Happy Atheist Forum

Since I am new to this forum, please allow me to explain my intentions with this post.
I have posed this question on another forum but wanted to expand it to get more thoughts on this.
First let me assure both atheist and the religious that I pose this question for no other reason than to seek the views and thoughts of an atheist when it comes to the beginning. I am not here to try and convert a Christian to an atheistic belief nor am I trying to prove the existence of a God to non-believers.

I also understand and accept that no one truly knows the answer to this question, I am merely seeking the thoughts and ideas of atheist regarding this topic.

The question is: IN YOUR OPINION, where did the universe come from? Specifically concerning the matter, where did it come from? The dirt, the sun, the stars, the planets, the air....etc.

I'm not seeking your thoughts on the purpose or reasoning behind existence, just the bare basics.... Where do you think the universe came from? The very beginning.

Thanking you in advance for allowing me to stop by.
JD

I don't know.

Sorry if that seems lazy but I really don't know and see no reason to guess; especially since that area of science is not something I have studied in nearly enough depth to have an educated opinion.

Quote from: "Whitney"I don't know.

Sorry if that seems lazy but I really don't know and see no reason to guess; especially since that area of science is not something I have studied in nearly enough depth to have an educated opinion.

 I have no clue either, none what so ever. I am really struggling to find even a plausible explanation, one that does not throw up a hundred more questions. I think you will find this answer repeated a lot on this forum.

Well I don't know either. Physicists are pursuing a few different avenues, none of which I know much about. One is that nothing appears to be unstable. Nothing has been made in experiments and observed to explode. Link to limited preview here (http://books.google.com/books?id=v5ewrNBAunUC&lpg=PP1&dq=lightness%20of%20being&pg=PT82#v=onepage&q=&f=false). It's a book written by a winner of the Nobel prize in physics. Or this (http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/12/the-physics-of-nothing/) news article is slightly more comprehensible.

This is turning out to be about the same as the other forum....:bananacolor:

If no one can come up with an answer, you may want to consider the possibility that there is no answer/if there is one, ever knowing it would be impossible.

Is that enough for you to expand on?

I know exactly how it happened.

First there was nothing. No sound, no light, no anything. But then the nothing shook. It shook angrily, violently, and hard. So hard that out of this violent chaos a howl of pain and torment erupted. From this horrifying sound stepped DANZIG. At first the darkness pleased him but he grew tired of it. So he created fire. He took this fire and made it into a ball. But he grew tired of this as well. So he covered the fire with ice! Ice from his heart! But the ice melted and turned into the seas and oceans. Just really hot versions of what they are now. And I don’t mean Megan Fox hot, I mean just temperature hot. And this pissed of DANZIG and his anger frightened the fire. So it lost all that it is and turned into the land, dirt, and mud as we know it. But he grew tired of this too eventually. So he created men in his image. So in the beginning everyone was a short muscular dude who liked metal and the blues. But no one and nothing was Megan Fox hot so he created the female. But eventually he grew bored with his new play things, and decided to torment them. And that is why since the dawn of man life has sucked. You can thank DANZIG for that.
I will be providing sound evidence for this theory later. I think its air tight and only a fool would disagree with me.  
 :headbang:  

Quote from: "SSY"If no one can come up with an answer, you may want to consider the possibility that there is no answer/if there is one, ever knowing it would be impossible.

Is that enough for you to expand on?

Yea...I've come to that conclusion before.

It involves my theory that it's possible that we can't know somethings.
That sounds simple but believe it or not there are some who believe everything can be explained. I operate that it's possible that my brain, our brain, may not be able to even fathom some things.

I am still holding out for ANY thoughts on this. Merely saying that "it has always existed" just doesn't compute to me but that may actually be the answer.

Thanks for reading the thread.....

Quote from: "JoeyDiamonds"I'm just interested in hearing any view that may be different from God created it.

An alternative theory is the idea of bubble universes.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaotic_Inflation_theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaotic_Inflation_theory)

It's an interesting idea but I am in no way prepared to defend it as true.

Quote from: "G-Roll"I know exactly how it happened.

First there was nothing. No sound, no light, no anything. But then the nothing shook. It shook angrily, violently, and hard. So hard that out of this violent chaos a howl of pain and torment erupted. From this horrifying sound stepped DANZIG. At first the darkness pleased him but he grew tired of it. So he created fire. He took this fire and made it into a ball. But he grew tired of this as well. So he covered the fire with ice! Ice from his heart! But the ice melted and turned into the seas and oceans. Just really hot versions of what they are now. And I don’t mean Megan Fox hot, I mean just temperature hot. And this pissed of DANZIG and his anger frightened the fire. So it lost all that it is and turned into the land, dirt, and mud as we know it. But he grew tired of this too eventually. So he created men in his image. So in the beginning everyone was a short muscular dude who liked metal and the blues. But no one and nothing was Megan Fox hot so he created the female. But eventually he grew bored with his new play things, and decided to torment them. And that is why since the dawn of man life has sucked. You can thank DANZIG for that.
I will be providing sound evidence for this theory later. I think its air tight and only a fool would disagree with me.  
 :headbang:  

Nice...very nice.
However... what could cause the nothing to shake? Wouldn't this require some other force to act on the nothing? What reaction would present DANZIG from the nothing? How could DANZIG create fire? Fire as we know it is rapid oxidation on an object. Fire can not exist without a medium. Fire is actually nothing...only a reaction of something, ergo we are back to square one. DANGIT !


