Happy Atheist Forum

I'm alcoholic. I know there are rules against posting while drunk. Sorry, I do this on a regular basis. But I bet you all can't always tell. I haven't drunk less than 10 beers in a day for over a year. I don't feel normal during the day because I need alcohol to feel normal. So as I said, I'm alcoholic. I'm on 10 beers right now. The trouble is most of the available "treatments" (is it even an illness?) seem useless to me. They require that I accept a higher power. The last time I went into a chemical dependency recovery program, my therapist insisted that I choose a "higher power". I said that I didn't believe in a higher power. She said that it didn't matter, I could choose anything as a higher power. Her example was my shoes. My shoes! What the fuck! This all seems to be based on the perceived benefits of the religious AA program. I want help, not belief in my shoes having a higher power. Any pointers? Is there a particular kind of psychologist that deals with chemical dependency?

I know i'm going to sound like a drug dealer but try weed, it's tons better for you then alcohol or some AA meeting. I persuaded my Dad, a man who has been an alcoholic for 30 years to try it and he used weed for about six months, he pretty much replaced alcohol with weed and after those six months or so had passed he stopped smoking which has no withdrawal effects. Worked like a charm.

AIP, first, I'm sorry about your having to deal with this; I'm sure it is very difficult.  The no posting drunk rule is for those that can't control themselves while in that state, I've posted while drinking in the past as well...the rule was actually specifically added due to that maes....., forgot the rest of the sn, fellow who seemed to only post when he was so drunk he couldn't control himself.

I would suggest researching if withdrawals from stopping drinking are dangerous and also typically how long it takes your system get past the withdrawls.  Assuming it is safe, take that block of time off from work and just do whatever you have to do to keep your mind off the withdrawls (or whatever you have to do to deal with them if they are bad)...just make sure whatever you use is of lesser harm than the alcohol and that it is non-addictive (no need to replace one addiction with another).  Just remember that the withdrawals will pass and then you will feel better about yourself.

The AA higher power stuff is bullshit...the only point of the higher power idea is to give people a reason to pull themselves together and use their own willpower to stop.  So, just cut out the higher power and get straight to the working on your willpower.

heh, South park.

AlP, have you tried tapering off gradually?  You said you need 10 drinks to feel normal.  Try 9 drinks per day for a week.  Then try 8 per day the following week...etc.  No higher power needed.  Everything you need to accomplish your goals is already inside of you.  (Does that sound new-agey and weird?)

Whatever you decide, I wish you well.

I've done this a few times before =). My psychology book says (I think - don't have it handy) the withdrawal is due to prolonged use of alcohol changing the balance of dopamine in your brain. With time, the dopamine is only at the normal level when you consume sufficient alcohol. If you don't drink, it's out of whack and you feel really shitty. It feels kind of like the day after you only got 2 hours sleep. Also, it's next to impossible to get to sleep, which makes you feel doubly worse =(.

There is an aspect of willpower to it of course. But it is partly physiological and psychological as well. Our bodies keep track of various things like whether we're hungry and drive us to keep them in balance (at the set point). The body of an alcoholic "thinks" the dopamine level is out of balance when they're sober and drives them to "correct" it. So it's kind of like willing yourself not to eat when you're really hungry and there's plenty of food available.

Yeah maybe I'll try the cutting back idea. If nobody minds I'll post my daily intake on this thread. It might help keep me honest.

Good luck sir...

Quote from: "AlP"Yeah maybe I'll try the cutting back idea. If nobody minds I'll post my daily intake on this thread. It might help keep me honest.

Sounds like a great idea.  I did that with cigs and it has made just stopping a lot easier...but I am having trouble falling asleep.  It also helps that I now have a friend that will give me a really hard time if she ever sees me smoking again....she threw her purse at me the other night when I had one cig when were were out drinking.

Quote from: "AlP"I'm alcoholic. I know there are rules against posting while drunk. Sorry, I do this on a regular basis. But I bet you all can't always tell. I haven't drunk less than 10 beers in a day for over a year. I don't feel normal during the day because I need alcohol to feel normal. So as I said, I'm alcoholic. I'm on 10 beers right now. The trouble is most of the available "treatments" (is it even an illness?) seem useless to me. They require that I accept a higher power. The last time I went into a chemical dependency recovery program, my therapist insisted that I choose a "higher power". I said that I didn't believe in a higher power. She said that it didn't matter, I could choose anything as a higher power. Her example was my shoes. My shoes! What the fuck! This all seems to be based on the perceived benefits of the religious AA program. I want help, not belief in my shoes having a higher power. Any pointers? Is there a particular kind of psychologist that deals with chemical dependency?

