Happy Atheist Forum

Just a quick intro.  

I was raised mormon and was indoctrinated heavily.  I went to Brigham Young University. (no thinking necessary as only one world view was allowed) I was a missionary for the church, and went through the "sacred" temple ceremonies.  If you have any questions about mormonism, it's likely I'll know the answer.  

I had always had a bit of cognitive dissonance with certain aspects of the church, then my 1st husband died and my life changed.  I went back to college, a real university this time.  Later, I did the unthinkable and married an athiest.  He is the kindest, most moral and ethical man I have ever met. He never tried to persuade me to leave my religion.  Anyway, a few months after I got married I heard some strange beliefs attributed to mormons on the raido.  I used my newly found research and critical thinking skills to look into these issues and found mormonism to be a load of crap.  Christianity and all other religions soon followed that into toilet and I flushed it all out of my life.  

Its good to be a happy atheist!

Time for me to go to sleep.

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Quote from: "Lea"Its good to be a happy atheist!

Yes indeed.  Hello and welcome, Lea.

Thanks!  

Hi Lea, and welcome to the forum! Thank you so much for your introduction. Although quite a few of us here were Christians, I don't think any of us has been or knows very much about the mormon church. Everything I know I learned from South Park (ok, not entirely true, as I have had Mormon friends, but it was the most fun I had learning about Mormons!).

Sounds like you've been through a lot of difficult times in your life, and it's heartening to see you've come through them so well. I look forward to your participation here. Feel free to encourage your husband to lurk on the forum and see if he's interested in hanging out here too.

 

McQ, actually the episodes of South Park portray Mormon history better than the church itself does.  I'd say you know more of the real history than the average member does.    

I'll probably share stuff from the forum with DH, or get his input on subjects before I post.  He just got a new game for his PC and is obsessed with it.  His laptop is his god, and the game its prophet.  Its not quite that bad, but hes not into reading and posting on forums right now.

Welcome to the forum, Lea.

Hehe, reminds me that I learned everything I know about Scientology from that one episode of Southpark.

Anyway, welcome to the forum. I know essentialy nothing at all about Mormonism, so I would be interested to hear what its all about.

Welcome to HAF!

Quote from: "Lea"He just got a new game for his PC and is obsessed with it.  His laptop is his god, and the game its prophet.

, sounds like my husband only replace PC with XBOX.

Quote from: "Reginus"I know essentialy nothing at all about Mormonism, so I would be interested to hear what its all about.

It would take forever to explain everything in Mormonism, but I'd be happy to answer specific questions.

Quote from: "Lea"

Quote from: "Reginus"I know essentialy nothing at all about Mormonism, so I would be interested to hear what its all about.

It would take forever to explain everything in Mormonism, but I'd be happy to answer specific questions.

OK, I'll lead off. Why do Mormons not let visitors into the temple? Do you have to be a Mormon to go in? Can prospective converts go in? And, most importantly, what the heck is in there that they are so secretive about?

Oh yeah, also...what's with the funny underwear? I don't remember what it was for, but one of my Army buddies wore some kind of giant boxers or something that had to do with his being Mormon.

Welcome to HAF

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/BOM/index.htm

Heres a link to a Book of Mormon, it might explain a few things.  I don't know haven't read through it yet i'm still working on the bible.  And isn't the magical underwear meant to keep them pure and they can only take them off to go to the bathroom?  I <3 that south park episode for Joseph Smith and when Stan briefly took over Scientology.  "We don't exactly know why Tom Cruise is in the closet but his fans are urging him to come out of the closet so he can get on with life."

Quote from: "McQ"

Quote from: "Lea"

Quote from: "Reginus"I know essentialy nothing at all about Mormonism, so I would be interested to hear what its all about.

It would take forever to explain everything in Mormonism, but I'd be happy to answer specific questions.

OK, I'll lead off. Why do Mormons not let visitors into the temple? Do you have to be a Mormon to go in? Can prospective converts go in? And, most importantly, what the heck is in there that they are so secretive about?