As they say in the barber shop....NEXT?

Thanks for the humor though.... fun read and I love funny.
(Unless you were serious....in that case I mean no disrespect...please don't hurt me)

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "JoeyDiamonds"I'm just interested in hearing any view that may be different from God created it.

An alternative theory is the idea of bubble universes.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaotic_Inflation_theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaotic_Inflation_theory)

It's an interesting idea but I am in no way prepared to defend it as true.

This is actually a very interesting theory and I have to say, from what I can understand about it, IN THEORY it makes sense.
Because it's root hypothesis involves a vacuum, which is a space devoid of all matter, it makes sense. I kind of get lost as this theory gets deeper.
My only problem with this is the idea of a vacuum creating matter. The Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy implies that all the matter in the universe is fixed....it cannot be created or destroyed. So where did it come from?
I'm back at the beginning again....crap !  

Quote from: "JoeyDiamonds"The Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy implies that all the matter in the universe is fixed....it cannot be created or destroyed.

I think the bubble universe idea allows for the laws being different at the moment of creation since what is true in our universe may not be true in the parent universe.

I think that even quantum physics allows for many of our laws to break down as we go back to t=0 in our own universe....but I may not understand quantum that well either; well I KNOW I don't' understand it that well.

This is an idea that I am in no way prepared to defend.  

[youtube:34sh3t46]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo[/youtube:34sh3t46]

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "JoeyDiamonds"The Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy implies that all the matter in the universe is fixed....it cannot be created or destroyed.

I think the bubble universe idea allows for the laws being different at the moment of creation since what is true in our universe may not be true in the parent universe.

I think that even quantum physics allows for many of our laws to break down as we go back to t=0 in our own universe....but I may not understand quantum that well either; well I KNOW I don't' understand it that well.

You are correct.... on the simplest level I understand the theory behind the t=0 and the laws here not applying but that doesn't satisfy me totally.
It's almost the same as saying "It's always been".... like explaining that it can't be explained... which very well (and most likely) is the answer.

Thanks for your thoughts ..... very good stuff.

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "JoeyDiamonds"I'm just interested in hearing any view that may be different from God created it.

An alternative theory is the idea of bubble universes.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaotic_Inflation_theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaotic_Inflation_theory)

It's an interesting idea but I am in no way prepared to defend it as true.

That is certainly an interesting theory, but when it says " models our universe as one of many that grew as part of a multiverse ", surely it just moves the problem one step back? Where did the multiverse come from?

Having said that, theories based on the Vacuum moving over into a lower energy minimum are always fun, some nutter was talking about the LHC setting off such a reaction.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages107.fotki.com%2Fv546%2Fphotos%2F8%2F892548%2F6116196%2FBigBangfamilyguy-vi.gif&hash=a87d9545efe4049f506152ee4c1b5d806af01552)

I have a theory that might concievably be tested sometime in the next 100 years, provided we get our measurements accurate enough.

The short version involves what we mean when we say "something" and what we mean when we say "nothing". An example from set theory might help: In mathematics "nothing" is represented by the empty set {âˆ...}. While "something" is represented by a set. There are infinities of infinities of sets, beyond all comprehension. But at the root, in mathematics, at least, lies the natural numbers. Here's where the jig blows up though: How do you "define" a natural number? If we take a set of {1} to be representative of something, then what is that something? The funny thing is that mathematicians  have allready figured out the definition of the natural numbers: It goes like this:

First, there is absolutely nothing: {âˆ...}, the empty set.
Then, there is the set of the empty set: {âˆ...{âˆ...}}, which, mathematically, defines zero.
Then, there is the set of empty sets containing empty sets: {âˆ...{âˆ...{âˆ...}}}, which defines 1.
...And so on, ad infinitum.

I have a hunch, fueled by the fact that so far every mathematical conjecture ever proven has been shown to exist in a physical, real-world counterpart, that a system like this is the very fabric of reality. It could be that all the myriad forms and variety we find inthe universe amounts to nothing more than the shifting structures of astoundingly complicated sets, at the root of which we find the empty set, {âˆ...}, absolutely nothing.

I suspect this is the case, and if the opportunity arises to test this conjecture by taking accurate enough measurements, we may find the answer to the question, "why is there something, rather than nothing?". The answer being that there is nothing, and that there is something, because, quite simply, the distinction between the two would have been completely obliterated.

Given that, the answer to the question of how the universe was created might be that it never really started in the first place.  

Nya myoho renge kyo, my friends. (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg707.imageshack.us%2Fimg707%2F4130%2Fm7yt5l.gif&hash=391de2ab825dd64994b447404864587d1481f95f)