Happy Atheist Forum

QuoteProfessors at Trinity College in Connecticut analyzed the numbers of Americans unaffiliated to any religion. While the number of male nonbelievers was rocketing, the overall totals were slowed by women hitching themselves to the anchor of faith: “Gender difference is a brake on the growth of the No Religion population,” says the study, which found that 19 percent of men were no longer denizens of a religious America, while only 12 percent of women live outside the faithful fold. In the past, one could say that women tended the hearth, and men participated in the marketplace. But today?

{snip}

Some researchers hypothesize that women are hardwired to believe because of evolutionary imperatives. Belief in Godâ€"or the Mount Olympus ensemble cast, or a phalanx of wood spirits, and so onâ€"has long been connected with tribal ritual, and formed the center of communities. Women relied on these communities for the survival of their children, while men were off spearing buffalo, pillaging neighboring settlementsâ€"or whatever the caveman business trip furnished. The relationship between belonging and belief is an ancient one. It may have resulted in the development of certain alleles connected to a sense of God, or at least a commitment to religion.

Full Text:  http://www.doublex.com/section/life/why ... elieve-god (http://www.doublex.com/section/life/why-do-more-women-men-still-believe-god)

Your point about tribalism suggests a related point: The possible correlation between the overall reduction of tribalism both for survival and comfort and how that might, in part, anyway, relate to the growth of atheism.

Not to attempt to paint tribalism as a complete anachronism -- far from it!  But, as prosperity grows, it does seem to be a pattern that people are less inclined to huddle in protective groups and branch out on their own.  Thus, you have Islam making big headway in third world countries while Christianity gasps for survival in Europe and is increasingly short of breath in the USA too.

You can see a similar pattern within Christianity itself: Sects start up as fanatical and dogmatic, and their adherents are almost always people from the poorer classes who are attracted by that sense of belonging to something greater than themselves -- whom they view as being weak and helpless.  Then, as time goes on, if the people prosper, the sect begins to migrate to the "mainstream", where only lip service remains to those dogmatic ideas.

My own family experience does a good job of illustrating this.  When I was a child, my family belonged to a denomination called "Evangelical United Brethren" (EUB), which was itself an amalgam of two earlier sects, "Evangelical" and "United Brethren", both of whom were, in their beginnings, very hell-fire-and-brimstone.  But time and prosperity had worn the sharp edges off both groups, and by the time I came along they could no longer figure out what significant doctrinal differences there were, so they merged, largely out of practical considerations.

The edges kept coming off, and maybe 20 or so years later,  the EUB church and the Methodists could no longer figure out what their differences were either, so they merged and became "United Methodist".  My smattering understanding of the Methodist church is that it also underwent a similar metamorphosis toward blandness in reaching the point that brought it to the merger.

Another way of looking at what I am calling "blandness" would be as a retreat from the visceral appeal of the comfort-giving message of salvation from imaginary doom and a stronger emphasis toward real-world issues like poverty and injustice.  These are issues that appeal to people who are no longer struggling for their own survival and now have the means and the desire to reach out to others.  They are also much more intellectual issues, since they require people to imagine problems others are having vis-a-vis being absorbed by their own experiences.

One might hope that this process I have noted would automatically work itself to a logical conclusion -- the complete dropping of the original trappings involving invisible people in the sky and below the earth -- and churches would eventually become just places for people to congregate and socialize and work together for the betterment of humanity.  I cherish that hope, but, quite frankly, I have my doubts.

The problem lies in that core belief in nonsense.  As long as it's there, it represents an unlocked door waiting to be opened by the next clever charlatan who realizes the potential it has to help him (or her) perpetrate whatever harmful endeavor is being concocted.  That was precisely the issue that Rachel, the protagonist in my story Get Real faced and tried to shine a light on -- almost resulting in her kidnapping and (presumably) torture.

A useful question for us to ask ourselves in this regard is why atheists (along with their bedfellows like "agnostics", "humanists", etc.) don't step up and offer an alternative to churches in providing this kind of thing.  If such an institution were available, it would give people who no longer had an interest in the invisible people someplace to go to get those other needs met.

As women gain equality more, able to get a better education, able to get into better jobs (and I mean worldwide), the numbers will level out.

BTW, atheist women are the best.  

Anecdote ahoy, but a lot of the girls I know/knew you go/went to church did so largely in a social context, they enjoyed meeting up with all their friends. While I never pursued a serious argument with them, I really doubt any of them had given the fundamental questions of theistic belief any considered thought.

Daddy complex.

I'm a female Atheist, and proud of it.  I was raised in the Bible Belt, and was taught to believe in a god by those around me.  As I grew older, I questioned the idea of a god.  I figured why was there a god, when proof of evolution is overwhelming.  As a feminist, I also rejected the idea of a male deity, and patriarchal religion in general.  Patriarchal religion, has been used as a tool to oppress women for centuries.

