Happy Atheist Forum

I love my country very much. I loved it even when Bush was in power, although I did not like much of what he did.

I vote Blue most of the time, but I vote Red too. I am probably one of the few who actually researches the judges and alderman in their neighborhoods and then decides who I want to support. Many times that ends up being Red, most of the time not.

Recently the Red states and Republicans in general have been hating on EVERYTHING that Obama does. They have picketed him trying to provide health care to the poor, yet they claim to be pro-life (I guess fetus' are worth more than those already born). They have been angered by Obama telling our children to stay in school. The constantly point out that he is trying to socialize our government (I'm not for socialism, but they use it as a cuss word). They try to force religion into our government and our schools. They have tried to force Christmas into our public buildings and the Ten Commandments into our court houses.

My argument is, perhaps we should let them do everything they want. Create the government that you desire. None of your opinions seem to match very well with the bill of rights, since we have separation of church and state, and we have "Life Liberty and Happiness" which leads me to wish we had reasonable health care. (Health care in my opinion should not be a "for profit institution" [it's our lives for FSM sakes!])

So looking at the map we see blue and red from the last election (btw Missouri should be blue if I recall correctly, not sure why it is not).
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mentalfloss.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F11%2Fstatemapredbluer512.png&hash=f32385ad37d1b975a2e7fc1b3d684f909a8712ea) (link to a population formatted map: http://www.mentalfloss.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/statepopredblue512.png)

Could we figure out a way to create two nations from this map? ...And should we? Opinions?

The question is, is it feasible? I'd move west  coast in a heartbeat if it happened. I wouldn't want to be the minority hippie walking around Jacksonville on that day.

Surprisingly Florida is blue right now  

Doesn't feel like it. I just had a hard core christian put his hand in my door and argue religion for forty minutes trying to convince me of God earlier today. I get that almost everyday along with, DIE LIBERAL, DAMN HIPPIE!!! Etc, etc

QuoteI just had a hard core christian put his hand in my door and argue religion for forty minutes trying to convince me of God earlier today.

Actually, that might have been me :yay:

I'm cool with it. We can call the red part Jesusland and the blue part The United States of Intelligence.

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"I'm cool with it. We can call the red part Jesusland and the blue part The United States of Intelligence.

Lol, nice, I love this idea.

Quote from: "Heretical Rants"

QuoteI just had a hard core christian put his hand in my door and argue religion for forty minutes trying to convince me of God earlier today.

Actually, that might have been me :yay:

Sorry for the double post but the next time a hard core christian knocks on my door i'm gonna ask him about the forum.

I guess I'm generally for the idea of the US splitting, perhaps not into two separate countries, but perhaps into two "regions," with their own laws that are above state level, but below federal level.  Then again, that's what the state level is supposed to be for anyway.  Maybe states need to have more say-so in what they do.

Of course, there are some concerns, like who gets what borders, and how would foreign powers try to take advantage of it.  This is just off the top of my head, no deep thought yet.

On a side note, I wish just once some independent would be taken seriously; someone who had the fiscal responsibility of a conservative, and the social policies (religion, homosexuality, abortion, etc.) of a liberal.  Seems like the best of both worlds to me.  Agree?  Disagree?

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"I'm cool with it. We can call the red part Jesusland and the blue part The United States of Intelligence.

I third that!  

Wow Florida was blue.  I live so damn close to Alabama and my area was definitely red for the election.  Damn Pensacola.  A little bit of trivia, Jay, Florida is currently home to the KKK its about 45 minutes away from where I live.  One of my buddies in college, who was from Jay, told me that the majority of Jay voted for Obama, now thats messed up.  Anyway talking about separating the states like this reminds me of the confederate flags I see far too often.  It feels like were trying to divide the states.

I say that instead of separating states like this why don't we live under certain laws in blue states and different laws in red states.  Yeah i'm sure some people would take advantage of it but oh well.  Let the red states have healthcare only for those who can afford it.  Let them indoctrinate their kids and lower the standards of education.  Have their kids only go to school until the 10th grade.  I say we stop trying to drag these people into the 21st century and let them fall behind, and we open up our borders to anyone who wants to join us.  Then after we've given everyone enough time to decide what state they want to be in we close off our borders.

My opinion is that this is a silly question to even ask. What's the point of being a free nation with the ability to have different political parties if all people want to do is divide it up according to the whim of the day? Why just two areas? Why not a different area for everyone who can't agree on anything that's important to them? People who like Ben and Jerry's here, and people who like Edy's there. People who think we shouldn't have more than one child per family here and those who disagree over there.

