Happy Atheist Forum

I think that very few of us would actually go out and make a protest against the religious holidays.  But I'm curious to see if this is correct.  So...a poll!

I think the idea of making a protest against a positive religious celebration is ridiculous.  

I like the artistic aspects of Christmas, from the Yule influenced decorations to the Christian creches.  I also am interested and appreciative of the artistic and symbolic aspects of other cultural and religious celebrations.

I do sometimes think that the accuracy of the date for the celebration of Christ's birth is questionable and perhaps Christians might consider researching the event historically and placing the celebration closer to it's actual annual occurrence.  Also a small thought might be to use decor appropriate to the climate and flora of Israel (a helpful link on this.  http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/20 ... n%20Israel (http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2001/9/Flora%20and%20Fauna%20in%20Israel)).  But I'm certainly not going to stage a sit-in over these small details.

Not only yes but Hell yes, Christians should be challenged on every aspect of their beliefs and falsehoods.  Any and every Christian who stands in public and proclaims, God wants this or God wants that should be immediately challenged and forced to provide proof that God has actually spoken, and since God or Gods have not actually spoken they should be ridiculed and scorned for daring to speak in a Gods name and voice when such Gods have not spoken.  I have advocated standing on a street corner and burning or shredding bibles to show my disdain for this book.

I go for keeping the winter holiday - which is much older than Christianity - but slowly phasing the 'Christ' bit out.  Of course, this is already happening on a large scale.  I see more and more Happy Holidays cards every year.

Quote from: "Mark L Holland"Not only yes but Hell yes, Christians should be challenged on every aspect of their beliefs and falsehoods.  Any and every Christian who stands in public and proclaims, God wants this or God wants that should be immediately challenged and forced to provide proof that God has actually spoken, and since God or Gods have not actually spoken they should be ridiculed and scorned for daring to speak in a Gods name and voice when such Gods have not spoken.  I have advocated standing on a street corner and burning or shredding bibles to show my disdain for this book.

So...in essense...you are against freedom of religion?
Could you change your worldview to theist because passing readers are going to think you are an atheist and that makes us look bad.

Btw, why don't you tend to respond to critiques of your posts?  You sound like an anti-christian preacher and preaching is against forum rules.  I expect to see that you have engaged in thoughtful conversation with at least one person by the time I return on Sunday.

Christmas is one of the few relatively harmless things they do, why protest it?

I make fun of it because it's become such a gross display of consumerism but I certainly don't protest it.

Could there ever be a bigger PR fail than Atheists trying to stop christmas?

We'd be "the grinches who want to steal christmas"

Let em have this one, and enjoy the holiday yourself with your family and friends, however you see fit.

I vote no.
1. The christians stole it fair and square.
2. There is a happy holiday version full of santa clause and talking snowmen tv specials, gift giving, tree decorating, and other traditions that anyone and everyone can participate in.

... I'll let SpongeBob say it for me:
http://spongebob.nick.com/videos/play/d ... sic-video/ (http://spongebob.nick.com/videos/play/dont-be-a-jerk-its-christmas-music-video/)

Nope. Two weeks of holidays, plus I get money as gift. Why spoil that

Quote from: "joeactor"... I'll let SpongeBob say it for me:
http://spongebob.nick.com/videos/play/d ... sic-video/ (http://spongebob.nick.com/videos/play/dont-be-a-jerk-its-christmas-music-video/)

It's bad when nickelodeon is making jokes of dogs pissing on people.

To Whitney

  I am a card holding member of American Atheists but I am a Theist.  I believe that there is at least one God and there could easily be many Gods, I know of the existence of at least one God, so I cannot say that no other Gods exist for as far as I know there may be thousands.  I know for a fact that one God that I know of cannot and does not exist.  And that one God is the Universal God with one name, image or persona.  Which dozens of differing cults claim to be the only true followers of the one and only truly living God.