Get the hell out of AA. They will not help you. Current alcoholics and recovering alcoholics can be good for support, but you need a doctor. Alcoholism is a medical issue requiring medical treatment.

Yes there are plenty of psychologists who specialize in dependency, but you need a regular medical doctor. This is not a simple issue; non-alcoholics and even non-medical experts don't understand just what an intricate relationship alcoholics have with alcohol.

Withdrawal, as a general rule of thumb, typically involves the opposite symptoms of the drug. It's not a very well-known fact, but alcohol withdrawal is one of the only withdrawals that can actually kill you. It needs to be performed under controlled conditions.

Don't approach this as a fault issue or weakness issue. Approach it like you have fallen into a 10' hole. You can either gather people around the hole who berate you ("Why did you fall in the hole? You should have looked where you were going!"), gather people who support you ("Climb out! You can do it!") or call a professional with a ladder who does this for a living and won't judge you. They'll just get you out.

Call your doctor or a general practitioner tomorrow and tell them your situation. Tell them exactly how much alcohol you drink every day. He will be able to give you real medical expertise so you can start building a normal life.

Thanks Loffler. I've been in this situation a few times before and called my doctor those times. A prescription for Librium would be helpful. But my experiences with therapy make me reluctant. And, at least with my health insurance, I can't see a psychiatrist without first going through a therapist. If the gradual reduction idea fails, I'll do it though. I see no alternative. I know the gradual reduction, or at least the institution of quotas, is viewed as a symptom of alcoholism. But there's no way I'm going back into therapy without trying every other option. Also, reducing my intake gradually avoids the possibility of death from withdrawal as far as I know.

There is no easy answer to alcoholism. It clings to you tightly and doesn't want to let go.

11 beers tonight

As an atheist, you realize that there is no higher-power.

You also realize there is no magic pill for your problems. You're on your own, and if you fail to solve your problems, then you fail. They won't go away if you ignore them. You might even die. But you still didn't solve them.

And that's the point. You either solve your problems or you don't. If you're an atheist, then there is nothing there to lean on, except maybe friends and family.

But hey, that's good enough, right? I'm rooting for you.

Oh, and if it were me, I'd go cold turkey. None of this, "gradual" bs. If I'm going to succeed, then that is the ultimate test.  

Quote from: "Renegnicat"Oh, and if it were me, I'd go cold turkey. None of this, "gradual" bs. If I'm going to succeed, then that is the ultimate test.  

It was stated above that alcohol withdrawal can kill you.  Cold turkey in AlP's case might not be best.  Good luck AlP were all cheering you on.  If you get frustrated just talk with us about it ^_^.  We will support you even though we are no where near you.

Quote from: "LoneMateria"

Quote from: "Renegnicat"Oh, and if it were me, I'd go cold turkey. None of this, "gradual" bs. If I'm going to succeed, then that is the ultimate test.  

It was stated above that alcohol withdrawal can kill you.  Cold turkey in AlP's case might not be best.  Good luck AlP were all cheering you on.  If you get frustrated just talk with us about it ^_^.  We will support you even though we are no where near you.

For anyone that is truly addicted and doesn't just prefer having something over not having it; cold turkey is going to be very hard even if it weren't dangerous.  There is nothing wrong with knowing your limits and taking steps to success rather than one giant leap.  The main thing is to plan a path, follow it, and know how to get back on the path if you hit a bump.

I drank 11 again. This is actually an improvement for Fridays. Usually on weekends I drink at least 20. Good night all!

Ah. I was unaware of the side effects of alcohol withdrawal. I guess cold turkey's a bust then.

Major withdrawal nearly killed an uncle of mine, had to be done in hospital, he was doped up on painkillers for the better part of a week before he came down. A taper is definitely the way to go.

For the record, that uncle is now a total waste of skin, I no longer give him the time of day, you really don't want to turn your life into the infinite shithole he made for himself.

Good luck with your drinking problem, you are the only one who can ultimately solve it.

My cousin is currently in hospital "drying herself out". Her kidneys are failing according to my mom. She has a 9 year old child. I don't want to be their believe me.

19

Quote from: "AlP"19

How do you keep count after 12?

19? Dear god man, do you want to get better or not?

Yes that was more than I intended.

Quote from: "Renegnicat"19? Dear god man, do you want to get better or not?

Do you know how little sense this question makes? You think he lined up his 19 bottles Leaving Las Vegas style and shotgunned them in 5 minutes?