This isn't the only time in human history or American history that people of differing thoughts have had to coexist. And frankly, I think it is painting with too big a brush to link all Republicans to Jeebus Freaks and all Democrats to Rational thought. In fact, it's childish to do so, and it is simply wrong. There is some very narrow thinking going on here. I was really hoping this thread was a joke of some kind, but apparently it is not.

They'd go broke then try to attack us for resources, so we'd end up having to keep our bloated defense budget which would put a strain on our universal healthcare and other new social services. President Limbaugh would suffer a massive heart attack or overdose, and Vice President Beck would (tearfully) assume the office and begin a political and ethnic cleansing, meaning that the Democratic States of America would have to go before the UN and suggest sanctions against the Libertarian Confederation, which was already suffering, and it would lead to terrorism and eventually a third world country. The real irony would be that the DSA would have to establish serious border laws.

well Bush's super-fence didn't work.  We need a new idea.  If the Mexicans are smart enough to get around it, i'm sure bible thumpers are too.  I may be giving the thumpers too much credit, but who knows.  Maybe we can build a wall like the great wall of china and put huge flood lights around them to blind anyone trying to cross at night.  Have them patrolled by robots with guns (which they actually have it turns out).

All I can think of is Red vs Blue right now.  I can't take this seriously sorry people.  I have this picture of us fighting Sarge, Red sucks!  Maybe if we had Caboose we could trick him that the red people are on his team so he can teamkill them

USA should become more like Britain, separate countries, but still united.

Quote from: "Ninteen45"USA should become more like Britain, separate countries, but still united.

Thats essentially what the U.S. is.  Separate states united as one nation.  Each state has its own laws but their laws can't contradict our federal (national) laws.

Quote from: "Ninteen45"USA should become more like Britain, separate countries, but still united.

All that happens is England ends up subsidising the other countries with tax money. Great for Scotland, not so much England, I can't wait for devolution. I would prefer it if London was made a Micro State like the Vatican, that would be badass.

Quote from: "HandsandDreams"On a side note, I wish just once some independent would be taken seriously; someone who had the fiscal responsibility of a conservative, and the social policies (religion, homosexuality, abortion, etc.) of a liberal. Seems like the best of both worlds to me. Agree? Disagree?

You have literally just described my perfect Prime minister, I would do anything for such a party to emerge from the wreckage of Parliament, or the Conservatives throw off all their "Family Values" crap, either way, I'm good.

Quote from: "SSY"You have literally just described my perfect Prime minister, I would do anything for such a party to emerge from the wreckage of Parliament, or the Conservatives throw off all their "Family Values" crap, either way, I'm good.

Let's start a grassroots campaign called "Can the Crap."  

Seriously, Republicans, you take a "live and let live" stance on money, why not take it on social issues?  I realize I'm stereotyping, so please, if you're a Republican who already does this, don't smack me, smack your bible-thumping colleagues.

Quote from: "HandsandDreams"Let's start a grassroots campaign called "Can the Crap."  :D   See? Happy!

2. Rational arguments fly. Name calling, blatant falsehoods and name calling don't.

3. See numbers 1 and 2.

Maybe it's time to take a break... you know, see other governments. If, in a few election cycles, we decide to get back together, we'll be all the stronger because of it.

Quote from: "Will"Maybe it's time to take a break... you know, see other governments. If, in a few election cycles, we decide to get back together, we'll be all the stronger because of it.

Jesusland will be begging to have us back.

"Sorry, I'm with Canada now."  

Quote from: "McQ"I was really hoping this thread was a joke of some kind...

I think it is, even if unintentional, and most of the posts seem on the light-hearted side.  It does however serve to highlight a fairly strong tendency in the USA right now to allow ourselves to become polarized and stand on one side or the other of an idealogical divide yelling foolish epithets.  This thread reminds me of a fascinating book I read a long time ago, called The Nine Nations of North America (http://www.garreau.com/main.cfm?action=book&id=3), by Joel Garreau.  (Wiki here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Nations_of_North_America).) Things have changed some since he wrote it, but I think his analysis is still valid and I recommend it.  Exploring the "what-ifs" created by this question is an interesting subject.  Most of the scenarios mentioned here, and those that I've come up with myself, seem negative, but the way the USA is going right now (in the sense of becoming strongly divided idealogically, and therefore somewhat schizoid) is already pretty negative.  I can't see the USA actually splitting into more than one nation happening any time in the near future, though, for better or worse.

Quote from: "Recusant"

Quote from: "McQ"I was really hoping this thread was a joke of some kind...