  There is no historical evidence whatsoever that a Universal God has ever existed nor will ever exist.  Now while I believe in the freedom to believe in anything or anyone that someone wishes to believe in.  That freedom ends the moment that one attempts to impose their beliefs onto others.  All Faiths and beliefs that are held to be personal and individual are valid.  All Faiths and beliefs that are held to be Universal and applicable to all others, are invalid beliefs which should be shut down immediately.

  As for me not responding to replies to my posts, this is simply because I have not noticed any yet, please remember I have only been posting here for say 3 days.  But since you have notified me that there are responses to my Posts I will go back through them and answer them.  In the few years that I have been going after Christian beliefs I have never once been accused of being timid.  Going after the Christian bible and doctrine is actually my hobby and past time entertainment.  

  I hope you have a safe trip to where ever you are going and a safe trip back.   Hopefully we can type when you get back on Sunday.

QuoteI am a card holding member of American Atheists but I am a Theist. I believe that there is at least one God and there could easily be many Gods, I know of the existence of at least one God, so I cannot say that no other Gods exist for as far as I know there may be thousands.

?huh?

To G-Roll

  Actually I do get that often.  The only difference between me and an Atheist is that I believe in God or Gods.  In all other things I agree with Atheists, no religious belief should have their beliefs enforced by secular law, nor should any religious be supported directly or indirectly by the federal, state or local Governments.  As far as I care all religious beliefs including my own are valid only when  they are held as being personal and individual.  All beliefs including mine are invalid when it is attempted to enforce those beliefs through secular laws, sanctions or any other form of Government endorsement.

I protest behaviors , not beliefs. I may be offended by some of the beliefs, but being offended by something doesn't give me the right to stop it, I should actually be harmed in order to respond.

To Will

  I am somewhat of an enigma.  I was brought into the Faith by a God, it was done in a matter of minutes.  I was given absolute proof that a Loving, Caring and Compassionate God does exist.  Now prior to this I believed in God but despised him because I had nothing to go on other then the Christians name, image and persona of God that they follow and the Christian God is a Vicious, Murderous piece of solid waste material that has ever been imagined.  But my family history and personal history shows ongoing protection from what our family consider our Guardian Angels.

  So I became a Christian to find answers to what had happened to me.  Since Christianity is about the only mainstream religion in America.  As I was working my way through Christianity it became an ongoing contradiction.  I could find nothing in it that corresponded to the emotions an feelings that I felt when I was brought into the faith.  As I read and studied the bible I could find nothing that corresponded to the Loving, caring and compassion that I had felt when being brought into the faith.

  The further I got into the bible the more contradictions and inconsistencies I found, these later became the foundation that I wrote my book on.  The only redeeming factor that I found in the bible was the public teachings of Jesus before the Jews.  Jesus was a man of God a teacher of God and was inspired by God.  But Jesus and his teachings cannot be found in the Christian religion as it is practiced.  I published my book while still a Christian I tried to say that following Jesus and his public teachings was a good thing but that following the bible was wrong.

   But one cannot be a Christian unless one accepts the authority of the priesthood to speak with Gods authority and voice.  So I simply gave up Christianity, Jesus and the whole cock and bull authority of the Christian church.  I despise the Christian religion for several reasons.  One is that they claim that there is but one God and they are the only true followers of the only true and living God.  Basically they paint all Gods with the same tar cover brush in saying that all Gods must be as their God since no other Gods exist.  My God that I follow is not the vile filled, bile vomiting murderous monster as their God is.  While I know little about the God that brought me into the faith I know beyond a doubt he is not the God of the Christians.

  The second thing that I despise about the Christian religion is that they took a true man of God, a true teacher of God a true follower of God and turned him into God/Jesus one of the greatest evils this world has ever seen and turned him into this blood thirsty, hate filled monstrosity that by all rights should never have turned into a religion let alone into the primary religion of the United States.  It turns my stomach to think that this religion has committed atrocities and blood lettings that make Hitler and Stalin look like choir boys and blamed all of this evil on God and Jesus the man.