He has to drink an unhealthy amount just to stay normal. By the time he's "normal" he's already drunk and uninhibited, then it's one after another.

The problem with trying to figure out addiction in a forum or even discussion setting is that a discussion takes a few minutes. It's easy not to drink right this second. But then there's the next second. And the second after that. And seconds add up to minutes, and to hours, and days. It's easy to have strong will for a second. But several days? Weeks?

I think anyone who lacks washboard abs, their dream job, the dream relationship, six-figure income, and an Academy Award can understand the trials of imperfect willpower.

I think it's a good thing to criticize people when they drink 19 beers and they're trying to give up. I clearly failed. Renegnicat helped me.

Quote from: "AlP"I think it's a good thing to criticize people when they drink 19 beers and they're trying to give up. I clearly failed. Renegnicat helped me.

If it's helping, then allow me:

STOP DRINKING 19 BEERS. I won't believe you want to get better until you go to the doctor.

Thanks. Psychological conditioning in action =). 6 tonight. I'll start graphing this soon and we can see if there's a downward trend.

Quote from: "AlP"6 tonight.

Much better  If you aren't feeling any major withdrawl symptoms (which apparently can be dangerous) your goal for this week is to not exceed that amount per night.

Quote from: "Whitney"Much better  If you aren't feeling any major withdrawl symptoms (which apparently can be dangerous) your goal for this week is to not exceed that amount per night.

Thanks Whitney. Lets see if I get any sleep tonight... I think I'll be okay =).

Woke up a bit early but still got 6 hours sleep which is fine. Also no hangover. Weird.

Quote from: "AlP"Woke up a bit early but still got 6 hours sleep which is fine. Also no hangover. Weird.

Ya, very strange

Maybe make a note of how nice it is to not have a hangover every morning and stick it on your fridge so you'll see it when thinking of grabbing a drink?

Keep it up, keep it up. You can do it!

Good luck man. If you can keep the count this week to under 12 for every day, you'll be off to an awesome start

I second the notion of graphing, graphs make everything better.

Thanks everyone =).

When you feel a hangover, drink some water. A large part of a hangover is dehydration.

In fact, if you remember, drink the water before sleep. That is even more effective.

Ya, water does help.

Actually, alternating one glass of water for every glass of beer might help with quitting.  It would fill your stomach up so that you physically couldn't have as many beers.  Plus, this will keep your hands busy in case you are are also physically feel weird without something in your hand.

Quote from: "Loffler"When you feel a hangover, drink some water. A large part of a hangover is dehydration.

In fact, if you remember, drink the water before sleep. That is even more effective.

Quote from: "Whitney"Ya, water does help.

Actually, alternating one glass of water for every glass of beer might help with quitting.  It would fill your stomach up so that you physically couldn't have as many beers.  Plus, this will keep your hands busy in case you are are also physically feel weird without something in your hand.

Yeah I think the water might help. At least later on when I'm just looking for something to fill in. The hangovers don't bother me so much anymore. They're normal now. It's the feeling I get around 5.30pm when I'd just about kill for a beer that really sucks =).

I drank 6. I figured one more would be okay. I wound up thinking I drank 8 but actually it was 9. I opened 10 and realized I was way over. I just poured 10 down the sink. So its 9 tonight. Good night all.

Well, the first step to recovery is admitting to an addiction. Well done for that Aip. That is a very brave and difficult thing to do.

My apologies, wall of text coming:

My housemate, Ed, is a massive alcoholic. We've tried to help him on a few occasions but he does not want to be helped. He's actually drinking himself to death. I've never seen anything like it. Last night he had an 8-pack of Stella (pint cans) and a bottle of wine. So, that is 8 pints of 5.2% beer and a bottle of 14% wine. It is those kinds of volumes every night, without fail. In the morning he has the shakes real bad. He is 27 but looks like he is in his 40's. He is remarkably candid about it though. He is obviously very depressed. He was once engaged but his fiancé dumped him a few months before the wedding. This seemed to have a cascade effect on his life. He lost his job and his house in London. It was a couple of months after that that he moved into my house. He wasn't as bad then as he is now. It's been a steady progression into alcoholic despair.