I do agree with others on this thread, who think that more women believe in god, because they are
still more powerless than men.  Other oppressed groups in society tend to believe in a god, in much larger numbers than those with social and economic privilege.  I'm a rare bird, because I also happen to be a female African American atheist.  From what I've observed, the vast majority of African American females, seem to have a fervent belief in a god.   I think the reason why, is because they are doubly oppressed, as both females and African Americans.  I respect the right of others to believe in a god.  But to me, there's just too much evidence that a god doesn't exist.

Quote from: "artwomyn":)
I'm a female Atheist, and proud of it.  I was raised in the Bible Belt, and was taught to believe in a god by those around me.  As I grew older, I questioned the idea of a god.  I figured why was there a god, when proof of evolution is overwhelming.  As a feminist, I also rejected the idea of a male deity, and patriarchal religion in general.  Patriarchal religion, has been used as a tool to oppress women for centuries.

I do agree with others on this thread, who think that more women believe in god, because they are
still more powerless than men.  Other oppressed groups in society tend to believe in a god, in much larger numbers than those with social and economic privilege.  I'm a rare bird, because I also happen to be a female African American atheist.  From what I've observed, the vast majority of African American females, seem to have a fervent belief in a god.  I think the reason why, is because they are doubly oppressed, as both females and African Americans.  I respect the right of others to believe in a god.  But to me, there's just too much evidence that a god doesn't exist.

Welcome to the forum artwomyn.

I'm male, white, wealthy and brought up atheist, which maybe makes it difficult to see things from the perspective of someone who might be more likely to be religious, so I would appreciate your thoughts. I read somewhere, and it stuck with me, that lack of security or control of one's life might be a cause of more religious belief. The USA seems like an anomaly to me. I'm Scottish but I have lived in the USA since my mid 20s. America is quite religious and yet like many western countries that are overwhelmingly not religious, it is wealthy. But there are other differences. For example, the USA has little in the way of safeguards like welfare. The government tends to make quite pivotal (maybe even rash) decisions. Americans are stressed. Maybe that makes religion more appealing.

Anyway, to get things back on topic, might women and African Americans feel less in control? And African American women doubly so? Thereby leading them to be more religious?

Quote from: "artwomyn"I do agree with others on this thread, who think that more women believe in god, because they are
still more powerless than men.  Other oppressed groups in society tend to believe in a god, in much larger numbers than those with social and economic privilege.  I'm a rare bird, because I also happen to be a female African American atheist.  From what I've observed, the vast majority of African American females, seem to have a fervent belief in a god.   I think the reason why, is because they are doubly oppressed, as both females and African Americans.

I think you are right on the money with this.

I have long thought that people who have a reduced or hampered hope of finding happiness in reality have a greater vulnerability to religion.

Quote from: "artwomyn":)
I'm a female Atheist, and proud of it.  I was raised in the Bible Belt, and was taught to believe in a god by those around me.  As I grew older, I questioned the idea of a god.  I figured why was there a god, when proof of evolution is overwhelming.  As a feminist, I also rejected the idea of a male deity, and patriarchal religion in general.  Patriarchal religion, has been used as a tool to oppress women for centuries.

I do agree with others on this thread, who think that more women believe in god, because they are
still more powerless than men.  Other oppressed groups in society tend to believe in a god, in much larger numbers than those with social and economic privilege.  I'm a rare bird, because I also happen to be a female African American atheist.  From what I've observed, the vast majority of African American females, seem to have a fervent belief in a god.   I think the reason why, is because they are doubly oppressed, as both females and African Americans.  I respect the right of others to believe in a god.  But to me, there's just too much evidence that a god doesn't exist.

YOU'RE A UNICIORN!!!!


I have never, ever, ever met an atheist black female, I almost thought they didn't exist!

Quote from: "Ultima22689"YOU'RE A UNICIORN!!!!


I have never, ever, ever met an atheist black female, I almost thought they didn't exist!

In the poly community, "unicorn" means something else entirely - the elusive bisexual woman looking to find a couple to join with to make a triad.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"

Quote from: "Ultima22689"YOU'RE A UNICIORN!!!!


I have never, ever, ever met an atheist black female, I almost thought they didn't exist!

In the poly community, "unicorn" means something else entirely - the elusive bisexual woman looking to find a couple to join with to make a triad.

I certainly didn't mean that. >_>

Quote from: "Kylyssa"

Quote from: "Ultima22689"YOU'RE A UNICIORN!!!!


I have never, ever, ever met an atheist black female, I almost thought they didn't exist!

In the poly community, "unicorn" means something else entirely - the elusive bisexual woman looking to find a couple to join with to make a triad.