  There is nothing existing on the earth today that turns my stomach more then a righteous Christian claiming to speak with Gods authority and in Gods voice.  They should be thankful that I do not have a Harry Potter Magic Wand for if I did I would do things that would make Stalin puke.  But on a lighter note I am actually and nice guy who actually tries to live by the public teachings of Jesus.

  Happy Solstice to you.

Why bother? Christmas is obviously not about religion anymore, it's about capitalism.

To RB24

  The problem with Christian Theists is that if they are unchallenged, then they will continue pushing their agenda because there is no opposition to their agenda.  As far as I am concerned they should be challenged on everything that they hold to be important.
 

Quote from: "Mark L Holland"As far as I am concerned they should be challenged on everything that they hold to be important.

I'm pretty sure that Christians and Atheists have some shared values that we both hold to be important....so, there is no reason to challenge something just because Christians like it.

I personally really like having a time of year where we all agree to get together as a family, eat yummy things, exchange a few thoughtful gifts, and are reminded to appreciate our fellow man....the secular version of Christmas is hardly religious and actually has stronger ties to pagan celebrations than anything.

If i protested against Christmas in the UK i'd be treated as a loony by atheists and christians alike. For millions of people, the tradition of Christmas is entirely disassociated with religion. I see no point in trying to abolish this.

Quote from: "karadan"If i protested against Christmas in the UK i'd be treated as a loony by atheists and christians alike. For millions of people, the tradition of Christmas is entirely disassociated with religion. I see no point in trying to abolish this.

Yes, that's exactly my point, Although I do agree with Mark L Holland on that Christian and religious beliefs need to be questioned and debated and challenged, but I think you would have to go after something that's completely associated with that single religion and not a holiday that's celebrated by millions who do not belief in the religious side of the holiday. So I really don't see the problem in an Atheist saying Merry Christmas or celebrating Christmas, I've even seen a video of Dawkins himself saying Merry Christmas to an interviewer.

To Whitney

  If the holiday is a federal, state or locally recognized holiday then it needs to be secular so long as the word Christ is in the holiday name there is a problem.  If the Federal Government recognized the Winter Solstice Holiday then I would have no problems with it.  While federal law prohibits prayer to be said at government functions that contain specific deities names such as Jesus, Allah or Jehovah.

  California does permit generalized prayers to be said.  As long as the prayer identifies only the name “God“.  So that other Theists of other beliefs would not be offended the prayer may be said.  The problem with Christians is that they believe Jesus is God so while the reference to God is not offensive to other beliefs, Christians automatically translate the name God into Jesus, and consider it not to be an affirmation of God but an affirmation of Jesus who is the only true and living God.

  So long as “Christ” is a part of Christmas, Christians will consider it an affirmation of God/Jesus’ reality as the only true and living God.  Are you suggesting that the only reason families get together is because of (Christ)mas) or would families still gather and celebrate and feast just as easily to affirm the Winter Solstice Holidays.   If you give Christians an inch they will take a mile and then hang you with the excess rope.
 

I agree that the Christ bit is slowly being phased out, which is a definite plus, seeing as taxes were collected in the spring not winter, and the story of Jesus' birth is a complete ripoff of every preceding story about the birth of a demigod or savior. If these ignoramuses could stop thumping their bibles for one second they'd hear the sounds of paganism in their beloved holiday. They'd hear christmas trees being chopped, songs being sung, and the deafening roar of american consumerism. They'd see the happiness in children's eyes because of the newest nerf gun or videogame rather than a politically radical jew being born. If they could enjoy the simplicity of it, the tradition and the happiness of celebrating the solstice and Yule and the basic togetherness of family and friends they would be much closer to a higher truth than obsessing over a baby. That's my take.

