Happy Atheist Forum

So i'm a pretty much mixed guy, my mom is mostly black, my Dad is LOLWTFBBQ? So while I was raised black alot of people don't accept me as black despite my curly hair which is pretty afrocentric but it's what a lot of people I have known in the black community to be called "good hair". Now I don't have a particular care about race really but my mom drills into my head how I should be with a black woman. Now my mom is by no means a bible thumper but she does believe sadly and is pretty self righteous, when someone argues with her she pretty much drones them out. She has this belief that mixed people tend to be somewhat crazy and looking at my Dad's family I guess that is somewhat warranted so she continues to tell me I should stick with a black women despite me usually being despised by black women for whatever reason I have yet to discover. Now I don't really care about race too much but should I? Is there even any evidence that mixed people tend to be less stable? It's something that has been bugging me for awhile.

I don't see any reason what-so-ever to date within your own "race". The concept of race is fundamentaly misleading. Aside from a few arbitrary inherited genetic traits the idea of race is silly. The idea of "sticking to you own race" is generally rooted in ignorance and racism (which is caused by the former anyway). If you meet an individual who interests and excites would you allow something as arbitrary as say thier favorite color not matching yours to be a good reason to not date them? I'm guesing not, most differences in race are just as arbitrary. We all come from Africa when our ancestors left is just a silly reason when choosing a date.

We are all human....what color your mate's skin is has no factor in if the offspring will be crazy or not.  That said, you probably should worry if the person you are dating has a family history of mental disorders.

That all sounds about right, I wouldn't worry too much about mental problems seeing as my family is a staple of them, I myself am a mental disorder cocktail. YAY!!!

I agree - there's only one race - the human race.  In that case, sure, don't date outside your race - humans only, bud.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"I agree - there's only one race - the human race.  In that case, sure, don't date outside your race - humans only, bud.

Darn, Cats are so cute though....

So, she says that mixed people tend to be crazy, but then marries a mixed guy, and has mixed kids with him. She sounds like the crazy one to me.

If anything, surely being mixed is a genetic advantage, as it is as far away from inbreeding as possible. There have also been studies done showing mixed people have more symmetrical faces ( IIRC ) which is an indicator of healthy genetics.

Quote from: "SSY"So, she says that mixed people tend to be crazy, but then marries a mixed guy, and has mixed kids with him. She sounds like the crazy one to me.

If anything, surely being mixed is a genetic advantage, as it is as far away from inbreeding as possible. There have also been studies done showing mixed people have more symmetrical faces ( IIRC ) which is an indicator of healthy genetics.

I'd like to see those studies...

Quote from: "andrewclunn"I'd like to see those studies...

Though this page (http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200512/mixed-race-pretty-face) does not directly bring you to the studies in question (no doubt G oogle could help you there, were you truly interested in the subject) it does a decent job of discussing the issues and conclusions related to them.
 My opinion is that mongrels seem to be on the whole healthier than inbreds, regardless what species is involved.  Not to put too fine a point on it; race purists are simply parading their ignorance and prejudice.

Race isn't important your interpersonal connection is.  Being crazy is a combination of Nature and Nurture.  I don't know of any scientific studies that show mix races has any genetic advantage or disadvantage.  Eventually, if you are lucky, you will find someone who you want to spend the rest of your life with.  I <3 my gf of 4 years and it doesn't matter to me if she is black, or asian, or hispanic, or whatever (were both white) I'd still love her.  Ultima you are an atheist.  Just use some critical thinking and some logic that you are obviously capable of using and come to your answer.  Don't let stigmas or prejudice determine this.  At days end all those are are meaning constructs created and maintained by the older generations and are arbitrary compared to your own personal happiness.

I think we've missed something important. Who you date is your choice, not your mother's choice. Respecting your mother is all well and good. She's important to you right? But on something as important as who you date, your value judgments are more important than your mother's IMHO.

I like Indians and Pac Islanders and Russians and Asians.
I like Latinas and Brazilians and Australians and Caucasians.
I like gingers and black girls and Arabs and Persians.
Yes I like to indulge in all womanly versions.  

Quote from: "LoneMateria"Race isn't important your interpersonal connection is.  Being crazy is a combination of Nature and Nurture.  I don't know of any scientific studies that show mix races has any genetic advantage or disadvantage.  Eventually, if you are lucky, you will find someone who you want to spend the rest of your life with.  I <3 my gf of 4 years and it doesn't matter to me if she is black, or asian, or hispanic, or whatever (were both white) I'd still love her.  Ultima you are an atheist.  Just use some critical thinking and some logic that you are obviously capable of using and come to your answer.  Don't let stigmas or prejudice determine this.  At days end all those are are meaning constructs created and maintained by the older generations and are arbitrary compared to your own personal happiness.

mmm indeed. I don't know why I didn't just assume it was more of her craziness, I should know better than that, well I have been browsing(trolling) the stormfront site lately, those people can really make you feel like there is no hope left in the world.

