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I was thinking, what if an all atheist nation was founded? I'm just curious of the implications, the plausibility, the negatives and positives, stuff like that. I don't even know if such a thing is even a good idea or even necessary but I thought it was an interesting idea, i'm sure it isn't the first time the thought was made but any opinions on this?

Apperently the Czech Republic is the most (or one of the most) atheistic countries in the world, and it's a pretty average country if I do say so myself. However, it does have one of the highest beer consuption rates per person in the world

http://cheekymax.wordpress.com/2007/03/09/the-most-atheistic-country-in-the-world/

An atheist country wouldn't end well. Secular is the way to go.

Quote from: "Reginus"Apperently the Czech Republic is the most (or one of the most) atheistic countries in the world, and it's a pretty average country if I do say so myself. However, it does have one of the highest beer consuption rates per person in the world

http://cheekymax.wordpress.com/2007/03/09/the-most-atheistic-country-in-the-world/

I think that is Sweden actually and from what I hear Sweden is supposedly pretty awesome.


http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html (http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html)

Well, Vietnam is in second place.

Quote from: "Ultima22689"

Quote from: "Reginus"Apperently the Czech Republic is the most (or one of the most) atheistic countries in the world, and it's a pretty average country if I do say so myself. However, it does have one of the highest beer consuption rates per person in the world :D They also mostly swear in English too, so you already have a partly swedish vocabulary!

QuoteWell, Vietnam is in second place.

I thought Vietnam mostly followed Buddhism? The last figures I saw, something like 80% of all Vietnamese said they were Buddhist, so not exactly an atheistic country. Although most of the countries in the top 10 of that list are first world, and doing extremely well.

Quote from: "Arctonyx"I thought Vietnam mostly followed Buddhism? The last figures I saw, something like 80% of all Vietnamese said they were Buddhist, so not exactly an atheistic country.

*Facepalm*
Yeah, forgot Buddhism=no god.

Quote from: "Reginus"

Quote from: "Arctonyx"I thought Vietnam mostly followed Buddhism? The last figures I saw, something like 80% of all Vietnamese said they were Buddhist, so not exactly an atheistic country.

*Facepalm*
Yeah, forgot Buddhism=no god.

Buddhism however is still theism, so yeah, facepalm indeed.

Quote from: "Ultima22689"

Quote from: "Reginus"

Quote from: "Arctonyx"I thought Vietnam mostly followed Buddhism? The last figures I saw, something like 80% of all Vietnamese said they were Buddhist, so not exactly an atheistic country.

*Facepalm*
Yeah, forgot Buddhism=no god.

Buddhism however is still theism, so yeah, facepalm indeed.

Well....to be theists they'd have to believe in god.

They are definitely not secular.

I don't think an atheist country would work for the same reason a theist country wouldn't work....you can't limit freedom like that and expect everyone to be happy.

Quote from: "Whitney"I don't think an atheist country would work for the same reason a theist country wouldn't work....you can't limit freedom like that and expect everyone to be happy.

mmm, indeed, good point, it's bound to just cause more pain thanks to oppression of freedom.

An all atheist nation would be a nation with no need for a god. This, quite frankly, is pretty damn near impossible, as it would have to be a country where everyone's needs are fulfilled. People usually believe in god because they may be in deep poverty, or in a bad way. For an all atheist country there must be no crime, all jobs must be good for them. In short, there must not be a single negative thought.

However, it is a rather interesting "What if?" situation, and possibly an entertaining one, too. I still think it is possible, albeit kinda evil-ish. I mean, we do have endorphins we could inject....

You guys should check out the book, "Society without God (http://www.amazon.com/Society-without-God-Religious-Contentment/dp/0814797148)" by Phil Zuckerman (http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/).



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http://www.publishersweekly.com/article ... ryid=47142 (http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6585442.html?industryid=47142)

QuoteSociologist Zuckerman spent a year in Scandinavia seeking to understand how Denmark and Sweden became “probably the least religious countries in the world, and possibly in the history of the world.” While many people, especially Christian conservatives, argue that godless societies devolve into lawlessness and immorality, Denmark and Sweden enjoy strong economies, low crime rates, high standards of living and social equality. Zuckerman interviewed 150 Danes and Swedes, and extended transcripts from some of those interviews provide the book's most interesting and revealing moments.

Here's a cool interview with him (in two parts):

[youtube:2z5vyyei]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn1il00qIzI[/youtube:2z5vyyei].................[youtube:2z5vyyei]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eEojwlG4cU[/youtube:2z5vyyei]

I would be curious as to how an atheist nation was defined. Would the state endorse atheism? Would theists be expelled?

I think a country where they did not give any state money to religious based organisations or programs, and where proselytizing (even to one's children) was banned, the country would become atheist in a hurry, and theism would be maintained at exceptionally low levels.

Quote from: "SSY"I would be curious as to how an atheist nation was defined. Would the state endorse atheism? Would theists be expelled?

I think a country where they did not give any state money to religious based organizations or programs, and where proselytizing (even to one's children) was banned, the country would become atheist in a hurry, and theism would be maintained at exceptionally low levels.

^This, II bet a country like that could work out.

Quote from: "SSY"and where proselytizing (even to one's children) was banned, the country would become atheist in a hurry

George Orwell's novel 1984 sprang to mind. Doublethink:

Quote from: "George Orwell"The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them....To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies â€" all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth.