Noooooo! I love Christmas, why would anyone want to protest it?
Who cares what we call it? If we called it Santamas, the celebrations would still be the same.
Most Christians have finally become aware of the pagan beginnings of this and other holidays anyway. There are religious denominations who refuse to celebrate most holidays and even their own birthdays because of the pagan influences. The Jehovah's Witnesses for example. These Christian groups do their own protesting against Christmas. Let 'em.  I'm not protesting a holiday that lets me have the day off work, eat myself silly and  give and get presents.

To Zyva

  Does the name make the holiday or does the holiday make the day.  I see no reason why the Federal, State and local Governments cannot name the holiday as a secular holiday which still gives you your day off with pay.  I do not dispute the Winter Solstice Season Holiday.  I simply dispute the name that Christians have given it.

 

If you're going to go that far Mark, you may as well protest the use of the word "holiday" while you're at it. (Holy+day) :bananacolor:

Quote from: "Mark L Holland"To Zyva

 Does the name make the holiday or does the holiday make the day.  I see no reason why the Federal, State and local Governments cannot name the holiday as a secular holiday which still gives you your day off with pay.  I do not dispute the Winter Solstice Season Holiday.  I simply dispute the name that Christians have given it.

 

Most people don't care about the name. Come to Europe and see for yourself. I think you are protesting a pointless point.

Quote from: "rb24"Why bother? Christmas is obviously not about religion anymore, it's about capitalism.

^ What he said.

Christmas is a Western tradition now. Before my parents divorced we were a secular family and still celebrated Christmas. Like Whitney says, it's about family, food and shiny things. I know only a handful of people who still take the religious aspect of it seriously and many people from a variety of faiths who celebrate it openly because of what it represents culturally. I see no point in boycotting it. I think it has been completely assimilated into our society to take on new meanings, which can be interpreted religiously or not.

To Zyva

  Nah I simply have a thing for Christians, holidays in general I do not mind.  Thanksgiving should probably be renamed (The day of infamy) as the American Indians consider it, but I can even live with thanksgiving.  As for Halloween that is a children’s holiday that zealots attack every year.  It does not matter that it’s origins were Christian because Christians have turned against it.  If Christians treated Christmas the same as they treat Halloween I would have no problem with (Christ)mas) regardless of it’s name.

To kelltrill

  And do the Christians still protest the use of XMAS, do they protest stores that use the XMAS signs or require their employees to say happy holidays instead of Mary (Christ)mas).  What Christmas is to the Europeans is for Europe to decide.   As much as Christmas has turned secular it is not as secular as Halloween has become secular.  Maybe in another fifty years or so the religious aspects might finally become dead and buried or the Christian zealots who are becoming stronger may force a resurgence of the religious aspects of Christmas.

  A lot of people breathed a sigh of relief when Bush the Son left office and we Got Obama.  I voted for Obama but the simple fact is he will be a one term president, and he was the only hope we had to undo the damage done to the court system that Bush the Son has done.  Who ever the Republicans put up in 2012 he or she will either be evangelical, fundamentalist or someone who bows to their authority.

  Bush the Son before leaving office did everything he could to lock Obama onto a path that Obama would be hard put to leave.  With the supreme court loaded with zealots, and many of the appellate courts loaded with zealots we are two steps away from being a Theocracy.  With a Republican/Christian in office things can only change for the worse.  So yea, there is no aspect to small or to insignificant in regards to Christianity that makes it not worth the effort to challenge it.

  And as the effectiveness of the Republican/Christian Tea Parties have shown they do not lack numbers, and are formidable in strength.  To brush off the Christian religion as if they do not pose a significant threat to the freedom of Americans is to me a bit silly.
 

Sorry Mark, I forgot to consider that this debate was somewhat relative because I never considered it would get political. I'm from South Africa and as such I only profess to speak from a South African perspective. I can't vouch for American dynamics.

