are very small. To understand their size and consistency, they may best be visually compared to cigar smoke -- perhaps icy cigar smoke .

( 5 ) they belch out huge quantities of 'smoke' known as cosmic dust.

So if want to add any thing about " dust " welcome , but I will not re-answer it again

***************************************************

Your comment a about the expanding universe as floating dust , sorry [ floating smoke ] ,

You did great job by mentioning the names of the translators :

1- There is a big difference between " the word of Allah " and "the word of human "  and these translations have been done by human , they are not inspiration . surely you will find  differences between translations .

2-the word of Allah is in Arabic word only , : ((3. A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in Arabic, for people who understand;- )) Surah 41.

3-translators produced a wonderful effort , just to communicate with other cultures and different tongs , the meanings translations but not the exact words  of the revolution .

4- the common thing between all Muslims , even if this Muslim not Arab , that Quran is written by Arabic language only .

5-The holy Quran comes  the top source of the Arabic language , it is not in the language of poetry, also not a prose , even the unbelievers during the time of prophet Mohammad did not know what to name the Holy Quran , at the same time no one of them were able to find one mistake or one contradiction in it . until they reached to the top level in hopeless , the holy Quran mentioned their reaction in several positions: ((5. "Nay," they say, "(these are) medleys of dream! - Nay, He forged it! - Nay, He is (but) a poet! Let him then bring us a Sign like the ones that were sent to (Prophets) of old!" ))

6-Mostly you are the person who communicate with me , I appreciate this .. which means you are a person have the ability to search and read , also to know the differences between the false and truth without a help from un-trusted sources … also I will not tell you to visit Islamic sources which glorify the holy Quran . Instead of this and that … give yourself 5 to 10 minutes per day to read a translation for holy Quran and then make your judgment .

7-I am paying the tax of public discussions . the fruits of it are less than private discussions . my only consolation : ((56. It is true thou wilt not be able to guide every one, whom thou lovest; but Allah guides those whom He will and He knows best those who receive guidance. ))

my regard

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages32.fotki.com%2Fv1045%2Fphotos%2F8%2F892548%2F6875161%2F1150035393040hi6-vi.jpg&hash=e2d7d827dd0c385b362d173ddbc1049fbf2a7480)

if it is the next life that matters, that you live this life to achieve... then why is there such a power struggle? why is there a need to harass people and spread the word, to prove your beliefs, jihad, and ect?
if its all about heaven, then why is there such a struggle for power here on earth between all 3 monotheists religions?

(( 32. And We have made The heavens as a canopy Well guarded: yet do they Turn away from the Signs Which these things (point to)! )) surah 21

Yes ,, they will write the  excuses  , also they will argue .. for one target [ to reject  Allah  ] who inspired these scientific signs for  seal of  prophets … and the story of the scientific facts at the holy Quran will continue [ of course after your permission , thanks ]

As you know the science discovered the sky is a shield  protecting the earth from  harmful rays , meteors .

Also the sky is analyzing the light that comes from space by  allowing  for  harmless and necessary  Rays as light , the useful Ultraviolet , Radio waves . [ I think the evolution theory   taught it , or by coincidence , who  knows ?.. but surely not Allah  !!!!!!!!! ]

in another position at the holy Quran speaks about the sky which returns ((11. By the Firmament which returns (in its round), )) Surah 86 .

1-   the first layer in the Atmosphere which is ( troposphere layer ) its mission is to return Steam to earth in image of rain . also retuning heat at night in image of CO2 .

2-   the fourth layer (Thermosphere ) returns Radio waves [ SW , MW ] .

3-   the fifth layer (Stratosphere ) which contains the Ozone layer mission is to  return and reflect the harmful Rays to space  .

thnaks

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages22.fotki.com%2Fv724%2Fphotos%2F8%2F892548%2F6116196%2F1236601064757-vi.gif&hash=db054eb1616ff0c01d9a47c83256c0041d0051e1)

some light plz has been issued warning 2

QuoteThis is a warning regarding the following post made by you: viewtopic.php?f=2&p=58720#p58720 (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=58720#p58720) .

this appears to be more preaching since you aren't responding to anyone....this is your last warning before a one week ban.

Quote from: "Whitney"some light plz has been issued warning 2

QuoteThis is a warning regarding the following post made by you: viewtopic.php?f=2&p=58720#p58720 (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=58720#p58720) .

this appears to be more preaching since you aren't responding to anyone....this is your last warning before a one week ban.

Always the same false excuses appears  ,: ((this appears to be more preaching since you aren't responding to anyone )) .
do you want me to answer silly comments ?
a person speaks about an egg while sciences and professors affirmed the scientific facts in the holy Quran . what a type of logic you have ?

a person sent  pictures , without a meaning …do you want me to answer him ?
if Mr. curiosityandthecat  is sending   these pictures as  signs  for Admin, then the signs of Allah are more clear also more  truth . " it will not help you at death time " .


I wrote many questions : is any one  was capable to answer ? surely no .
The only one is Recusant  , who was speaking with  powerful logic … but he is not here .
Also Mark not here .And about G-roll questions : we are different in the main principles and bases [ Allah ] , so do you want me to speak with her about religions . very strange !!!  