It kind of came to a head about 2 months ago when some friends and I had a poker game at my house. Ed joined the game although I had my reservations as he was already rather tanked up. Within an hour he was slurring really badly and had his arrogant hat on. The problem with Ed is this - absolutely lovely guy when sober but an opinionated, arrogant, stubborn dick when drunk. I was very embarrassed. The evening ended with him downing a couple of large mouthfuls of JD and passing out where he sat. When he started to dribble on himself, my mates and I decided to carry him up to his room. Unfortunately he relieved himself during the process. I was not happy at having to mop urine off my kitchen floor and even unhappier that I had his urine on me after having to drag him up two flights of stairs. His room was an eye-opener. The floor was practically knee-deep in empty beer cans.  :(

One of me friends doing medicine claims that Doctors occasionally go out on the lash, the come home and hook themselves up to IV's of Saline, then wake up with nary a headache the next morning, allegedly due to the combination of water and electrolytes. I could really have done with that in my first year of uni.

Also karadan, that sounds pretty crappy, are you all on the tenancy agreement? If he is on there it will make eviction a lot more difficult. The uncle I referred to above had to be removed from the house by police, I hope you don't end up having to go this root.

Hey Al, pouring them down the sink is probably a good idea. You should actually start the night like that: buy a 12 pack, determine how man you're drinking that night (8 or whatever your target number is), pour four down the drain while you're still sober. You hit 8,  you're out. I had a drinking problem, too. What got me to kick it was the simple fact that I would lose my wife if I didn't stop drinking so much. I kept myself busy, got an 8-5 job (it's hard to go to work and sit in front of a computer for 9 hours if you've been up drinking until 3am the night before), started taking classes again. I was just too busy to drink all the time. Now, if I have 4 beers I'm pretty well buzzed. Don't get me wrong; I can still put back a twelve pack if I really put my mind to it. I just don't do it anymore.

Support, Al. That's what you need more than graphs or plans. If we can be that, we will do our best.

I second Curio's advice. I wonder if it's possible to get dopamine pills or something like that? Nah. Probably a bad idea.

Quote from: "Renegnicat"I second Curio's advice.

Thanks. roflol Can you imagine what they'd go for on the black market?!?  :bananacolor:

Quote from: "karadan"Well, the first step to recovery is admitting to an addiction. Well done for that Aip. That is a very brave and difficult thing to do.

Aargh! AA dogma! Nice thought though =).

If your roommate has health insurance, is unfamiliar with critical thinking and is susceptible to believing in higher powers, you could drive him to a hospital with a chemical dependency recovery program and sit with him in reception until he sees a therapist. I've seen that done a lot (spent a lot of time in CDRP waiting rooms). My objection to CDRP isn't that it is ineffective. I object to the dogma and AA religious nonsense. It sounds like he might be better off with it. And he won't know first time round.

They would treat his condition as an emergency. A next day appointment is likely. They might even hospitalize him at that level of drinking. I'm certain they would do blood tests to see if there's liver damage. But don't tell him that =).

Also, he'd see a psychiatrist who could prescribe drugs to protect him (in his case) from withdrawal and also anti-depressants.

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Hey Al, pouring them down the sink is probably a good idea. You should actually start the night like that: buy a 12 pack, determine how man you're drinking that night (8 or whatever your target number is), pour four down the drain while you're still sober. You hit 8, you're out. I had a drinking problem, too. What got me to kick it was the simple fact that I would lose my wife if I didn't stop drinking so much. I kept myself busy, got an 8-5 job (it's hard to go to work and sit in front of a computer for 9 hours if you've been up drinking until 3am the night before), started taking classes again. I was just too busy to drink all the time. Now, if I have 4 beers I'm pretty well buzzed. Don't get me wrong; I can still put back a twelve pack if I really put my mind to it. I just don't do it anymore.

You're back! Hey. I live next to a liquor store unfortunately.

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Support, Al. That's what you need more than graphs or plans. If we can be that, we will do our best.

I appreciate that. My roommates are awesome too. But it's much easier to honest about drinking with people on the Internet.

Quote from: "Renegnicat"I second Curio's advice. I wonder if it's possible to get dopamine pills or something like that? Nah. Probably a bad idea.

You can get drugs to settle the dopamine levels back to normal. They actually work really well. I just don't want to go that route just yet because of therapy side of the treatment. It's not secular and it really pisses me off.

Quote from: "SSY"Also karadan, that sounds pretty crappy, are you all on the tenancy agreement? If he is on there it will make eviction a lot more difficult. The uncle I referred to above had to be removed from the house by police, I hope you don't end up having to go this root.