Oh yeah, also...what's with the funny underwear? I don't remember what it was for, but one of my Army buddies wore some kind of giant boxers or something that had to do with his being Mormon.

Mormons do not let visitors into the temple because they consider it an extremely sacred and holy place.  They believe that it is literally God's house and you are in his presence while inside.  Not all Mormons can enter the temple either.  You have to pass two interviews given to you from priesthood leaders, a bishop and whats called a stake president.  In the interviews, you answer questions about your beliefs and your practice of the religion.  Its stuff like:  Do you believe in God and Jesus Christ?   Do you believe that Thomas Monson is a prophet of God?  Do you live the law of chastity? (No sex unless you are married)  Do you keep the word of wisdom?  (No coffee, tea, tobacco, or illegal drugs) You also have to pay a full 10% of your income to the church to be able to enter the temple.

The funny underwear are temple garments.  Mormons get to wear these after they have been through the temple.  Its to remind them of the promises they have made to god.  Like... you are about to have sex with some hottie, you start to take off your clothes and you remember: "oh yeah, my temple garments.  I promised god I wouldn't have sex untill I was married."  Its basically another layer of control the church has for its members.  The temple garments are supposed to protect the wearer from bodily harm as well.  There are stories about the garments saving people who were in car accidents.  

I know they have sold mormon temple garments on ebay, if you wanted to see a picture.  The temple endowment ceremony is also available online.  There are secret handshakes involved that get you past the guards and into heaven.  Its pretty much plagiarized from the Free Masons.

Do they still not allow black people in any position in the church?  Why can't some Mormons own cars?  My GF is an ex-Mormon.  She said when her family left the religion they kept calling and harassing them and it got so bad they had to threaten to call the police and get a restraining order on the church.

Hi Lea,

Good for you for using your brain! Welcome to the site. I'm new here as well.

Quote from: "Lea"You also have to pay a full 10% of your income to the church to be able to enter the temple.

Ah, so that explains everything  

Welcome Lea!

I'm in some good Mormon territory here in Oregon.  Can't toss a cat without hitting one.  Honestly, though... if every single Christian were to turn Mormon, I'd be okay with it.  The Mormons are some of the nicest people up here.  While they may KNOW I'm going to hell or at least not the upper level of heaven, they NEVER rub my face in it, never mention it.  They treat me just like any of their contemporaries.  Not at ALL like the Christians I meet.

I had a Mormon neighbor answer pretty much all of my questions a few years back.  While I find it all a crock (yes, South Park was very accurate... it's insane how they justify the "ludicrosity" of it all), the only outstanding question I have is one I couldn't ask her face to face.  Are they ever naked in front of each other, man and wife?  And do you watch Big Love?  We LOVE that show... all the intrigue of a spy drama!

Quote from: "LoneMateria"Do they still not allow black people in any position in the church?  Why can't some Mormons own cars?  My GF is an ex-Mormon.  She said when her family left the religion they kept calling and harassing them and it got so bad they had to threaten to call the police and get a restraining order on the church.

The prophet Spencer W. Kimball had a revelation in 1978 in which god said that men of all races could now hold the priesthood and have leadership positions in the church.  Civil rights came late to mormondom.  

I have never heard of members of the mainstream Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints not being allowed to own cars.  Maybe your GF was a Fundamentalist Mormon?  Did she or anyone in her family practice polygamy?  If so, she was a fundamentalist.  When people leave controlling religions like mormonism, the members might try to love bomb them back into the church.  Maybe this happened to your GF's family.  The love bombers say they have good intentions, but  their calls and unexpected visits easily become harassing.

Quote from: "rlrose328"Welcome Lea!

I'm in some good Mormon territory here in Oregon.  Can't toss a cat without hitting one.  Honestly, though... if every single Christian were to turn Mormon, I'd be okay with it.  The Mormons are some of the nicest people up here.  While they may KNOW I'm going to hell or at least not the upper level of heaven, they NEVER rub my face in it, never mention it.  They treat me just like any of their contemporaries.  Not at ALL like the Christians I meet.