I think it is, even if unintentional, and most of the posts seem on the light-hearted side.  It does however serve to highlight a fairly strong tendency in the USA right now to allow ourselves to become polarized and stand on one side or the other of an idealogical divide yelling foolish epithets.  This thread reminds me of a fascinating book I read a long time ago, called The Nine Nations of North America (http://www.garreau.com/main.cfm?action=book&id=3), by Joel Garreau.  (Wiki here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Nations_of_North_America).) Things have changed some since he wrote it, but I think his analysis is still valid and I recommend it.  Exploring the "what-ifs" created by this question is an interesting subject.  Most of the scenarios mentioned here, and those that I've come up with myself, seem negative, but the way the USA is going right now (in the sense of becoming strongly divided idealogically, and therefore somewhat schizoid) is already pretty negative.  I can't see the USA actually splitting into more than one nation happening any time in the near future, though, for better or worse.

I like the sound of that book. Guess what I'll be looking for today?    Thanks for the links on it. If I don't find it at B&N, I'll be on Amazon. This topic is a good one and I'd like to see some serious writing on it, so thanks!

I am all for the democratic ideal that the US is about, the problem is that, no matter what people's actual views are, religion seems to get in the way. Most of the RIGHT is made up of people who follow it merely because it matches with their religious values, not their economic, legislative, or governing views, it is all about their religious views. (I have much more respect for non-religious Republicans because at least then I know that they know what they are following). So I'm tired of fighting it!

The idea is give them that world that shall not be struck down by zombies with wings! To me they are holding back our economy, our society and our science (read: education). So I don't know what is to be done.

I like the idea of Britain, where we could have 2 separate governments, but under the same umbrella. Maybe one military, one treasury, one intelligence agency, one space agency, but laws and public well fare are left to two sides. (oh how easy it would be to relocate the Dakotas and Minnesota! It's like 12 people!)

We know the state thing hasn't worked, look at the states who have legalized gay marriage and medical marijauna! They have been battling Big Brother the whole time! I'm not very left but I disagree with the very right, and right now they are throwing a hissyfit that I don't care to have as part of my politics.

Although I doubt a revolution will start in an atheist forum, it makes for good discussion.

Here's what would happen:

The USA would split down the middle...the Dem's USA and the Repub's USA.

As time went by, the Dem's USA would fail economically because it wouldn't be able to support it's idealistic social programs, getting bogged down more and more by illegals coming in to live off of the "kindness" of the Dems...not to mention the lazy Repubs would slowly make their way over there as well. But, even though it's financially failing, the Dems would have such world support because they're friends with everyone through political correctness that they'd be able to sustain themselves through debt for a while. But, eventually, it would all come crashing down if a torrent of fiscal failures.

The Repub's USA would fail socially because it would ride such an extreme side of capitalism and militarism that there would be too much internal bickering about making more and more money, and less talk with outside countries because all borders would be closed off, pissing off most, if not all, of the world. They would further alienate by promoting their capitalist-god-fearing-democracy-is-the-only-way agenda through force and militarism, and eventually would find themselves alone in a world without allies.

So, one side would produce a country that would eventually drown in debt and alienate the world, while the other would drown in isolation and alienate the world. At that point, they would only be able to turn to each other, rejoin as one nation, and start all over again.

Take this as a light-hearted comment, or as a serious one...I can't decide which it is right now.

And between those two Texas would secede out of pure awesomeness and take back all the territory those assholes split off from us. Didn't do that shit to Alaska! Bullshit icicle that produces nothing good from it. NOTHING GOOD COMES FROM ALASKA!!! NOTHING!!!

I say we nuke it and all the polar bears that live there.

Quote from: "SlapMonkey"Here's what would happen:

The USA would split down the middle...the Dem's USA and the Repub's USA.

As time went by, the Dem's USA would fail economically because it wouldn't be able to support it's idealistic social programs, getting bogged down more and more by illegals coming in to live off of the "kindness" of the Dems...not to mention the lazy Repubs would slowly make their way over there as well. But, even though it's financially failing, the Dems would have such world support because they're friends with everyone through political correctness that they'd be able to sustain themselves through debt for a while. But, eventually, it would all come crashing down if a torrent of fiscal failures.

Yeah, like happened in Finland and all the other Northern European states! Wait, no, no, it didn't happen. Actually we prosper in many areas that you mentioned, better yet majority of Finns would think that we're in a right-wing nut job, total police state if a party like the Democrats would rule here.
Seriously, it's quite disturbing to follow the news about people going around saying Democrats are communists or liberals! Our major right-wing party National Coalition Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Coalition_Party) is quite left compared to your democrats. Seriously, your'e on the far right, the lot of ya!
Still, Finnish Communist Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Finland_%281997%29) is totally on the margins, it can't even get a single representative in our parliament.