Quote from: "LoneMateria"Race isn't important your interpersonal connection is.  Being crazy is a combination of Nature and Nurture.  I don't know of any scientific studies that show mix races has any genetic advantage or disadvantage.  Eventually, if you are lucky, you will find someone who you want to spend the rest of your life with.  I <3 my gf of 4 years and it doesn't matter to me if she is black, or asian, or hispanic, or whatever (were both white) I'd still love her.  Ultima you are an atheist.  Just use some critical thinking and some logic that you are obviously capable of using and come to your answer.  Don't let stigmas or prejudice determine this.  At days end all those are are meaning constructs created and maintained by the older generations and are arbitrary compared to your own personal happiness.

I'm in total agreement here.  People who try and push racial purity or try to push racial mixing based on genetics can shove it.  Happiness and love are what it's about.  Dating isn't some arranged dance for determining breeding stock.

Quote from: "Will"I like Indians and Pac Islanders and Russians and Asians.
I like Latinas and Brazilians and Australians and Caucasians.
I like gingers and black girls and Arabs and Persians.
Yes I like to indulge in all womanly versions.  

I both agree with and adore this.  Oh, and men, too.

The idea that a mixed race person would be more likely to have a genetically caused mental disorder makes no sense biologically.  The less closely related the individuals are, the less likely their offspring are going to get two copies of the same recessive gene and the more likely the offspring are to be healthy.  So please allow yourself to bask in your own genetic superiority for a moment!!! :P  

As far as any craziness, I imagine that just being a mixed person in our culture with it's stupid stereotypes is aggravating in and of itself; finding a place to fit in culturally and dealing with the attitudes on both sides does not sound easy.

Quote from: "LARA"The idea that a mixed race person would be more likely to have a genetically caused mental disorder makes no sense biologically.  The less closely related the individuals are, the less likely their offspring are going to get two copies of the same recessive gene and the more likely the offspring are to be healthy.  So please allow yourself to bask in your own genetic superiority for a moment!!! :P  

As far as any craziness, I imagine that just being a mixed person in our culture with it's stupid stereotypes is aggravating in and of itself; finding a place to fit in culturally and dealing with the attitudes on both sides does not sound easy.

I see makes sense. Growing up looking of questionable heritage is as you said no walk in the park. From 2nd to 8th grade I used to get beat up every day because the all black school thought I was white so they would antagonize and beat me every day. When I came down here to the south, I think the word south speaks for itself. It's frustrating because are always screaming about race trying to tell me what I am then I come home and my mom begins comparing to my Uncle Pat who does indeed identify as white and telling me to be loyal to being black, etc, etc. Gets tiresome to know there are so many stupid people out there.

I can not handle this right now.

Quote from: "LARA"The idea that a mixed race person would be more likely to have a genetically caused mental disorder makes no sense biologically.  The less closely related the individuals are, the less likely their offspring are going to get two copies of the same recessive gene and the more likely the offspring are to be healthy.  So please allow yourself to bask in your own genetic superiority for a moment!!! :P  :brick:

silly question:

Would a big black man fit inside a tiny asian woman? If they were in love, that would cause some issues, yes?

Quote from: "Renegnicat"silly question:

Would a big black man fit inside a tiny asian woman? If they were in love, that would cause some issues, yes?

Well excuse my french but I happen to have the piece of a big black man and I've made love to a tiny Asian woman before and it wasn't much of an issue but she noticed some minor stretching, worse come to worse you will just end up with a slightly larger vagina.

Ah. I envy you.

But the reason for my question was a comment made by a chinese woman to a reporter that, "anatomically, we do not fit", you know what I mean. But thanks for clearing that up, anyway.

Well some women probably want the wang to fit more comfortably than others and for some that means filling every bit of her pleasure cave and for others they want their to be some space in there and others don't like the flesh torpedo reaching all the way back while others do, it's a matter of preference, i've even heard the argument that an Asian woman is very likely to end up impregnated by a black man because he can reach so incredibly far back that he is very likely to reach the cervix and even in some cases penetrate it even though it's unlikely still.

QuoteAndrew wrote:

Ummm assuming that the mental disorder is caused by a recessive and not a dominant trait (as many genetic defects are) then you'd just be doubling up. Besides the likelihood of dual defective recessive traits drops off so dramatically once you date farther out than your own cousins that it's not even worth mentioning/ This is just pro-mixed marriage propaganda and it's just as much bullshit as the genetic purity crap that the other side throws out. Why must people constantly trade one form of self delusion for another?  