I had a Mormon neighbor answer pretty much all of my questions a few years back.  While I find it all a crock (yes, South Park was very accurate... it's insane how they justify the "ludicrosity" of it all), the only outstanding question I have is one I couldn't ask her face to face.  Are they ever naked in front of each other, man and wife?  And do you watch Big Love?  We LOVE that show... all the intrigue of a spy drama!

Mormons are generally nice people.  Although, if they don't try to witness to you, they are not really living what they believe.  They should at least invite you over for family home evening with the missionaries.  But yes, they tend to be less obnoxious than some other Christians.

In past generations, there were some strange attitudes toward sex.  I have heard stories of old couples who had been married 40, 50 years who had never seen their husband/wife undress.  I am not going to speculate how they managed sex, uh, I'll leave it up to your imagination.  I hope its okay if I post this link to a site on Mormon sexuality:

http://www.i4m.com/think/sexuality/ (http://www.i4m.com/think/sexuality/)

In Mormonism today, if you are in a heterosexual married (no open marriages) couple, your sex life is pretty much your own business.  

I don't have HBO.    Oh well.  Can I get the series on netflix?

Quote from: "Lea"

Quote from: "LoneMateria"Do they still not allow black people in any position in the church?  Why can't some Mormons own cars?  My GF is an ex-Mormon.  She said when her family left the religion they kept calling and harassing them and it got so bad they had to threaten to call the police and get a restraining order on the church.

The prophet Spencer W. Kimball had a revelation in 1978 in which god said that men of all races could now hold the priesthood and have leadership positions in the church.  Civil rights came late to mormondom.  

I have never heard of members of the mainstream Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints not being allowed to own cars.  Maybe your GF was a Fundamentalist Mormon?  Did she or anyone in her family practice polygamy?  If so, she was a fundamentalist.  When people leave controlling religions like mormonism, the members might try to love bomb them back into the church.  Maybe this happened to your GF's family.  The love bombers say they have good intentions, but  their calls and unexpected visits easily become harassing.

I thought I heard something a few years back about a member of the church couldn't attain some position he was otherwise qualified for because he was black.  Anyway no my gf wasn't part of the polygamy sect of Mormonism.  Her immediate family was Mormon for a few years but no one else in her family is.  She doesn't know if the Church was fundamentalist or not.  

Her mom told me they kept harassing them and I guess love bombing is as good a term as any.  She also mentioned something that seemed sadistic to me.  Apparently if you have financial needs, you lose your job or whatever you aren't supposed to go on welfare, unemployment, WIC or anything else government funded.  You were supposed to go ask the Church for money and they would give it to you.  Which to me seems sinister because they want you to build dependence on the church.  From a financial perspective the ROI (return on investment) is more then likely very positive.  Give them money when they are young and you keep them forever, eventually it'll pay out.  I wonder how bad they are doing because of the recession.

Quote from: "Lea"I don't have HBO.    Oh well.  Can I get the series on netflix?

Yes, you CAN get the first few seasons I think, if they stock it.  WE don't get HBO all year, just when that show is on, but I think we're waiting this time for the series on DVD or Bluray.  It's excellent.  My neighbor moved away 4 years ago, so I don't know any Mormons well enough to ask how common they find the situations on there.  But it does represent the lunatic fringe, I think.

Quote from: "Reginus"

Quote from: "Lea"You also have to pay a full 10% of your income to the church to be able to enter the temple.

Ah, so that explains everything  

Yes.  I post on an ex-mormon forum too.  We frequently refer to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints as LDSinc.  They own huge cattle ranches in Florida, many corporations, a tourist destination in Hawaii, and they are in the process of building a multi-billion dollar shopping/entertainment/living center in Salt Lake City.  Yet the members get little back from the church.  There is always a scarcity of funds for church activities and the members act as janitors, each family in the church has a turn (or turns) to clean the church building each year.