I firmly believe that the world would be a better place without religion. Without the dark ages of religious oppression in our history we would be a thousand years more technologically advanced. But since we do not live in this ideal world (and I solidly believe that religion will either take millenia to die out or will only be completely eradicated with the rest of mankind) we have to factor in what we have to deal with.

By ardently protesting secularised religious activities we will simply be placing more emphasis on their importance as just that: religious activities. This will result in Christians being more inclined to reclaim Christmas and revert it back into a highly Christian holiday. We will find more churchgoers, prayers-by-candlelight, travelling worship groups and the lot, simply because if a non-Christian says that something about Christianity is wrong, then that must make it more right. If we just leave it alone it will slowly become a more traditional, secular holiday (which it is already on the way to becoming, in SA at least), which will be enjoyed by more non-Christians all over the country, simply because of it's place in our culture rather than in religious doctrine.

To Kelltrill

  In America we are facing a resurgence of Christian zealots, power and authority.  If we were talking of pre Bush the Sons America I might agree with you that Christian evangelicalism and fundamentalism was dying out and it might have died under it’s own corruption sooner or later.  But even Atheists back then had no united front to challenge Christian authority.

  As a result when Bush the Son revitalized the evangelical and fundamentalist movements in America and remade our judicial system into a religious justice system by stacking the supreme, appellate and appeals courts with Christian zealots there was no real apposition to even slow it down let alone any real attempt to check the growth of evangelicalism or fundamentalism.

  Under the best of conditions it would take up to a decade to correct the damage done by Bush the Son, and that would only be possible if Obama held office for two terms, and replaced or removed Bush the Sons appointee’s.  That is highly unlikely to happen, the Republican/Christian war machine is hitting it’s stride and is very effective in their attacks on Obama and the democratic party, and the missteps of Obama and the democratic party are not helping.

  Bush the Son worried me even before he became president, and after his election I wrote letters and sent information to gay/lesbian/transgender and Atheist groups warning of what was to come and what would happen if Bush the Son was reelected.  If Obama loses and a puppet Republican/Christian zealot becomes president he/she will continue building upon the damage that Bush the Son inflicted upon us.  When that finally happens it will be the first time in my life where I might think living in another country might be best.

  The Atheist, Abortion rights, Gay/Lesbian/Transgender and any other group that may be threatened by a resurgence of the evangelical and fundamentalist movement need to combine their resources and mount a united front against it.  To me the evangelical and fundamentalist resurgence is as great a threat to the United States as an outbreak of the Bird flu or any other lethal disease that is allowed to spread unchecked.

  The Christian religion must be challenged, the authority and power of the evangelical and fundamentalist zealots must be eliminated.  Because if it is not the world needs to become very nervous about what damage a Christian zealot controlled and dominated America can do.  We have had a sample of it from Bush the Son but how much more worse can it become.  I truly do not want to find out and would prefer challenging them now while I can then when they add challenging their authority to the patriot act and make it illegal.
 

Quote from: "kelltrill"By ardently protesting secularised religious activities we will simply be placing more emphasis on their importance as just that: religious activities.

^This is exactly why they are suddenly complaining about Happy Holidays.  It's because there has also been a recent trend of anti-theists launching various 'attacks' on Christian holiday displays.  Thankfully most of those are appropriate, launching lawsuits against religious displays on public property.  However, the Christians who get upset about that (which is really just a small yet loud group of fundamentalists) don't understand that wanting to uphold the constitution is not a "War on Christmas".  People who want to actively protest Christmas as a whole are the ones who are stirring the pot and actually making the Christians even more frantic and more likely to want to remove secularism from the holiday they stole from pagans anyway.  Like religion, there is no sense to it.

Christmas and all other holidays that have theistic origins have been naturally becoming secularized over the years....we don't have to do anything to further that; capitalism is doing the job for us.