Um... TMI

So women are repressed, and thus are driven into the hands of god? I can understand that. I used to be very anti-woman. Not any more though.  

In the bigger picture, the "women are oppressed" hypothesis is most likely true. I believe that militarism in ancient civilizations is more likely the originating reason that women are generally oppressed. After that, religion just kept them in "their place".

I'm not a fan of feminism, my friends who became feminists were the kind who would only date really hot assholes, then complain why do all guys...? Yeah... I'm into equality.

But Nikola Tesla has a pretty interesting idea (http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1926-01-30.htm) of women's future.

Quote from: "LoneMateria"

Quote from: "Kylyssa"

Quote from: "Ultima22689"YOU'RE A UNICIORN!!!!


I have never, ever, ever met an atheist black female, I almost thought they didn't exist!

In the poly community, "unicorn" means something else entirely - the elusive bisexual woman looking to find a couple to join with to make a triad.

Um... TMI

I say not enough!

Quote from: "artwomyn":)
I'm a female Atheist, and proud of it.  I was raised in the Bible Belt, and was taught to believe in a god by those around me.  As I grew older, I questioned the idea of a god.  I figured why was there a god, when proof of evolution is overwhelming.  As a feminist, I also rejected the idea of a male deity, and patriarchal religion in general.  Patriarchal religion, has been used as a tool to oppress women for centuries.

I do agree with others on this thread, who think that more women believe in god, because they are
still more powerless than men.  Other oppressed groups in society tend to believe in a god, in much larger numbers than those with social and economic privilege.  I'm a rare bird, because I also happen to be a female African American atheist.  From what I've observed, the vast majority of African American females, seem to have a fervent belief in a god.   I think the reason why, is because they are doubly oppressed, as both females and African Americans.  I respect the right of others to believe in a god.  But to me, there's just too much evidence that a god doesn't exist.

Honestly, You are only Physically oppressed.

How many women can give candy to children without being called perverts?

Now compare that to men.

And Now, For child fostering. Male to Female ratio? Now, Cout out the Goood parents. Male to female ratio?

Quote from: "Ninteen45"How many women can give candy to children without being called perverts?

I wasn't aware that it was socially acceptable for anyone to give candy to random children (other than on Halloween; and gender doesn't appear to matter then).

It is for old spanish-speaking immigrant grandfather types.  

Especially close to the border.

Quote from: "Ninteen45"Honestly, You are only Physically oppressed.

How many women can give candy to children without being called perverts?

Now compare that to men.

And Now, For child fostering. Male to Female ratio? Now, Cout out the Goood parents. Male to female ratio?

Yeah, so true.  That's why men in the early 1900's who acted all lippy were given the medical diagnosis of "hysteria" and had their uterus's removed.  Oh wait....

I speak only for myself here, but i do not live in the early 1900s. Saying X used to happen to Women, therefor women are oppressed today, is a spurious argument.

Having said that, threads going in this direction don't seem to go down well here.

Quote from: "SSY"I speak only for myself here, but i do not live in the early 1900s. Saying X used to happen to Women, therefor women are oppressed today, is a spurious argument.

Having said that, threads going in this direction don't seem to go down well here.

I suppose you could look at what is meant by "oppressed". Men and Women at that time had specific social rights. Some women want the advantages normally associated with men. I assume you are saying that the associated rights appear balanced?

To the best of my knowledge, women today have at least as many rights as do men, that is to say nothing of how these rights are implemented or practiced in society at large.

I am not really sure what point you are trying to get at here.

At the London fashion week recently, a stylist had a big hissy fit and walked out because of the decision to include size 14 models. It turns out (apparently) the stylist was a woman-hating gay man. I personally prefer the look of a curvaceous woman to a size zero twiglet any day.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... -mark-fast (http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/sep/20/london-fashion-week-mark-fast)

Fact: 1% or anorexic people are male.

There is a continuing row over the payments tennis players receive for competing and/or winning at the Wimbledon tennis tournament. Male players are still paid more than female ones. Also, have you seen the difference in size between the two trophies?

"Army rules forbid the deployment of women in operations where they would be expected to “close with and kill the enemy”. But senior officers said last night that all operations outside base camps could be regarded as on the front line."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/p ... 168044.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4168044.ece)
I've heard the argument that if men saw a female soldier get wounded on the battlefield they would be more inclined toward battlefield hysteria than if the same happened to a male colleague. Is this based upon truth or is it used as an excuse for the continued inequality and/or sexism within the armed forces?

There is a continued issue in the UK with the rights of men over the children they have had with previous female partners. The majority still rule that the men lose out, sometimes completely, after divorce proceedings. I've heard of cases where the mother has been a drug addict. The father has had a stable job and ownership of a house but still has not been granted custody - even when the child involved has not wanted to live with the mother. There's still a blatant failure of the system to treat things on a case-by-case basis whilst excluding any social or gender prejudice.