No, we are on a private tenancy agreement. I get on with the landlady so all i'd need to do is tell her the level of the issue and she'd evict Ed immediately. I'd prefer it didn't come to that, though. He's actually a really nice guy and i feel bad for him. However, i'm not responsible for him so if his alcoholism carries on impeding on mine and the rest of my housemates' lives, i'll have no option but to take action. It is worth pointing out that he is not violent in the slightest. Just incredibly opinionated and arrogant whilst drunk.

Quote from: "AlP"

Quote from: "Renegnicat"I second Curio's advice. I wonder if it's possible to get dopamine pills or something like that? Nah. Probably a bad idea.

You can get drugs to settle the dopamine levels back to normal. They actually work really well. I just don't want to go that route just yet because of therapy side of the treatment. It's not secular and it really pisses me off.

Do you get pains in your liver or kidneys? I've heard that alcoholics can get painful spasms after a heavy night. Is there any truth to that?

By the way, thanks for your earlier advice. I'll speak to Ed and see what he says. I've only known him the six months he's lived in the house so it should really be his family taking him to a clinic. That might actually be part of his depression... His family don't seem to give a rats ass about him.

Quote from: "AlP"You're back! Hey. I live next to a liquor store unfortunately.

Yep, back. :)

I didn't post how much I drank last night. It was 9. I counted this morning.

Quote from: "karadan"

Quote from: "AlP"You can get drugs to settle the dopamine levels back to normal. They actually work really well. I just don't want to go that route just yet because of therapy side of the treatment. It's not secular and it really pisses me off.

Do you get pains in your liver or kidneys? I've heard that alcoholics can get painful spasms after a heavy night. Is there any truth to that?

By the way, thanks for your earlier advice. I'll speak to Ed and see what he says. I've only known him the six months he's lived in the house so it should really be his family taking him to a clinic. That might actually be part of his depression... His family don't seem to give a rats ass about him. :) So schedule your drinking so that you'll run out after they stop selling. Would that work? Or, just walk next door and talk to the owner. Ask him/her to not sell to you after a certain time. They'll comply, I'd imagine. Or have your roommates hide your ID. I'd hope the liquor store people still ID even if they know you're a regular. (It's the law, after all.)

The scheduling idea is a good one. I think they close at 12. I've never been IDed in a liquor store! I am 32 though. I actually live within easy walking distance of 7 liquor stores. I don't know if I could convince all of them. But if I stayed at work until late then they would only be open for so long...

Quote from: "AlP"The scheduling idea is a good one. I think they close at 12. I've never been IDed in a liquor store! I am 32 though. I actually live within easy walking distance of 7 liquor stores. I don't know if I could convince all of them. But if I stayed at work until late then they would only be open for so long...

Really? I get ID'd all the time and I certainly don't look under 21.

Anyway, try it out, let us know how it works.

Quote from: "karadan"Do you get pains in your liver or kidneys? I've heard that alcoholics can get painful spasms after a heavy night. Is there any truth to that?

By the way, thanks for your earlier advice. I'll speak to Ed and see what he says. I've only known him the six months he's lived in the house so it should really be his family taking him to a clinic. That might actually be part of his depression... His family don't seem to give a rats ass about him.

I've been thinking about this some. Two different directions...

First of all I think you're in the UK? In which case, the treatment might be different to the US and there are no issues with health insurance. Also, I suspect the treatment might be secular, if that is even an issue. I don't know if AA or the equivalent works the same way.

Other direction... I think neither you nor your roommate's family has an obligation to help him; therefore neither has a greater obligation. I'm liberal. I think he is free to harm himself. Maybe his family doesn't care. However, from my liberal standpoint, though you are not obliged to help him, you are well within your rights to try and change him, specifically for example because you live with him and he is a nuisance on social occasions. I think helping him in an active way might have value for you. It could be very inconvenient, for example if you end up having to transport him to hospital once every couple of weeks (does he have it together enough to do that for himself?) But to balance that, in my opinion, there might be value in helping him. There is a kind of satisfaction in lifting someone who has reached such a low. It is value of of a very high quality. I would look at this as a potential investment in human capital, the sort that doesn't come around very often.

I personally despise the idea of trying to get a person who has reached such a low evicted. It solves the small problem but not the big one, though to be consistent with my previous statements, from my standpoint you would be within your rights to do so.

Interestingly to me, my existentialist ideas have little to say on this matter, except perhaps in creating new value.

Yep. I'm in the UK. Any treatment would be on the NHS and it would be secular. I asked Ed last night if he'd think about getting treatment and he flat out refused. He just does not want to be treated.