To Whitney

  The Christian wars started with Bush the Son, God knows why but that man was able to energize and boost the Evangelical and Fundamentalist movement like nothing seen since the Apostles created God/Jesus while drinking a keg of wine.  The Evangelical and Fundamentalist resurgence had nothing to do with lawsuits or Michael Newdow or any other Atheist who challenged them in the courts.  Most of the Atheist challenges were in response to the Evangelical and Fundamentalist resurgence.

  Playing nice with the Christian religion is like playing nice with a rattle snake,  sure it may not bite on the first petting or second petting of it but sooner or later the damn thing is going to bit.  Sitting back and saying please Mr. Christian enjoy your religious holidays that we will give lip service to if you only learn how to play nice.  That works almost as well as making a deal with the proverbial devil.

  Not challenging the trinket holidays of the Christian Zealots is not going to lessen their belief that they are Gods chosen who have divine authority and power to dominate all others.  If your concern is you do not want to push the weekend Christian into mobilizing then that is ridicules.  When the Evangelicals and Fundamentalists wish to mobilize the weekend warriors they will do it.  And if the Evangelicals and Fundamentalist wish to mobilize the votes for something they will rally the faithful to their banner.

  If the weekend Christians only have what the zealots give them to go on then they are going to rally with the zealots.  Prop 8 in California proved this easily if black Baptist Christian Americans could be so easily persuaded to persecute and discriminate against another group because there was no one to challenge their authority to do so then not challenging (Christ)mas) or Thanks Giving or any of the other religious holidays is not going to change a damn thing.

  If someone challenged them on the foundations of their beliefs being the teachings of Jesus.  If someone challenged them saying that prop 8 went against Jesus’ teachings, that judging another was a sin, that taking negative actions against others was a sin, that in attempting to do these things they are doing the work of Satan.  If the information of the Zealots was being openly challenged and ridiculed and scorned, then prop 8 would not have passed.

  The weekend Christians are not fanatics or zealots on their own they would not have proposed or tried to pass prop 8, but when all that they have is the zealots for God, Jesus and Country to go on.  And believe that there is no consequences for their actions they are going to go with the zealots.

  When you have an enemy you attack that enemy on all fronts, you do not give a safe haven to that enemy.  You do not allow that enemy respite, you do not allow them the slightest verification for their beliefs you pound them into the ground until there is nothing left to pound.  You cannot give Christians even the slightest belief that you recognize their authority.  You nail them to the cross on every front, until they realize that if they keep the laws, commandments and beliefs of their faith within their faiths they will not know peace.
 

Mark, being that you really didn't do anything but restate your opinion I have nothing more to say.  We apparently just disagree on how best to deal with fundamentalists.

If they are going to act like idiots no matter what we do I'd rather we not have bad PR from throwing hissy fits over holidays that people can choose not to practice.  Our 'fight' should be saved for real problems; like when they want to put a nativity scene on the state capital lawn or a kid can't go to school without being preached to buy their ultra fundie teacher....not over if Christmas exists.

To Whitney

  And if you wait until they press your button it may be to late.  You believe that the Christian threat may be contained when it becames a threat.  I believe that the Christian Threat when it has reached the point of being a threat it is to late to worry about it's threat.  You will simply be the man that did not speak out when they came for someone else.  And then did not speak out when they came for someone else nor did you speak out with the next group they came for nor the next group.  And when they came for you there was no one who could speak out for you.  Happy life to you.

  Christians have the ability of making Hitler look like a Catholic Chior boy compared to them.  Have happy thoughts your imaginary beliefs just might be real.
 

Quote from: "Mark L Holland"And if you wait until they press your button it may be to late.

Well, of course you wouldn't care about atheist PR...you're not an atheist.  You can support anti-christian tactics all you want and when public perception of atheists takes a few steps back you aren't affected.

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "Mark L Holland"And if you wait until they press your button it may be to late.