I said to you and them : prove logically your existence  ?
All of you know the answer . but they do not want to answer it , it will kill your  case
At forum : doctors , engineers , thinkers , literates , persons surely better than me in knowledge and science . but until now they hopeless to answer or to reject these scientific facts . so they keep sending these silly comments without any meaning , just to say to themselves : I have a neck

 ((18. Nay, We hurl the Truth against falsehood, and it knocks out its brain, and behold, falsehood doth perish! Ah! woe be to you for the (false) things ye ascribe (to Us).))

maybe  you think our discussion is a case of feud . this believer is my enemy  
or maybe we are paying the tax of the public discussion , [ in public human does not want to admit that he is wrong ]

((13. But when Our Signs came to them, that should have opened their eyes, they said: "This is sorcery manifest!" 14. And they rejected those Signs in iniquity and arrogance, though their souls were convinced thereof: so see what was the end of those who acted corruptly! ))


from where did prophet Mohammad get these information ?

QuoteAnd about G-roll questions : we are different in the main principles and bases [ Allah ] , so do you want me to speak with her about religions . very strange !!!

OH NO IVE LOST MY PENIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

ok, im going to be blunt and just say it. i personally dont have any problem with anything you post. i doubt anyone truely does so far. but there are rules and the admin (whitney) will let you know when you over step those rules. as she has done.
as for the silly comments and pictures, those pop up because no one takes your posts seriously. you are preaching to atheists mainly and i personally usually find your posts comical. at best.
believe what you want, thats fine and like you said we have different views and different opinions. so i reply to your preaching and i guess you get lost in that, or you choose not to reply because we are different which is fine as well. but i still choose to reply and others still choose to post pictures. take it how you want, but speaking for myself about post like the one above and

Quote((18. Nay, We hurl the Truth against falsehood, and it knocks out its brain, and behold, falsehood doth perish! Ah! woe be to you for the (false) things ye ascribe (to Us).))

WTF? i will make fun of this until my fingers fall of my hand.

Quote from: "some light plz"Always the same false excuses appears  ,: ((this appears to be more preaching since you aren't responding to anyone )) .
do you want me to answer silly comments ?
a person speaks about an egg while sciences and professors affirmed the scientific facts in the holy Quran . what a type of logic you have ?

Why not? You expect us to respond to silly acquisations and claims about scientific truth in a "Holy" Book. Which is sillier?

Quotea person sent  pictures , without a meaning …do you want me to answer him ?
if Mr. curiosityandthecat  is sending   these pictures as  signs  for Admin, then the signs of Allah are more clear also more  truth . " it will not help you at death time " .

If you could read lips (admittedly, not your fault, as it's very difficult for non-native English speakers to read English-speaking lips) you'd have no trouble figuring out the meaning of that picture. You are lending absolutely no productive contributions to this thread, this board or this forum. You dodge questions and take cover behind your god. It's childish and not tolerated here where we expect honest, intellectual discourse and an appreciation and loyalty to the truth, not the Truth, as there is no such thing.

QuoteI wrote many questions : is any one  was capable to answer ? surely no .
The only one is Recusant  , who was speaking with  powerful logic … but he is not here .
Also Mark not here .And about G-roll questions : we are different in the main principles and bases [ Allah ] , so do you want me to speak with her about religions . very strange !!!  

We have answered your questions dozens of times over before they were your questions. Do you honestly believe you're the first drive-by Allah-worshipper with an agenda and a bag of "scientific" facts to grace our board? Think again. Your arguments, your claims, your questions and your god are tired, old and have been laid to rest innumerable times before you even heard of this place.

QuoteI said to you and them : prove logically your existence  ?
All of you know the answer . but they do not want to answer it , it will kill your  case
At forum : doctors , engineers , thinkers , literates , persons surely better than me in knowledge and science . but until now they hopeless to answer or to reject these scientific facts . so they keep sending these silly comments without any meaning , just to say to themselves : I have a neck

Have you read your own posts?! If ever I've seen "silly comments without any meaning" it's in the "intellectual" and "scientific" content you have been slapping all over this board.

Quote((18. Nay, We hurl the Truth against falsehood, and it knocks out its brain, and behold, falsehood doth perish! Ah! woe be to you for the (false) things ye ascribe (to Us).))

This impresses no one and only hurts your cause.

Quotemaybe  you think our discussion is a case of feud . this believer is my enemy  
or maybe we are paying the tax of the public discussion , [ in public human does not want to admit that he is wrong ]

Show us any--any--proof that what you're saying is correct and we will gladly admit we are wrong. You cannot use one text that claims itself to be true as proof. If this were acceptable we'd all believe Harry Potter is a real boy. Without your holy book you have nothing in the way of proof. Everything you say is contingent on it. Everything.

Quote((13. But when Our Signs came to them, that should have opened their eyes, they said: "This is sorcery manifest!" 14. And they rejected those Signs in iniquity and arrogance, though their souls were convinced thereof: so see what was the end of those who acted corruptly! ))


from where did prophet Mohammad get these information ?

I rest my case.

I have provided some light plz with a one week time out to think about his conduct on HAF.  After that week if he chooses to post productively he will be welcome back, otherwise he'll be banned permanently.