Quote from: "LoneMateria"

Quote from: "Lea"

Quote from: "LoneMateria"Do they still not allow black people in any position in the church?  Why can't some Mormons own cars?  My GF is an ex-Mormon.  She said when her family left the religion they kept calling and harassing them and it got so bad they had to threaten to call the police and get a restraining order on the church.

The prophet Spencer W. Kimball had a revelation in 1978 in which god said that men of all races could now hold the priesthood and have leadership positions in the church.  Civil rights came late to mormondom.  

I have never heard of members of the mainstream Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints not being allowed to own cars.  Maybe your GF was a Fundamentalist Mormon?  Did she or anyone in her family practice polygamy?  If so, she was a fundamentalist.  When people leave controlling religions like mormonism, the members might try to love bomb them back into the church.  Maybe this happened to your GF's family.  The love bombers say they have good intentions, but  their calls and unexpected visits easily become harassing.

I thought I heard something a few years back about a member of the church couldn't attain some position he was otherwise qualified for because he was black.  Anyway no my gf wasn't part of the polygamy sect of Mormonism.  Her immediate family was Mormon for a few years but no one else in her family is.  She doesn't know if the Church was fundamentalist or not.  

Her mom told me they kept harassing them and I guess love bombing is as good a term as any.  She also mentioned something that seemed sadistic to me.  Apparently if you have financial needs, you lose your job or whatever you aren't supposed to go on welfare, unemployment, WIC or anything else government funded.  You were supposed to go ask the Church for money and they would give it to you.  Which to me seems sinister because they want you to build dependence on the church.  From a financial perspective the ROI (return on investment) is more then likely very positive.  Give them money when they are young and you keep them forever, eventually it'll pay out.  I wonder how bad they are doing because of the recession.

Despite what you have heard, in principle, there is nothing in Mormonism that should impede blacks from attaining any position of authority.  However, in practice, you almost never see black men among the mid to upper levels of church hierarchy.  

When a family is in need, the Bishop of a Ward congregation (geographical area, smallest unit in the church) has all the say in the conditions of that family receiving help from the church.  Sometimes he will ask to see all the families financial records and then he will tell them what they should eliminate to reduce their expenses before they get any help from the church.  My late husband's father at one time had 3 children on full time missions for the church.  His family had to pay for  these missions in Canada, The Dominican Republic, and in South Africa.  He was having difficulty making ends meet while supporting 3 children in foreign countries.  He asked his bishop for help.  The bishop told him that he should sell the baby grand piano that he had recently purchased, and then the church could help out financially.  My former father-in-law had always wanted a baby grand, he had inherited some money at the death of his mother, and he found this piano at an incredible deal.  He would probably never find another deal like it, so buying another piano in the future would most likely be impossible.  Anyway, he kept the piano and they scraped by without help.

My father was a bishop, and from my experience bishops usually encourage people to take advantage of government programs for which they qualify, as well as getting help from the church.  But there are different bishops some more liberal than others.  Maybe your gf's family had a bishop who was way out on the right fringe.  Bishops have complete say as to what goes on in their ward.  They usually don't have interference with higher ranking church officials unless they do something really horrible, like forget to collect the tithing money.

Yo, Exmormon:  
(You could take the second "m" out of "mormon" and still be right.)
So happy for you, Bub.
I was raised as a Baptist - same strict religious code of behavior, but no Donnie and Marie.  I never quite "felt right" in church, nor did I ever truly believe in god.  I was a teenager before I admitted it to myself.  We who are blessed with a good mind are the ones who yank the shroud of indoctrination from our brains and experience the exhileration of true freedom of thought.
I just can't help feeling sorry for those who still  "believe."  But they will ever be among us.  Maybe not on this site, but they're out there.
Got to go.  Have to be up early to donate blood tomorrow.  Atheist blood.  I have this gleeful, devilish little hope that somehow my blood will save a fundamentalist preacher's life, and then, once it gets flowing through his brain, he will wake up one morning and realize that religion is a load of horsecrap.
George

Oh, they know, all right. They know...

The ones at the top always know that they're just fooling everyone. If they actually believed in that mind-control, then they wouldn't be leaders!