Well, of course you wouldn't care about atheist PR...you're not an atheist.  You can support anti-christian tactics all you want and when public perception of atheists takes a few steps back you aren't affected.

To Whitney

  This weekend give me a street corner that I can stand on.  Give me the signs that says bible burning, the bible lies christianity lies, all false bibles burned for free.

  I will stand on that corner burning those bibles or shredding those bibles claiming that Jesus is one of the greatest evils ever to set foot on this earth and clearly tell everyone that I am a theist who dispises jesus and Christianity.  And I will not mention the word Atheist at all.  Unlike you I have no qualms about dying for my cause and belief.  I could give a damn about being shot down in the street by a rabide Christian Dog, because all it would do is prove my point.  It is thursday set my up with a street corner in my area and give me a call.

  I could care less if Atheists have the balls to take on Christianity or not, All I care about is someone giving me the opportunity to challenge their false ass beliefs.  Trust me I will take full responcibility you need not crawl out of your hole to face the day light.  You can hide safelhy from the Christian responce.  
 

To Whitney

  Gee no Email addess to contact you on so let me help you out.  My address is xxxx.  You all ready have my name.  Let me know what street corner have have set up for me.  You should get a pair of balls they are nice to have if you were a man that is.
 

Edit by Will: I'm not comfortable with people publishing their personal information on this website. While this is the Happy Atheist forum, it's also a part of the internet and there are some very unfriendly people out there who won't care what your beliefs are, just that you posted on an atheist forum.

Quote from: "Mark L Holland"To Whitney

  Gee no Email addess to contact you on so let me help you out.  My address is xxxx.  You all ready have my name.  Let me know what street corner have have set up for me.  You should get a pair of balls they are nice to have if you were a man that is.
 

you just got yourself a warning for that.  Not only was it out of line but it was a sexist remark.

Almost everyone here knows I am a female and almost everyone here knows how to contact me.  However, thank you for letting me realize that my posted email is one I don't check anymore (however it still works so I know you didn't look that hard).

To Witney

  I appolgize for my tone and attitude in my last post you are an Athiest and deserve the respect that that intails.  While I mean everything that I said in that post I do not mean to denegrate you personally.  Give me that street corner and I will back up everything that I have said.  And if you are a man I am sure that you do have a set of balls, sorry for that comment.
 

thanks for not reading my post.

To Whitney

  I read your post after posting my apology.  I would not rewrite my post after I already started it.  Now that I do know that you are a women I will take that into consideration the next time that I wish to make an ass of myself.  You have my address and name.  Set me up with a street corner and signs and I will burn their bibles as I have said.  Sorry for the personal insults.
 

To Whitney

  And please keep in mind that you insulted me first by saying that I was nothing more then an instigator trying to cause trouble between Atheists and Theists and that I would hide in my little hole once the sparks started to fly.

Re: Should Atheists actively protest Christmas?
 by Whitney » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:13 am
Mark L Holland wrote:
 And if you wait until they press your button it may be to late.
Well, of course you wouldn't care about atheist PR...you're not an atheist. You can support anti-christian tactics all you want and when public perception of atheists takes a few steps back you aren't affected.

  As I said I will happily burn their unholy books on any street corner prepared for me.  I do not need the Atheists to intercede for my little war with Christianity, all I need is the support to carry my war to them.  like I said sorry, but I stand by every thing else I said, prepare a corner for me and I will burn their bibles till the sun goes down.
 

Mark, if you have a problem with a moderator or even the administrator, please feel free to PM someone on the staff about it. If you look under the username of some of the members, it provides our staff title, in case you're wondering who's on the staff.

Quote from: "Mark L Holland"like I said sorry, but I stand by every thing else I said, prepare a corner for me and I will burn their bibles till the sun goes down.
 

my position is there is no reason to do that....are you even reading what I post? (Rhetorical question)

Just stop replying on this topic till you've calmed down.