If I had a potentially fatal addiction, my family would help me regardless of any protestations I might have. In that respect I guess I'm lucky. I see what you mean about obligations but I feel that the ties a family have to each other outweigh that of the ties I have with a housemate I've only known for six months. So far we've attempted to change Ed by being really upfront (showing him the video of us lifting him 2 flights of stairs to his room) and honest with how stuff like that makes the rest of us feel. He apologised but made no effort to kerb his drinking. It pisses me off and makes me pity him in equal measure.

We had to take him to hospital the day after the poker night. At some point in the night when everyone was asleep he must have fallen down the stairs when trying to go to the loo. He'd split his chin very badly which required seven stitches.

I'd like to believe I'm compassionate and feel the rest of my housemates and I have tried rather hard to help Ed but how do you help someone who simply does not want to be helped?

As far as I'm concerned, he's starting to become a real liability. If he refuses help then the only thing which will change is the scale of the issue. What might be an occasional occurrence now could turn into a weekly ordeal for the rest of us. I'm not willing to compromise that much

You could suggest that he goes to a doctor about being depressed. They will surely ask him how much he drinks because that's a common cause of depression. I doubt a regular GP will prescribe anti-depressants to a person drinking that much. I think he'll get a referral =).

Another idea. Call NHS Direct (http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk) and ask them for advice on how to deal with him. This only works for people in the UK =).

Thanks for the advice. I'll make some enquiries tonight.

How was last night for you, by the way? Did you drink less than nine?

Not less. 9. Whitney said my target for the week should be 6. Jeez I've got some not drinking to do =).

Quote from: "AlP"Not less. 9. Whitney said my target for the week should be 6. Jeez I've got some not drinking to do =).

maybe when you want to drink why don't you write a program you put on the back burner.  As a programmer I know we all have them.  Keep yourself busy ^_^

That's a good idea. I want to do some principal component analysis of stock prices. I've always wondered if the top principal components actually match the sectors the market is typically broken down into like technology, financials, etc.

Programming is an excellent way to get your head off of the drinking. When you're feeling the urge to drink, it's always nice to put your head into something that requires a lot of concentration.

Here's a tip: When you feel the urge to drink, hold nonsense conversations with yourself. This works great with me and my addictions. I'll be like this:

So, ohoho! Monsieur, the citty litter was too much for you, eh? Kitty LITTER? I shall demand reparation for such insult! You can not repair me, monsieur, and my accent is not french. Well, I can run up your electrical bill. No! Anything but that! Then take this potato chip, and EAT IT.

I usually end up having so much fun making these strange conversations that I forget all about my cravings.  

I'm the opposite...the last thing I need to do if I want do do something I enjoy but is bad for me is something stressful and/or requires lots of concentration.  Mindless things like Peggle, Sims and stupid facebook games are better.

Quote from: "Renegnicat"Programming is an excellent way to get your head off of the drinking. When you're feeling the urge to drink, it's always nice to put your head into something that requires a lot of concentration.

Here's a tip: When you feel the urge to drink, hold nonsense conversations with yourself. This works great with me and my addictions. I'll be like this:

So, ohoho! Monsieur, the citty litter was too much for you, eh? Kitty LITTER? I shall demand reparation for such insult! You can not repair me, monsieur, and my accent is not french. Well, I can run up your electrical bill. No! Anything but that! Then take this potato chip, and EAT IT.

I usually end up having so much fun making these strange conversations that I forget all about my cravings.  

There is so much that is screwed up in here it frightens me... no offense.  I never thought someone would suggest talking to themselves as a means to fight an addiction.

Anyway yes programming can be stressful but it should take your mind off of everything else you are doing.  It is also rewarding because you get instant gratification when you make a function work or think of a different way to do something that actually works.  And if you get really into whatever you are making several hours can pass in the blink of an eye... well at least for me.

Right now my side project is making a bejeweled type game (only much much better) in Java (which I dislike ... though I really like a very similar language to it called C#).  Time goes by fast when I work on it.

Quote from: "LoneMateria"Anyway yes programming can be stressful but it should take your mind off of everything else you are doing.  It is also rewarding because you get instant gratification when you make a function work or think of a different way to do something that actually works.  And if you get really into whatever you are making several hours can pass in the blink of an eye... well at least for me.

Right now my side project is making a bejeweled type game (only much much better) in Java (which I dislike ... though I really like a very similar language to it called C#).  Time goes by fast when I work on it.

I don't find programming stressful when I do it at home. Doing it for a living that can make it stressful, like deadlines and death marches and such like. At home I get completely lost in the flow of it. It's like another world =).

Programming would turn me to drink.