I like the freedom of speech idea, even when some people freely state things I disagree with.

=)

Quote from: "SSY"I would be curious as to how an atheist nation was defined. Would the state endorse atheism? Would theists be expelled?

I think a country where they did not give any state money to religious based organisations or programs, and where proselytizing (even to one's children) was banned, the country would become atheist in a hurry, and theism would be maintained at exceptionally low levels.

Everytime you read this post, a FOX news reporter commits suicide.

Quote from: "AlP"=)

I don't like freedom of speech if it means the young and vulnerable have their minds corrupted by those who are meant to be ensuring their safe and healthy development.

Quote from: "SSY"

Quote from: "AlP"=)

I don't like freedom of speech if it means the young and vulnerable have their minds corrupted by those who are meant to be ensuring their safe and healthy development.

Indeed, making sure our kids don't suffer from brainwashing that invokes racism and plenty of other negative things is hardly taking away free speech, they can still found a church, take their kids there, they just won't get any support and if anyone does preach in public or anything of the sort then they can just be heavily fined. Double it every time. There will be a very minor religious population, sure however I would imagine churches wouldn't last long. They make money by indoctrinating more people, if that's illegal they can't make much money or something like that.

Quote from: "SSY"

Quote from: "AlP"=)

I don't like freedom of speech if it means the young and vulnerable have their minds corrupted by those who are meant to be ensuring their safe and healthy development.

Yes freedom of speech does have its issues.

[sarcasm]Here's another idea for an atheist nation that I think is actually more humane than preventing religious parents from sharing there beliefs with their children. Don't let them have children. It could work like the People's Republic of China's family planning policy of aborting if parents go beyond their 1 child quota. Except religious people would have a 0 child quota. Get it? Besides, would you really trust a religious parent not to tell their child about religion in secret? Utopia here we come![/sarcasm]

Anyway seriously... How do you enforce an atheist nation without resorting to persecution? It seems the only humane way for an atheist nation to come about is if people individually choose atheist belief themselves. We already have a name for that: secular nation. The moment you start enforcing a particular belief or non-belief, even if yours is right, the enforcement itself becomes far worse than the thing it is trying to prevent. I would resist an atheist nation.

You fail to notice the distinction, people would be free to believe what they want, but they would not be allowed to push their views on others, simple. I would much prefer if everyone would suddenly see the light of reason and throw off the shackles of their faith, but unfortunately, the church is tenacious and people can be gullible when they want to be deceived.

Bah.

At what point would it be considered proselytizing and not just talking?

The benefits of Atheism only occur when that Atheism is a choice (known as"organic atheism") and not from government coercion Source (http://atheism.about.com/b/2005/06/21/patterns-of-atheism-around-the-world.htm)

Now if only Socialists would realize that the same applies to cooperation...

Where are you in this nation?
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Quote from: "Heretical Rants"Bah.

At what point would it be considered proselytizing and not just talking?

Basic sketchy outlines would include

Not preaching about your god unless asked specifically to do so.
No threats, direct or indirect about hell, or worldly malaise.
Children below 16 would be unable to consent to religious indoctrination ( ie, no bringing kids to church )

Though obviously this is a nebulous area, just as the laws regarding "inciting racial hatred" are also open to interpretation by the judge, there are always going to be people pushing the boundary, the law is meant to get rid of the worst offenses, the prevailing climate I imagine should take care of the rest.

I should be allowed to threaten people with Hell if I want to do so.

Quote from: "Heretical Rants"I should be allowed to threaten people with Hell if I want to do so.

Only in a crippled giant that is choking itself to death with it's own ignorance, self righteousness, selfishness and insistence to be backwards and anti-intellectual.

Quote from: "venomfangx"Where are you in this nation?
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 :brick:

This thread needs a history lesson. The Communist bloc was completely atheist, to the point some countries even had a policy of shutting down churches.

yeah, but their problem wasn't the atheism, it was the lack of freedom...

Quote from: "Arctonyx"An atheist country wouldn't end well. Secular is the way to go.

Well, ours was. And look how we turned out.
*sigh*

Quote from: "templeboy"yeah, but their problem wasn't the atheism, it was the lack of freedom...

Who said anything about a problem? This thread needs to acknowledge that there have been many officially atheist countries.

Quote from: "Loffler"

Quote from: "templeboy"yeah, but their problem wasn't the atheism, it was the lack of freedom...

Who said anything about a problem? This thread needs to acknowledge that there have been many officially atheist countries.

Please name them for me, I would love to read and learn about them.

Quote from: "Ultima22689"

Quote from: "Loffler"

Quote from: "templeboy"yeah, but their problem wasn't the atheism, it was the lack of freedom...

Who said anything about a problem? This thread needs to acknowledge that there have been many officially atheist countries.

Please name them for me, I would love to read and learn about them.

Cuba, China, the USSR, Mongolia, Cambodia, North Korea, in fact all 22 countries behind the Iron Curtain. Albania even took it so far as to ban all religion.

Read all about state atheism here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism)

Atheism was part of communist doctrine. Non-communist atheism is sometimes referred to as "organic atheism."

An atheist nation state might, officially, declare that all human beings have the right to believe, but that the government officially recognizes all religion's as incorrect. Thus, no religious teaching endorsed by ANY public institution.

I would like to think, however, that religious art would be accepted, in the mythological spirit, if it is of high caliber. Religious art is rife with good themes. And it beats the shit out of our ugly modern art sculptures.