To Will

  I thank you, for your advise but personally except for personal flare ups like just happened with whitney, I do not have problems with anyone other then christians.  Like I said I did not know that Whitney was a women but the fact that she is an Atheist intitles her to respect that I did not show in my posts.  I would apologize to all who were offended by my posts.  My hatred extends to Christianity and no one else.  My disapointment with Atheists would simply be that they do not see the inherent threat of Evangelical and fundamentalists Christians, and this frustrates me at times.  

  So once again thank you for your advice, I have no one to blame but myself for losing my cool.
 

To Whitney

  Take Care and may your dreams be happy and fulfilling.
 

To Will

  Thank you

Being a Atheist I am saying that Atheists should not protest Christmas and similar religious holidays as I don't see any reason to protest.

Especially in February, eh?

Why should we protest Christmas? It's not like it has anything to do with Christianity!!  

Seriously though, I don't think we should protest against religious holidays, even the ones that DO have a legitimate tie to religious beliefs. Unless tax dollars are used to support it - now that I WOULD protest against (the use of tax dollars, not the holiday itself).

No, I disagree completely. The atheist should not protest christmas. It is obviously wrong to spoil other people's fun. It is divisive and immoral. It achieves nothing except a bad vibe between people. The atmosphere just changes when the atheist messes things up for everyone else, and it shouldn't be done, not at all. You can express your views in privacy, that's ok, but it is offensive to poison people's minds with divisive ideas. Just wrong.

Quote from: "FredMore"No, I disagree completely. The theist should not celebrate christmas. It is obviously wrong to spoil other people's quiet. It is divisive and immoral. It achieves nothing except a bad vibe between people. The atmosphere just changes when the theist messes things up for everyone else, and it shouldn't be done, not at all. You can express your views in privacy, that's ok, but it is offensive to poison people's minds with divisive ideas. Just wrong.

Fixed!

Quote from: "elliebean"

Quote from: "FredMore"No, I disagree completely. The theist should not celebrate christmas. It is obviously wrong to spoil other people's quiet. It is divisive and immoral. It achieves nothing except a bad vibe between people. The atmosphere just changes when the theist messes things up for everyone else, and it shouldn't be done, not at all. You can express your views in privacy, that's ok, but it is offensive to poison people's minds with divisive ideas. Just wrong.

Fixed!

Thank you, I didn't want to take the time to point out the irony or the fact that fred didn't read any post and ignored the poll he voted on.

Quote from: "chrisssteeven"Being a Atheist I am saying that Atheists should not protest Christmas and similar religious holidays as I don't see any reason to protest.

Sometimes I see reasons, like the will to disrupt, but this is simply out of jealousy and a need to belong. It's understandable but very destructive, no wonder most atheists aren't taken seriously, which is a shame as some of them are quite smart.

Quote from: "FredMore"Sometimes I see reasons, like the will to disrupt, but this is simply out of jealousy and a need to belong.

Not unlike what motivates many theists to troll atheist forums, I imagine.

QuoteIt's understandable but very destructive, no wonder most atheists aren't taken seriously, which is a shame as some of them are quite smart.

Again with the irony. Tsk.

Quote from: "FredMore"

Quote from: "chrisssteeven"Being a Atheist I am saying that Atheists should not protest Christmas and similar religious holidays as I don't see any reason to protest.

Sometimes I see reasons, like the will to disrupt, but this is simply out of jealousy and a need to belong. It's understandable but very destructive, no wonder most atheists aren't taken seriously, which is a shame as some of them are quite smart.

hahahaha!!!! yes i am jealous of your stolen pagan holiday that celebrates commercialism.

the will to disrupt... disrupt... hmm, i picture myself tackling carolers. kicking the heads off snowmen. yes disruption of xmas!!
actually if i really wanted to disrupt xmas i would remove all the sale signs in department stores.

lmao fred is funny.  If he is serious then he is hilarious.  I blame the school system for that much misinformation in one person.