/. Run_script
FORTRAN STOP

 :brick:  

Well FORTRAN will certainly drive anyone to drink =). Has there really been no progress in languages for numerical work? Jeez.

Yeah i'd probably consider suicide before working in FORTRAN ... and COBOL lol.

Talking to yourself isn't really that bad of a thing, LoneMateria. It's just that there's a stigma attached to it, with people assuming that the person talking to himself thinks he's actually talking to another person. I talk to myself all the time, but I'm perfectly aware that I'm not actually talking to another person.

I guess it's because I'm a pretty good actor, that I can invent personalities to fight with each other and entertain me. But that doesn't mean I think the personalities are real. They are about as real as reading dialogue in a book you wrote yourself. Or a play.

Also, I love programming, but I almost never do it. I really should get back into it, it's just that I have to put in the dues needed to become a good programmer, and I'm afraid of failure. Given my list of mental disorders and learning disabilities, I've been at a disadvantage from the start, and it's very difficult for me to really become good at something.

I should start programming again. I've always wanted to code an algorithm in C that would evaluate a Go Board Position in under 50 lines of code. Yikes!  

Is there a programming thread here?  We probably should stay on topic.  I noticed that AlP hasn't posted what he has been drinking lately.

Also Renegnicat if you are afraid to fail you will never succeed.  Besides programming wise you should expect failure, how often do you create a program that runs perfectly the first time you compile it?

It was 9. Didn't hit 6 but 9 is better than 11. 11 = bad hangover. 9 = no hangover.

Quote from: "AlP"It was 9. Didn't hit 6 but 9 is better than 11. 11 = bad hangover. 9 = no hangover.

9 is acceptable considering your previous numbers.  Would writing Hangover=Bad on your fridge help keep the numbers in this 6-9 range till you are able to cut back again?

Quote from: "AlP"Well FORTRAN will certainly drive anyone to drink =). Has there really been no progress in languages for numerical work? Jeez.

Now people are moving over to object orientated, but the professor I am doing my work with uses FORTRAN, so I use it. Some of the scripts she gave me are in FORTRAN 70, ie, all in capitals. It seems like the program is shouting at me. Not to mention all the other stupid shit, like the mandatory six spaces at the start of every line, which is left over from the punch card days, drives me to distraction .Another fun on is if I dare to not declare a variable, and it ends up initializing at the end of the integer scale (2^31 or something insane, nothing screws up a calculation like a do loop starting at i=2 147 483 648).

AIP, more power to ya'.  

Any chance that you've got some friendly neighbors/friends/family who don't do much drinking that you can hang out with several time a week to help keep you occupied?  

Earlier in the thread you mentioned that you weren't too keen on the idea of "coming out" to your real life friends about this situation but maybe its time.  At least if there is any chance that they would be willing to help keep you in check instead of going off and getting pissy with you.

hehe, if you were in the military I'd imagine you'd know about antabuse.  Nasty stuff, causes seizures if you have both antabuse and alcohol in your system (including the smell of alcohol).  Its squarely in the "negative reinforcement" category and should require constant supervision when used (I've got a story if you want to hear it sometime.)

That sounds rather Clockwork Orange to me. . . .

Quote from: "Jolly Sapper"AIP, more power to ya'.  

Any chance that you've got some friendly neighbors/friends/family who don't do much drinking that you can hang out with several time a week to help keep you occupied?  

Earlier in the thread you mentioned that you weren't too keen on the idea of "coming out" to your real life friends about this situation but maybe its time.  At least if there is any chance that they would be willing to help keep you in check instead of going off and getting pissy with you.

hehe, if you were in the military I'd imagine you'd know about antabuse.  Nasty stuff, causes seizures if you have both antabuse and alcohol in your system (including the smell of alcohol).  Its squarely in the "negative reinforcement" category and should require constant supervision when used (I've got a story if you want to hear it sometime.)

My friends all know. And most of them aren't heavy drinkers. Except on weekends!

Quote from: "Jolly Sapper"AIP, more power to ya'.  

Any chance that you've got some friendly neighbors/friends/family who don't do much drinking that you can hang out with several time a week to help keep you occupied?  

Earlier in the thread you mentioned that you weren't too keen on the idea of "coming out" to your real life friends about this situation but maybe its time.  At least if there is any chance that they would be willing to help keep you in check instead of going off and getting pissy with you.

hehe, if you were in the military I'd imagine you'd know about antabuse.  Nasty stuff, causes seizures if you have both antabuse and alcohol in your system (including the smell of alcohol).  Its squarely in the "negative reinforcement" category and should require constant supervision when used (I've got a story if you want to hear it sometime.)