Yes, you are correct as long as you aren't boinking your sister or cousin, you're pretty safe.  But you can still get two copies of a detrimental gene even if you aren't, and this is why people who are known carriers of a lethal or damaging recessive trait will have genetic testing done with their mates.  I don't think the parents of a healthy child due to genetic testing would consider this fact not worth mentioning.

Because of lethal or damaging recessive traits, it is a general rule that genetic diversity is a good thing within a species.  This is not self delusion. In the case of a good or desirable recessive trait, sure having two copies is great, but if you have to bang a relative to get it, well then, you are just playing with fire because of the risks involved with other recessives.   Also, location, location, location.  What is an undesirable trait in one environment can be a positive trait in another area. So to even suggest that there is such a thing as genetic superiority, one has got to be joking . Also the whole subject in recessives in biology is confusing because genetics isn't always a black and white, recessive and dominant area.  It is complex.

Yes, he could still have a disorder caused by a single allele, but it wouldn't be because of his mixed heritage.  The whole viewpoint that's the problem is the idea that because of the mixed racial background he has a genetic mental disorder.  Which is wrong.

(Note: I edited this post for more clarity)

I agree with everything you say until this point:

Quote from: "LARA"Also, location, location, location.  What is an undesirable trait in one environment can be a positive trait in another area. So to even suggest that there is such a thing as genetic superiority, one has got to be joking . Also the whole subject in recessives in biology is confusing because genetics is simply not a black and white recessive and dominant area.  It is complex.

Yes, he could still have a disorder caused by a single allele, but it wouldn't be because of his mixed heritage.  The whole viewpoint that's the problem is the idea that because of the mixed racial background he has a genetic mental disorder.  Which is wrong.

Two things.  First, some traits are just bad traits to have regardless (harlequin babies for example.)  So there certainly are some combinations that are superior / inferior.  Though something like skin tone would of course be relative to the latitude (or more specifically the amount and intensity of sunlight) of your environment.  Second, not all of these 'damaging' traits are recessive, so that if two people with two different dominant harmful traits have children, then they could have a child with both those traits.  Overall though genetic diversity is a good thing, it's just that assuming that because genetic diversity within a species is good means that people should marry outside their race, is a non-sequitur, which is one of the two points I was trying to make in my earlier post.

I agree with Andrew, i've come to the conclusion that you should go with who you like and not focus on genetics too much  barring you both have family members with some sort of horrible disease then i'd be worried other wise the traits are so arbitrary it isn't all that big a deal although it is somewhat interesting how so many mixed people have popped up as celebrates in the past decade or so.

Dammit Andrew, you quoted me before I had that fully edited   .

1. I never said that people should marry outside their race. Your argument with other people who say and believe you should marry another race is not my problem.  I don't care what race people pick.  It's their choice.

2. Maybe you didn't read this the first time?  I wrote, yes, he could still have a disorder caused by a single allele, (as in the examples you pointed out) but it wouldn't be because of his mixed heritage.  
   The whole viewpoint that's the  problem is the idea that because of the mixed racial background he has a genetic mental disorder.

3. Just because I said a detrimental trait in one environment can be a positive trait in another doesn't mean I don't know that some genes can kill or disable people. If it kills you it isn't about inferiority,
   you're just dead and that's it.  If it disables you, you still aren't inferior; for a small example look at the new company that hires autistics to do coding changes because they simply are better at it.
   Organisms adapt and use other skills when one is disabled.  Sometimes a genetic difference can cause a small problem now that protects against disease later on.  Inferior and superior are subjective
   terms that don't have any application if we are going to seriously talk about biology.  Inferior and superior are opinions.  Environment does matter in survival and environment can change,
   sometimes rapidly.

LARA,

1. Okay, so we're agreed here.  People should marry based on things other than race.

2. Except that hybridization can result in the loss of advantageous traits deigned for a specific environment.  Of course this is predicated on:

3. Yes some things are just superior / inferior.  There's no environment where it's a good thing to have down syndrome for example.  I know it offends "equality dogma" to say that, but I'm not one of those people who really cares what's socially acceptable.

QuoteLARA,

1. Okay, so we're agreed here. People should marry based on things other than race.

2. Except that hybridization can result in the loss of advantageous traits deigned for a specific environment. Of course this is predicated on:

3. Yes some things are just superior / inferior. There's no environment where it's a good thing to have down syndrome for example. I know it offends "equality dogma" to say that, but I'm not one of those people who really cares what's socially acceptable.

Andrew,

1. YAY!  Consensus!
2.  Hybridization refers to species.  A species is defined as a group of organisms that can interbreed to produce fertile offspring.  Sometimes different species can reproduce, but their offspring can't.  We are just talking race.  It's not in the same ballpark as a species.
3. Point taken.  I try, and generally fail, to be socially acceptable.  I think the world is better off for my effort.