Happy Atheist Forum

If a tree falls in a forest, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

The key to solving this problem is recognizing that by uttering the statement "tree falls in forest" anyone hearing that statement is de-facto "around" to hear it. Someone being around to hear it really just means that someone knows a tree falls. Well, we, as hearers of the problem, know that the tree has fallen in the forest, and we know that when tree's fall, they make sounds.

Thus, by the very uttering of the question, you are negating the idea that no one would be around to hear it.

However, given that we don't live our daily lives randomly thinking, "a tree just made a sound right now"...

I disagree with your assertion that by hearing the utterance of someone saying "if a tree falls in the forest", that one is necessarily present for the felling of the tree. One can come upon a fallen tree in a forest weeks after it fell and assume it fell, but not know if anyone was around at the time. If no one was around at the time, then no one could have heard a sound.

The real key to this is the definition of sound. If there were no "hearers", that is, lifeforms capable of turning the pressure waves created by moving objects, then there is no "sound" per se. However, even lifeforms without hearing can "feel" the vibrations of the pressure wave if they are equipped with even a rudimentary nervous system and the necessary organs to react to the vibrations.

Meh. Same difference.  

If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?

No.  But it would make vibrations.

 

Quote from: "Whitney"If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?

No.  But it would make vibrations.

 

I agree. Sound is a human concept. No human no sound. But there would be air waves.

Quote from: "Renegnicat"Meh. Same difference.  

Really? I didn't think so, based on your answer. Maybe I misunderstood.

This whole concept comes down to semantics. It just depends on what your definition of sound is. My own interpretation of sound is the frequency, waves, the noise itself; not whether or not there is a functioning ear around to hear it. So, in this sense, yes it makes a sound. On the other hand, one could argue that sounds requires the senses. Without life the action of waves vibrating is all that sound is reduced to.

NonoNO!  :brick:

Well, that's sort of my point. The question will cease to impress you if you give it a dose of perspective.  

Bah, I usually laugh my head of when I hear it.

A tree always makes a sound when it falls, No exeption. Nobody is around to hear it, but, Animals may hear it though.

Quote from: "Ninteen45"Bah, I usually laugh my head of when I hear it.

A tree always makes a sound when it falls, No exeption. Nobody is around to hear it, but, Animals may hear it though.

Ah but animals have bodies. They're alive, not a nobody. So if there is an animal around to hear it I think the sound was heard.  Semantics...

Why do trees always cause these type of problems... stupid trees, someone need to turn them into toothpicks .  Here is a solution for you.  Yes it makes a noise and I can verify it by placing a recorder at the scene.  When i come back I guarantee there will be some noise from that tree falling.

Quote from: "LoneMateria"Why do trees always cause these type of problems... stupid trees, someone need to turn them into toothpicks lol

Quote from: "AlP"

Quote from: "Ninteen45"Bah, I usually laugh my head of when I hear it.

A tree always makes a sound when it falls, No exeption. Nobody is around to hear it, but, Animals may hear it though.

Ah but animals have bodies. They're alive, not a nobody. So if there is an animal around to hear it I think the sound was heard.  Semantics... lol.

It appears we are in agreement.  

Quote from: "AlP"

Quote from: "LoneMateria"Why do trees always cause these type of problems... stupid trees, someone need to turn them into toothpicks lol

It doesn't matter it still made the sound and now I have proof for it ^_^.  I don't have to be there to perceive it.  If when the tree falls sound follows it will be recorded so it does make a sound I just don't realize it until later.

sorry for the bad analogy, but if you took a crap and it stunk, why would you think someone else's crap wouldn't stink?

what I am saying is that the sound was made. if a tape recorder would have been there it would have recorded it...

to me this question is like talking about a universe existing under your fingernail!...

it is philosophical, and I like it

horton hears a who comes to mind...

This is part of the point I made earlier. There must be a receiver of some sort that takes the pressure waves (which are the only thing created by the falling tree) and "turn them into sound" (which is what we have termed as the sense of hearing). The question is an old one, probably based on an overly simplistic view of sound, or likely was created as a simple, almost child's level logic question to help people understand that events occur even when we are not present to observe them.

I do not now nor have I ever understood why this question is still asked, like it's deep or philosophical or something. It's trite and it's cliché. Unless a tree falls in a vacume. There will always be vibrations from the tree falling just because no one is within the maxmum range of these vibrations does not prevent them from ocurring. It's like asking "if your house burned down and no one was there to feel the heat did you house really burn down?" Well when you get back and your home is charred ashes it won't matterif the heat was felt you home is still gone. Just because the is no evidence left from the tree's fall of it's noisyness does not mean it wasn't noisy. If you can't trust a tree to make a sound just because you're not there to hear it you might as well take the Old Man in the shack from The Hitch Hikers Guide and not believe anything or anyone anywhere is real.

If a tree falls in a forest and nobody hears it, then who cares whether it made a sound or not?

Quote from: "templeboy"If a tree falls in a forest and nobody hears it, then who cares whether it made a sound or not?

Someone who wants to use the argument, "but you weren't there so you couldn't have known" in a future debate.  Probably someone like Kirk Cameron or Pat Robertson since i've heard both use that argument to try and disprove something.