As far as I'm concerned there is still no true equal rights in today's society. Even though we seem to strive for this, something holds us back.
Sorry if the above isn't anything to do with the OP but I just wanted to say a few things as this seems to be the direction this thread is going.

Quote from: "SSY"To the best of my knowledge, women today have at least as many rights as do men, that is to say nothing of how these rights are implemented or practiced in society at large.

I am not really sure what point you are trying to get at here.

Try wearing a dress in public.

Quote from: "Ellainix"

Quote from: "SSY"To the best of my knowledge, women today have at least as many rights as do men, that is to say nothing of how these rights are implemented or practiced in society at large.

I am not really sure what point you are trying to get at here.

Try wearing a dress in public.

Are you trying to debate or just be obtuse?

Quote from: "Whitney"

QuoteProfessors at Trinity College in Connecticut analyzed the numbers of Americans unaffiliated to any religion. While the number of male nonbelievers was rocketing, the overall totals were slowed by women hitching themselves to the anchor of faith: “Gender difference is a brake on the growth of the No Religion population,” says the study, which found that 19 percent of men were no longer denizens of a religious America, while only 12 percent of women live outside the faithful fold. In the past, one could say that women tended the hearth, and men participated in the marketplace. But today?

{snip}

Some researchers hypothesize that women are hardwired to believe because of evolutionary imperatives. Belief in Godâ€"or the Mount Olympus ensemble cast, or a phalanx of wood spirits, and so onâ€"has long been connected with tribal ritual, and formed the center of communities. Women relied on these communities for the survival of their children, while men were off spearing buffalo, pillaging neighboring settlementsâ€"or whatever the caveman business trip furnished. The relationship between belonging and belief is an ancient one. It may have resulted in the development of certain alleles connected to a sense of God, or at least a commitment to religion.

Why do atheists spend so much time discussing a God they deny exists?  :)

Quite simple really. People don't knock on my door telling me i will burn in hell if i don't believe in Darth Vader. People aren't continually discriminated against/lose their jobs/become social pariahs because they don't believe in Darth Vader. We don't get the ideology of Darth Vader forced down our throats on a daily basis and 'In darth Vader We Trust' is not on all the bank notes of the US. Children aren't mutilated and brainwashed and people aren't stoned to death in the name of Darth Vader.

If any of the above were to happen in the name of Darth Vader, you'd see a lot of forums such as HAF, discussing his non-existence.

Quote from: "Carico"Why do atheists spend so much time discussing a God they deny exists?  :)

Full Text:  http://www.doublex.com/section/life/why ... elieve-god (http://www.doublex.com/section/life/why-do-more-women-men-still-believe-god)

Why do Christians spend so much time on Atheist forums? God has made us atheists, and we are happy that way. They don't spend as much time convincing vegans to eat cheese, or hanging out with communists, reading everything they say. Maybe they are trying to deny that they have doubt and are drawn to atheist websites in order to probe the inconstancies they see with their god?

For the record, I do care whether god exists, it is actually quite an important question. Not least because he seems to have an unstable and deeply hateful, violent personality, if you go by what the bible says.

Quote from: "SSY"

Quote from: "Carico"Why do atheists spend so much time discussing a God they deny exists?  :)

Full Text:  http://www.doublex.com/section/life/why ... elieve-god (http://www.doublex.com/section/life/why-do-more-women-men-still-believe-god)

Why do Christians spend so much time on Atheist forums? God has made us atheists, and we are happy that way. They don't spend as much time convincing vegans to eat cheese, or hanging out with communists, reading everything they say. Maybe they are trying to deny that they have doubt and are drawn to atheist websites in order to probe the inconstancies they see with their god?

For the record, I do care whether god exists, it is actually quite an important question. Not least because he seems to have an unstable and deeply hateful, violent personality, if you go by what the bible says.

troll ownage.

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Carico (http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Carico)

Quote from: "Whitney"http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Carico

I believe it

Quote from: "Whitney"http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Carico

Whoa!!  :eek:  

Quote from: "karadan"

Quote from: "Whitney"http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Carico

Whoa!!  :eek:  ;) That deception is the only thing atheists have. They'll have to pay for it throughout eternity, so I let them have their fun now.

The Now is Eternity.  

Quote from: "Carico"

Quote from: "karadan"

Quote from: "Whitney"http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Carico

Whoa!!  :eek:  ;) That deception is the only thing atheists have. They'll have to pay for it throughout eternity, so I let them have their fun now.

Carico...don't complain about slander when you are so willing to slander a whole group of people.  Again, no preaching, from now on I'm going to start handing out strikes.

Wow.. So it is the same Carico then?

My fundie alarm is ringing...