I've never heard of antabuse before. I just did a google on it. Crikey, they use that in the military? I'd like to hear your story. That stuff sounds awful!

How you holding up, A|P? Just checking in to see that you're doing all right, is all.

Quote from: "Renegnicat"How you holding up, A|P? Just checking in to see that you're doing all right, is all.

Yeah all is well. I kept it under control over the weekend. No 19 beers this time. Kept it at 9 or under. And I'm starting to get a hangover at 9. I think that might mean my tolerance is going down. So now I'm motivated to get to 8.

In less good news (for me) my roommate's girlfriend got H1N1 flu. I had some exposure but luckily not as much as I usually would hanging out with them over the weekend. This weekend I was particularly antisocial and spent most of my time programming in my room. I don't know if I have it yet. Probably will tomorrow or the next.

Did some research. H1N1 was widely publicized but I don't think it is more unpleasant than other kinds of flu. There was an attempt to prevent its spread and the media went a little crazy as they sometimes do.

Quote from: "AlP"

Quote from: "Renegnicat"How you holding up, A|P? Just checking in to see that you're doing all right, is all.

Yeah all is well. I kept it under control over the weekend. No 19 beers this time. Kept it at 9 or under. And I'm starting to get a hangover at 9. I think that might mean my tolerance is going down. So now I'm motivated to get to 8.

Great!  Keep up the good work.

QuoteDid some research. H1N1 was widely publicized but I don't think it is more unpleasant than other kinds of flu. There was an attempt to prevent its spread and the media went a little crazy as they sometimes do.

I think the problem isn't so much the symptoms but that it is aggressive in how easily it can be spread and that it's easy to get H1N1 in addition to another strain of flu at the same time (one of the kids at my husband's school had this happen and was out for 3 weeks).  It apparently doesn't spread that easily to healthy adults, my husband has probably been exposed multiple times now through the snotty nosed kids/teens at his school and if he did get the flu he only had it bad for 2-3 days (we didn't find the need for him to go to the doc for testing since antivirals are expensive and only decrease symptoms by a day) and then the symptoms went away as quickly as they started.

AIP, keep up the good fight.  Glad to hear you're still in good spirits.

Quote from: "karadan"I've never heard of antabuse before. I just did a google on it. Crikey, they use that in the military? I'd like to hear your story. That stuff sounds awful!

Alrighty.  Now I'm not a drinker so this isn't a personal story.

When I was stationed in Germany one of my fellow squad mates was having problems with alcohol (and I *think* he was having problems with his marriage which didn't make things any better).  It got to the point that he was given a direct order to attend some kind of alcoholism rehab program.  I don't know what the specifics were but eventually it got to the point where the program prescribed Antabuse.  Which meant that he was *technically* ordered to take the drugs as per the prescription.

Well, he decided that he didn't want to take the pills and didn't really give a crap what the Army did to him at some point.  He stopped taking the pills for a few days and then went out drinking.  Where ever he went, it was close enough that he was recognized by some Sergeants who knew his situation.  

So, Monday rolls around and he knows he's been busted out.  Company commander tells him to come to his office with his bottle of Antabuse after mopping the company area.  The soldier then tried to cover his ass by taking some of the pills to make it look like he had been following the prescription.  

There was just enough alcohol in his system by the time the Antabuse kicked in, that he went into seizures while trying to mop a staircase.  You can imagine what happens when a seizing human being flops halfway down a flight of stairs.  Fortunately he didn't kill himself but it pretty much insured he was going to get the "dishonorable" stamp on his discharge papers.  He went AWOL shortly after being cleared from the hospital and I never heard anything about him after that.

I like the going gradual idea. Probably the best, and safest, thing to do. Keep up the good work.  

Quote from: "Dan from According to Jim"You know the best part? I did it without Jesus!

I drank 9 again. 9 seems to be a hard number to beat. I just bought 6 more but I realized on the way home that I wasn't going to drink another one. These days it'll give me a hangover for at least a couple of hours tomorrow. Going to bed now.

Thanks everyone.

Have you tried over the counter anti hangover meds? I cant think of any off hand or recommend any because I haven’t tried any myself. but Id imagine it would help with the hang over once the buzz fades.
And shit if you tried any let me know if they are any good or more than just aspirin.

Best of luck.

The hangovers are helpful. They encourage me not to drink =). I tried RU21 once. I didn't notice any difference the next morning. Anecdotal.